- 6,380
- United Kingdom
- RoJJieE
- mb6roj
It looks better that way.
A release of a release? This is some inception thing going on.
RKM Motorsport - Tuned Tuners - May '13
- Thread starter Rotary Junkie
- 12,366 comments
- 2,999,414 views
It looks better that way.
A release of a release? This is some inception thing going on.
- 2,385
- Retired to a padded cell
- GTP_Padded_Cell
- Microsoft sucks..
Ok, no worries, that explains it then...
Maybe you guys could write something in the tune description to highlight 'offline' only cars / tunes..?? Or possibly even go one further and quote infomation about tyre wear in your online tunes aswell??
I think that would be very helpful to people looking at your tunes and also be a good 'marketing and PR' ploy for your garage. I find this info to be very useful, as do some other guys who I race with as they then know whether they have to 'back off' few a few laps in longer races to help make the tyres last the distance.
I think adding stuff like this to your tunes description will help maintain the credibility of your garage, or in a 'competitior analysis' point of view, if the other garages started doing this, you'd have to to stop being 'left behind' - so why be the sheep when you can be the shepherd!?!?!
P.S. Kyle - not sure what happened this afternoon, I was trying to talk to you down the mic + text chat, but your vette was just in the pits, we waited quite a while, but in the end had to start the race.....(??)
I'll let RJ give you a proper reply, but yeah, it's meant to do that.If you can balance it you can basically throw the car into any corner and it'll make the turn.
Edit: Tree'd by RJ.
Do I look like Colin MaCrae or Sebastian Loeb?!?!?!?!?!?!!?
Er....no...
In that case, if it's 'meant' to do that, then great job
Keep rockin'...
H
- 6,380
- United Kingdom
- RoJJieE
- mb6roj
Ask me that again after the Sebastian Loeb suit event.Do I look like Colin MaCrae or Sebastian Loeb?!?!?!?!?!?!!?
Er....no...
In that case, if it's 'meant' to do that, then great job
Keep rockin'...
H
Anyway, most people know we tune offline mostly, but I can see where a disclaimer would help someone who's new. Perhaps online-specific tunes can get an [ONLINE] tag and some tyre wear information. Everything else can be treated as an offline tune.
my mum has a 1976 Golf GTI she's had it since new
Because sheeps are Fluffy, and Shepard's are in pies
I think you've gone so far off topic you've replied to another thread!
- 2,385
- Retired to a padded cell
- GTP_Padded_Cell
- Microsoft sucks..
Because sheeps are Fluffy, and Shepard's are in pies
Fluff just gets stuck in your teeth, pies taste good and serve a purpose!!
Ginsters 4eva
Ask me that again after the Sebastian Loeb suit event.
Anyway, most people know we tune offline mostly, but I can see where a disclaimer would help someone who's new. Perhaps online-specific tunes can get an [ONLINE] tag and some tyre wear information. Everything else can be treated as an offline tune.
Hmm, how come your tunes work so well online (apart from the Scooby) but other people's don't and also have so much trouble finding a tune that works well both offline and online?!?!?
I've read on some of those shootout events some 'tuners' saying their cars are undriveable online, but great offline. The way your cars felt when 'everything' was thrown at them, I presumed most of the ones I tested were online tunes.
Seeing Kyle chuck his NSX and Esprit around online was most impressive
He'd talked about doing 535pp racing, so I just presumed (putting everything together) these were all online tunes.Even more of a 👍 to you guys then.
Yep, a little info about whether a tune is meant for online or offline would be very helpful
H
Last edited:
- 6,380
- United Kingdom
- RoJJieE
- mb6roj
RJ does some of his tuning online too, whereas my cars are usually so well-tuned offline that they become reasonably good online. In some cases they work better online by complete accident.
FWD and 4WD tunes I find work online and offline without adjustment anyway because online there's less understeer, so if doesn't understeer offline, it's set for online. It's RWD's that react so badly because of the increased oversteer and need some tuning to adjust to online.
- 2,385
- Retired to a padded cell
- GTP_Padded_Cell
- Microsoft sucks..
