Religion is contrived

[JacktheHat]

Mankind chose to rule themselves anyway, twice, first with Adam and Eve and second when Jesus was put to death, God hasn't interferred with man since Jesus death, that was prophesied he wouldn't right up until Armageddon.

So what you're saying is God gave up on mankind? How come he was so involved back in the days when science couldn't explain phenomena but now we can disprove things he can't be bothered? Coincidence?

Where things worse then than they have been since Christ died? Worse than the crusades? Worse than the two world wars (including the extermination of many thousand Jews)? Worse than Aids? Worse than the plight of African and Southern American nations? Worse than the pollution we have now? Worse than having a great big hole in the atmosphere? Worse than the twin towers?etc. etc. etc.



Oh, and Swift, you still haven't answered my question...

 

[Swift]

Oh, and Swift, you still haven't answered my question...

Yes, and?

 

[JacktheHat]

Yes, and?

What do you, not what the Bible (whichever version) or someone else has told you, think are God's responsibilities?

Any chance you're going to?

I'm just asking for your own opinion, not to prove the existence of God as you seem to think judging by previous replies. I just want to know what you expect from a superior being.

Your answer won't count towards the final exam.

 

[Swift]

Any chance you're going to?

I'm just asking for your own opinion, not to prove the existence of God as you seem to think judging by previous replies. I just want to know what you expect from a superior being.

Your answer won't count towards the final exam.

You're funny Jack. I see what you're doing. To be honest, you almost got me. But nope.

You're not worried about what I expect. No matter what I state, you'll simply say, "What about the Africans?" or "What about starving children?" or "What about exploited people in Southeast Asia?", "Why doesn't God keep his same responsibility with them as he does with you?"

Right...

 

[sicbeing]

You're funny Jack. I see what you're doing. To be honest, you almost got me. But nope.

You're not worried about what I expect. No matter what I state, you'll simply say, "What about the Africans?" or "What about starving children?" or "What about exploited people in Southeast Asia?", "Why doesn't God keep his same responsibility with them as he does with you?"

Right...

It really is a simple question, but I think you refuse to "fall for it" because you either dont know, or you know that you're wrong. To most people God is just someone to talk to, someone to ask for help, and someone who can send you to hell if you don't accept him.

 

[JacktheHat]

You're funny Jack. I see what you're doing. To be honest, you almost got me. But nope.

You're not worried about what I expect. No matter what I state, you'll simply say, "What about the Africans?" or "What about starving children?" or "What about exploited people in Southeast Asia?", "Why doesn't God keep his same responsibility with them as he does with you?"

Right...

Almost got you?

I'm trying to understand what you are saying but your simple refusal to answer a straight forward question makes me wonder if you, yourself, understand what you're saying...

 

[skicrush]

Worse than the plight of African and Southern American nations?

OK, I guess you've noticed that I've pretty much checked out since this constant bickering is obviously never going to end. But you have GOT to stop throwing South America under the bus with Africa. I lived in El Salvador for 2 years (96-98), and they are arguably the WORST OFF of all the Central and South American countries, except maybe Nicaragua. Their problems are in a completely different world than those of Africa. There is NO comparison. They do NOT starve (pretty hard to starve when a stupid gringo can eat his fill in wild fruit in any given day, any time of the year), there are child labor laws, and the factories aren't any worse than they were here after WWII. Do people get taken advantage of? Sure! But their governments crack down on it just like ours does. They are ALL Democracies now (more or less), and besides the drug war still going on in Colombia (which you'll note is about money and drugs), there isn't open warfare or revolution ANYWHERE on the entire American continent. I can think of at least 4 open rebellions or coup attempts in Africa in the last 4 months, besides the Sudan's massive problems and the "normal" starving people you don't even hear much about anymore.

You have no idea how ignorant it makes you sound. FYI, the movie Zorro was set in the 1800's, not the 1990's. (and it was California, not even Mexico!) They are two different worlds. S & C America are finishing out the industrial revolution and entering the digital age. Africa is stuck somewhere between the stone age and the cold war era. Honestly--you're worse than a "stupid American." And you're a journalist? Why don't you read a little about the world--I'll bet your writing improves.

 

[Swift]

It really is a simple question, but I think you refuse to "fall for it" because you either dont know, or you know that you're wrong. To most people God is just someone to talk to, someone to ask for help, and someone who can send you to hell if you don't accept him.

Actually, I've read Jack's posts and noticed the pattern. Even if I did give a straight "direct" answer. It wouldn't solve anything.

