Renault also considers F1 pullout

[prisonermonkeys]

Also, do you really believe any manufacturer expects to achieve the domination of Audi?

Peugeot made a pretty strong case for Audi having to at least fight for Le Mans vhictories this year ...

 

[mPWRD]

Peugeot made a pretty strong case for Audi having to at least fight for Le Mans vhictories this year ...

Unfortunately, Peugeot's Le Mans success does not translate into good production cars at all. Which is why they haven't really received that much recognition outside the die-hard motorsport world.

 

[niky]

Not sure about that - pretty sure Audi gets a fair bit of recogniion for winning it X years in a row?!?!?

C.

They're getting press now because they're using their LeMans program to promote their diesel engines... and no, the diesel program doesn't directly benefit their road diesels... rather, it's advances in their road diesel program that made the LeMans R10 possible, in the first place.

It's all marketing...

 

[Pescara for GT5]

Unfortunately, Peugeot's Le Mans success does not translate into good production cars at all. Which is why they haven't really received that much recognition outside the die-hard motorsport world.

In America, we don't hear about them outside of Video Games and Top Gear.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

They're getting press now because they're using their LeMans program to promote their diesel engines... and no, the diesel program doesn't directly benefit their road diesels... rather, it's advances in their road diesel program that made the LeMans R10 possible, in the first place.

It's all marketing...

That's as may be, but once upon a time, diesels were ugly, dirty things that no-one in their right mind would buy. Audi took that concept and applied it to the R10 and used it to show that diesels can work. Their success then worked towards changing the perceptions of diesel engines.

 

[Pescara for GT5]

That's as may be, but once upon a time, diesels were ugly, dirty things that no-one in their right mind would buy.

We American's love our big trucks with our ugly diesels, now I feel stupid, my parents have owned 3 old diesel trucks since I have lived with them, and I always liked the sound of them too.

 

[niky]

That's as may be, but once upon a time, diesels were ugly, dirty things that no-one in their right mind would buy. Audi took that concept and applied it to the R10 and used it to show that diesels can work. Their success then worked towards changing the perceptions of diesel engines.

After BMW entered the Paris Dakar with modern diesels and became competitive, right off the bat, with a brand new program and after the successful campaign of diesel cars in the 24 hour Nurburgring race?

Audi's R8 program was the most successful LMP program ever... winning a zillion consecutive titles. That the R10 would win off the bat was a given... no... it was expected... given that the engine would be good enough...

Then some genius at Audi figured out that the loopholes in the LMP class rules would allow them to run a much bigger engine with better turbos (variable geometry turbos, again, are outlawed for gasoline engines) if they entered a diesel... so they gambled. And won.

But it was a close thing... the diesel cars are quite heavy... so handling is an issue... they actually increased the minimum weight for LMP cars the year the R10 entered... and it was still overweight... but the fuel economy and the tremendous advantage in mid-range horsepower given by the extra displacement and the variable geometry turbos give them a huge edge over the gasoline cars, especially on the long straights of the Sarthe circuit.

I give them props for exploiting the loophole... and yes, before the Audi program, many people who didn't live in Europe didn't realize how good diesels were getting... but Audi is hardly alone at the forefront for diesel technology on road cars... BMW, Hyundai and Peugeot all have pretty good engine programs... BMW's 2.0 and 3.0 diesels, in particular, are pretty smashing units for street use, and their twin turbo 3-liter is a wonderful mill.

Still... I can't view the R10's tremendous success as anything more than a successful exercise in "green" marketing... stacking the deck to give diesel as much of an advantage as possible, to entice more diesels to run in the LeMans race and the LeMans series.

Same thing for diesel touring cars... in many series, diesels are allowed turbos where gasoline engines are not. Built to the same specs, a gasoline mill is still superior to a diesel mill over most of the rev range.. and will be faster over a single lap. Fewer pitstops alone will not be enough to overcome this deficit... if you lose ten seconds a lap but can run thirty laps on diesel opposed to twenty for gas... those extra ten laps will have to make up for a hundred second deficit... which they won't... given that most pitstops are only thirty to forty seconds, total...

Much respect to the capabilities of modern diesels... but in terms of racing... they're not equal to gasoline... not yet.

