- 887
- bristol
- smokebeer
- FOGSmokebeer
Refunded the game
- Thread starter thehonestjock
- 147 comments
- 13,902 views
- 835
- United States
Like they say in the Dark Souls community: Git Gud! lol
Seriously though, most people were done with Cafe/Missions/License tests in 20hr (and that's being generous... it was 15-ish for myself) How can you possibly spend 4hr a day and not be done? I'm actually curious as most races in Cafe take 10min or less. The longest championship in the game takes 45-50min. I'll be generous and say each cafe thing takes 20min on average, so three in an hour, meaning you should have completed it in 12-13 days. That leaves you with 40 more hours to do the missions and licenses.
I mean that's great that you've found a way to drag out this tiny amount of content that long, but your pace is lagging well behind most players.
Edit: Nvm. I see you spend it online. There are a lot of us that either skipped or largely ignored Sport because we don't care for online races, especially BoP which are the only races available in Sport (or were last week anyway)
Online is not content for me unless I can tune a car for the race. BoP ends up with everyone driving one car and is just a bore, especially given the state of Sport/multiplayer at the moment.
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- 71
- New Zealand
calling me a moron when the whole reason gt7 is a 1.0 user score is because people can't get any cars cause of money nerfs, i honestly don't know how some people can even operator a computer
imagine coming into a thread talking about content of the game then saying it's full of content because of online, like no **** playing against other people keeps you occupied that literally has nothing to do with the topic at all
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- 835
- United States
And then called people moron for car collecting in a Gran Turismo game, lol. Like have you actually played a GT other than Sport? This isn't ACC; people love this franchise for the "gaminess", the pokemon/jrpg/car mashup. That's what made the series so wildly successful.
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- 433
- Canada
- Zero_to_oblivion
What? I haven't stated that anyone is a moron for wanting to collect cars in a GT game.
Have you hit "reply" to one of my posts assuming I'm someone else?
I did point out why a lot of people who play racing games do so, but I haven't insulted anyone for wanting to collect cars...
- 28,352
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
I'm only going to say this once, the thinly-veiled insults and quips stop here and now. If you're incapable of attacking the point being made without also attacking the person, you're not going to last long here.
Back to your regular programming.
Back to your regular programming.
- 5,767
- USA
- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
- 11,318
- Sweden
- eran0004
Yep, that’s pretty much how it works in many cases.
Jewel Runner
(Banned)
- 141
- United States
Wish me luck
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- 28
- United Kingdom
The licences and some missions needed multiple replays to get gold but those are 1 or 2 minute segments, I think I had to do 3 or 4 of the races more than once and that was primarily due to the rain mechanic and mistakes. I dont think I am some sort of savant, the AI is not challenging in the slightest even on the hardest difficulty (apart from when they drive like you dont exist and spin you out) and the suggested PP was ample for beating the race in most cases.
To be clear I have at no point suggested that I 100%ed the game in one weekend but I did get through all of the menus and the majority of the missions and the licences up to and including IB. However I hadnt done the circuit experiences and never claimed that I had, nor had I completed all of the missions (primarily due to the tyre bug) I still had IA licence and the SL to do.
"The game will grow" Was it marketed as early access? Was it charged at early access prices? No. Then I expect, as a paying customer, to get a complete experience as if it was in development for the best part of a decade. I do not expect a smattering of races and 39 "menus" as a single player despite the game allegedly going back to its roots. If you bought a car and it only ran for 500miles then stopped would you accept the dealer telling you its a long term purchase and you need to just wait until they fix the issues with the car and add in some additional miles that you can use?
If I approach the game as a game only...... U w0t m8
It is a game, I purchased a game, I didnt purchase a burger or a boat. What are you talking about!?
I also didn't BUY a job, I have no interest in paying for something that I need to work 9-5 at suffering through the monotony of it in order to earn a salary to buy the cars.... I already do that, its called REAL LIFE.
If you think about any real life racing series they also make big bank from sponsorship and are paid extremely well at the upper echelons, they dont have to spend 25hrs driving round and round fishy ranch to buy a car.