 

[JacktheHat]

OK, I guess you've noticed that I've pretty much checked out since this constant bickering is obviously never going to end. But you have GOT to stop throwing South America under the bus with Africa. I lived in El Salvador for 2 years (96-98), and they are arguably the WORST OFF of all the Central and South American countries, except maybe Nicaragua. Their problems are in a completely different world than those of Africa. There is NO comparison. They do NOT starve (pretty hard to starve when a stupid gringo can eat his fill in wild fruit in any given day, any time of the year), there are child labor laws, and the factories aren't any worse than they were here after WWII. Do people get taken advantage of? Sure! But their governments crack down on it just like ours does. They are ALL Democracies now (more or less), and besides the drug war still going on in Colombia (which you'll note is about money and drugs), there isn't open warfare or revolution ANYWHERE on the entire American continent. I can think of at least 4 open rebellions or coup attempts in Africa in the last 4 months, besides the Sudan's massive problems and the "normal" starving people you don't even hear much about anymore.

You have no idea how ignorant it makes you sound. FYI, the movie Zorro was set in the 1800's, not the 1990's. (and it was California, not even Mexico!) They are two different worlds. S & C America are finishing out the industrial revolution and entering the digital age. Africa is stuck somewhere between the stone age and the cold war era. Honestly--you're worse than a "stupid American." And you're a journalist? Why don't you read a little about the world--I'll bet your writing improves.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Go and do some research and then prove that I'm wrong...

...If you can.

 

[skicrush]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Go and do some research and then prove that I'm wrong...

...If you can.

I lived there for two years, Jack. How about you? I watch and read the LOCAL news IN SPANISH, besides BBC stuff. I know peolpe that work at your "sweat shops." And I maintain my position. How about you? What kind of research have YOU done?

Trust me--it is all but impossible to starve down there. All you're proving is that you are COMPLETELY unwilling to admit when you're wrong. Typical journalist.

 

[Dave A]

Of what, precisely?

What could they experience in a place where sin didn't exist, nothing killed anything else and they didn't need to do anything since it was all done for them?

What would you experience in 100 years of looking after animals, having a relationship with God being taught from God, cultivating the ground how to make shelters ect, thats all experience, they had 100 years of communication with God. Things wernt done for them either, they had to cultivate the ground, they had to build shelters, they had to prepare their food ect, God just gave them the knowledge.

So what you're saying is God gave up on mankind? How come he was so involved back in the days when science couldn't explain phenomena but now we can disprove things he can't be bothered? Coincidence?

God did not give up on mankind, mankind gave up on God, secondly although God doesn't interferre with how we rule ourselves he's still set up his kingdom for us, hardly giving up is it.

Where things worse then than they have been since Christ died? Worse than the crusades? Worse than the two world wars (including the extermination of many thousand Jews)? Worse than Aids? Worse than the plight of African and Southern American nations? Worse than the pollution we have now? Worse than having a great big hole in the atmosphere? Worse than the twin towers?etc. etc. etc..

Yep, things are worse now than they were befroe Jesus died, also fits in with bible prophesy, incidentally 1914 was about the year the bible said Satan would be cast down from heaven in exile having a great anger knowing he has a short time left, since 1914 it's got worse still, also part of bible prophesy.

 

[sicbeing]

-Bible Prophecy-

"Things will get worse!"

..... lol, come on. Even if I was around the time before christ or etc, I'd never say "oh things on earth will get better!"

-edit

even tho things are getting worse, they are also getting better, it all depends on how you look at the world.

 

[Dave A]

Nope, it actually describes in what ways things will get worse, how the number of wars will increase, the increased number of earthquackes, the increase in violence ect. If you go deep enough the bible even points out the year Satan was cast down fom heaven, hows that for prophesy. Not a single propehsy in the bible hasn't happened that should have by now, theres only a few left.

Technology is getting better, but the sate of the world is getting worse. The ammount the world is getting worse is far outweighing and advancments we make, we don't need new technology to feed the starving for example we already can, we just don't want to spend any money doing it.

 

[Famine]

God just gave them the knowledge.

I have the knowledge to speak Japanese.

Put me in a boardroom with 15 Japanese people speaking at me and I'm screwed.

Knowledge is NOTHING without experience. As most university students find when they apply for a job with their degree in their hands.


Their knowledge of animals can't have been too great either. Remember - no blood was spilled. Everything was immortal anyway - it was only after Eve ate a fruit from the Tree of Knowledge than death arrived on Earth (according to Swift) - so nothing needed looking after. They didn't need food or shelter - hell if the cats didn't need to eat the meat that they MUST eat, then it'd be a pretty weird logical step to think that Adam & Eve needed to eat (what with their being immortal thrown in).

Out of interest, didn't Eve for one second think "**** me! A talking snake!"?


Thread title: Religion is Contrived...

 

[Swift]

Out of interest, didn't Eve for one second think "**** me! A talking snake!"?


Thread title: Religion is Contrived...

Thanks Famine. I needed that. The serpent wasn't like a snake as we know it today until AFTER he decieved Eve.