 

[Ardius]

^To bring all this back to my original point - such LMP programmes are not as publicly visible as Formula 1 is and so the manufacturers have fair reason to fight the likes of McLaren, Brawn and Force India because these teams are more well known than Pescarolo, TWR and Oreca.

 

[niky]

^To bring all this back to my original point - such LMP programmes are not as publicly visible as Formula 1 is and so the manufacturers have fair reason to fight the likes of McLaren, Brawn and Force India because these teams are more well known than Pescarolo, TWR and Oreca.

True. Which is why most people's idea of LMP is: "that's the one where the diesel Audi won, right?"

"What's a Pescarolo? Are those the ones with the hole in the middle?"

 

[Hun200kmh]

When I was a kid, F1 was known only by die-hard fans and manufacturers didn't care much about it. Teams were either the traditional ones (Lotus, McLaren, Ferrari, Brabham, Tyrrel, Ligier) or others with strange less-known names like Osella, Wolf, Hesketh, just to name a few.

What happened in F1 had no impact on manufacturers. These were mostly concerned with touring cars and, especially, Rally cars. I still remember reading about how the Citroen DS got his sales boosted by the victory at the Monte Carlo Rally.

Then came Renault with Jabouille, Arnoux and their Turbo engines and, from that moment on, big car manufacturers looked to F1 with a new, commercial interest.

Anyway, I must say I don't agree with the general consensus here that Formula 1 is the right choice for a manufacturer. It's true that F1 has a much larger audience, but I doubt people buy a Toyota or a BMW because they are in F1. But I do believe people are more inclined to buy BMWs and Audis and Peugeots and Seats after seeing all those adverts of "their car" in race liveries.

 

[Ardius]

Anyway, I must say I don't agree with the general consensus here that Formula 1 is the right choice for a manufacturer. It's true that F1 has a much larger audience, but I doubt people buy a Toyota or a BMW because they are in F1. But I do believe people are more inclined to buy BMWs and Audis and Peugeots and Seats after seeing all those adverts of "their car" in race liveries.

I don't particularly think its "right" but I can see where they find the marketability of F1 - there are many news stories written about F1 and therefore your company name is going to be mentioned a lot.
The more a name is mentioned, the more people remember it, the more people think of that particular make of car when considering a new car. Its not always about being direct, the key is to get people talking about or at least regularly reading about your company's name. They want their name to become connected with victory, speed, reliability but more importantly, they want it known, so much so that children are brought up hearing about the legend that is BMW just like I'm sure all of us grew up knowing Ferrari was a legendary marque.

I mean, Ferrari didn't get as well known as it is today from car adverts or Le Mans. McLaren and Mercedes-Benz also benefitted from being the rival to Schumacher and Ferrari.
McLaren has become especially well known nowadays in the UK because of Lewis Hamilton, as so have Brawn now because of Jenson Button. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same in other countries. Ferrari became of particular note for a time in the UK because of Nigel Mansell.

Personally I don't care about manufacturers in F1, its not exactly "better" with them in - they can be partially blamed for the exit of so many of the independent teams.

 

[Pupik]

McLaren is a car manufacturer, isn't it? ... with about three models to their name, so far.

It's fair to say McLaren made/makes road-going cars with their own name based on their previous racing successes, whereas many manufacturers use F1/motorsports to buttress their name, since they are already selling a product, usually in far greater numbers (Toyota, Honda, Renault, BMW) than McLaren or even Ferrari. Even in the early days of McLaren, they made racing cars first, none of the series they officially competed in required any homologation of a handful of road-going cars (although they did make some customer cars for Formula 5000).

Marques like Ferrari and Team Lotus bankrolled their car sales on racing success; they were some of the last to build primarily Grand Touring racing cars that could be driven on public roads. Obviously, that really doesn't exist anymore, since the technical gulf between practicality and sporting success cannot be easily bridged by regulations and/or safety on both sides.

I've always felt that F1 is too complicated for manufacturers, as it is a dead-end for making technology that may not see the light of day in road cars for 20 years, if at all. Yes, it does serve as a test bed, but for cars that share little to no appearance nor purpose towards road-going vehicles in everyday use (and most weekends, too).

