Real Guns

[sumbrownkid]

Some special forces still use the 1911.

Well they can get away with a few exceptions here and there.

But it seems the NATO round is the best answer. I searched Google and all I keep getting is that it was cheaper, that the US government is cheap, and that the m1911 was an old design.

 

[VspecZR1GT2RS89]

All I need is a pirate costume. I have an inflatable boat that I can just paint brown, plus I had made two small cannons when I was in high school.

And don't forget to call yourself Captain Jack Sparrow also. Searching for Treasure Island.

Well they can get away with a few exceptions here and there.

But it seems the NATO round is the best answer. I searched Google and all I keep getting is that it was cheaper, that the US government is cheap, and that the m1911 was an old design.

Yep, the M1911 is over a century old. You can call it the VW Beetle and Porsche 911 of the handgun world. Since 1911, hence the name, this .45 cal handgun has seen so many wars and tactical situations from World War 1, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War and the Gulf War.

Even though it's a old design, but there's newer and modern models of the 45 handgun family and it is still a reliable and now, even lighter that the original M1911.

And that Wilson 45 is nice! And for 3k for that gun, it has to be a high end 45ACP.

Oh yeah, speaking about 45s, has anyone seen a AMT Silverballer 45 handgun? Are they rare and/or expensive?

 

[a6m5]

I've never even heard of AMT. They aren't the best selling guns for sure.

I'm surprised more military doesn't equip Glocks. It's simple, durable, and cheaper than Sigs & Berettas. If I was a soldier, if it can only be a 9mm, I'd take a Glock 17 or 19 for sure.

Between a Glock 9mm & 1911, I'm not so sure. If I pull a trigger on Glock 9, I know that it's going to fire a bullet. My 1911 hasn't been perfect, and neither was my buddy's Glock 21 .45ACP.

Edit:

I got a kick out of this one.



👍

 

[Zenith]

AMT Silverballer = AMT Hardballer. Silverballers are from Hitman. It was the first 1911 made entirely from stainless steel.

Hey guys, quick question, why did the US military ditch the M1911 for the Beretta as the standard hand gun?

Is it just because it packs more rounds?

Heh, I just wrote a report on the JSSAP and the rumors of foul play.

Here are the reasons.

• Magazine Capacity
• 9mm was the new NATO standard
• Reliability
• Cost of the gun, parts, and ammo
• Weight
• Service Life
• 9mm recoil is easier for small shooters

The Beretta and most of the other entries to the competition outperformed the 1911. It's a lovely design, also a 100 year old one.

Some special forces still use the 1911.

This is true-ish. The M-45 MEUSOC is a custom 1911 that was issued to SOF, but just because it was issued doesn't mean it is used. They could be gathering dust in an armory somewhere like most P90's and MP7's. I would guess that some SF guys walk around with 1911's on their hips, but there's no way to know for sure.

 

[Minty]

So my parents wanted to do something nice for Christmas:

Marlin XT-22
And the scope is a Pursuit 4x32.

Also got me a cleaning kit and a nice case for it. And 500 .22

It was $199 during some Black Friday deal, apparently. I'd say it's pretty good for a first gun.

 

[a6m5]

That is a sweet looking rifle. Congratulations! 👍

I'd like to own a bolt-action .22 someday. You gotta scope, cleaning kit, brick of ammo & everything. Your parents rock!

My advice: Keep it clean, and absolutely SAFETY FIRST. Always be aware of the trigger, and where you point the gun.

 

[Michael88]

I like the blonde wood, nice rifle, Marlin is quality!

If you need help zeroing in the scope, just ask us.

 

[David]

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[a6m5]

.22LR bolt-action gotta be the best outdoor survival rifle. That's some kinda awesome!

I saw this post on my local online firearm classifieds:

rumor has it as such........
AR's......will be reg., and info sent in with income tax ..... no word on SKS or AK
all 10 rnd mags + will be banned, and if caught == heavy fines

just passing along what i heard from my gun guru link

I hate to be rude, but doesn't this sound idiotic? If you are going to regulate AR, how could you possibly not regulate any other semi-automatic rifle that could potentially accept high capacity magazines? Maybe even the hunting semi-autos. That's like you have to register your Ford Fusion, but not if you have a Camry or Accord?

