Reefer Madness! Saturday Classic Racing 10pm GMTOpen

[IfAndOr]

You forgot...

IfAndOr to win

• Nobody else turns up and he wins the championship by default.

Love apricot hill, great choice for the final round

Yeah I like the track also, I still remember our Z8 battle from awhile back.

235 each! So venari needs 2 dnfs DNS's lol.

Fixed

To @IfAndOr who should really have got the 3rd place rather than me as I took a very scenic 130R route in the final lap

Na, that's alright. Better than spinning out. There's a better view around the outside anyway.

Always get the first high speed turn and the chicane wrong!!

I think that trail braking helps at the first turn. The chicane is tricky to master, I find it easier in the reverse direction.

 

[reefer]

You forgot...

IfAndOr to win

• Nobody else turns up and he wins the championship by default

If, if, if If.


Here's a call out to the crew:

@Malcolm Tucker
@gerber
@VEXD
@Dave76543210
@bcd73
@JockeP22
@eran0004

Last race of the championship coming up next Saturday night at 10pm GMT. Hope you can put some time by and make the grid for one last hurrah in '15. Actually, buybon, blue and myself (and If!) need you!

 

[Venari]

My best memory will be overtaking @Venari around the outside between the hairpin and spoon.

It was a nice pass. Nothing I could do. I'm happy my tips are working for you.

Looking forward to final race. I really hate Apricot Hill. Always get the first high speed turn and the chicane wrong!!

For the first turn, try this. Stay right until you're nearing the right hand kerbs. Then look at the inside kerbs and turn-in. As soon as you can see (not pass, but see) the end of the inside kerbs, apply the brakes and wind off a little steering lock. The aim is to get the car slowed enough while it moves to the outside such that you can wind on a bit more lock and get it turned in for Turn 2.

There are plenty of ways to be consistent at turn 1, you just have to be methodical about it.

As for the chicane, yeah, I hate the bugger too. I find taking the previous bend with a late entry and apex helps, but it's the one section I have trouble being consistently fast through. I love it in reverse, no problem whatsoever, prefer the whole track in reverse, I don't mind not being able to see the track over the 'esses'!

That said, Apricot Hill forwards is one of my EZGT handicap tracks (one of @Famine 's favourites too), so I'm used to hotlapping it to achieve a certain time... although it's been a while.

Speaking of next season (as @reefer briefly was) I'll be back for sure, and I've had a brief chat with Joe and passed some ideas along. On reflection, I think the format is pretty much spot on, and I for one have enjoyed my 'mix'n'match' method of swapping cars each race. Anyone using the Esprit every race would have pounded the opposition to a pulp. There are plenty of other cars to choose from in this range, I think maybe some FF cars could play well if you artificially bumped their PP limit up to 460 or so.

Alternately, there are lots of quirky wannabe race cars at 400PP for twistier tracks - Karmann Ghia, Honda S500/600 & 1300-9, Spitfire, Sports 800, Mini Marcos, '65 Silvia. All of these are really sweet cars. They feel slow until you're racing... and then the racing gets really close.

 

[bloodyboyblue]

It us true, that pass you made on venari @Sutsagrd on the outside is one of the best passes I've seen in a while. It made me glad this series is run in 4 star rooms. Those races did indeed have a lot of passing, proof that that car roster you made @reefer turned out to be pretty much perfect.

 

[bloodyboyblue]

View attachment 491565

Incidentally, here's my milage driven on apricot hill! Note my funny looking Enzo, is this a glitch?

I always like seeing people's stats and wish we could view those from the lobbies. That's a whole lot of wins. I think I have 325 wins, probably like 290 of which are offline. And Sierra is my most driven track but I feel like it should be apricot hill also.

I've never been a fan of apricot in reverse, mostly because I love the specific rhythm it takes to go around the first 4 or 5 corners quickly, and in reverse that's missing.

 

[Venari]

I've never been a fan of apricot in reverse, mostly because I love the specific rhythm it takes to go around the first 4 or 5 corners quickly, and in reverse that's missing.

Come on then, give us a bogey time to chase, what's your rough laptime out of the gate?

Alternately, there are lots of quirky wannabe race cars at 400PP for twistier tracks.

Just realised the '98 Mini Cooper probably fits too.

 

[reefer]

1:30s for me in the 15 min I ran today. Seeing as everyone seems to live on Apricot Hill I might need to bring out a car I've run before just to be competitive...