RJ does some of his tuning online too, whereas my cars are usually so well-tuned offline that they become reasonably good online. In some cases they work better online by complete accident.
FWD and 4WD tunes I find work online and offline without adjustment anyway because online there's less understeer, so if doesn't understeer offline, it's set for online. It's RWD's that react so badly because of the increased oversteer and need some tuning to adjust to online.
Agreed - but sometimes you need to adjust a tune according to tyre wear incurred during a race.
What works for the first few laps, might be undriveable in the last few. Not always though, but sometimes, when tyre wear kicks in, you might have only lost 25% of tyres in the first 75% of the race, but you then loose the rest of the tyres (75%) in the last 25% of the race.
4WD's can also munch their front tyres quite badly also, I tend to have to detune the front of 4WD's so I still have half decent tyres left near end of a race.
But, (I know) if you're tuning offline, this is irrelevant....
Not meaning to sound awkward or arguementative, it's just (the above) is what I've experienced with my online racing and might be useful for some, that's all...
H
- 6,380
- United Kingdom
- RoJJieE
- mb6roj
It's my 2nd attempt at HDR and it ended up pretty well, so I decided after 10 or so months it was time for a new avatar.Wow! We've actually been on topic for once!
Yeah of course, if the focus of the tune is tyre wear, then that will be taken into account when tuning. I was considering an endurance-type setup a while ago, but then I realised I'm not the tyre-saving type myself! But yeah, when it comes to tuning online, tyre wear is definately something to pay attention to.
👍
- 2,385
- Retired to a padded cell
- GTP_Padded_Cell
- Microsoft sucks..
Yeah of course, if the focus of the tune is tyre wear, then that will be taken into account when tuning. I was considering an endurance-type setup a while ago, but then I realised I'm not the tyre-saving type myself! But yeah, when it comes to tuning online, tyre wear is definately something to pay attention to.
I can relate to that big time!!!
I munch tyres like the Cookie Monsta munchies cookies...
Also, how the tyres heat up to, a guy was in our lobby testing, he couldn't get his car right, I watched him lap and his rears were blue, whereas ours were white. When we did a practice race, he got the fastest lap, but lost the race by an average of 1 sec a lap as he couldn't get heat into the rears, the car was wobbling and he kept making mistakes, which ultimately cost him.
We all had same car, same setup etc but because I was more aggressive on the throttle and was spinning up the rears, I got them to the right temperature and the car felt pretty well balanced, I could drive hard and had confidence in the car...he couldn't and didn't.
It turned out, eventually, after about 1 1/2hrs - he hadn't changed his rear toe and ride height to 'loosen' the rear a bit, when we thought he had (because he said he did! - but hadn't)... That's why, even when he nailed the throttle, the rears still weren't spinning up and heating up, just 'gripping ' and causing front end understeer....
Grrrrrrrrrr
Oh well, c'est la vie...
Have you guys tried the Shelby Series 1 or the Oullim Spirra, both cars are real dark horses at around 530pp with sports soft tyres, very fast...
I got loads spare of each, if u need one to tinker with, just give me a shout.
Regards
H
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
We could. Rule of thumb for my cars generally is that pretty much anything before the Tamora and Esprit was tuned entirely offline and is a pot shot as to whether it'll work online. If it's front engine, it becomes more oversteery. If it's mid/rear engine, it becomes less oversteery/more understeery unless it's Roj's NSX in an older revision, in which case it becomes oversteery.
The Scooby becomes hellish at speed online because it was built not to be neutral but to be loose in, loose out offline. Small tweak to the ride height fixes it (though it isn't perfect, front dampers are a bit off as well for online) but hey. More fun to just rock it at the slow tracks and leave massive smoke clouds that look pretty.
Honestly, tire wear is so variable that it'd be pointless to try and give that sort of information. I might be able to take a set of tires, say, 3 laps at the 'Ring in my RX-7.... Someone else may have them nearly trashed before the end of lap 2.
Partially because we feel bad that we've somewhat erm... Squished our previous competition. The Finns were the biggest GT4 garage with us trying to chase them down... Now they're a bit of a blip on most people's radars. I can't say it doesn't feel good to be bigger and badder than them, but they do deserve some recognition.
