Refunded the game
- Thread starter thehonestjock
- 147 comments
- 13,277 views
- 2,777
- New Plymouth
So I must be an outlier here. I was adamant about not pre-ordering the game as I figured it would have bugs and glitches to work out and I couldn't be bothered with fighting through them at the price of a full game.
Then I found it on sale for over 35% off so made the plunge. And while I'm annoyed at issues with the lobbies and disaster of the online server stability I'm still finding a lot of fun in the game. Between trying the missions and holding off on Circuit Experience until they raise the payouts I have some single player content waiting for me. With friends in racing leagues, Manu and Nations cups and time trial challenges and combos competing with others I have lots of online content to play with as well.
There are definite weaknesses in the game, but not worth the massive amount of complaining that seems to be going on. I'm also well aware that this game was supposed to be completely redesigned from the ground up to operate solely on the PS5 and that the challenge to back-port it to PS4 due to the PS5 shortages will have really crippled the development schedule.
That said, OP's points:
1) Wrong. You can play single player mode, but internet connection required was in the info for this game from Day 1. Read up on what you are buying.
2) I want to sell my cars too and am properly annoyed at this as well. I've had 2 Gr3 Corvettea and now 3 Clio cup cars. I would love to get the cash from them. I want this fixed now, but as I'm still exploring its only a minor annoyance.
3)Garbage. I haven't done any grinding and actually have a large number of the cars I want. You don't have to pay micro-transactions to get the cars, but maybe budget spending and play more. Drive different races, explore other avenues of getting money by recycling sunday cup series. Try to win with the lowest PP car possible. You know, like the old GT games.
4 and 5) Bugs are pretty annoying but while I hear lots of stories of them I've only had them a small number of times. Is this a problem? Yes. Server stability seems to be at an all time low and as frustrating as it is I'm still finding good connections and races. This will improve with more load testing. No server network ever works perfectly from launch, much less one with millions of people logging in quickly. However I do want this fixed soon.
6)Again in game economy can be a grind, but there is no way anyone was expected to have 18 million on week 1. Don't let FOMO mess with your head. Find the fun cars. The whales will come back around. So build up a finely tuned garage while you slowly grow the bank.
7) Engine swaps. This wasn't a highly touted feature from PD. The first anyone saw ofbit was when it was slipped into the State of Play video as part of the tuning and customization segment. It wasn't until the game was out before anyone found out how it worked, how you got engines or anything. If anything it was a smaller detail that got blown up by the fan base for being something GT hadn't really done before. Not blown up into a massive thing by PD.
8) Outage. PD addressed this in the letter. And it was annoying. But they honestly kept it offline as it was apparently looking to permanently ruin people's games if they let it stay live after that update and they had to scramble like crazy to develop a patch. Not easy. They also gave you you a bonus 1 million credits as part of the apology. A lot of developers wouldn't bother with that. Not great, but for one of the first times ever PD has responded to the public.
Not enough legit reasons by my way of thinking to demand a refund. Sure you can complain it isn't everything you wanted, but it was never going to be everything everyone wanted. It was also going to be some good, some bad. And to be honest, GTS was still plagued with the put bug glitch until GT7 released so expecting the thing to ever be 100pct bug free is a dream. I'm enjoying the game and still having a lot of fun with it.
You do you, I'm gonna do me.
Edited as I forgot to address engine swaps
Then I found it on sale for over 35% off so made the plunge. And while I'm annoyed at issues with the lobbies and disaster of the online server stability I'm still finding a lot of fun in the game. Between trying the missions and holding off on Circuit Experience until they raise the payouts I have some single player content waiting for me. With friends in racing leagues, Manu and Nations cups and time trial challenges and combos competing with others I have lots of online content to play with as well.
There are definite weaknesses in the game, but not worth the massive amount of complaining that seems to be going on. I'm also well aware that this game was supposed to be completely redesigned from the ground up to operate solely on the PS5 and that the challenge to back-port it to PS4 due to the PS5 shortages will have really crippled the development schedule.
That said, OP's points:
1) Wrong. You can play single player mode, but internet connection required was in the info for this game from Day 1. Read up on what you are buying.