For me the "end game"/longevity of GT7 is the Nation Cup and the Manufacturer Cup, I entered those and 9 out of the 10 lobbies I entered had bugs that either meant sitting for 20mins waiting for the race to start or the race never starting and the lobby closing. Or the daily races however those suffer the same issue.
- 105
- Germany
delete
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I have a feeling that all you need to justify a refund here is points 1 & 2. Advertising standards exist, and the first two are direct contraventions of them; the fact the MTX details were held back until after the reviews went out can also be considered a form of manipulation and false advertising.Well during the 30+ hour outage and with the realisation that the game was always online, had been artificially constructed to limit in game earnings and create "grind", the extremely limited content in terms of the single player experience, the shockingly bad lobby experience compared to GTS along with a range of gripes, complaints and bugs I decided to request a refund for my 25th Anniversary Ed digital download from Sony and today, following an initial refusal (they jumped to the "You downloaded it" argument) and a follow up email from me to Sony Support, this was accepted. £89.99 will be refunded back into my account.
This came with mixed emotions, I do enjoy the actual gameplay of GT7 and when its working it works well but I cannot stand this ever more frequent game release where fans like me are completely and utterly screwed over in pursuit of literally ALL of our money. Games are not there to be second jobs or require hundreds upon hundreds of hours of boring and unenjoyable grind to access the game. We buy games for enjoyment and to have fun. Not to do the same event 100,000 times so that we can buy a few cars or avoid having to spend £150 on microtransactions. For that reason I believe that it is important that we as consumers take a stand and say enough is enough.
For those interested I used the below justification for my refund request, this email was my response to their initial attempt to refuse the refund.
QUOTE
I am extremely disappointed that despite my providing a list of issues that I raised with this request only one of them has been focused on in order to refuse the refund request.
Again for clarification below is a list of issues that I cite in relation to a refund:
There are multiple serious instances of false advertising around this game, some of which is still ongoing and continues to mislead consumers into purchasing a product that WILL NOT fulfil the promises it is making and is outright misleading customers into purchasing it. The fact that the developer removed access to the game for over 30hours is only one of a laundry list of reasons and therefore I request that this is again looked at with a more comprehensive view rather than a singular focus in order to reject the refund.
- Mis-Sold: The store page states "Online Play Optional" this is simply false, in order to play and progress in the game an online connection is REQUIRED, this was demonstrated when the servers went down for over 30 hours leaving the game effectively unplayable. This claim is not true and is misleading
- Mis-Sold: The game was marketed advising that you would be able to BUY and SELL your cars, this is not possible in GT7, cars CANNOT be sold, this is also another attempt to force players into the "In-Game Purchases". The store page for the game still states: "GT Simulation Mode, buy, tune, race and sell your way through a rewarding solo campaign". This is not true and is misleading
- Mis-Sold: The store page states "In-game purchases optional" While this may be true in the technical sense, the game is designed in such a way that if you do not purchase credits then you will not be able to access content within the game, namely the high price cars, for example within the first week there were cars for sale around 18million this is not achievable unless you grind credits in game non stop without interruption for around 12hours. This claim is dubious at best and is a dishonest claim.
- Bugs: The game had multiple bugs preventing progress through the game, some of these were introduced by the developer in their patch like the tyre bug.
- Bugs: On-line lobbies are far more likely to bug/glitch than to be successful, when trying to enter the National and Manufacturer races 9 of 10 of these encountered lobby bugs where the game would not play and instead everyone was trapped in the lobby. This also extends to normal lobbies where being stuck in the pits, being on the track alone despite other players being on the track and the complete absence of functionality around changing settings despite this being present in GT Sport.
- Economy is fundamentally broken: The ultra high price of cars combined with the low pay out of races is yet another way that "In-game purchases" are forced onto the player, this was also changed POST release meaning it was publicised, reviewed and marketed without this being made clear.
- Missing Features: Engine swaps were widely publicised and touted within the game, these are not present in the game at all.