BTW, nobody here is debating whether "religion" is contrived or not. We're talking about spirituality. That's a different subject altogether.

 

[Dave A]

I have the knowledge to speak Japanese.

Put me in a boardroom with 15 Japanese people speaking at me and I'm screwed.

Knowledge is NOTHING without experience. As most university students find when they apply for a job with their degree in their hands.

True, and they used the knowledge they got from God to do all the things they had to do like cultivating the ground, naming the animals, creating tools and hut's ect.

 

[PS]

True, and they used the knowledge they got from God to do all the things they had to do like cultivating the ground, naming the animals, creating tools and hut's ect.

So did the Egyptians 4000 years ago get knowledge from god to build the pyramids, 2000 years before Christ?

Or were they just lucky?

 

[Swift]

So did the Egyptians 4000 years ago get knowledge from god to build the pyramids, 2000 years before Christ?

Or were they just lucky?

Uh...well considering the hebrews were slaves during the time of the building of most of the pyramids...I seriously doubt it.

 

[Dave A]

So did the Egyptians 4000 years ago get knowledge from god to build the pyramids, 2000 years before Christ?

Or were they just lucky?

Guess what, thje Egiptians were descendants of Adam and Eve, knowledge gets passed on, and as mentioned just above the Israelites were slaves at the time of the Egyptian empire. And guess what, Adam and Eve knew god FIRST, it doesn't matter that the Egyptians were worshjiping false God's before Jesus, so were a lot of people by then, none of the false God's ever did anything though did they. For example they didn't show all the world powers of the future (the giant statue in Nebuchadnezars dream, interpreted by Daniel) that prophesy showed all the world powers that would follow on from Babylon through the Roman empire up to today. God even had the name of the person who would overthrow Babylon put in writing over 100 years before Babylon was beaten. It'd take a lot of luck to get all that right.

 

[Pako]

Thanks Famine. I needed that. The serpent wasn't like a snake as we know it today until AFTER he decieved Eve.

BTW, nobody here is debating whether "religion" is contrived or not. We're talking about spirituality. That's a different subject altogether.

💡 So was God's condemning snakes to forever crawl(can't really crawl, but slither really) on their bellies the first act of evolution that was documented?

 

[PS]

Uh...well considering the hebrews were slaves during the time of the building of most of the pyramids...I seriously doubt it.

The point wasn't in the Hebrew people, you claimed god gave them the knowledge to build huts and make food name animals etc., so are you arguing he tought them how to pile sticks but not build 300 ft temples of stone?

 

[Swift]

The point wasn't in the Hebrew people, you claimed god gave them the knowledge to build huts and make food name animals etc., so are you arguing he tought them how to pile sticks but not build 300 ft temples of stone?

That's like saying God gave man the knowledge for the Roman Collisium, tower of pisa, the Ifael tower or any other product of archetecture. BTW, I'm sure I spelled some of those incorrectly.

 

[PS]

That's like saying God gave man the knowledge for the Roman Collisium, tower of pisa, the Ifael tower or any other product of archetecture. BTW, I'm sure I spelled some of those incorrectly.

Right...(read on)

they used the knowledge they got from God to do all the things they had to do like cultivating the ground, naming the animals, creating tools and hut's ect.

That was 2006 years ago, ie. BC.

Now if Christ didn't exist back then, and the Egyptians were ruling 4000 years ago (2000 BC), how did they know how to build all of that when you claim that god taught man how to name animals, cultivate the earth and make a hut? The Egyptians made entire pyramids out of multi-tonne stones and they never worshipped a single god.

Guess what, thje Egiptians were descendants of Adam and Eve,

Guess what, don't talk to me like that again please. Oh, and uh, you don't know that for sure.

knowledge gets passed on,

Passed on to someone who existed before them? Don't think so.

and as mentioned just above the Israelites were slaves at the time of the Egyptian empire.

So?

And guess what, Adam and Eve knew god FIRST,

So many places I could go with this. I'll leave it alone.

it doesn't matter that the Egyptians were worshjiping false God's before Jesus, so were a lot of people by then, none of the false God's ever did anything though did they.

And "God" god did? What does he do, change the weather? Help someone overcome a tragedy, which hundreds of thousands of people do every day?

For example they didn't show all the world powers of the future (the giant statue in Nebuchadnezars dream, interpreted by Daniel) that prophesy showed all the world powers that would follow on from Babylon through the Roman empire up to today.

Well it appears your god just likes to spoil everything for everyone, now doesn't he? Maybe the Egyptians, or Chinese, or Budhist gods liked to keep the future hidden from their people so that they could learn and grow from it, hmm?

God even had the name of the person who would overthrow Babylon put in writing over 100 years before Babylon was beaten. It'd take a lot of luck to get all that right.

