Rewind feature.

[machschnel]

I don't buy the argument that having rewind offline makes drivers online (where they couldn't use it) worse.

I think the quality of online drivers would improve with the addition of rewind. Learning how to go around a track is somewhat important.....

 

[Samus]

I think the quality of online drivers would improve with the addition of rewind. Learning how to go around a track is somewhat important.....

You could debate it that way for sure but certainly having played Forza 2 online (no rewind) and then 3 & 4 online with rewind there was no clear difference in bad drivers.

 

[Screbz]

Rewind features are really just handicaps. It takes away a certain type of intensity to a race when you can just fly off track knowing, "ok round 2, lets make this one count!"

I can't lie, I use it in games where it's included but that's because those games have the ability to have the driver completely RUIN their chances based off of its physics.

Dirt 3 for instance is just itching for you to get caught in a ditch and bounce out of it fender less and broken.

Forza Horizon has random cars coming at you outta no where.

Forza 4 has unpredictable AI who surprisingly have a tendency to cause you to spin out more often than not.

Gran Turismo 5 does have moments when I wish I could rewind but they are few and far from each other. It's not because I'm some "all powerful racing god" but because the way Gran Turismo handles feels rather rigid and static, and predictable.

I don't thing GT6 should include a rewind feature based off of how it wouldn't add any appeal to new people and create a stigma between those who do and don't use it.

Except in NASCAR races, the AI in those always spin me out and are like perfectly planted tanks on rails. Hate those things. Spin me out every time I try and over take first. I'd love a rewind for that.

 

[shadynader]

Rewind takes away consequence and, for me at least, takes away from the gaming experience. The sense of achievement and concentration required is lowered somewhat when available. If included in GT6 I would like it to be either optional on or off and/or at the very least, a set number per race.

Also, on a more social aspect, friends who do not use it should be rewarded/distinguishable from friends who have used it in some way. Make of that what you will but with my friends, whether it be on the football pitch, golf course, playstation or chatting up the local talent at the bar, the competitive nature is always there. I don't want Johnny CODface picking up Turismo because he's bored of stabbing people only to complete more of the game than myself in less time and then bragging about it.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Also, on a more social aspect, friends who do not use it should be rewarded/distinguishable from friends who have used it in some way. Make of that what you will but with my friends, whether it be on the football pitch, golf course, playstation or chatting up the local talent at the bar, the competitive nature is always there. I don't want Johnny CODface picking up Turismo because he's bored of stabbing people only to complete more of the game than myself in less time and then bragging about it.

Luckily if you think their bragging is unwarranted you could challenge them to an online race in the same cars. I feel that will settle issues with bragging rights.

I don't see other people finishing a game in less time than I do to be an issue, to be honest. Regardless, there will always be someone out there with more time to spend grinding through a game than you, so why let it bother you?

 

[shadynader]

Luckily if you think their bragging is unwarranted you could challenge them to an online race in the same cars. I feel that will settle issues with bragging rights.

I don't see other people finishing a game in less time than I do to be an issue, to be honest. Regardless, there will always be someone out there with more time to spend grinding through a game than you, so why let it bother you?

It doesn't bother me at all on a level playing field. If I am beaten, I am man enough to take it. Also I didn't say if they put more time in than me they don't deserve to be ahead, I said quite the opposite.

 

[FosterG]

Don't see the problem as an option tbh.
Cant be used in multiplayer only in single player.
Who are we to tell individuals how to play their game.

I remember certain backlashes against 24 hr saves being introduced. This is a similar argument.

👍👍

 

[thelvynau]

If there was a option to turn it off then it could work.

Rewind is perfect if you want to practice a track and want to make a few approaches to a corner without having to finish the lap.