Magazine thing is what I'm expecting. I guess if it's a outright ban, it will be harder to buy or sell those mags, even used. Personally, I think they would be in violation of the Second Amendment, but people have accepted it in the form of the Assault Weapons Ban in 1994, so I don't see Obama having much trouble pushing that one through.

Magazine ban might be bad news for people hoarding PMAGs. With a ban, they won't be able to resell them without risk of getting penalized by the Government. They might even put you in jail, or take all your firearms away. Who knows?

 

[David]

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[Crash]

I hate to be rude, but doesn't this sound idiotic? If you are going to regulate AR, how could you possibly not regulate any other semi-automatic rifle that could potentially accept high capacity magazines? Maybe even the hunting semi-autos. That's like you have to register your Ford Fusion, but not if you have a Camry or Accord?

Magazine thing is what I'm expecting. I guess if it's a outright ban, it will be harder to buy or sell those mags, even used. Personally, I think they would be in violation of the Second Amendment, but people have accepted it in the form of the Assault Weapons Ban in 1994, so I don't see Obama having much trouble pushing that one through.

Magazine ban might be bad news for people hoarding PMAGs. With a ban, they won't be able to resell them without risk of getting penalized by the Government. They might even put you in jail, or take all your firearms away. Who knows?

If they follow the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, then there would be a list of "assault weapons" features, and if a gun has at least x amount (2, 3 or whatever) of those features, then it's banned. This will be on top of a 10 round magazine. If I remember correctly, this also only affected center-fire firearms.

The previous AWB also didn't actually completely ban possession or sale of banned features. It only banned manufacturing for civilian market and new sales from factory. People were still free to buy and sell privately high capacity magazine and assault weapons already in circulation.

Also, I don't think magazines are serialized or registered anywhere anyways, so it would be impossible for the government to know whether someone should or shouldn't have owned a high capacity magazine?

 

[a6m5]

On the magazines, with a outright ban, you will not be able to use the high-cap magazines anymore. People who goes to the range to shoot can't use them anymore. Even if you shoot in the woods(or desert for Solid & Z-Man lol), you could still get reported by some commie, or get caught by the authorities. I believe what I said about the hoarders is true. Trying to sell a couple of mags to a friend is one thing, but when you are trying to move large quantities of contraband, it's gonna take some guts!

The ban, it will make it much harder for psychos to obtain a high-cap mag, but IMO, ten still gives enough capacity to take out a crowd of defenseless people. If they are serious about it, maybe 6 round capacity, tops?

All gun control is a violation of the second amendment. Its a right explicitly reserved for the people yet state and fed govt tell us what we can and cannot have. A rifle is a rifle is a rifle and it shouldnt be any politicians goddamn business what I have in my house.

I think the game they've been playing(for a long time now) is to draw the gun lobby into series of compromises, keep chipping away at people's rights, then one day, owning firearms becomes such hassle, people will give up the arms willingly.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

The ban, it will make it much harder for psychos to obtain a high-cap mag, but IMO, ten still gives enough capacity to take out a crowd of defenseless people. If they are serious about it, maybe 6 round capacity, tops?

Another unintended consequence, as seen in the last ban, will be people buying larger caliber weapons. When your garden variety 15rd 9mm got banned and only 10rd mags were available; people bought .45's instead of 9mm.

In 1994, the AR-10 wasn't that popular. If a capacity ban goes thru, you'll see more .308, 6.8spc, and .300 rifles sold. The .223 isn't a very good bullet for anything other than varmints. It doesn't take long to find stories of those on the battle field zipping the bad guys with 5.56 and not killing them. The difference between a .223 and .308 is a world of difference and I'd much rather take my chances with the former. A .308 is large enough to kill any animal in North America, even if it's wearing body armor. Truly violent round.

Besides buying larger caliber weapons, smaller & more easily concealable weapons emerged on the market. While there has been mouse guns since the 50's, there's now mouse-sized guns packing .40S&W. Must be a bastard to shoot...but if you're within arm's length of the bad guy, he/she is going to be in a world of ****.

With the increase of CCW popularity, these smaller guns are not going away and neither are the gun shops...the well run shops at least.