It's only for marketing, at this point: I do not think even Ferrari gains another buyer because they won another Contructor's Championship.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Interesting article from Will Buxton on potential Renault buy-out:

The Gravity of Renault's Situation

Back in Abu Dhabi I had a rather interesting chat with a colleague regarding BMW-Sauber and the Qadbak deal which, as we now know, was ultimately doomed to failure. Nobody ever really gave the Qadbak buyout a chance of working out, the involvement of Russell King stamping enormous warning signs and attaching blaring alarm bells all over it to anyone in the F1 paddock.

My colleague however suggested that there was another reason the deal wouldn’t come off, and it had to do with the diminutive but colossally powerful supremo of the sport, one Bernard Charles Ecclestone. Bernie, said my source, was fuming that his preferred choice of Sauber-saviours had lost out in the bidding process to Qadbak. It wasn’t the fact that nobody trusted Qadbak, it was more the fact that Bernie trusted someone else.

Bernie’s apparent choice of BMW saviours was Gravity, a management firm of pan-European reach based in Luxembourg which has on its books not only a few racing teams under the Gravity Racing International banner, but a number of pretty nifty drivers. GP2 hotshot Jerome d’Ambrosio is one such driver, as is Chinese racer Ho-Pin Tung, who received a last-minute call-up to take part in the rookie F1 test this week for Renault.

It is Tung’s last-minute call-up that has kicked off rumours surrounding Gravity, with Swiss Publication Motorsport Aktuell claiming that the firm is in talks with Renault over a potential take-over.

Now, if we assume that Bernie Ecclestone is backing Gravity’s attempts to make a move into F1, that he trusts them and believes they have the finances to do a proper stand-up job of taking over a team, then these reports need to be treated pretty seriously.

We know that Renault is wavering in its commitment to Formula 1 in the long term , with the manufacturer’s President Carlos Ghosn not doing anything to silence the rumours of a Renault pull-out with his recent comments that never mind F1 being important to Renault, he doubted it would remain important to anybody if it didn’t address a few environmental issues. Not the words of someone planning to plough money into the sport and give their new signing Robert Kubica a car worthy of his talents. Not the words of a man hoping to hang around in the sport, one would assume.

Over the last few weeks we’ve therefore seen a few different rumours over potential suitors. David Richards of Prodrive was in Abu Dhabi and seemed to spend some time hanging around the Renault part of the paddock. Was he interested in making a move for the team? The chat at the time was he’d be interested in a share option for 2010 before a full buyout in 2011, but it was never confirmed.

Also believed to be an interested party is Megafon, Renault F1’s Russian mobile telecoms sponsor. With Vitaly Petrov finishing runner-up in GP2 this year the Russian is hot property and with a brace of government backed Russian companies behind him is a favourite for promotion to F1 in 2010. No doubt the chance of him racing for a Russian team would be a dream for Russian sponsors, and Megafon remains linked with a take-over of Renault F1.

Tung’s run for Renault this week however has been met with much interest in the usually disinterested Chinese market. Motorsport Aktuell’s report suggests that Tung is only making the test run to try and bring some Chinese money into Gravity’s hands for a take-over of the Renault F1 Team. Gravity, says the publication, is linked with a venture capital firm named Mangrove, through which the team purchase would be made.

So is this Gravity thing serious? To be honest, there are enough factors pointing positively towards it to tell me it could be.

Gravity has taken on Eric Boullier, long time stalwart of the DAMS outfit, one of the most successful racing teams in the world at all levels of competition. As DAMS Team Manager he oversaw the team’s many successes over the past decade, but quit at the end of the 2009 season to move over to Gravity. Having achieved championship success in A1GP and GP2, why would Boullier have quit a well paid and high profile job unless there was a step up for him? And where does one step up to from GP2 other than F1?

I spoke to Boullier at the GP2 finale in Portimao when Flavio had first been booted from Renault and the Frenchman’s name had first been linked with the vacant Renault F1 Team Boss slot.