 

[HKS racer]

I have an idea for you instead of the rewind feature:
- Remove all aids, no TC, no ABS except the cars that have them IRL
- Remove restart button, no way to restart races and championships
- Damages always on, no way to turn them off
- Realistic damages and mechanical issues: engine blows, suspension failures, exploding tyres, gearbox failures etc
- If you crash you are out of the race and you have to pay to fix your car
- If you total your car there's no way to fix it, you lost it forever
- Your reputation go down if you crash too much
- You can't enter some races without proper license and reputation

- And.. Your PS3 automatically turn off for an hour if you crash at more than 250 km/h.

 

[thelvynau]

I have an idea for you instead of the rewind feature:
- Remove all aids, no TC, no ABS except the cars that have them IRL
- Remove restart button, no way to restart races and championships
- Damages always on, no way to turn them off
- Realistic damages and mechanical issues: engine blows, suspension failures, exploding tyres, gearbox failures etc
- If you crash you are out of the race and you have to pay to fix your car
- If you total your car there's no way to fix it, you lost it forever
- Your reputation go down if you crash too much
- You can't enter some races without proper license and reputation

- And.. Your PS3 automatically turn off for an hour if you crash at more than 250 km/h.

Uhhhhh im not sure what to say about that.

 

[ShiftingGears]

It doesn't bother me at all on a level playing field. If I am beaten, I am man enough to take it. Also I didn't say if they put more time in than me they don't deserve to be ahead, I said quite the opposite.

But that doesn't answer my question - why do you care if someone else uses rewind?

 

[Samus]

But that doesn't answer my question - why do you care if someone else uses rewind?

Because apparently they would brag to him that they completed more of the game than him whilst using rewind. I'm wondering if him and his friends are 9.

 

[shadynader]

But that doesn't answer my question - why do you care if someone else uses rewind?

I don't care to be honest, use it all you like.... I might use it myself if I am not concentrating or mindless grinding or even a car I cannot keep on track if need be. There is no shame in using rewind I use it a lot on F1 when using my pad, I was saying FOR ME it takes away some of the satisfaction of the game.

The other point I was making was if you do not use it I think you should be rewarded more in game. Kind of like on Forza where you get more points for less aids or something along those lines.

Because apparently they would brag to him that they completed more of the game than him whilst using rewind. I'm wondering if him and his friends are 9.

I am not the one who jumps from thread to thread insulting people for no reason other than to feel better about myself Simon. The only thread I have seen you actually add something relative and reasonable is the pcars thread and I suspect that is only because of a deluded feeling of self importance.

As commented by others, you rarely add anything to the conversations other than being pedantic, pessimistic and/or insulting. I am not the one who needs to grow up here mate go an take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself what you want to do with your life. 👍

 

[LeMansAid]

I have an idea for you instead of the rewind feature:
- Remove all aids, no TC, no ABS except the cars that have them IRL
- Remove restart button, no way to restart races and championships
- Damages always on, no way to turn them off
- Realistic damages and mechanical issues: engine blows, suspension failures, exploding tyres, gearbox failures etc
- If you crash you are out of the race and you have to pay to fix your car
- If you total your car there's no way to fix it, you lost it forever
- Your reputation go down if you crash too much
- You can't enter some races without proper license and reputation

- And.. Your PS3 automatically turn off for an hour if you crash at more than 250 km/h.

I would have extreme love and extreme hatred for moments in the game, but possibly love the game as a whole more than any other.

 

[Topsu]

The 'rewind' feature should be included in race replays, but not in races.
I don't want to replay the whole 'video' just because I missed a place for a good photo!

Second post nailed what 'rewind' should be, but there's no way PD ever gets these little details right. Not having to watch the whole video to get to a certain point, not having to browse all the way back to main menu if you want to change car, these king of things aren't interesting to PD. They just want that headlight bulb right.

 

[LeMansAid]

Second post nailed what 'rewind' should be, but there's no way PD ever gets these little details right. Not having to watch the whole video to get to a certain point, not having to browse all the way back to main menu if you want to change car, these king of things aren't interesting to PD. They just want that headlight bulb right.