Personally, I think people will forget in a month once the tax rates on 100% of the working class go up. That will take center stage in the political arena as everyone will be hurting from that. Getting raked over the coals every paycheck (bi-monthly?) will shorten the memory of Sandy Hook.

 

[a6m5]

Point taken on caliber sizes. I was thinking about the 9mm versus .45ACP, but with the expected upcoming ban, it indeed might come into play with the rifles as well.

This makes me bit more glad about the AR-10, but so many people own ARs in general, I wonder how much Obama could do to handicap those rifles. My coworker's been telling me that media keep bringing up Australia gun control. I hope we never see anything like that here.

 

[Joel]

I hate to be rude, but doesn't this sound idiotic? If you are going to regulate AR, how could you possibly not regulate any other semi-automatic rifle that could potentially accept high capacity magazines? Maybe even the hunting semi-autos. That's like you have to register your Ford Fusion, but not if you have a Camry or Accord?

Governments, gun control, and logic don't always go together. Often the laws are made by people who don't know the first thing about guns. Canada's are hilarious.

Any semi auto "centre fire" rifle (firing pin strikes center of the cartridge) is limited to 5 round mags. If the action is manual, there's no limit. So I could legally have a 5 round mag in a semi auto, but I could theoretically have a bolt action .223 or .308 with a 50 round mag if I wanted to.

There's more, AK-47's and all variants are banned. I can buy a nearly identical looking Czech made VZ-58S, or an SKS, but the AK22 (.22LR AK look alike) is prohibited because it's an AK. AR-15's are legal. I can legally buy semi auto P90 variants. I can buy an AR-10, FN SCAR (both .223 and .308) look alikes, but not a semi auto .22LR that looks like an AK but shares no common parts. Keep in mind the mags in these things are all pinned at 5 rounds.

That bit about semi auto centre fire mags at 5 rounds doesn't apply to rim fire (firing pin strikes outside edge/rim of cartridge) rounds, like .22LR. I can legally buy a semi auto .22LR with an 100 round drum mag. There is absolutely no limit, if I could find one, I could legally use a 500 round .22LR mag. But an .223 AR-15 has to be capped at 5. Shotguns? I can have 2 in the tube, one in the chamber whether it's pump or semi auto. So if I'm in a duck blind with 3 shotgun shells in the tube, and one chambered, I'm breaking the law. Firing .22LR from a 100 round mag? Totally legal, eh?

I'm not going any further. The sheer idiocy of Canada's gun laws can make your head explode. Americans, fight the good fight so this doesn't happen to you.

 

[David]

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[a6m5]

I'm not going any further. The sheer idiocy of Canada's gun laws can make your head explode. Americans, fight the good fight so this doesn't happen to you.

Damn, rant warranted.

When I saw this crazy post on my local gun ad classifieds, I declared it nutty for singling out the ARs, but Canada actually executed such bill?

In this current rumor, it's the AR, but with Canada, it's the AK. As I asked earlier, how is this not like DMV allowing Fusions, but bans Camrys or Accords?

I'm convinced that, to Obama & other anti-gun lobby, for one, they are ignorant, just like the Government was with the War on Drugs. Oh, don't worry about the actual problem. We will pour billions of dollars & many lives into a band-aid that will cover up the problem momentarily.

Secondly, this is just job security to them. It fools the gullible public into believing that they are on top of this thing. During the process, they will put these shootings on NRA and other politicians that actually play by the constitution, like gun violence is the sole problem with this nation, and gun lobby is somehow at fault.

Notice I stopped referring to Obama as the "President Obama", maybe couple of days ago. That man is incompetent. I thought Bush was an idiot, but Obama hasn't been much better than Bush's second term. 👎

 

[Joel]

AR-15's were banned for a little while, but they were legalized again with the sports shooting argument. AK's are the bad guys guns, and the good guys use AR's. Put a sight and a foregrip on an AR, and the soccer mom sees it and it looks like a "target shooting" gun, do the same to an AK and soccer moms still think it's super scary.