“There’s been no direct contact,” he told me, “but a couple of indirect ones. I know my name was put on a list within some talks by them and obviously if tomorrow somebody is doing direct contact I would be pleased to speak to them. It is Formula 1 and it’s a different world to GP2. I would consider it a lot if such an opportunity was offered to me.”

Could that indirect contact have been through Gravity, for whom he had pledged to work in the future at the end of his DAMS contract?

There’s another factor in the Gravity situation as well. The company recently signed up Jacques Villeneuve, who raced for Gravity in the Spa 24 Hours in a Mosler MT900R partnered by… Ho-Pin Tung! JV was to be seen nowhere but hanging around BMW-Sauber over the last few races of 2009, or at least for as long as the Gravity boys were negotiating the sale of the team. What odds that the eagle eyes in Enstone see a familiar Canadian knocking on their door anytime soon?

If these reports are true, Renault could be about to get the bailout for which its chiefs are desperate. A Gravity buyout could keep the team in F1, give it a young, passionate and hugely talented new Team Principal in Eric Boullier, a brace of talented young testers along the lines of d’Ambrosio and Tung, and the cherry on the cake… Jacques Villeneuve in an incredible return to the F1 cockpit to partner Robert Kubica in 2010.

Sound bonkers? Add up the component parts and it’s not as mad as one might at first assume. And with the way this winter is already panning out, it really isn’t the craziest suggestion out there.

 

[TheCracker]

Interesting. When i was in Jarama last month watching the Superleague Formula final, Ho-Pin Tung (racing for Galatasaray) was pretty impressive. I think he won the second race after getting involved in a first turn accident in the first. He wasn't as impressive as some but he didn't disgrace himself in such a powerful car as some who move up through the formulas do.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well, he's testing today. Right now, I would imagine.

But I don't think he's an option for next year; not unless he really pulls a rabbit out of his helmet in testing. If this is indeed true - and there's a whole lot of coincidences (I wouldn't normally call them that, but I haven't got a better word) on such a scale that i becoms hard to disregard it as fluff - then a lot of it is going to depend on who is in it with Lopez, assuming he's the point-man. If MegaFon is in on it, I'd watch for Vitaly Petrov, or possibly even Mikhail Aleshin (if Campos or Sauber get to Petrov first). But if not, I doubt he's an option. And there's still talk of Kamui Kobayashi joining the team with Panasonic backing, which would be a huge boost. At the same time, a lot is riding on the level of investment; if Gravity (I'll call them that for now) buy out the team entirely - or at least have a controlling share - then Robert Kubica might become a free agent.

And who knows what will happen if the suggestion that Dave Richards could make a play for it is the situation we get (though I'd say Gravity is looking stronger than his potential for a bid - it makes far mroe sense).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

James Allen reporting news from L'Equipe: that Renalt are on the way out, with their mantle to possibly be picked up by Prodrive:

Renault on point of quitting F1: deal with Prodrive under study

Renault is working out a plan to leave Formula 1 before the start of next season, according to L’Equipe newspaper in France.

A team has been charged by Renault president Carlos Ghosn with making a study into the possibility of striking a deal with Prodrive’s David Richards to take the team on.

Ghosn made some uncomplimentary remarks about F1 recently, claiming that it was drifting out of relevance, with the challenge for car makers in the 21st century being all about ecology and sustainability. Renault recently launched four new electric models onto the market.

According to L’Equipe, Renault Sport president Bernard Rey is leading the work to find an exit strategy while Ghosn has been meeting F1 commercial supremo Bernie Ecclestone a lot recently.

Richards was in Abu Dhabi and indicated that he was interested in working with a team to restructure for the new-look F1 with slimmed down workforces, along the lines of the Brawn and Force India models. Some of the bigger teams are going to have to lose a significant number of the workforce to fit within the resource restriction agreement and slim the travelling race team down to 45 people, roughly the number Force India was taking last season. This takes considerable expertise.

Richards will be looking for a deal which involves the minimum spend on acquisition. According to L’Equipe, Richards has a second tier manufacturer behind him, looking to make an impression on a global scale through F1. Given the increasing globalisation of F1 teams, with a US team and a Malaysian team joining the circus next year, I wonder whether it might possibly be one of the Korean brands, something Ecclestone would be likely to encourage as he seeks to push the sport into new markets. There is a Korean Grand Prix on the calendar next season.

