Real Guns

[Solid Lifters]

👍

Well....... I'm on the online ordering page right now. Bushmaster MOE .308

I'm doing the virtual walking back 'n' forth thing right now, but I think I'm going to pull the trigger(no pun intended).

Edit: OK, I did some more thinking, and I just said 🤬 it, I ordered it.

What I'm going to be using this rifle for, Bushmaster should be fine. However, I did strongly consider the standard .223 caliber. In the end, I really felt that as soon as I get .223, I'd end up wanting the .308. Worst case scenario, if I change my mind about the gun, or the caliber, I'd take very little loss(if any) selling it off, considering how much I'm getting the gun for.

Congrats!

I just might join you!
But, I still have to 'thin the heard' a bit. I got too many as it is! No new guns, no new guitars, and no new cars!

 

[a6m5]

Congrats!

I just might join you!
But, I still have to 'thin the heard' a bit. I got too many as it is! No new guns, no new guitars, and no new cars!

Thank you Solid! 👍

My coworker/friend recently sold off a lot of guns, and was in process of getting rid of everything except for those that he's keeping for the rest of his life. He took off on a roadtrip with his buddies today, visit the friend's property, shoot some guns, which includes his never-been-fired Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle.

So much for thinning the herd, as he's also there to buy the guy's excess inventory. I hope you are better at thinning the herd than that guy.

His plan(<<<grain of salt) is to resell all the guns. When he's back next week, he might have something he wants to sell me. For those of us he's close to, he'll sell them to us at cost. Same guy who gave me the Arisaka rifle for free! We'll see what he brings back.

 

[Michael88]

Bushmaster MOE .308

I'm doing the virtual walking back 'n' forth thing right now, but I think I'm going to pull the trigger(no pun intended).

Edit: OK, I did some more thinking, and I just said 🤬 it, I ordered it.

Congratulations!! And you wont regret your caliber choice, .308 is a mighty fine multi-purpose round. 👍👍

Whats the approx delivery time?

 

[a6m5]

Congratulations!! And you wont regret your caliber choice, .308 is a mighty fine multi-purpose round. 👍👍

Whats the approx delivery time?

Thanks Michael. I was all over the place with my rifle selection, and took probably something like a year, but you were very patient with me. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

As far as the ETA go, I paid with something called the eCheck? This payment method enabled me to get the cash price discount, but the website also said that it will take up to a week for the payment to clear. On top of this, it's coming from the East Coast to the West, which is generally about a week. Once it arrives to the local pawn shop who does firearm transfer for $10(+ another $10 for background check), I do plan to pick it up promptly.

So as it stands, it should be just over couple of weeks.

 

[Crash]

Congrats on the rifle purchase, a6!

I'll be going to the gun range with a few friends shortly. I haven't been in many months and I'm excited to go shoot again.

 

[a6m5]

Thanks bud, I hope you have a great time at the range!

I picked up some ammo at Walmart this morning. They still have plenty of Federal .45ACP - 100 rounds for $29.99. Also got a box of 12-gauge slug - 15 for I think around $12. Finally, getting little ahead of myself, but got Remington Core-Lokt .308 - 20 for $19?

If any of you have a recommendation on rifle ammo, I'd like to hear it. Range, power, etc. Also which ammunition's cheap for practice. So far, Federals are about $17 for box of 20, and they are the cheapest. Unfortunately for me, they are out of stock in 308.

 

[Eric.]

I think the $1/rd mark is where it stops being fun to shoot...Especially out of an AR that isn't all about slow precise shots.

 

[a6m5]

I think the $1/rd mark is where it stops being fun to shoot...Especially out of an AR that isn't all about slow precise shots.

In selecting the .308 over .223, cost was a concern. .223, I could have definitely had more fun. .308 to me is just badass, while still being practical. I may not be able to shoot a bunch, but there is definitely something to more range & more power, even if I'm counting exactly how many rounds I've fired.

As for accuracy, from what I understand, .223 AR's are very accurate for what they are. After shooting rifles at the 200 meter range one time, I got the impression that any rifle accurate at 200+ meter has more performance than my limited skill would require.

We've discussed this before, but here's the maximum effective range info from Wikipedia again:

7.62x39mm(AK Round) - 350 m
5.56x45mm(.223) - 600 m
7.62x51mm(.308 Winchester) - 800 m

 

[Michael88]

Thanks Michael. I was all over the place with my rifle selection, and took probably something like a year, but you were very patient with me. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

Ok, rifle: check. Next project: scope. Time frame for planning phase.....hmmm....2 years, maybe more?
Now I'm making fun of you, sorry!
I'm always happy to help a fellow gun enthusiast, we're an endangered species so we need to help each other and stick together! (And I just simply love rambling about guns....)

