Renault also considers F1 pullout

[Ardius]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8343221.stm

By Andrew Benson

Renault could become the fourth manufacturer to quit F1 in a year

Renault will consider pulling out of Formula 1 at an emergency board meeting in Paris on Wednesday.

The French car company will decide whether to remain in the sport with its own team, switch to simply being an engine supplier or quit altogether.

The news comes on the day that Toyota announced its decision to quit F1, becoming the third car company to leave the sport in the last 11 months.

Renault is not expected to make public its decision on Wednesday.

The company does not want to distract attention from a publicity event on Thursday at which president Carlos Ghosn will promote the company's efforts at introducing zero-emission vehicles.

The emergency board meeting will be attended by Renault F1 bosses Bob Bell and Jean-Francois Caubet, but they will not be allowed to take part in the debate about the team's future.

A Renault spokeswoman was unable to comment.

Renault have had their least competitive F1 season since 2001 and finished eighth out of 10 teams in the constructors' championship after Sunday's final race of the season in Abu Dhabi.

The company came under scrutiny for the team's involvement in the Singapore 2008 race-fixing scandal, in which they decided not to contest charges that they had asked Nelson Piquet Jr to crash to aid team-mate Fernando Alonso's bid for victory.

Motorsport's governing body the FIA gave Renault a ban from F1, suspended for two years, as punishment, while team bosses Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds were forbidden from attending FIA-sanctioned events.

Last month, Renault signed the highly-rated Polish driver Robert Kubica to lead their team in 2010 as a replacement for double world champion Alonso, who has moved to Ferrari.

Unsurprising and surprising at the same time. Unsurprising because many of us saw this coming. Surprising because they had already signed Kubica. Guess Robert must be wondering what he needs to do to find some good luck for a change

 

[PeterJB]

This is getting ridiculous! How many more teams are gonna pull out? At this rate we'll have an entirely new field next year!

 

[Ardius]

How stupid would that FOTA series look now if the same happened? It would be just McLaren and Ferrari in the end!

 

[Hun200kmh]

Press release from Ferrari. Written by an Agatha Christie fan

We want a different closing chapter


Maranello, 4 November 2009 - It seems like a parody of Agatha Christie's "Ten Little Indians", published in England for the first time in the year 1939, but reality is much more serious. Formula 1 continues loosing important parts: over the last 12 months Honda, BMW, Bridgestone and this morning Toyota announced their retirements. In exchange, if one could call it that, Manor, Lotus (because of the team of Colin Chapman, Jim Clark and Ayrton Senna, to name a few, there is hardly more than the name), USF1 and Campos Meta arrived. You might say "same-same", because it is enough if there are participants. But that's not entirely true and then we've got to see if next year we'll be really as many in Bahrain for the first starting grid of the 2010 season and how many will make it to the end of the season.

In reality the steady trickle of desertion is more the result of a war against the big car manufacturers by those who managed the sport, than the effects of the economical that affected Formula 1 over the last years. In Christie's detective novel the guilty person is only discovered when everybody else is dead, one after the other. Do we want to wait until this happens or should we write Formula 1's book with a different closing chapter?

 

[Famine]

How mightily unfortunate of them to choose:

Agatha Christie's "Ten Little Indians", published in England for the first time in the year 1939

given that the book wasn't called that until 1964... The original title... a little less "politically correct".

 

[Prince.M5]

Unsurprisingly. Very unsurprisingly!!! And no wonder that next year, should I say we could have a fully entirely new grid and the start of the new era of F1... Indipendent teams.

Renault has got some problems with their engine in terms of reliability so I guess if they pull out, they will pull out completely... Poor Kubica that has just been signed into the team next year

 

[Worst_Driver]

How stupid would that FOTA series look now if the same happened? It would be just McLaren and Ferrari in the end!

Without Renault, it will be that. I hope that they will stay. I'm very disspointed with toyota's withdraw. Kobayashi seems like a great driver.

 

[Ardius]

Unsurprisingly. Very unsurprisingly!!! And no wonder that next year, should I say we could have a fully entirely new grid and the start of the new era of F1... Indipendent teams.

Not particularly a "new" era, more like a welcome return to classic F1

Finally after more than 10 years, we get new small teams without huge backing behind them. Stewart was the last exciting small new team, I so miss the days of Jordan, Tyrrell, Ligier, Minardi, etc. When teams used to have a good eye for driver talent rather than the drivers being a particular nationality or backed by a manufacturer. Sure, they usually had one pay driver, but usually to pay for a decent first driver, most of which usually moved on to bigger teams after learning the ropes in a lower team.