“We will announce something the day we have something to announce,” said a Priodrive spokesman yesterday. “Prodrive had its candidature turned down by the FIA for 2010, but would be ready to engage with F1 as long as it could be competitive and the business is viable.”

There is a suggestion that part of the incentive for Richards is to relocate his Prodrive business, sell the factory in Banbury and the Renault deal would allow him to move to much larger state of the art premises with built in wind tunnel, CFD department and far better facilities.

As for engines, as I wrote here last week, Renault will continue to supply engines for 2010 and it is not hard to imagine that this arrangement would continue until the end of 2012 when the engine formula is set to change – ironically to a more environmentally friendly formula, no longer based on engine capacity but on fuel efficiency – precisely the kind of thing Renault says is important for F1.

However Red Bull boss, Christian Horner, has said that Renault wants some assurances on engine parity before committing. It is not yet confirmed that his team will use the Renault engine next year, even though it appears on their entry in the FIA entry list. It depends on what steps are taken to equalise the engines, as the FIA has indicated that this year it should be rounded down rather than rounded up and it is up to the teams to decide among themselves how that should be done,

“I think it depends on what’s done with the engine regulations moving forward in terms of parity,” said Horner. “The teams have decided that the engine should not be a performance differentiator under the frozen rules. I think it’s vital, not just in the case of Renault, but in the case of all the engine manufacturers, that a solution is found.”

Think what you will of James Allen the commentator, but I find that James Allen the print journalist is actually one of the more insightful and intelligent people in the paddock. He doesn't just print rumour and supposition the way the Sawards of the world will, he generally backs things up.

 

[Ardius]

Renault are confirmed now, with a deal done apparently. Still no idea who with yet though:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8407138.stm

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It sounds like Lopez won out, or someone no Dave Richards at the least.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Renault have called a press conference for some time today to announce their plans. According to James Allen, Gerard Lopez has purchased 75% of the team, gets Renault's base of operations for nothing and Renault engeins for two years. The team will compete under the Renault name in 2010, but there's no word on what will happen after that. Renault are said to have chosen Lopez because they don't want to spend money on shutting the operation down, and thy don't have the budget to continue racing.

I think this might actually be a good thing, better than Prodrive. Lopez was an early investor in Skype; it's where he made his money and his name. With Formula One looking to finally capitalise on new media, Lopez could introduce the digital realm to the pit lane much sooner than the teams could on their own.

 

[Ardius]

]
I think this might actually be a good thing, better than Prodrive. Lopez was an early investor in Skype; it's where he made his money and his name. With Formula One looking to finally capitalise on new media, Lopez could introduce the digital realm to the pit lane much sooner than the teams could on their own.

Erm, I seem to be missing something here, how is an investor introducing digital ideas?

Didn't FOTA only last week decide to investigate and discuss improving their digital presence along with the combined launch day?

I also don't see where an investor is such a great kind of person to have around rather than a successful race team owner like Dave Richards. The sport thrives on teams who exist purely for racing, not those trying to make a quick name for themselves.
This was a decision made between the Renault board and certain elements in the FIA and FOM. Its been said the actual team wanted to go with the Prodrive offer. Richards would only have offered an amount he felt respectable for what he was getting and how competitive he felt he could be. Lopez more than likely offered more money.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I must say I love the ELMS Aston Martins so I won't complain

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Erm, I seem to be missing something here, how is an investor introducing digital ideas?

Lopez invested in Skype - he's got connections to the IT industry tat could find applications within Formula One. Like live streaming of races.

Didn't FOTA only last week decide to investigate and discuss improving their digital presence along with the combined launch day?

They did. Lopez is, possibly, one person they could look into.

I also don't see where an investor is such a great kind of person to have around rather than a successful race team owner like Dave Richards. The sport thrives on teams who exist purely for racing, not those trying to make a quick name for themselves.

Lopez is an investor who has already made a name for himself - he's worth over a billion dollars.

This was a decision made between the Renault board and certain elements in the FIA and FOM. Its been said the actual team wanted to go with the Prodrive offer. Richards would only have offered an amount he felt respectable for what he was getting and how competitive he felt he could be. Lopez more than likely offered more money.