 

[bloodyboyblue]

Speaking of next season (as @reefer briefly was) I'll be back for sure, and I've had a brief chat with Joe and passed some ideas along. On reflection, I think the format is pretty much spot on, and I for one have enjoyed my 'mix'n'match' method of swapping cars each race. Anyone using the Esprit every race would have pounded the opposition to a pulp. There are plenty of other cars to choose from in this range, I think maybe some FF cars could play well if you artificially bumped their PP limit up to 460 or so.

Alternately, there are lots of quirky wannabe race cars at 400PP for twistier tracks - Karmann Ghia, Honda S500/600 & 1300-9, Spitfire, Sports 800, Mini Marcos, '65 Silvia. All of these are really sweet cars. They feel slow until you're racing... and then the racing gets really close.[/QUOTE]

I would vote for 400pp next season as well if we're not doing 450 again. CS tires always work the best at 400, but we could give the option of SH if you're a certain number of points behind or on certain cars. We could just have a bunch of cars that don't get used enough, like all those cars venari said, and a bunch of the classic alfas, the Mitsubishi Mirage, the other two isuzus, fiat 500, maybe the beetle even though it can be too fast probably with the right tune, maybe the Mitsubishi starion for a 4WD that never gets used, and throw in the schwimmwagen! I would say cappucino also but it's probably too new. And keep the R8 Gordini since no one used it this time! The one thing I would like to see anyway is more 4WD and FF to equal out the drivetrains and tire strategies. I also for sure vote for enforcing everyone using a different car each race. 20 cars for 16 rounds is a good system. Also I think our connections seem to be stable enough and we're not running full rooms so I think we could do a custom track or two. Maybe on 3 stars for them.

 

[Venari]

Also I think our connections seem to be stable enough and we're not running full rooms so I think we could do a custom track or two.

My Lakeside track would be mental with ten cars. A run out of Lake and you've got three bites at a pass from TableTop to Motorway. Then you have to get Sandpit right so you can draught on the straight and use ALL THE BALLS for a pass into Deception. Get it wrong and people just drive around you at Flat. Very tight racing.

 

[reefer]

My best memory will be overtaking @Venari around the outside between the hairpin and spoon.

Suts, what race and lap was that? I'd like to check it out.

On reflection, I think the format is pretty much spot on, and I for one have enjoyed my 'mix'n'match' method

Do you think mix 'n' match should be mandatory if we run a spring championship? There are many things we could think about, for example: changing up the tracks / cars / pp / length or races / tyre grades / tyre wear settings and running some of our races at custom tracks etc. But before we think about that, I'd like to know if this Winter 2015 Championship was good for you or not? What worked? What didn't? If we run it again, what would you keep and what would you like to see changed? Your feedback can help in working out a format for a possible next series. So, everyone, if you have 5 minutes could you let me know either here on the thread or privately?

Not to get ahead of ourselves, we've still got the small matter of the deciding race before officially crowning our winner. There are four racers still in with a chance, five if you include If, and it's now all down to the last meet of the series at Apricot Hill. Venari is odds on favourite to win the inaugural GT6 Classic Car Championship title and it'll take a helluva drive by one of the other racers and lot's of lady luck to prevent it. For me as the organiser, it's more important that everyone has fun and enjoys their racing, however, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be trying as hard as the next guy on race day. (Venari, you could always make it interesting and bring your slowest car to the party? I can add the schwimmwagen to the list if you want?) By the way, I'm planning a very small surprise for the winner! In the meantime, could you let me know what you liked and didn't like about this series? Cheers.

 

[buybon355]

I agree the format is mostly nailed first time out. I would go with the pick and mix idea too,and think 400pp on cs tyres is a good shout. Weight or pp penalties is also not a bad shout.

Wasn't a fan of the extreme weather at monza. Not objecting to weather, just felt it was too extreme for me. I like the rate of tyre wear but if the races were 30 minutes everyone could pit and avoid those horrible last laps with no grip.

Great series though Joe, well put together and always runs to schedule. Car selection is good, and has produced some fantastic racing with machinery I never expected. Plus the replays look amazing lol

 

[Venari]

Suts passed my Toyota in his violet Stratos - race 2, dunno the lap. 3 or 4?

I've hugely enjoyed the Winter Classic Champs. It's not over yet, and as for my car choice, it's not as clear cut as you think. I've got three lightweights that lap a second-and-a-half slower than par and save their tyres, and two fast (and one not so fast) heavyweights which like to chew their boots. Which I choose is going to come down to the day. If there's really fast stuff on the grid, my choice is totally open as I'm going to have to work for track position no matter what. Joe, you're fast enough mate, believe me, and it shows in the points.