So as it stands, it should be just over couple of weeks.

Lets share the pain! I'm too waiting for a rifle, ah, counting the hours is so frustrating!

If any of you have a recommendation on rifle ammo, I'd like to hear it.

Whats the twist rate of your Bushmaster .308?
Remington 168 grain Sierra Matchking HP shoots very well out of ALL my .308 rifles, its kind of inexpensive for a match-round. A lot of people use it in their precision rifles and its kind of hot.

Thats the precision I get with the mentioned round, 10 fast shots without caring about barrel heat and with a low power scope (7x) at 110yds. The two hits outside the group were the first shots that day, I should have done a better job at getting out ALL the oil before shooting.

Its not a single hole because I'm not one of those benchrest shooters but this kind of accuracy out of an off the shelf gun with commercial ammo is good enough for me.

Same rifle, same shooting procedure, different ammo, 5 rounds. Used some friends Czech Sellier & Bellot 146 grain .308's, very inexpensive bulk ammo that comes in 50 round boxes. Not really match stuff but good clean general purpose ammo. Its pretty much a duplicate of the standard 7.62x51 military load, 146 @ 2850 fps.

 

[a6m5]

Unlike you, I'm not getting to shoot is real soon, so I'm actually perfectly at peace with the wait.

As far as the optics go(good one! lol), what I want is a EOTech, but I'm pretty sure I'm getting a low power scope for it. Sort of like what we talked about, when we were discussing scout/SHTF rifle.

I like the flip-up sights this Bushmaster comes equipped with. They look like they'll make excellent back-up sights. 👍

 

[Zenith]

Ammo recommendations? Unless you plan to reload, a truckload of Wolf or some other Russian el-cheapo steel cased. Cheap ammo is awesome.

I'd handle an EOTech and maybe even practice mount it on your gun before you buy. I was completely sold on an EOTech XPS2 for my AR15 until I tried the Aimpoint Micro on my friend's .45-70. The micro was bigger than I thought it would be, the next time I saw an EOTech I realized how big they are.

Bulk might be less of an issue on a .308, in which case I'd also consider looking into some magnified stuff, and no, not the EOTech HWS.

Edit: here's an article on the MBUIS you're going to get. You might like it.

http://kitup.military.com/2012/07/back-up-iron-sight-drop-test.html

 

[Eric.]

I was talking to a friend who reloads, he'll only reload once, then get new casings or buy cartridges and reload those. Is that typical, or being a little more cautious than necessary?

I'm not sure if there'd be any cost savings to me shooting the 9x18M, but I know a few people with reloading equipment that I might be able to use if it would be worth it.

 

[Zenith]

I was talking to a friend who reloads, he'll only reload once, then get new casings or buy cartridges and reload those. Is that typical, or being a little more cautious than necessary?

I'm not sure if there'd be any cost savings to me shooting the 9x18M, but I know a few people with reloading equipment that I might be able to use if it would be worth it.

One reload per brass? Most definitely! 5 reloads is considered conservative. People will reload the same brass dozens of times. It depends on the condition of the brass.

I have no clue on 9x18M. I doubt there's much savings in that. It's not a popular round in the US and the milsurp is already cheap as... Something that's cheap.

 

[a6m5]

Yeah, my inner Call-of-Duty(games) calls for red-dot holo sights, but I think low power scope could work out good on this rifle.

I have a question Z-Man: Magazines. Bushmaster mags retails $60, but it looks identical from what I can see to the DPMS magazines. Do you think they might be interchangeable? I think I read somewhere that Magpul PMag's will work, and I think they go for around $20.

Michael - I don't know about the twist rate, but I found this on the sister Bushmaster rifle:

Barrel Length: 16" [40.640 cm]
Rifling: 1 turn in 10" [25.4 cm]
R.H. Twist / 6 grooves & lands

Edit:

Edit: here's an article on the MBUIS you're going to get. You might like it.

http://kitup.military.com/2012/07/back-up-iron-sight-drop-test.html

Nice! Been curious about it. 👍

Edit 2: Very cool results on the Magpul sights, but this Diamondhead looks intriguing to me. Diamond shape peep hole might assist with the accuracy?

 

[Brett]

Rifling: One turn in 10" is the twist rate.