2) I want to sell my cars too and am properly annoyed at this as well. I've had 2 Gr3 Corvettea and now 3 Clio cup cars. I would love to get the cash from them. I want this fixed now, but as I'm still exploring its only a minor annoyance.
3)Garbage. I haven't done any grinding and actually have a large number of the cars I want. You don't have to pay micro-transactions to get the cars, but maybe budget spending and play more. Drive different races, explore other avenues of getting money by recycling sunday cup series. Try to win with the lowest PP car possible. You know, like the old GT games.
4 and 5) Bugs are pretty annoying but while I hear lots of stories of them I've only had them a small number of times. Is this a problem? Yes. Server stability seems to be at an all time low and as frustrating as it is I'm still finding good connections and races. This will improve with more load testing. No server network ever works perfectly from launch, much less one with millions of people logging in quickly. However I do want this fixed soon.
6)Again in game economy can be a grind, but there is no way anyone was expected to have 18 million on week 1. Don't let FOMO mess with your head. Find the fun cars. The whales will come back around. So build up a finely tuned garage while you slowly grow the bank.
7) Engine swaps. This wasn't a highly touted feature from PD. The first anyone saw ofbit was when it was slipped into the State of Play video as part of the tuning and customization segment. It wasn't until the game was out before anyone found out how it worked, how you got engines or anything. If anything it was a smaller detail that got blown up by the fan base for being something GT hadn't really done before. Not blown up into a massive thing by PD.
8) Outage. PD addressed this in the letter. And it was annoying. But they honestly kept it offline as it was apparently looking to permanently ruin people's games if they let it stay live after that update and they had to scramble like crazy to develop a patch. Not easy. They also gave you you a bonus 1 million credits as part of the apology. A lot of developers wouldn't bother with that. Not great, but for one of the first times ever PD has responded to the public.
Not enough legit reasons by my way of thinking to demand a refund. Sure you can complain it isn't everything you wanted, but it was never going to be everything everyone wanted. It was also going to be some good, some bad. And to be honest, GTS was still plagued with the put bug glitch until GT7 released so expecting the thing to ever be 100pct bug free is a dream. I'm enjoying the game and still having a lot of fun with it.
You do you, I'm gonna do me.
Edited as I forgot to address engine swaps
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Definite teenage angst and energy, here.
Remember when you lived under your parents roof and didn't have to worry about obligations like bills, and family? You could waste your day guilt-free doing the dumbest things without a care in the world. I remember wasting way too long as a kid playing Road Rash 2 while listening to the 'cool' albums of the time - Jagged Little Pill, The Score... I thought I was so cool and edgy.
To have that kind of time now...
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- 1,675
- UK
It would be fab.Though there were no consoles `when i was a lad`apart from the old Atari tennis TV game which we couldnt afford.Out all day on our pushbikes with just enough for a drink and a small bag of chips for lunch,football,no mobiles to phone home,etc.
Life at the time seemed hard as nails but my parents always did the best for my sisters and me,looking back now they were cracking times.Happy days for me.👍
- 28
- United Kingdom
No harm no foul. We all love GT and just want the best for it. Its just a shame that 7 has been such a massive misstep.
I also had fun with the game and have said here that under all the grind is actually a really fun rewarding driving experience. But thats the problem, its fighting through the problems that ruin what it could easily have been. I too play weekly with friends as we have done for years on GTS but in GT7 we cant even change the track without having to all be kicked from the lobby and for the host to go through the whole setup again and then we all have to join again.... its just a hassle where is shouldnt be.
In response to your points.
1. I dont accept your premise, single player mode means playing through the game and progressing not being trapped doing "music mode" or time trials. Also having again just now combed through the GT7 PSN store page there still isnt a clear "Connection to servers REQUIRED for majority of content". The only mention I can see is a good old small print * on the "Dream Garage" entry that states "Collect, tune, race and customize hundreds of cars and create your dream garage collection.* " "
*Internet required for most functionality." Now because that is tied specifically to the "Dream Garage" entry on the store page that suggests that internet is required for most functionality for the "Dream Garage" part of the game not the game as a whole. Now if you compare that to say FFXIV store page where right at the very top it states "Online play required". Thats how it should be done for GT7 at least at the very top and saying something like "Online play required for most functionality"
3. Have you bought any of the 18million cars that are available for limited time within the Legend Car lot? If you wanted to could you have bought the high value car that was there in the first week without grinding? I clearly stated that while it was technically true due to the way that the Legend Cars are structured with a limited time to access and the super high credit tag it very much is a tactic to pressure and push customers to the MTX, any rational person could accept that.