Pick'n'mix pros: Variety for racing, getting experience of various cars you might not, chances of anyone winning with correct car choice through both strategy and tactics, tyre wear strategies important.
Pick'n'mix cons: Lots of testing can be required by drivers wanting to stay competitive.

I personally think pick'n'mix works and it's worth it. You could just throw a PP level out (and cutoff year) as the constraint, and then throw the car choice totally open. As long as there are at least 20 (or whatever) cars which do fit, the variety may be better*. Sure you might find a rabbit car, but only once, and then everyone else can use it too. That said, if there is a fixed roster and a balanced choice of FF/FR/MR/RR/4WD cars etc, then you're forced to run outside your comfort zone. There are great options at many different PP levels.

* I use the spreadsheet of all GT6 cars and filters to find cars. The online catalogues don't tend to have enough filter options for me.

30min / 10min race would be a fun alternative, but possibly unnecessary for the most part. Horrible last laps are part of the fun. Nurburgring was a nice change. As for track choice, that's down to PP as much as anything. Example: I think 20mins of 400PPs at Autumn Ring Mini would be hilarious. I think 525PPs there would be chaos - but awesome at Le Mans... which might be torturous with the aformentioned 400PPs.

I like the idea of running on user-created tracks, but they'll need to be chosen carefully. Most are... poor.

PP handicapping is a little contrived and tricky to work out but does make racing closer. ±10PP across the field based on championship position might work.

Weather is a tricky thing. I enjoy the challenge, I think if it's known at the beginning of the season people have the chance to get a better handle on it.

I think the series could stand a couple more rounds, but that depends on car availabilities, etc.

Otherwise, the overall format of the series has been great. Turning off traction control might be an option.

 

[gerber]

If it's going to be 2 races per event, how about one race pick n mix, and one race everyone the same car, same settings (or simply stock). One race for tuning and racing skills, and one race for pure racing skills

 

[Venari]

Setting up a Jaguar

Suzuka and the 240ZG, a test.




Race 1: Joe leads off the start into Turn 1.

After 2 laps, I get a good run off 130R and outbrake Joe down the outside...

... make it stick...

... but disaster with a collision here causes Joe to spear off into the kittylitter.

Action past the 'S'-curves.

A loss of traction at the hairpin and I bounce off the armco dropping to third.


Race 2: Battle Royale commences!

Up through the 'S'-curves, nose to tail...


Still pretty much nose-to-tail at the hairpin.

Blue watches the mirrors while taking it cautiously in the Esprit.

o/' Clown's to the left of him, Joe Kerr's to the right... o/'
o/' ... you're - stuck in the middle with Blue... o/'

After making the pass stick, Blue has to deal with Stratoses everywhere.

Suts flying on good tyres in the Stratos.

The blue gets a good run on me and my avoiding action was a bit too much...

Joe and I at it again...

While Suts fends off Blue and If.

Entertaining Joe with dorifto action.

Spin 1! Suts overcooks Turn 1 and drops many places recovering.

Spin 2! A little love tap after If brakes conservatively into Turn 1 and a hard chasing Joe clonks him.

I'll take tha... whoa, oooooooh, waahhhhh!

 

[Sutsagrd]

Suts, what race and lap was that? I'd like to check it out.

Suts passed my Toyota in his violet Stratos - race 2, dunno the lap. 3 or 4?

Thanks Venari. It was lap 3 between 1:12:00 to 1:30:27...not that I looked at it in much detail

It was a nice pass. Nothing I could do. I'm happy my tips are working for you.

I think you were easy on me. I'm sure you could have closed me off, but it was great driving from you. I felt a fraud out there with your tune, as later you saw what occurred....Hero to zero.

Have a picture...

Paul, I completely missed this was me with you in the background. Thanks brill picture!! Should have recognised the helmet

Don't usually do this but managed to get a few piccy's myself...

Really good start with 3-4 a breast in places

Blue, Reefer and Venari seeing if 3 is a crowd?

We're all going round the bend at the Hairpin...

Venari practicing for his later grand slide

Sorry...had to include this one

Reefer, I've had a great time with this championship. I love the cars and ability to pick different ones. I agree with much of what's been said already. Make sure we always use different cars. Maybe have a one make race with same or no tune. I would keep to normal tracks but that's just my personal preference. If you keep it Saturday nights for us in the UK, I'm available more often than not.