- Access to the product: The game was down for more than 30hrs with zero communication from the developer until near the end of the outage.
/QUOTE
I will likely pick GT7 up in the future once the in game economy is corrected and a more complete and comprehensive single player has been added in addition to the basic multiplayer lobby functionality. I live in hope that this will be sorted and I can again buy the game.
Peace
Anything that is changed with a patch can be patched again and so doesn't strengthen the case for a refund, but anything that's already happened and cannot be changed - such as the offical marketing as it stood at time of purchase - definitely does.
- 28
- United Kingdom
- 433
- Canada
- Zero_to_oblivion
You are indeed correct - however how you approach it defines what you get out of it, and after that initial opening I explained what most of us are looking to get out of it: the experience of racing. If you approach the game as a casual with no interest of investing more than a few hours here or there, then you probably won't be as satisfied with the experience the game provides. If you approach the game as an experience that will allow you to learn and improve you race-craft, you'll probably be quite satisfied.
Now please do me a favour - realize that this is a discussion with many differing opinions, not one true opinion above everyone else's. Different people get different things out of GT7, and that is what I was explaining with my comment.
Jewel Runner
(Banned)
- 141
- United States
Read the room buddy. Not all opinions are equal. If someone's opinion is that GT7 is a great game that has been worth waiting for then they are categorically wrong, but that's still their opinion and they still might enjoy the game.
Try having an opinion like that in the real world face to face with people. No didn't think so because you would look like an idiot. The internet gives people something to hide behind and shout silly things.
PD got it wrong on many aspects and all the criticism is deserved.
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- 835
- United States
You also have legal recourse should the contractor screw you over. Video games are one of the only products where no consumer advocacy groups or legal protections for consumers exist.
@Zero2Oblivion This is not a hardcore racing sim, not even close. GT Sport was veering closer to it than GT7, but even then it was nowhere near a PC (or even ACC on console) racing sim. It's a car collection game with casual racing.
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- 11,318
- Sweden
- eran0004
Perhaps it’s different in your country, but over here consumer laws apply to video games.
- 12
- Hungary
While I can understand the complaints about the multiplayer bugs, I totally disagree with the conception of that you MUST BE ABLE TO and HAVE TO buy every legendary 20 million cars while the game is released not even a month ago.
You'll love to drive it even more if some work lays in the background for it (and no, i dont mean 25 hours of grind a day so you can have it in a week - i'll speak about this later). But a lot of people just want everything at their feet all at once to get bored in 2 weeks and throw the game into the corner on the top of all the stupid superhero games.
I prefer enjoying a game's every aspect and I'm sure a lot of complaining kids didnt even do anything other than the 39 cafe menus. They'll give us more content, why cant you be patient a little and enjoy the missions, circuit experiences, the photo scapes with your own liveries, perfecting the licence tests, and so on?!
But w/e, I'll be a minority with my opinion anyway because these new generations want to just blast through the games, you're always in rush, no time, so let me just leave a picture here as a counterweight for the scale.
You'll love to drive it even more if some work lays in the background for it (and no, i dont mean 25 hours of grind a day so you can have it in a week - i'll speak about this later). But a lot of people just want everything at their feet all at once to get bored in 2 weeks and throw the game into the corner on the top of all the stupid superhero games.
I prefer enjoying a game's every aspect and I'm sure a lot of complaining kids didnt even do anything other than the 39 cafe menus. They'll give us more content, why cant you be patient a little and enjoy the missions, circuit experiences, the photo scapes with your own liveries, perfecting the licence tests, and so on?!
But w/e, I'll be a minority with my opinion anyway because these new generations want to just blast through the games, you're always in rush, no time, so let me just leave a picture here as a counterweight for the scale.
- 835
- United States
Yeah, not in the states... There might be some laws that apply but they functionally don't exist without getting an attorney, and no one is going to retain a lawyer for a $60-70 game.
@Seneee It's not about getting everything immediately; very few are making that argument. It's about having reasonable access. If I want to sell every car I own to buy a Mclaren F1 I should be able to. I shouldn't have to wait 2-3 months if I miss a car in the LCD and then just hope I happen to be playing when it comes back around.