6. I dont fall for FOMO, never have. But when FOMO is in a game I paid £90 for with an ever present reminder that I COULD buy more credits it annoys and disgusts me. "Slowly" is the key word there. Again the whole "you just want to have everything now" argument that has been made by many others here is nothing but an asinine, bad faith strawman. I dont want everything now but if there are say 10 18million CR cars and each is the equivalent to 25hrs of non stop grinding the highest payout event thats 250hrs of fishy ranch for only 10 cars, that's completely and utterly unreasonable meaning the Economy is absolutely and fundamentally broken.
7. Someone else covered this, I didn't actually mean that PD themselves had touted it but it was picked up by media and ran with following the state of play. PD did not quell any of that particular hype train.
8. Why didnt they just roll back the version? Also I hadnt realised it was going to be an always online game due to the poor and misleading store page as detailed above (a store page Sony themselves confirmed they had changed on 23/03/22 due to the lack of mentioning the always online part).
Under UK/EU laws its very much something that could be pursued especially given points 1 & 2. If it wasnt then Sony would have stuck to the "You downloaded it therefore refund denied" line that they gave me to begin with. I also do not accept for a minute the idea that they just gave up because I was moaning as someone else suggested. If that were the case there wouldnt be thousands (perhaps 10s of 1000s) of people moaning about Sony refusing their refunds. Clearly they recognised that there was merit in my arguments.
I am glad you enjoy the game, I did too. But its far from acceptable to me in its present state. But as I said in my opening post: "I will likely pick GT7 up in the future once the in game economy is corrected and a more complete and comprehensive single player has been added in addition to the basic multiplayer lobby functionality. I live in hope that this will be sorted and I can again buy the game."
It's funny how easy it is to forget the struggle and just remember the good; the wisdom of time and retrospect
- 408
- Canada
- Zero_to_oblivion
Oof!
Tesla add features and the more powerful "ludicrous" mode after the cars had already been sold. I mean, I get your point, but with EV cars and OTA updates for them, we're quite likely to see more and more cars get performance boosts and additional features after they've been sold now.
Real life cars aren't exactly the best comparison, as they often get released with things "broken" that require recalls to fix, much like games get released "broken" and have to be patched, it's just a lot more prevalent in gaming.
- 2,777
- New Plymouth
It's nice to see the hope to more reasoned points gets a solid response. The only thing I'll continue to argue it's the always online requirement for the game. If you go back to the early teases and discussions from waiting for the game this was a continued point of debate and was fairly widely covered.
I do think it's kind of stupid for some of the stuff that happens, but it was a major sticking point for a lot of people prior to the game coming out. They hate the idea of the constant connection required and don't see the point of it for single player. And I think there is a valid point about that. But it was there on the box when I got my copy and I know it was on the page site when I was checking prices to pre-order it, both on the listing from the shop where I did buy it and in my Sony store. Maybe they screwed up the listing there but this was a fairly contentious issue well before the game's release. If the media running wild over the idea of engine swaps counts as making this a highly touted feature then I think articles mentioning the always online content and the rampant debates about the validity of that should also constitue making people well aware of that issue.
Gran Turismo 7's Kazunori Yamauchi Explains the Always Online Connection That Has Riled Fans - IGN
Gran Turismo series creator, Kazunori Yamauchi, says Gran Turismo 7 will be always online to protect save data for the game.
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- 269
- Canada
- 28
- United Kingdom
How did you get on?
- 28
- United Kingdom
It really isn't and your analogy doesn't make sense for something you can use (theoretically) in perpetuity.
But let me try and optimise your chocolate analogy a little bit, its more accurate if the box of chocolates was one of (if not) the most expensive boxes they sold, it comes half empty (the store has promised that at some point you will get the rest of them), requires you to be at the store in order to open the box and you are required to hold the box for hours and hours to access many of the chocolates or pay an additional surcharge of £150 to eat the "Legendary" chocolates. Oh and some of the chocolates are hollow or arent made properly and parts of the box cant be opened due to faults with its design. Pretty sure returning that wouldn't be all that beyond the pale.