Or have they just not put a name to it yet? p-spec for watching in real time to take photographs? Or is it the spectator sim component? ie. spec-spec?

 

[Dhalism]

I have an idea for you instead of the rewind feature:
- Remove all aids, no TC, no ABS except the cars that have them IRL
- Remove restart button, no way to restart races and championships
- Damages always on, no way to turn them off
- Realistic damages and mechanical issues: engine blows, suspension failures, exploding tyres, gearbox failures etc
- If you crash you are out of the race and you have to pay to fix your car
- If you total your car there's no way to fix it, you lost it forever
- Your reputation go down if you crash too much
- You can't enter some races without proper license and reputation

- And.. Your PS3 automatically turn off for an hour if you crash at more than 250 km/h.

Yes please. Isn't that ultimately what were looking for in a sim game? Immersion as comeplete as could be?

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Yes please. Isn't that ultimately what were looking for in a sim game? Immersion as comeplete as could be?

Exactly. It's still a game at the end of the day, so no, that's not my defenitiom of complete immersion. I don't want the inconvient realities of racing in real life to appear in the game and get in the way of what I buy racing games to do: to actually race and have fun.

 

[MeanElf]

Exactly. It's still a game at the end of the day, so no, that's not my defenitiom of complete immersion. I don't want the inconvient realities of racing in real life to appear in the game and get in the way of what I buy racing games to do: to actually race and have fun.

If those were options akin to a difficulty level then I'd be very happy to have them in GT6 and onwards. I've long wished for the heavy damage option to be available in A-spec as well.

Players choice - best way of all.

Rewind needs to be in the playbacks though, I agree with that wholeheartedly.

 

[Earth]

I was playing Tomb Raider recently and it had a "Survival Instincts" button you could push that would show you what to do next in case you were stumped. I decided to complete the game without ever using such a hideous feature. But towards the end I got impatient, as it was a rental, and I used the survival instincts.

Really options like that are all part of the dumbing down of gaming. Same with rewind. The temptation to use it will likely be too much for most of us, and we'll end up only cheating ourselves, instead of playing the game with the proper challenge.

There is already the restart button for most races. Thats plenty. Anymore and you might as well activate an invulnerable or nitro cheat

 

[Samus]

That was a lame reason not to include when the thread started and it still is.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

You say dumbing down, I say broadening the appeal to a wider userbase. Not everybody who buys GT is buying it for the super-elite-ultra-realism status. Some are buying it for, believe it or not, fun. I recognize GT Mode is geared to make that as hard to find as possible, but it still is a game, no matter what clever marketing slogan is stuck on the box.

If people would find the "temptation too great", than that's nobody's fault but their own. There's the temptation to run the X2010 in a bunch of events currently, and that does far more damage to the "challenge" of the game than a rewind feature ever would. The comparison to Tomb Raider isn't even very relevant; rewinding doesn't magically get you through a tough section, nor even tell you how to. It just lets you re-do it, but the onus is on you to find the solution through that portion of the track. Racing line? A different story, but I'm glad they introduced it to those who want to use it to learn a track. The funny thing being that everybody I know who's turned it on needed far more than a racing line to learn .

Incentives to not use it (in the form of extra credits, a la FM) could keep the anti-rewind-brigade happy.

 

[Exorcet]

Really options like that are all part of the dumbing down of gaming. Same with rewind. The temptation to use it will likely be too much for most of us, and we'll end up only cheating ourselves, instead of playing the game with the proper challenge.

Again with temptation. Either you want to use it or you don't. There is no shame in wanting to, but there's also no reason other people should go without just because you can't control yourself.

At least rewind can't replace skill like SRF or driving overpowered cars.

Honestly the whole temptation thing is probably nonsense, the attitude here with people against rewind shows that. I doubt they would give it the time of day. You just said you basically made it through a game without using something and only used it for time constraints. I would figure that you wouldn't just rent GT6. Also if GT6 keeps the same control options as GT5, you'll be able to simple unassign the rewind button. Now there's no temptation.