Talk to most of these anti-gun people about the guns in question and it's readily apparent they have no idea. One friend of mine who always rips on the US thought full autos were legal. This same person also thought AK's and AR-15's fired the same round. He looked into it a bit, saw that the AK and the M14 both used a 7.62mm round, and asked me if they were the same. The people making these laws are almost entirely clueless about guns. Either that, or they're gun nuts purposely making loopholes .

 

[a6m5]

Maybe not gun nuts, because they'd love AK's, too. Maybe AR-Fanboys.

 

[sumbrownkid]

The AK is THE iconic firearm in my opinion.

And it happens to be the initials of my first and middle names!

 

[a6m5]

The AK is THE iconic firearm in my opinion.

And it happens to be the initials of my first and middle names!

Only if your last name was Fortyseven, I'd been really impressed.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Let's just say I come in 47 different flavors...Wait that does not sound right...

 

[a6m5]

Mouthwash, mouthwash, mouthwash.....

 

[sumbrownkid]

Mouthwash, mouthwash, mouthwash.....

Just give me straight alcohol in this case.

 

[Joel]

Maybe not gun nuts, because they'd love AK's, too. Maybe AR-Fanboys.

I meant more about how I can buy a P90, FN SCAR, etc etc

No, truly what it is is because we have 3 categories of guns. "Non restricted" guns require a basic gun license, and cover most of your regular hunting rifles and shotguns. There's stipulations for how long the stock is, how long the barrel is, and a few other factors that go into it. Most "normal" hunting guns are non restricted (including semi autos), but there are some civilian semi auto conversions of assault rifles that fall into this category (including that P90 variant I was talking about). Non restricteds had to be registered until recently.

Then comes the Restricted class of firearms. To get a Restricted firearms license you take another course on top of the non-restricted one. This covers most handguns, and shotguns/rifles that are shorter in length, (barrels under 47cm), and AR-15's just because (yes, an AR-15 requires extra courses, but a P90 doesn't ). All Restricted firearms are registered, and you need a permit to take it to a specific shooting range.

Then there's Prohibited class firearms. These are small pocket handguns, full autos, AK's, and various other cherry picked AR's that are only illegal just because. You can only have one of these if they're grandfathered in (from pre 1970 I believe) and they're all registered and very tightly regulated.

There are a few historical exceptions, for example, an M1 Garand should be prohibited on the grounds of an 8 round mag in a centre fire semi auto, but it's classed non-restricted due to the historical significance (again, arbitrary).

The biggest issues come with the whole non-restricted vs. restricted thing. There's a lot of guns that are classified as non-restricted but are seemingly more "dangerous" than AR-15's, and other restricted handguns. There's also a lot of guns that should be restricted or non-restricted by characteristics, but are classed as prohibited just because the government said so. All these inconsistencies are here because in the mid 90's after the Montreal Massacre, the government tightened the laws on AR's, AK's, and other similar rifles. They arbitrarily decided on around 90 rifles to be illegal just because. Since then, there hasn't been a big major shooting and guns have gone to the back burner. A lot of new rifles and SMG's have come out in last 15-20 years, and most of them can be non restricted with a 47cm barrel and semi auto conversion, while AR's require special permits and AK's are flat out illegal.

This is what they want, your government is probably going to try to class AR type weapons similar to the Restricted class here, and there'll be mountains of paperwork and inefficient bureaucracy involved.

 

[a6m5]

I've been hearing that media's been mentioning Australian gun control, but yeah, I have no doubt that Obama & Biden's looking at the Canadian gun control as well.

What a load of bull 🤬



It's like some child wrote Canadian gun control. A child who is clueless about guns, or would like to play favorites. Just. Sad. You guys need hire real adults to write the law next time. I'm certain I'm not going to like what Obama's going to come up with, but at least I'm sure it's going to make more sense.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Yes, it's odd that the focus is on Oz and Canadialand. Maybe they should take a look at the U.K and parts of Europe too?

Although, if you look at the crime statistics of Oz as a whole, it isn't as rosey as they might make it sound. Less gun crime? Yep. Skyrocketing number of assaults? Oh... yeah.

 

[Joel]

I think the thing about Canada is that the culture is probably as close to the US as you can get to draw conclusions from about what policies work and don't work. The gun culture is completely different, but Canada is probably the most similar country to look at. Large land mass, similar lifestyles, etc etc.