 

[bloodyboyblue]

I do like the idea of having no/same tune races, maybe not every week, but at least sometimes. I also like mixing it up for the format. 2x20 works well mostly, but one or two 40-60 minute endurance races in there would be good. I also like the very fast tire wear the way it is, since it means the fastest car doesn't always win. I also vote for having an oval race haha, but you knew I'd say that. Double 30-40 lappers on one of the short ovals I have in my custom track selection maybe....one dry one wet to simulate a dirt track...maybe..

Anyways I don't really have anything bad to say about this series. It's definitely my favourite series I've been a part of, mostly because it's laid back and fun and everyone seems to have the same attitude.

 

[reefer]

Thanks for all the comments and photos above with running commentary. Great to read.

It seems that people have enjoyed this series. What has made it a success is you guys. Really.

I think blue summed it up nicely:

It's definitely my favourite series I've been a part of, mostly because it's laid back and fun and everyone seems to have the same attitude.

And that was exactly the aim of this championship when I set it out. It had to be easy and it had to be fun. Twas both for me!

I don't think the perfect format exists that's going to please everyone and it's down to the people involved that have made it enjoyable for me. When quarter was asked for, quarter was given; we race hard but we race fair; when someone was knocked off, no grumble was heard. You've also been generous with your time contributing to this thread, supplying commentary, tunes, race reports etc all for the benefit of others, none of which you had to do. A great bunch of guys and I couldn't have asked for more really. Also, it's tight at the top which means everything comes down to the last race!

Summarising what I've read so far for a possible next series:

· 8 meets /16 races works well

· Same format as first series: 2 x 20 min races for 7 of the 8 meets

· 1 meet: 50 min / 10 minutes

· 400pp / 450pp

· tyres: sport soft / comfort soft

· car choice: mandatory mix ‘n’ match system for each race

· 20 cars for 16 rounds

· 4 of each drivetrain: FF/FR/MR/RR/4WD

· car list: use cars that don’t get run much

· 1 race no tune / second race one-make

· tyre wear: fast or very fast

· tracks: try a couple of user-created tracks as well as some different ones from first series


Should we change anything about the points system?

 

[bloodyboyblue]

Thanks for all the comments and photos above with running commentary. Great to read.

It seems that people have enjoyed this series. What has made it a success is you guys. Really.

I think blue summed it up nicely:



And that was exactly the aim of this championship when I set it out. It had to be easy and it had to be fun. Twas both for me!

I don't think the perfect format exists that's going to please everyone and it's down to the people involved that have made it enjoyable for me. When quarter was asked for, quarter was given; we race hard but we race fair; when someone was knocked off, no grumble was heard. You've also been generous with your time contributing to this thread, supplying commentary, tunes, race reports etc all for the benefit of others, none of which you had to do. A great bunch of guys and I couldn't have asked for more really. Also, it's tight at the top which means everything comes down to the last race!

Summarising what I've read so far for a possible next series:

· 8 meets /16 races works well

· Same format as first series: 2 x 20 min races for 7 of the 8 meets

· 1 meet: 50 min / 10 minutes

· 400pp / 450pp

· tyres: sport soft / comfort soft

· car choice: mandatory mix ‘n’ match system for each race

· 20 cars for 16 rounds

· 4 of each drivetrain: FF/FR/MR/RR/4WD

· car list: use cars that don’t get run much

· 1 race no tune / second race one-make

· tyre wear: fast or very fast

· tracks: try a couple of user-created tracks as well as some different ones from first series


Should we change anything about the points system?

The more races notune/one make there are takes away from the number of races we have to choose our own car, aka if there's 8 one make races that means we'd only have to pick 8 out of the 20 cars for the others so we'd never be out of our own comfort zone. I feel like they should be in addition to the 16, or the car list should be 4 more than the number of tuning races whatever number that is.

Also an equal number of each drivetrain doesn't work since most of the classics are FR, and there's so few RRs in the game. Like 10 FR/4 FF/3 4WD/2 MR/1 RR or 8 FR/5 FF/2 RR/3 MR/2 4WD is probably more like what will have to happen. Unless the schwimmwagen counts as RR ha. Then again I guess if you count the Schwimm, beetle, 500 and one of the alpines that's already 4 so who knows. But then you wouldn't need 4 MRs. I'm sure it'll all work out.