 

[Earth]

That was a lame reason not to include when the thread started and it still is.

If rewind is such a great feature, shouldnt every game have it? If I throw a bad pass at the end of a Madden game and I lose the match because of it, should I be able to rewind? I can do that in Forza at the end of a race, so why not Madden?

Having to deal with the consequences of our actions, whether for good or bad, is part of life. In sports, making the right choices sometimes in a split second is part of the thrill and challenge. If you remove that, you've dealt a serious blow to the spirit of sports and competition.

You say dumbing down, I say broadening the appeal to a wider userbase. Not everybody who buys GT is buying it for the super-elite-ultra-realism status. Some are buying it for, believe it or not, fun. I recognize GT Mode is geared to make that as hard to find as possible, but it still is a game, no matter what clever marketing slogan is stuck on the box.

If people would find the "temptation too great", than that's nobody's fault but their own. There's the temptation to run the X2010 in a bunch of events currently, and that does far more damage to the "challenge" of the game than a rewind feature ever would. The comparison to Tomb Raider isn't even very relevant; rewinding doesn't magically get you through a tough section, nor even tell you how to. It just lets you re-do it, but the onus is on you to find the solution through that portion of the track. Racing line? A different story, but I'm glad they introduced it to those who want to use it to learn a track. The funny thing being that everybody I know who's turned it on needed far more than a racing line to learn .

Incentives to not use it (in the form of extra credits, a la FM) could keep the anti-rewind-brigade happy.

10 million people bought GT5, so I think PD should consider making those people happy first before trying to please others. I would argue part of the fun is the challenge, and rewind makes the overall challenge of GT games even more non existent.

The existence of the X2010 and the ability to use it in the Sunday Cup shouldn't be a reason to dig GT in a deeper hole by accepting rewind.

Its interesting you bring up the credit bonus system used in Forza. This makes it seem as though those who are against rewind dont want to feel as though they're at a disadvantage to someone, or they need a reward for not using it. I believe the reason why rewind is in Forza and not Gran Turismo, is the personality of each game's creator. Kazunori Yamauchi appears to be a fiercely competitive individual, who competes in real racing events. Dan Greenwalt on the other hand appears to be more of a "car guy" who could care less about competition, or whats ethically acceptable in a car racing game.

Again with temptation. Either you want to use it or you don't. There is no shame in wanting to, but there's also no reason other people should go without just because you can't control yourself.

At least rewind can't replace skill like SRF or driving overpowered cars.

Honestly the whole temptation thing is probably nonsense, the attitude here with people against rewind shows that. I doubt they would give it the time of day. You just said you basically made it through a game without using something and only used it for time constraints. I would figure that you wouldn't just rent GT6. Also if GT6 keeps the same control options as GT5, you'll be able to simple unassign the rewind button. Now there's no temptation.

SRF is a good example of the numerous assists already in Gran Turismo, and why nothing else, especially rewind, is really needed.

Rewind shows a dislike of having to face the consequences of our actions. We should embrace cause and effect. Tampering with it only dulls our perception powers.

How about training drivers to avoid mistakes in the first place, rather then granting them a free pass for every error? We all learn from our mistakes, but better off is he who puts good effort towards trying to avoid them in the first place.

 

[Moglet]

I was racing in GT5 recently and one of my cats jumped over the charge cable, knocking the controller out of my hands and causing me to crash quite badly, losing a lot of time and a few positions. It's reasons like this we need rewind in GT5. I use it in emergencies in Forza and it does nothing to ruin how enjoying the game is! You don't have to use it so why complain about the idea?

The more people who get to play the game the better IMO.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

If rewind is such a great feature, shouldnt every game have it?

Sure, as an option.

If I throw a bad pass at the end of a Madden game and I lose the match because of it, should I be able to rewind? I can do that in Forza at the end of a race, so why not Madden?