It's Renault's team. They have every right to sell it on to whoever they wish.

 

[Ardius]

Thats quite a jump you're making there, I'm not so convinced that just because an investor took a risk on Skype means he will be the messiah of F1 in the digital age.....sure he probably has connections but its not like USF1 bringing Chad Hurley on board is it?
I don't really see the connection either to how it benefits Renault as a race team.

You can have a name in the world and you can have a name in F1. Lots of money and business success has never meant a long future in F1, people are attracted to F1 for the publicity more than anything and the money that comes with it. Even Branson, the most well known billionaire entrepreneur, can't stop himself. Does that mean Manor is going to be on the grid in 2011? No it doesn't, Branson and Lopez and so on are only going to be around while it benefits them, if the results don't come, they don't stay. Prodrive would be much more likely to stay through bad seasons (just one look at WRC says it all).

And I didn't say Renault couldn't do what they like with their team, but I am saying the team clearly didn't think Lopez was the best offer. The team will want to live on and be successful, Renault will purely want a get-out fast but with the least damage solution. So I contest the idea that Lopez is a "better thing to happen" than Prodrive, especially for the future of the team.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Thats quite a jump you're making there, I'm not so convinced that just because an investor took a risk on Skype means he will be the messiah of F1 in the digital age.....sure he probably has connections but its not like USF1 bringing Chad Hurley on board is it?

I never said Lopez would be a godsend, only that he could be one source of possible solutions.

 

[Ardius]

I never said Lopez would be a godsend, only that he could be one source of possible solutions.

Yes, but you are or were stating it was a better thing for Formula 1 than Prodrive, which I disagree with. The implication is therefore he must bring something impressive to the table.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

What does Prodrive have? Zero open-wheel experience is what: they've run cars in the WRC, Le Mans and BTCC, but they've never tried their hand at open-wheel racing. The Aston Martin name? They haven't been in F1 for fifty years, have just ten starts and six finishes to their name and zero championship points. Gulf as a sponsor? That's a pretty poor reason for getting them in if it's the only reason why they should be brought in. Dave Richards? He's only got three years' experience running a team. And let's not forget Prodrive's still-born attempt to get onto the 2008 grid ...

In short, I think the idea of a Prodrive F1 team is a little over-rated.

 

[Ardius]

And I think you are understating their achievements. Before they ran WRC and Le Mans they had no experience in either. Its not like BTCC is a feeder series into WRC is it now? Same goes for Le Mans. Not to mention their reign of BAR from 2001-2004...and remind me which way the team went? Success has to start somewhere, and Prodrive's record speaks for itself, almost instant success in all championships they have entered.

Show me how this is being over-rated? There's a good reason they are the popular vote for a new entry into F1, far more than the likes of Lola and Dallara are.

The Aston Martin name doesn't even come into it - neither does Gulf. Sure, some fans have made some nice mock-ups, but that doesn't mean everyone thinks it will be an AMR team and will have Gulf livery and nor does this mean the team is over-rated. Are we going to assume they will run Subaru engines and 555 sponsorship too? Or BMW engines?
Richards wouldn't use that name unless it made sense, as he has said himself. The entry has always been referred to as Prodrive and any re-naming as Aston Martin has been pure speculation.

Oh and I'm pretty sure you full well know the background to the 2008 entry.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

French website ToileF1 claims Renault is likely to run their oldyellow/black livery for 2010. I hope it's not that God-awful thirtieth anniversary one ...

Oh and I'm pretty sure you full well know the background to the 2008 entry.

Even if the Ecclestones and the Mosleys of this world are to blame for not getting the customer chassis legalised, that does not completely exonerate Prodrive. Dave Richards made it clear from the beginning that he wanted a customer chassis and that it was the only way he was going to make the grid. He barely even considered his other options, and he had no fall-back plan. If that was his grand scheme to field a team, he shouldn't have been given the grid entry. And there was worse in store: Prodrive beat something like twenty-one other applicants to the grid. This year, there were two more places up for grabs, but only fifteen applicants. Most of them did not apply to the 2008 grid the way Prodrive did. Richards' failure to make it to Melbourne in 2008 simply reaffirmed the belief that it is too difficult for new teams to succeed in the sport.