According to the bible. Which could have just said that after it happened he knew who it was. A 6 year old could have come up with that. Not to mention that noone can pin-point when certain things were written once they get past a certain age, so it could easily have been a fake made just to prove the existence of (a) God.

How do you know there isn't really an Anubis or Geb or Ra? What if you're actually the one worshipping the nonexistent god?

 

[Swift]

PS, Your argument isn't sound becuase you want us to defend what we said about the Bible without using the bible. Rather irrational.

So, I stopped reading after you said that the Egyptians were not decendants of Adam and Eve.

 

[PS]

PS, Your argument isn't sound becuase you want us to defend what we said about the Bible without using the bible. Rather irrational.

So, I stopped reading after you said that the Egyptians were not decendants of Adam and Eve.

Exactly. My response puts the existence of God right out the window, thus proving religion to be contrived.

 

[Swift]

Exactly. My response puts the existence of God right out the window, thus proving religion to be contrived.

No, Religion is contrived, man...you guys just don't hear it when I say that. But what does that have to do with the existence of God?

You were trying to prove a contradiction in the bible, but you you couldn't.

 

[PS]

No, Religion is contrived, man...you guys just don't hear it when I say that. But what does that have to do with the existence of God?

You were trying to prove a contradiction in the bible, but you you couldn't.

I was trying to prove a contradiction in what live4speed for speed said.

I agree I kind of jumped the boat on what I said, but there's been speak of us going off topic so I had to bring it back somehow.

 

[ZAGGIN]

its been a few days since i posted the **** rant, and i will apologise for my use of words in the opening line of my post, but i will not apologise for anything else.

i ranted on about god like that for one simple reason. throughout my youth, christianity was forced upon me. no, rammed down my throat. im sick of hearing about the fool, and i will take every opportunity to denounce god and everything that christians believe in. whether it be here or anywhere else.

For the record. I'm not trying to browbeat anyone into believing the Bible. Or in God or anything.
I believe. Not because my daddy did. Not because my Grand-daddy did. I believe because I've read/studied the Word. I believe because I've seen the power of God bring people thru, (myself included) some bad situations.

ive had many bad situations throughout my life, and god has not helped me once. if i do well, i praise myself, i dont stand before some wooden cross and pray. likewise if things are going bad, i dont run to church for inspiration, i search within myself and find the answers. god has no use here im afraid. self belief is my motto, forget about god.

i have read parts of the bible. but whilst imo, most of it is garbage, one book stood out over all the others. i particularly liked the story of elijah (is that how you spell it?) and the message it promoted. if the rest of the bible was like that, then it would be worth reading. instead its filled with tall stories and tales of retribution.
im never going to believe that seas were parted, or bushes caught alight or the fact that somehow jesus managed to feed five thousand starving people with only 5 loaves and 20 fishes or whatever. why must the bible rely on such ridiculous nonsense to prove itself?

Are you the Anti-Christ? Or are you atheist? Are you a Satanist? Do you follow Anton Szandor LeVay? Do you know what you're talking about? Do you realise how others perceive you to be someone trying desperately hard to sound smart, or an elitist at the very least?

i find that remark insulting. just because i do not believe in god, does not make me an anti-christ, a satanist, or anything else. i have christian values, but i am not a christian. i resent is the fact that because i dont believe in god, i am looked down upon by those that do. we are all going to the same place yunno - i'll see all you bible-bashers in heaven. or is there a sign outside the pearly gates that says 'christians only'?

let me tell you a story. i live in the uk, and when i was in school, we all had to attend morning assembly before the day started. we would sit there and sing hymns and say prayers etc. why we had to was never explained to me.
anyway. there was this girl who would never go into assembly. instead she would sit outside the hall on her own, and wait for the service to finish. afterwards she would go to her classes, and carry on her day like the rest of us.
she was always looked upon as an outsider or a freak, because the ordinary christian kid could not understand why she never attended assembly. i later found out that she was a jehovahs witness and because of the fact that she didnt believe in god, she was precluded from most of the schools activities.
on many occasions i would see her being picked on or bullied by 'christians' who would torment her over her faith. is that how god expects christians to act? i can imagine there would of been uproar if christians were treated the way she was.

christianity=Hypocrisy, plain and simple.

 

[Swift]

christianity=Hypocrisy, plain and simple.

To you, and that's really too bad. Sorry to hear you've been through all that.

 

[Pako]

ZAGGIN,

Why is it that God gets the blame when 'people' screw up? We're all human and capable and subject to human error. You did say kids right? Kids are mean. What about priests that sexually assault kids, must be God there to? Na, just a horney and sexually sick human. I'm sorry that bad things happened to you and I won't begin to guess. Maybe you had bad teachers in school? Christ's message was anything but forceful. He's there waiting, knocking at the door, He's not bashing it down with all the power of the universe.