I guess you used the slashes to mark the choices. Since one pp is what it needs to be. Anyway I'm rambling since I'm posting at 4am and can't sleep.

 

[Venari]

Also the no tune/tuned will only work if there are 8 pre-determined 'fixed' cars for those races. (Us LAN old schoolers call this 'Dutch-style' racing.) On the plus side, these can be anything on any tyre at any PP - something that works well and is fun. Downside of that is for the organiser - it takes a lot of testing to find stock combos that work.

I agree on the car format comment - just a good mix is fine. As blue says, 4WD = Schwimmwagen. No Jensen Interceptor FF for us, unfortunately.

 

[IfAndOr]

There are four racers still in with a chance, five if you include If,

Even I'm not putting a bet on that.


Reading through the previous posts...

Race format suggestion - Why not have 2 weeks of normal championship races then 1 week of "fun" (untuned?) one make races - then repeat. This would extend the series by only 3 weeks and would add to the variety without affecting the normal race days. (4 weeks if you add one after the main event has finished)
The "specials" could be if wanted completely different to the championship cars, maybe more powerful/modern/racecar/Schwimmwagen, whatever. Not sure if you'd have these as point scoring, or maybe even treat it as a separate mini championship. Two titles to chase!

Weather - You can set it to be quite random. The it might rain it might not factor adds some unpredictability to races. If you're interested I'll get the settings that are used in another club I'm in, they always seem to provide good results - generally dry with very occasional rain.

Race lengths - Work well for me.

Mandatory mix ‘n’ match - 16(20) cars is quite a lot to buy and setup just to use once. And, unless you are running them stock, it's a lot of tunes for Venari to post up! ;-)
It could also look a bit daunting to someone who might be looking to join the series. I'd prefer to use just one per meeting so that I'd get time to test it and get to know it better during the preceding week.

PP/Tyres - Don't mind as long as it's fun. Although the lower powered cars often provide for closer racing.

Tyre wear - Myself, I'd prefer it was set to fast to prolong the close racing. Although you could have vfast and add mandatory pitstops, which again adds to the race strategy.

Tracks - I'm easy. The best races I find are on the fictional PD tracks! For CM tracks everyone would need to know well in advance to practice.

Points system - Anyone who's user name begins with the letter I gets bonus points.


Now having said all that I might not be able to make the next championship, or at least have less appearances. The problematic 10pm time slot can tend to get more so in the early part of the year. I'll have to see how it goes.

 

[reefer]

All just ideas at the moment. The possible no tune / one-make race would only be for one meet. When I've ran one-make rooms before they've always worked out well. Not sure though.. maybe as an addition..

A mandatory mix 'n' match car choice system for the championship seems good.

@IfAndOr makes a good point in that running 16 cars from an 18/20 list would involve a lot of buying, tuning and testing. So maybe 8 cars from 10/12 is the way to go? One car per meet? Like others, I'm time challenged too and unless someone has the time and can put in consistent laps for testing 18/20 cars, then maybe a shorter car list is better? Personally, 450pp on ss tyres is the most appealing for me as power/suspension can often be tweaked for 500pp online lobbies.

Also, I'd be interested in the weather settings you mentioned If.

Would 11pm GMT work instead of 10pm? Can anyone not manage 11pm?

Re this weekend: I think we'll just run the room time at 10am or similar as I'm still struggling to see my TV in low lighted conditions. And, for the 4 protagonists at the top, don't take my word as gospel on the points required to win. They might be out by a point/place or two.

 

[Venari]

You could run a one-make race if you didn't have a quorum on a certain week. So your series order would be set, each week would be racing, but if people dropped, you could throw in a 'friendly' and postpone the main series.

You could limit the mixing'n'matching somewhat, as you said, one car per race weekend... and/or mandate you use every car no more than twice... and/or set races as 'FF-only', 'FR-only'...

400PP is interesting because as mentioned before - you don't see those cars out a lot. And racing tends to be closer the smaller both the performance difference and absolute performance of the cars is.

Times... well, I got the job in the US today, so I'm going to be all over the place until March. Hopefully never without a PS3/GT6, but there's no guarantee...

 

[reefer]

Congrats on confirmation of the new job Venari Hope all works out well for you:tup:

I know some have been mentioned, but would you have a shortlist of ten fav suitable 400pp cars? It's a pp I've never ran at.