Offline against AI? Sure. Say it's introduced in a training mode. If PD included rewind in GT and it was only available during solo track running, would you still complain?

Having to deal with the consequences of our actions, whether for good or bad, is part of life. In sports, making the right choices sometimes in a split second is part of the thrill and challenge. If you remove that, you've dealt a serious blow to the spirit of sports and competition.

You're absolutely right, consequences should be dealt with. Remove the restart option completely from the game. Don't allow us to pause, either.

Do you see yet that you're drawing a completely arbitrary line as to where the "spirit" ends?

10 million people bought GT5, so I think PD should consider making those people happy first before trying to please others.

I was not notified you were made the representative for those people, nor that you already apparently know what they'd like.

I would argue part of the fun is the challenge, and rewind makes the overall challenge of GT games even more non existent.

No it doesn't, you can still beat the game without the feature if it were implemented. Making it optional in no way removes the challenge from you, and other people using it to complete the game shouldn't either. This is just an extension of the common modern idea that we should dictate how others play their game.

The existence of the X2010 and the ability to use it in the Sunday Cup shouldn't be a reason to dig GT in a deeper hole by accepting rewind.

In a way, you're right; it's a reason for PD to develop a proper GT Mode.

Its interesting you bring up the credit bonus system used in Forza. This makes it seem as though those who are against rewind dont want to feel as though they're at a disadvantage to someone, or they need a reward for not using it.

They're not at any sort of disadvantage, and I'm pretty sure you'd hear as much from any players you asked. Nobody (I know) feels they deserve an award for not using it either; the fact a bonus is handed out just aligns with how the game's difficulty is measured; every option that makes driving more difficult and/or realistic gives you more credits. I earn a few extra percent for insisting on using a clutch instead of a simplified manual, for example.

I believe the reason why rewind is in Forza and not Gran Turismo, is the personality of each game's creator. Kazunori Yamauchi appears to be a fiercely competitive individual, who competes in real racing events. Dan Greenwalt on the other hand appears to be more of a "car guy" who could care less about competition, or whats ethically acceptable in a car racing game.

I'd argue that the person who cares about the competition is the one who's focusing on improving his product at his job, not how he places during his hobby.

Ethics?

SRF is a good example of the numerous assists already in Gran Turismo, and why nothing else, especially rewind, is really needed.

SRF is a bad example because it toys with the physics and the parameters. I don't like it at all either, but I have no qualms with ASM or TCS being there, nor the racing line, since none of them affect the driving engine, which IMO is the important factor.

Rewind shows a dislike of having to face the consequences of our actions. We should embrace cause and effect. Tampering with it only dulls our perception powers.

Gaming shows a dislike of having to face the consequences of our actions.

How about training drivers to avoid mistakes in the first place, rather then granting them a free pass for every error? We all learn from our mistakes, but better off is he who puts good effort towards trying to avoid them in the first place.

My girlfriend has learned far more, about not just car control but race craft, spending the last few months occasionally playing FM4 (with rewind) than she did with the rewind-less GT5. Teachers know there are different methods of teaching, and no two students will absorb information the same. This applies to racing games too; while some of us may learn better by lapping the entire Nordschleife for a few hundred laps before we feel comfortable there (or insist on doing it that way), others don't. Unless you have some quantifiable proof that there is indeed only one way...

 

[Exorcet]

If rewind is such a great feature, shouldnt every game have it?

Does this make qualifying, something conspicuously absent in console racing games, a bad thing?

Having to deal with the consequences of our actions, whether for good or bad, is part of life. In sports, making the right choices sometimes in a split second is part of the thrill and challenge. If you remove that, you've dealt a serious blow to the spirit of sports and competition.

If you feel that way don't use it. What you're describing is a game that forces rewind on you any time you fail. I don't think anyone wants that.

And rewind wouldn't change anything online anyway.