 

[a6m5]

A lot of criminals in some regions of the U.S. though. It's all good though, they tend to have strict gun control to keep the guns out of law abiding citizens' hands, like Chicago, Cali........

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Yes, it's odd that the focus is on Oz and Canadialand. Maybe they should take a look at the U.K and parts of Europe too?

Parts of Europe have been under dictatorships & numerous other forms of gov't all the while the US has remained a constitutional republic. Not only is the history & culture of the US different but so is the form of governance. Here, gridlock and not getting anything done, legislatively, is a good thing and what makes America different from the rest of the world. Our balance of power is not only between our legislative, executive, and judicial branches but also between the citizenry and the government. What you see happening in the middle east right now would never happen here. Why? The populace has too many guns...

And that's what the 2nd Amendment is all about; controlling our own tyrannical government. Throughout the 20th century we've witness mass murders by Stalin, Pol Pot, and Hitler. We're not talking a few dozen suburban kids, we're talking millions of people. Governments, contrary to belief, are not benevolent and are even more capable of great acts of horror than even the most twisted teenager with an AR.

Our right to fight back shall not be infringed.

However, if the people wish to disarm themselves there are avenues to do so. The Constitution can be amended, which can be a very good thing. Circumventing our Constitution, on the other hand, is a very-very bad thing. When lawmakers get to pick and choose which "rights" to respect and which laws to enforce, thereby circumventing the constitution, we have lawlessness. Do it enough and the Constitution isn't worth the paper it's written on. How to stop that? Goes back to our checks and balances with the 3 branches of government and the 300+ million guns in American households.

This country is nothing like Oz, the UK, or Europe...that's a good thing.

A lot of criminals in some regions of the U.S. though. It's all good though, they tend to have strict gun control to keep the guns out of law abiding citizens' hands, like Chicago, Cali........

Hello from Chicago!

In this hellhole we've had 525 murders and over 2,600 shootings. When you walk out of a nightclub you'll hear something like firecrackers off in the distance. Those aren't firecrackers...those are savages shooting .25's at each other (which is only slightly more dangerous than a firecracker as you can see by the shooting:murder ratio)

And yes, guns are illegal in Chicago. Not only guns but shooting ranges, ammo sales, and gun stores. But despite all the laws and grandstanding by the politicians concerning "the children" and "fighting crime" - they really don't care. Our prison system here is a revolving door, violent criminals often plea down to a slap on the wrist, and we have a very large grievance class who votes for the same criminals on every ballot they fill out.

The metrosexuals, yuppies, and old money fear guns. The only experience they have with a gun is what they see on TV (which is usually someone getting murdered 3 blocks from their house) or if they've been mugged before. That's it. Go to the ghettos, where damn near 100% of the crime originates, and you'll see a culture of savagery. A woman was recently shot and killed b/c she, being white, told a 16 y/o black male to get a job when he asked her for a cigarette. That "dis" was justification for taking someone's life. Additionally, you have black youths running around playing "polar bear hunting" whereby a group of teens single out a white person or couple and beat the hell out of them. Some have died during these beatings. Even more gruesome is the video one of the teen makes of the scene, often heard laughing, while someone is beaten unconscious. And within the past week, a 19 y/o college student was robbed. He have the 4 robbers his wallet, all his cash, and met all their requests...they still shot him. Even stole his dinner.

Savages.

These thugs get guns quite easily. Enough homes are robbed in the suburbs and in other cities to keep the black market going for a while. Even if you have a safe...you're not really safe.

The police in Chicago cannot keep the populace safe. No one in the ghetto "snitches" and our fast, easily accessible public transportation system makes it easy to flee or search for new territory to terrorize. The only person who can really keep you safe is yourself. Cops, generally, are good natured in Chicago (really). However there are plenty with an ego and there was a recent court case whereby it is now legal precedent showing that the Chicago PD has a code of silence when officers act beyond the law. In a nutshell, an off duty cop beat the hell out of a female bartender and the entire police force kept their mouth shut about it. Needless to say, the bartender won in court and got a hefty check as well.

So ya, the typical gun owner in Chicago is the last person you'd want to see with a gun. When the SHTF, you're on your own. No phone call will save you from most of the crap that happens in this city.