 

[bloodyboyblue]

As far as the carlist goes, who says you have to buy them all? I've been buying the ones I'm using that week like the hour before the race. Definitely not in advance and there's still a few from this series I haven't bought since I know I won't use them. But then again I have standard tunes for all FR/FF/4WD that are the same and work with everything

 

[Harsk100]

I'm planning to join for the next series of Reefer Madness, if possible. I have been doing clean races recently in WCR. 👍

 

[buybon355]

One car per meeting suits me. Can work with anything else. Format has been good, and had produced close racing and a close championship. Must be doing something right!

 

[Venari]

Ten? Cor. How about:

Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale
Alpine A310 1600VE
Autobianchi A112 Abarth
Fiat 500 F **** Binned - too slow/twitchy at 400PP
Lotus Elan S1
Marcos Mini Marcos GT
Triumph Spitfire 1500
Volkswagen 1200
Volkswagen Karmann Ghia Coupe (Type-1)
Honda CIVIC 1500 3door CX
Honda 1300 Coupe 9 S
Nissan SILVIA (CSP311)
Nissan BLUEBIRD 1600 Deluxe (510)
Toyota 2000GT
Chevrolet Corvette Convertible (C1) **** Binned - too heavy
Mini Cooper '98

I love the 1500 CX Civic, but you could easily replace with an S500/600/800. I've missed the Alfa GTA which itself makes a great 450PP car. The Speciale (if you can paint it) is a pretty alternative.

I may be a bit pressed on time for the next couple of months, but I can assist in testing if you wish - we can take that to PM and just bang three or four laps in each on a single track (Apricot Hill is good for this kind of stuff) with a tune just good enough to get them around. If they're within two seconds or so it's a wash.

If you're only going to pick one VW, choose the Karmann. It's lovely.

Oh, and I buy cars for giggles. I have all sorts of crap in my garage and do wish there was a better way of sorting/filtering.

OK, I had a play with these. They lap within 3 seconds of each other (104-107secs) straight off the bat and some of them are very fun. The 500F was slow and snappy, the Corvette (and similar BMW 507) two-three hundred kilos heavier than most. With any of this lot, and setting a 750kg minimum weight, I think it would work pretty well.

 

[bloodyboyblue]

Ten? Cor. How about:

Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale
Alpine A310 1600VE
Autobianchi A112 Abarth
Fiat 500 F
Lotus Elan S1
Marcos Mini Marcos GT
Triumph Spitfire 1500
Volkswagen 1200
Volkswagen Karmann Ghia Coupe (Type-1)
Honda CIVIC 1500 3door CX
Honda 1300 Coupe 9 S
Nissan SILVIA (CSP311)
Nissan BLUEBIRD 1600 Deluxe (510)
Toyota 2000GT
Chevrolet Corvette Convertible (C1)
Mini Cooper '98

I love the 1500 CX Civic, but you could easily replace with an S500/600/800. I've missed the Alfa GTA which itself makes a great 450PP car. The Speciale (if you can paint it) is a pretty alternative.

I may be a bit pressed on time for the next couple of months, but I can assist in testing if you wish - we can take that to PM and just bang three or four laps in each on a single track (Apricot Hill is good for this kind of stuff) with a tune just good enough to get them around. If they're within two seconds or so it's a wash.

if you're only going to pick one VW, choose the Karmann. It's lovely.

Oh, and I buy cars for giggles. I have all sorts of crap in my garage and do wish there was a better way of sorting/filtering.

I like this list except for the 2000gt and 510 are miles faster than everything else, and are two of the common 400pp lobby cars. I've never used either of them but it seems like the 2000gt is always fast but the 510 is more tune dependent like the beetle.I'd replace them with something 4WD since there aren't any on the list otherwise.

 

[Venari]

Beetle had loads of grip, but you need to tame the pendulum. 510 not bad in initial test but not fastest by a long chalk.

However, yes, I put a rough tune on them and went and only went and did a couple of laps. 510 drives nicely. 2000GT stiffly sprung and i think suffered for it - off the bat it was one of the slowest cars in this initial test.

There are no 4WD classic cars really. Not worth thinking about IMO, these cars were fun and danced a little bit, but nothing tyre-killing here.

What else might you have added? Honda S800 probably worth a look, Toyota Sports 800 too (both might be a bit light. How about splashing the cash for the 3mill Abarth Biposto? I've never driven that.

 

[gerber]

Oh no... I was looking forward to the race and I was practicing for the last few days and now I just realized that tommorow I'm going to the cinema, exactly at 10pm (the tickets were booked a while ago). What a shame

I hope you will have an intense, clean and exciting race