10 million people bought GT5, so I think PD should consider making those people happy first before trying to please others. I would argue part of the fun is the challenge, and rewind makes the overall challenge of GT games even more non existent.

Only if you use it to remove challenges. I'd also think those 10 milion (which would include people on this site arguing for rewind and possibly people off this site arguing for rewind) would like more players in GT and more sales for PD so that they continue to exist.

The existence of the X2010 and the ability to use it in the Sunday Cup shouldn't be a reason to dig GT in a deeper hole by accepting rewind.

Accepting rewind isn't deepening a hole at all. Just as is the case with the X1, you are not obligated to use it. It's for the best that you get to choice of using a used something other or the X1 in the Sunday Cup. Forcing one option or the other is just plain unnecessary.

The whole point of the other examples was to show that there are things that do more "damage" than rewind (SRF) and that choices don't lead to falling to temptation all the time (X1).

I believe the reason why rewind is in Forza and not Gran Turismo, is the personality of each game's creator. Kazunori Yamauchi appears to be a fiercely competitive individual, who competes in real racing events. Dan Greenwalt on the other hand appears to be more of a "car guy" who could care less about competition, or whats ethically acceptable in a car racing game.

They both seem like "car guys" to me. Both games are appalling when it comes to setting up certain racing scenarios. No qualification, 30 second damage repair. No pace car. No flags. On and on.

SRF is a good example of the numerous assists already in Gran Turismo, and why nothing else, especially rewind, is really needed.

SRF is nothing like rewind. SRF changes the gameplay to make things easier. It artificially makes you better than you are. Rewind can be used for driving training and physics exploration, and it can't make you faster than your skill allows you to be.

Rewind shows a dislike of having to face the consequences of our actions. We should embrace cause and effect. Tampering with it only dulls our perception powers.

This sounds ridiculous to me. And it applies to restart, which is completely harmless.

I've brought this up before, but what if someone is on the last lap of a race, neck and neck with the AI when it suddenly goes too wide on a turn and the race is a given? Is that driver trying to make it easier by using rewind to bring the AI back on track and have a closer race? Will the player even have rewind enabled?

And if it's the player that spins and then rewinds, why should anyone care? I doubt lack of perception will result.

How about training drivers to avoid mistakes in the first place

Rewind has great potential there.

We all learn from our mistakes, but better off is he who puts good effort towards trying to avoid them in the first place.

Player looses control going too fast > Player rewinds > Players takes the corner slower > Player has learned from a mistake.

 

[trackripper123]

I liked it in GRID actually, as much as I didn't like the way the physics worked and the cars drove. A limited number per race would make sense, so people can't abuse it, something like 1 for a short A-spec race, and say, 3-4 for a longer endurance. Don't know about others, but if I make a crippling mistake in a 9h or 24h race, I don't really have the time to restart and try again, I'm a busy person (that time constraint also explaining why I've only done one of the longer endurances in GT5). Yet that shouldn't rule me out and limit me to only have fun on arcade type games, why should it? I like the GT series, it's realistic within reason, and it's fun without being frustrating.

Let the flaming against me begin.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I liked it in GRID actually, as much as I didn't like the way the physics worked and the cars drove. A limited number per race would make sense, so people can't abuse it, something like 1 for a short A-spec race, and say, 3-4 for a longer endurance. Don't know about others, but if I make a crippling mistake in a 9h or 24h race, I don't really have the time to restart and try again, I'm a busy person (that time constraint also explaining why I've only done one of the longer endurances in GT5). Yet that shouldn't rule me out and limit me to only have fun on arcade type games, why should it? I like the GT series, it's realistic within reason, and it's fun without being frustrating.

Let the flaming against me begin.

I don't really see the point in limiting the number of times it could be used. Just reward the players with more credits or something for not using it, like in Forza.

 

[trackripper123]

I don't really see the point in limiting the number of times it could be used. Just reward the players with more credits or something for not using it, like in Forza.

That works too. I'm not a Forza player so I had no idea.