 

[Pescara for GT5]

So if Toyota and Renault pull out, then BMW(or Qadback or whatever they call themselves) and who else come in.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Where I've previously said Formula One needs a balance between manfacturers and private teams, I've changed my mind. Formula One doesn't need manufacturers at all. They only bring trouble:

Ferrari - polarised fans worldwide with perceived bias towards them by the FIA
Mercedes - involved in the 2007 espionage scandal
Renault - the Singapore investigation, of course, and Britatore's leadership dgenerating into a culture of bullying, threats and intimidation
BMW - pushed for KERS, spent millions on it, then abandoned it and Formula One
Toyota - eight years without a single win; viewed Formula One as a marketing opportunity
Honda - abysmal two seasons, built two of the worst cars ever made; like Toyota, they were in it for the brand image
Spyker - barely lasted a year, continued the embarrassment of the Jordan team having new owners each season.

But if you look at the privateer squadrons:

Brawn - won both titles in maiden season
Williams - seven constructors' and nine drivers' titles and a thirty-year history to go with it
Jordan - went from newcomers to championship contenders in eight years, the fastest by anyone until 2009
Sauber - spent years in the sport, became known as a finder of new talent
Minardi - three hundred and forty five starts without a win, but gained massive fanbase as the underdog
Tyrrell - spent forty years on the Formula One gird

Now, I accept that not every privateer team has been legendary - Tom Walkinshaw ran Arrows into the ground, Alain Prost over-estimated the public's desire for a French team and Alex Shnaider was out of his dept before Midland even made the grid - but when they screw up, they're only ever their own worst enemies. When was the last time a privateer team did something as big and bad as the Singapore incdient, or the espionage case? And even if they did do them, how frequently does it happen? Almost never. Manufacturers have a shelf life of just a few years; private racing teams last decades. I believe that this is because, as racing teams, they exist purely to race. They don't have to worry about road car sales or budgets being approved by someone else: they can simply race, and that's what it should be about.

Formula One needs manufacturers for engines, but it doesn't need manufacturer teams.

 

[Pescara for GT5]

What about Brabham, and the first ever Constructors Champion, Vanwall, BRM, and is Red Bull considered a privateer team, because they look to be having a bright future ahead of them, also Cooper and Bennetton

 

[prisonermonkeys]

What about Brabham, and the first ever Constructors Champion, Vanwall, BRM, and is Red Bull considered a privateer team, because they look to be having a bright future ahead of them, also Cooper and Bennetton

I do believe all of those teams were privateers. The difference between a consructor and a manufacturer: "constructor" is simply another word for a team. A manufacturer is a team that is owned by a company that produces road cars, like Renault, Toyota, BMW and Ferrari. And the trend of manufacturers causing problems is only a recent phenomena.

 

[88c-v Racer]

then what is Mclaren/Mercedes, is it Mercedes' team with help from Mclaren or Mclaren's team with Mercedes engines?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

then what is Mclaren/Mercedes, is it Mercedes' team with help from Mclaren or Mclaren's team with Mercedes engines?

It's an unofficial works team. Mercedes has input and involvement, but the majority of the team is owned by the McLaren Automotive Group.

I think.

 

[The Outlaw]

Nm

 

[niky]

McLaren is a car manufacturer, isn't it? ... with about three models to their name, so far.

-

Red Bull is big money... it's not a manufacturer, but it's not exactly privateer... not when the corporation behind it is rich enough to sponsor two teams, the Air Race series and a zillion other extreme sports and athletes.

-

So...

After getting a mere slap on the wrist for the Piquet fiasco, they still pull out? I propose an extraordinary meeting of the WMSC to dock them all their points for the 2009 season.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[The Outlaw]

Why is Mclaren continually left out as a manufacturer?

How stupid would that FOTA series look now if the same happened? It would be just McLaren and Ferrari in the end!

Seriously

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

They don't have to worry about road car sales or budgets being approved by someone else: they can simply race, and that's what it should be about.

So what you're saying is that Briatore was pressured by upper management into the Singapore incident

 

[mPWRD]

Red Bull is big money... it's not a manufacturer, but it's not exactly privateer... not when the corporation behind it is rich enough to sponsor two teams, the Air Race series and a zillion other extreme sports and athletes.

True, but Red Bull acknowledges it as a marketing deal. They're whole emphasis is to make F1 "fun" instead of the stodgy, uber-competitive, cutthroat atmosphere before they joined - which is why they hired the guy who made Jordan into an appealing F1 team.

 

[Scaff]

Renault - the Singapore investigation deliberately causing an on-track accident to fix the outcome of a race, of course, and Britatore's leadership dgenerating into a culture of bullying, threats and intimidation and also being involved an espionage scandal.

Fixed.

It wasn't simply an investigation, they admitted to the whole thing, and while the punishment may have been mild they were also most certainly found guilty of having an entire cars data on the team servers (would of course have been fine had it been their car).