Congratulations on the buying the rifle. Now go buy bulk ammunition online instead of trying to wait on Walmart restocking/service.

 

[Zenith]

Yeah, my inner Call-of-Duty(games) calls for red-dot holo sights, but I think low power scope could work out good on this rifle.

I have a question Z-Man: Magazines. Bushmaster mags retails $60, but it looks identical from what I can see to the DPMS magazines. Do you think they might be interchangeable? I think I read somewhere that Magpul PMag's will work, and I think they go for around $20.

Michael - I don't know about the twist rate, but I found this on the sister Bushmaster rifle:

Barrel Length: 16" [40.640 cm]
Rifling: 1 turn in 10" [25.4 cm]
R.H. Twist / 6 grooves & lands

Unlike AR15's the .308's don't have a "standard" to adhere to, thus some magazines won't work in some guns. Yours will work with PMAGs and that's all you need to know. $60 per mag is utter insanity. Grab a half dozen PMAG's and you're set.

Your twist rate is 1:10. That is the bullet will spin once every 10 inches it travels due to to rifling (cuts) in the bore. Heavier ammo tends to like higher twist rates.

 

[a6m5]

You guys are heaven sent, man. Thank you. 👍 And is 1-10 high or low?

Congratulations on the buying the rifle. Now go buy bulk ammunition online instead of trying to wait on Walmart restocking/service.

I forgot all about it, but I might have a local source on this. My coworker/friend I mentioned just got 500 .308 discounted from this guy who just opened I don't know what. Gun-ammo shop thing. I'll find out how much he paid, though his .45ACP price wasn't that great(why I bought 200 more from Walmart today).

I was planning on looking into bulk anyway, but do you think I can save going that route?

 

[Eric.]

I was amazed that I don't save anything at all buying bulk .22LR

 

[Michael88]

With a 1 in 10 your rifle should do well with 168, 175 and 180 grainers, I'm not too sure about the 146 and 154 grain bullets, they usually like a 1 in 12.
But as always - try out as many different brands and bullet weights as possible and find out what your rifle likes best.

I'm kind of surprised its not a 1:12, 1:10 is actually a twist rate that can be found in .308 long range rifles, 1:12 is more the military do-it-all twist.-

 

[a6m5]

I was amazed that I don't save anything at all buying bulk .22LR

Remington that we buy anywhere(I hear they aren't great, but) is 525 for twenty bucks, give or take. Isn't that pretty much a bulk buy?

With a 1 in 10 your rifle should do well with 168, 175 and 180 grainers, I'm not too sure about the 146 and 154 grain bullets, they usually like a 1 in 12.
But as always - try out as many different brands and bullet weights as possible and find out what your rifle likes best.

I'm kind of surprised its not a 1:12, 1:10 is actually a twist rate that can be found in .308 long range rifles, 1:12 is more the military do-it-all twist.-

I could be wrong. Bushmaster website doesn't get into twist rate on the one I bought, but on the other .308 rifle, it says 1:10, and they are both described as 'heavy profile', so I figured they are probably the same. They are all Greek to me!

My 'bing' search netted couple of search results that seem to confirm 1:10 twist.

 

[Zenith]

Profile refers to the size and shape of the barrel. Basically how much meat is on it. It has nothing to do with twist rate. It's safe to assume that your rifle will have the same 1:10 twist rate. They have the same barrel. Anything between 1:10 and 1:12 should suit you fine.

 

[a6m5]

Profile refers to the size and shape of the barrel. Basically how much meat is on it. It has nothing to do with twist rate. It's safe to assume that your rifle will have the same 1:10 twist rate. They have the same barrel. Anything between 1:10 and 1:12 should suit you fine.

Yeah, I figured it was strictly referring to the shape & size. I just meant that they are the only limited description I can find on the Bushmaster page.

 

[Eric.]

Remington that we buy anywhere(I hear they aren't great, but) is 525 for twenty bucks, give or take. Isn't that pretty much a bulk buy?

I suppose, but I just expected to find better rates buying maybe a couple thousand rounds online over the walmart price. I got 525 Federals for $19.xx at Walmart, and that's the same per round as anything else I can find online, and cheaper than the majority.

 

[cggorman]

Remington that we buy anywhere(I hear they aren't great, but) is 525 for twenty bucks, give or take. Isn't that pretty much a bulk buy?

I could be wrong. Bushmaster website doesn't get into twist rate on the one I bought, but on the other .308 rifle, it says 1:10, and they are both described as 'heavy profile', so I figured they are probably the same. They are all Greek to me!