Had PD come out and said that this was going to be a drastic departure from previous numbered GT titles it wouldn't have been such a big deal as people like myself never would have bought it. But they specifically marketed this game as a return to the series roots, and those roots included ways to earn credits efficiently, player-control over when the dealerships cycles (every three races) and we could sell both prize cars and those that we purchased. The huckster's at PD claim some of these changes are coming, but we'll see.
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- 670
- London
- potatoe506
Err you do realise that loads of people buy houses in this way right? Like I get what you're going for, but this is an actual real world thing that happens all the time lol
Edit: Okay so not the first person to say that having read through some more of this thread. On the other hand, boy, I sure wish I hadn't read through the rest of this thread.
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- 235
- England
Imagine, if PD blacklist the OP and refuse to let him purchase the game at a later date.
- 87,702
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Yeah, that picture isn't what anyone is saying, but "nice" try.
There is a gaping chasm between "I don't really want to have to grind the same one or two races (from a tiny selection of available races) an hour a day for literally a month in order to buy one single high value car, or more than a year to acquire them all (not including the ones they add in that year) because I'd quite like to do some other stuff with my limited gaming time like enjoying all these cars and tracks" and "I WANT EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW".
If GT7 had even launched with just the races from GT Sport (what with having all but four of GT Sport's cars, and all of its tracks, making that literally no problem) it would be at least a few steps down from the interminable, worst-in-series grind.
Also, I don't know if you've checked your claimed age recently, but that "new generation" you're talking about with idiotic stereotypes? You're in it - and currently not doing it any favours by posting dumb stuff you've made up instead of actual reasoned comments.
- 433
- Canada
- Zero_to_oblivion
I think it's fair to say that this thread, and this topic, has largely come down to people attacking eachother, or feeling that they're being attacked and so aggressively defending themselves, instead of a discussion. It's a case of "you're either on my team or you're against me".
Some people may not agree with the current state of the game and how it was rolled out, some people may be perfectly happy with it. In reality neither opinion is right or wrong. It's just about preference.
I'll admit that I got a bit annoyed while debating some points with OP, and forgot that OPs opinion is formed around their own preference, so I apologize for that.
Some people may not agree with the current state of the game and how it was rolled out, some people may be perfectly happy with it. In reality neither opinion is right or wrong. It's just about preference.
I'll admit that I got a bit annoyed while debating some points with OP, and forgot that OPs opinion is formed around their own preference, so I apologize for that.
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- 12
- Hungary
It was >75 years (an average human's lifespan) since the last world war ended. And it looks like everyone forgot every aspect of it already. For me everyone looks like who is ready to spill the blood at any time. I think its coming guys. [/off]
It made me extremely surprised that i even made an administrator kind of go furious on my comment.
Literally every aspect of our lives are full with hatred, rage and impatience. Just in the time that i feel like I could start to enjoy what I worked for in the past, the world is ready to set everything on fire. But okay, i stop offing the topic and just go away with my "idiotic", "dumb" posts and try to die silently so i wont bother anyone and save the mods some time, so they wont have to ban me.
Bye, enjoy.
- 87,702
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Not even close to it. The whole thing made me laugh - mainly at the parts where anyone could have possibly thought that was a reasonable thing to... I don't know, draw, I guess, and where someone who's actually from the generation often (unfairly) stereotyped as having no patience or concentration span and wanting participation awards* floats that very same stereotype.
Perhaps if you stopped making nonsense up to attack and resorting to tired stereotypes, and instead addressed the actual points made by people, you might have a more enjoyable experience.
*Which is usually what their boomer parents want for them.
To Admin/others, you buy a game for what it is in the current state. Not the state it might be in the next few months. If you were told a car you just bought might get more powerful and more features in the future, with no timeline or promises, would you keep the car? Not a single person that owns GT7 can say the game was released in a fully production-ready form. We effectively bought a beta product that's worse than GT Sport in a lot of ways.