Banning customer chassis was the right thing to do. When any newcomer can buy a Ferrari or a McLaren and be instantly competitive, everyone is naturally going to do it. Customer chassis were one step short of making Formula One a spec racing series.

 

[Ardius]

French website ToileF1 claims Renault is likely to run their oldyellow/black livery for 2010. I hope it's not that God-awful thirtieth anniversary one ...
Even if the Ecclestones and the Mosleys of this world are to blame for not getting the customer chassis legalised, that does not completely exonerate Prodrive. Dave Richards made it clear from the beginning that he wanted a customer chassis and that it was the only way he was going to make the grid. He barely even considered his other options, and he had no fall-back plan. If that was his grand scheme to field a team, he shouldn't have been given the grid entry. And there was worse in store: Prodrive beat something like twenty-one other applicants to the grid. This year, there were two more places up for grabs, but only fifteen applicants. Most of them did not apply to the 2008 grid the way Prodrive did. Richards' failure to make it to Melbourne in 2008 simply reaffirmed the belief that it is too difficult for new teams to succeed in the sport.

Banning customer chassis was the right thing to do. When any newcomer can buy a Ferrari or a McLaren and be instantly competitive, everyone is naturally going to do it. Customer chassis were one step short of making Formula One a spec racing series.

You seem to missing the point entirely, Richards had no reason to believe he couldn't use a customer chassis at the time, the FIA had told him he could right until they turned around.
He didn't want to go down the route of producing his own chassis because it would take a lot longer to develop the infastructure and resources and wouldn't be as certain for success. He probably didn't have the budget nor the resources to expand his team in that way.
Not to mention the backhander he got afterwards when Toro Rosso were allowed special permission to use customer chassis through a loophole.

If you were told 100% certain you could use something and any plan B would be too expensive and uncertain, would you really use your plan B at the same time? I think not. If the plan B was so easily done, why would he want a customer chassis in the first place? Its obviously because plan B is just not possible.

Also, its not like he hid this fact, if you're going to blame him for not planning ahead, then blame the FIA for not researching the entry properly when it was always stated he intended to use a customer chassis. Just like this year he made clear his intention to use Mercedes engines. If the FIA picked his entry over many others, its because they thought it was the best, not because he said he could make his own chassis.

It seems to me you just want to find any way possible to oppose the Prodrive entry just because it appears to the popular team. I've seen similar arguments from you on other forums and its always been the same - has Richards done something to your family or something?

As for customer chassis, I somewhat disagree, has Toro Rosso been dominant when Red Bull has? No. Did it pose a problem in the past when March, Dallara, Lola, Brabham, Lotus and Reynard use to sell chassis to many teams? No.
I agree that teams should have a hand in producing their own chassis, but for new teams its far cheaper and intelligent to use a proven chassis to get started. The rule should be that after 1 or 2 seasons a team has to make their own chassis, then we would drop costs further and allow new teams to build up their team in a more sensible way. It would allow teams to be put together later too and hence perhaps more applicants. Or make it so teams can only use customer chassis that are 1 year old, or both rules.
This model is technically already in use with Campos, as they outsourced to Dallara while they build up their resources, allowing their first season to be far cheaper and hopefully more reliable.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

As for customer chassis, I somewhat disagree, has Toro Rosso been dominant when Red Bull has? No. Did it pose a problem in the past when March, Dallara, Lola, Brabham, Lotus and Reynard use to sell chassis to many teams? No.

Jaime Alguersuari and Sebastien Buemi aren't nearly as good as Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber.

The thing about Toro Rosso is that they don't get upgrades the way Red Bull do. Vettel and Webber received a new aero package with double diffuser at Silverstone, but Toro Rosso had to wait until the Hungarian Grand Prix to get their hands on it. And with their high rate of driver turnover - Toro Rosso drivers are essentially being groomed for Red Bull race seats, not to mention frequent mid-season replacements - they can't rightly compete on equal terms.

Just because it hasn't been a problem in the past doesn't mean it can't be a problem in the future.