My 'bing' search netted couple of search results that seem to confirm 1:10 twist.

My 550-A1 shoots bulk ammo just as well as it shoots CCI, my 550 loves the bulk remington boxes. But every gun is different.

 

[a6m5]

I suppose, but I just expected to find better rates buying maybe a couple thousand rounds online over the walmart price. I got 525 Federals for $19.xx at Walmart, and that's the same per round as anything else I can find online, and cheaper than the majority.

I tend to mention Walmart in any sentence that contain the word 'ammo'. This is because I've shopped around, locally & online.

Bare in mind, this is only in regards to the caliber I've shopped(.45ACP, 9mm, maybe 12-gauge): Locally, most shops don't even come close to Walmart ammo prices(they are also not open 24hrs), and even when they do, their "sale" prices tend to only match Walmart's everyday price.

Online, the selection is a huge advantage, but prices are either still higher than the Walmart prices, or that they are just a little bit lower, this is before shipping, and.......................... ammunition weighs a lot.

Because only two rifles that I own a either .22LR, or WWII non-working, this is the first time I'm shopping proper rifle round. Z-Man recommended Russian ammo, I'm gonna definitely look at those. Only thing is, when I looked today, I didn't see Tula or Wolf ammo in .308 at Walmart. Oh, well. I got plenty of time to research before I go shoot the new rifle anyway.

My 550-A1 shoots bulk ammo just as well as it shoots CCI, my 550 loves the bulk remington boxes. But every gun is different.

I don't know much about the .22s, because the only .22 I've ever owned(my first gun) was crap. I've read & heard people say that CCI brand is more reliable? Also that high velocity ammo are more reliable.

 

[Michael88]

Z-Man recommended Russian ammo, I'm gonna definitely look at those. Only thing is, when I looked today, I didn't see Tula or Wolf ammo in .308 at Walmart. .

Oh please don't feed a quality match-accuracy-capeable firearm with steel cased dirty el cheapo crap! Its like buying an expensive racing car and then you slap on the absolute cheapest made in china tires you can find. 👎

Your gun, but I'd never make my guns eat cheap dirty ammo, they deserve better.

 

[a6m5]

With firearms, along with engineering & science, I noticed that a lot of philosophy & interpretation come into play. It can get somewhat confusing at times.

At whatever price I'll find for the caliber, obviously, you are not going to catch me rapid firing this thing at pop-cans any time soon, not at close to a dollar per round(lol). One I looked today was the cheapest line Federal makes. I couldn't find one in stock, but I think it was this.

I know Z-Man wouldn't worry about it, but what do you think about that one?

 

[Zenith]

I would definitely slap cheap tires on a sports car if I was going to shred them with practice or drifting around a parking lot.

Quality ammo is a must if you're doing serious precision shooting, but cheap steel cased is fine for most anything else. Shooting tin cans at 50 yards? Steel cased is good. Sighting in? Steel cased. Practice controlling recoil? Steel cased. There are tons of places where there isn't much of a benefit to using more expensive stuff.

Steel cased ammo will dirty your gun up more, but won't cause any extra permanent damage. Most people clean their guns far more than is truly necessary though, so it isn't much of an issue. You could run through a few thousand rounds of steel cased without seeing a malfunction, depending on the rifle.

If you feel like the rifle deserves it, you can run quality brass out of your gun for its entire life. There's nothing wrong with that. Besides, we're all guilty of babying our guns. The damn things are expensive. Just know that cheap steel cased isn't going to hurt anyone.

Also, when you get the rifle, be sure to run about 100 rounds of quality ammunition that the gun is likely to be fed. If it starts malfunctioning, something might be wrong. You need to make sure it's free of defects or major issues as soon as you can.

 

[a6m5]

On the ammo, I'm going to have to weigh all options. If the savings from the Russian ammo were significant enough, I may still go that route. With the .45, I said 'why not', because I cleaned that thing every time I shot it. And before Federal pretty much price-matched it, it was like $5 cheaper per-box. Before I actually bought my first box of Tulammo, Federal came out with their Value Pack. They read my mind. The Tulammo I had fired in the 1911 before, they were freebies that came with the gun.

Excellent tip on testing out the gun. I'll make sure to do that. 👍

 

[cphbullet]

Have many people fired a bolt action? Ive read through quite a few posts and haven't seen one mentioned, i fired one ages ago, i remember it having a really strong kick but i have no idea of the name, i've fired an M9 before as well.