Scaff

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So what you're saying is that Briatore was pressured by upper management into the Singapore incident

No. But Briatore acted on their behalf. He was their representative. At the very least, they are guilty of not keeping their own people in check. But he still committed those acts in their name.

 

[Ardius]

Why is Mclaren continually left out as a manufacturer?

Well, technically, I guess because like Team Lotus and Scuderia Ferrari, its considered a seperate entity to the car company. This is because all 3 started as racing teams before manufacturers, so they have more reason to stay in F1 than a manufacturer thats the opposite way around.
Whereas the other manufacturers don't really seperate their operations like that, they just happen to own a team named after them or buy the right to re-name a team.

Thats what I guess is the reason people don't look upon them as traditional manufacturers.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

No. But Briatore acted on their behalf. He was their representative. At the very least, they are guilty of not keeping their own people in check. But he still committed those acts in their name.

It was sarcasm. But I can see how Renault threatening to pull out if there are no results could lead to people making unethical decisions in order to reach their goals.

 

[Pescara for GT5]

True, but Red Bull acknowledges it as a marketing deal. They're whole emphasis is to make F1 "fun" instead of the stodgy, uber-competitive, cutthroat atmosphere before they joined - which is why they hired the guy who made Jordan into an appealing F1 team.

Well if anything could make F1 "fun", I would leave it to a energy drink sponsorship, and Red Bull is very cool to their drivers, Brian Vickers has done interviews and the way he talks about Red Bull makes the team sound very fun.

 

[nissan tuner]

Good Ridance to all these Manufactures! Stick to buying small stocks in Teams and/or ONLY providing engines like Mercedes does.

If you really wanted this so-called "Brand Image", you wouldn't be scrapping with Mclaren, Brawn GP, Williams, Force India and Red Bull, you'd be fighting with Aston, Audi, Acura and Puegeot in the LMP class! And not having to spend over 100 Million USD every year to do so.

 

[Pescara for GT5]

Good Ridance to all these Manufactures! Stick to buying small stocks in Teams and/or ONLY providing engines like Mercedes does.

If you really wanted this so-called "Brand Image", you wouldn't be scrapping with Mclaren, Brawn GP, Williams, Force India and Red Bull, you'd be fighting with Aston, Audi, Acura and Puegeot in the LMP class! And not having to spend over 100 Million USD every year to do so.

I agree and you make a good point about LMP, but wouldn't a GT class be better for showcasing road vehicles.

 

[Ardius]

If you really wanted this so-called "Brand Image", you wouldn't be scrapping with Mclaren, Brawn GP, Williams, Force India and Red Bull, you'd be fighting with Aston, Audi, Acura and Puegeot in the LMP class! And not having to spend over 100 Million USD every year to do so.

You and I know that LM racing is not as popular nor as well covered as Formula 1 is. For a manufacturer to concentrate on LMP or GT class racing, they have to be gaining some kind of technological development advantage from it, such as improving engine efficiency or testing new fuels.
It will be cheaper, but it won't be of much use for marketing their brand, at least not on the scale of Formula 1 - where signing Fernando Alonso gets your team's name printed in newspapers around the world.

 

[yeti]

Not sure about that - pretty sure Audi gets a fair bit of recogniion for winning it X years in a row?!?!?

C.

 

[Tetradic]

Not sure about that - pretty sure Audi gets a fair bit of recogniion for winning it X years in a row?!?!?

C.

But that is mostly because their LeMans racing program has had a direct redefinition of the diesel engine development in their road cars, you know the product you and me can drive. It's as close to the old adage "Win on Sunday, drive on Monday" as a auto manufacturer can get in 2010.

 

[Ardius]

Not sure about that - pretty sure Audi gets a fair bit of recogniion for winning it X years in a row?!?!?

C.

But that is mostly because their LeMans racing program has had a direct redefinition of the diesel engine development in their road cars, you know the product you and me can drive. It's as close to the old adage "Win on Sunday, drive on Monday" as a auto manufacturer can get in 2010.

This.

Also, do you really believe any manufacturer expects to achieve the domination of Audi?
And you kind of miss the point that the drivers are what get the team publicity most of the time. I don't recall many people mentioning Alan McNish or Tom Kristensen when talking about commonly known racing drivers, it will vary from country to country, but rarely does endurance racing get much publicity in comparison to rally, touring cars, NASCAR, Formula 1, etc.

I would expect most people only know of Audi's achievements because of the Shell and Audi adverts. From my experience, everyone knows at least a handfull of F1 greats and at least 1 or 2 famous Formula 1 teams, who doesn't know of Michael Schumacher?
But ask people to name endurance drivers or teams and they will stuggle.

I guess I'm just trying to say that endurance racing does not really have any superstars and the human side of it is far reduced compared to other motorsports. Even though F1 is a team game, the drivers get a lot of spotlight and this helps the sport connect with the public. Whereas in endurance racing, the individual is even less essential.