Not even close.
It's more akin to going to a restaurant and ordering Steak and chips. The waiter brings you out a plate of chips and no steak, you look at them quizzically and they tell you the steak is coming.
You've now finished your plate of chips and there is no sign of the steak. When you question the waiter, he replies "be patient sir, you're steak is coming".
Sure the restaurant is nice, and the atmosphere is unique and special. They even offer great starters and fantastic deserts but you're still waiting for your entree to arrive.
The waiter and the other patrons can tell you to be patient all they like, make snarky comments and even suggest you roll up your sleeves and go to the kitchen and cook your own damn steak, or leave.
But if I wanted to cook myself I would have stayed home, and if I knew the steak wasn't going to come with the chips I would have stayed home.
- 1,675
- UK
What have I just been reading.😆
- 86,630
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
You're not taking a long-term view of the chocolates. That's the problem with the new generations: they want all the chocolates right now.
- 28
- United Kingdom
RSClio182
(Banned)
- 72
- United Kingdom
- 28
- United Kingdom
The problem is we got the equivalent of a car with missing doors and no interior. We currently have a validation prototype vehicle in our hands, and we won't get a production-intent vehicle for another 8 months? It's severely unfinished for a game that's been in development for 7+ years. 7 years is enough time to develop 2 vehicles.
- 86,630
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
You mean like every single GT game prior to Sport?
- 387
- United States
Do you expect to own all pokemon at max evolution 4 weeks after a new pokemon game comes out?
Food analogies are horrible. In fact, anything that gets destroyed on use is a horrible comparison. I dont play pokemon so I'm not sure on the grind, but my friend that does says it takes forever. I figured this would be a better analogy than a steak dinner or chocolates.
Also, it did take them forever to release a game designed for a last gen console.
Food analogies are horrible. In fact, anything that gets destroyed on use is a horrible comparison. I dont play pokemon so I'm not sure on the grind, but my friend that does says it takes forever. I figured this would be a better analogy than a steak dinner or chocolates.
Also, it did take them forever to release a game designed for a last gen console.
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- 408
- Canada
- Zero_to_oblivion
That is debatable.
What we wanted the game to be isn't necessarily what PD wanted the game to be, and aside from being able to sell cars, pretty much every feature advertised on the box is in the game.
Now before anyone tries to lynch me as an "apologist", I agree that the game needs a lot more content and balancing, but PD didn't fail to meet their own expectations as to what is in the game at launch, they failed to meet ours based on what we expected but were not promised. They launched a complete game by their own expectations and what they agreed to launch
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- 387
- United States
Speaking of it being a last gen console gome:
There is no way PD planned for COVID. If this game came out for a PS4 in a world with no chip shortages, i.e. no ps5 shortages, would it had been acceptabl to release a product that is constrained by the last gen console.
P.s. I still enjoy the game, just playing devil's advocate, I dont have to support all of their decisions.
There is no way PD planned for COVID. If this game came out for a PS4 in a world with no chip shortages, i.e. no ps5 shortages, would it had been acceptabl to release a product that is constrained by the last gen console.
P.s. I still enjoy the game, just playing devil's advocate, I dont have to support all of their decisions.
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- 458
- Norway
- fairlane305
- 1,427
- ️Leiden
4 weeks is about 4 or 5 times longer than GT7's "career mode" (not a real career mode) lasted me, so yes. Absolutely. If they designed a game with a "career mode" this tiny they should at least have the decency to just let people unlock all content after a month of extremely repetitive gameplay.
GT7 can be completed in less than 10 hours. Why does it take 25 hours of repeating one race to earn the most expensive car in the game (so far, considering the 250 GTO might cost more than 20 million credits)? If a new Pokemon game came out that can be completed in 10 hours or less, while it would take over 400 hours of repeating the exact same battle over and over to actually catch 'em all... Well, it probably would get a well-deserved 1/10 on Metacritic.
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- 387
- United States
I guess we have different definitions of completed since there are new Daily Races every week and content updates are coming. Unlike people with a lot of time and/or who get Gold on every mission/liscense on their first time, no, this game is not "complete" after 10 hours. For a large portion of the playerbase we still got Liscense and mission to do. Oh yeah, and lots of online racing.
- 37
- Harrisburg/PA/USA
- ROMANLEGION
I certainly understand your reasons. And for people to completely disregard the reality of the situation, well, they live in bubble where there are 46 genders and we all live harmoniously. The developers and gaming companies no longer launch games that are ready to rock right out-of-the-gate anymore. The price gouge and prolong releases of more content in order to capitalize, all the while hurting their core gaming communities, has been going on for quite some time. But in the last 2 years, it's gone NUCLEAR!Well during the 30+ hour outage and with the realisation that the game was always online, had been artificially constructed to limit in game earnings and create "grind", the extremely limited content in terms of the single player experience, the shockingly bad lobby experience compared to GTS along with a range of gripes, complaints and bugs I decided to request a refund for my 25th Anniversary Ed digital download from Sony and today, following an initial refusal (they jumped to the "You downloaded it" argument) and a follow up email from me to Sony Support, this was accepted. £89.99 will be refunded back into my account.
This came with mixed emotions, I do enjoy the actual gameplay of GT7 and when its working it works well but I cannot stand this ever more frequent game release where fans like me are completely and utterly screwed over in pursuit of literally ALL of our money. Games are not there to be second jobs or require hundreds upon hundreds of hours of boring and unenjoyable grind to access the game. We buy games for enjoyment and to have fun. Not to do the same event 100,000 times so that we can buy a few cars or avoid having to spend £150 on microtransactions. For that reason I believe that it is important that we as consumers take a stand and say enough is enough.
For those interested I used the below justification for my refund request, this email was my response to their initial attempt to refuse the refund.
QUOTE
I am extremely disappointed that despite my providing a list of issues that I raised with this request only one of them has been focused on in order to refuse the refund request.
Again for clarification below is a list of issues that I cite in relation to a refund:
There are multiple serious instances of false advertising around this game, some of which is still ongoing and continues to mislead consumers into purchasing a product that WILL NOT fulfil the promises it is making and is outright misleading customers into purchasing it. The fact that the developer removed access to the game for over 30hours is only one of a laundry list of reasons and therefore I request that this is again looked at with a more comprehensive view rather than a singular focus in order to reject the refund.
- Mis-Sold: The store page states "Online Play Optional" this is simply false, in order to play and progress in the game an online connection is REQUIRED, this was demonstrated when the servers went down for over 30 hours leaving the game effectively unplayable. This claim is not true and is misleading
- Mis-Sold: The game was marketed advising that you would be able to BUY and SELL your cars, this is not possible in GT7, cars CANNOT be sold, this is also another attempt to force players into the "In-Game Purchases". The store page for the game still states: "GT Simulation Mode, buy, tune, race and sell your way through a rewarding solo campaign". This is not true and is misleading
- Mis-Sold: The store page states "In-game purchases optional" While this may be true in the technical sense, the game is designed in such a way that if you do not purchase credits then you will not be able to access content within the game, namely the high price cars, for example within the first week there were cars for sale around 18million this is not achievable unless you grind credits in game non stop without interruption for around 12hours. This claim is dubious at best and is a dishonest claim.
- Bugs: The game had multiple bugs preventing progress through the game, some of these were introduced by the developer in their patch like the tyre bug.
- Bugs: On-line lobbies are far more likely to bug/glitch than to be successful, when trying to enter the National and Manufacturer races 9 of 10 of these encountered lobby bugs where the game would not play and instead everyone was trapped in the lobby. This also extends to normal lobbies where being stuck in the pits, being on the track alone despite other players being on the track and the complete absence of functionality around changing settings despite this being present in GT Sport.
- Economy is fundamentally broken: The ultra high price of cars combined with the low pay out of races is yet another way that "In-game purchases" are forced onto the player, this was also changed POST release meaning it was publicised, reviewed and marketed without this being made clear.
- Missing Features: Engine swaps were widely publicised and touted within the game, these are not present in the game at all.
- Access to the product: The game was down for more than 30hrs with zero communication from the developer until near the end of the outage.
/QUOTE
I will likely pick GT7 up in the future once the in game economy is corrected and a more complete and comprehensive single player has been added in addition to the basic multiplayer lobby functionality. I live in hope that this will be sorted and I can again buy the game.
Peace
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