Yeah sorry about that, I'd tried to say something to the effect of I was going to take my headset off and watch the live race but I guess you'd missed it. Didn't realize you had until I heard the race countdown, looked up, and saw my car sitting on the grid.
Do I look like Colin MaCrae or Sebastian Loeb?!?!?!?!?!?!!?
Clearly.
No, in all seriousness, the Scoob lets you get away with ridiculousness offline and at lower speeds online. I really should rework it a bit for online but eh. Not until I have to. It's rare in the power range I run it in to really need AWD traction over the grip advantage other cars have over it (slightly).
It depends a lot on the car. I still need to make an online 535PP Camaro as it should be rather quick but I get the feeling it'll also understeer quite a lot offline once it's "good" online.
I think it's also worth noting here that Scoob aside the only one of our tunes built for offline you've tested was Roj's R34... Which you could stick 400lbs of sandbags into the trunk, in the rain, on slicks, and still have no issues with. Clearly exaggerating but you get the point. The R34 is stable enough offline (perhaps slightly too stable) that the transition to online has no real negative effect.
The reason for this is that in these bloody shootout events they've based it all off of laptime... Which means you need a "fast" car. Which means you need something that's on the absolute bleeding edge for offline, resulting in a car that goes rather wrong online.
We're a bit more laid back on the laptime front and go more for a good feeling car without entirely smothering the character of the car itself. You'll never see it said that any of my cars feel entirely like a different vehicle (unless default was so sickeningly terrible it's impossible not to), but a more polished/refined version of the same.
Seeing Kyle chuck his NSX and Esprit around online was most impressive
The Esprit isn't even all that quick! The NSX smacks the hell out of it!
Yep, a little info about whether a tune is meant for online or offline would be very helpful
H
I'll probably phase in something to that effect though most of my tunes from here on out will be online just because it's what I have interest in. And it's easier to work on multiple cars online, don't know why they don't have garage access in free run.
Edit: I've got the old axe murderer Spirra but not a Series 1. I'd rather like to give that and my old nemesis the Esprit Sport 350 a shot.
- 2,385
- Retired to a padded cell
- GTP_Padded_Cell
- Microsoft sucks..
Yeah, true, driving style does make a difference in tyre wear, but that's kinda my point (without meaning to sound arguementative) - someone who feathers the throttle and brake, will probably get more life out of the tyres than someone like me who nails it.
Also, it provides a 'benchmark', if you tune the car and can get 'X' amount of laps out of it, then someone tests it and does 'Y' amount (say 50%) then says your tune isn't that great - it would indicate it's not the tune!!
If you see what I mean?? A tyre wear indicator could be helpful (sometimes - possibly) to either validate or disprove possible negative or unmerited criticism.. Maybe??
But, agreed, it's not 100% important to some people, I guess I'm being biased as alot of the racing I do tyre wear plays a reasonably important role, so I guess I'm a bit blinkered by the subject.. I'm a bit of a geek too, I used to do alot of research and testing at work, so numbers, facts and figures were always helpful in one way shape or form, I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks!!
(woof woof)...
DOH - there was me thinking you'd got scared by my 'Flying Carrot' (orange scooby) and run off at the prospect of getting whooped by it
(just kidding
)No worries, I can send a Shelby through, I got loads stockpiled, check your gifts by the time u read this.
Hmm, yeah, 350 350 350 350 350 350 - you won't regret it, the 350 Esprit is a bit special..
Thanks RJ - catch up with you soon
Regards
H
- 6,380
- United Kingdom
- RoJJieE
- mb6roj
Onboy123
Premium
- 8,872
- Hong Kong
- Onboy123
And it works?! How come it never worked when I tried it ages ago ?!It's so my cars look boss.
On a related note, I've not felt any of my cars bottoming out unless it's for an obvious reason like driving over kerbs at weird angles.
- 62
- Vancouver, BC
- blacktop_bandit
Actually, Roj's right. Watching replays of his cars running at full throttle on flat and banked tracks and his cars do not bottom out. I was surprised to see no sparks coming from underneath the RKM Murcielago while blasting down Indianapolis at 220 mph, considering how low it sits on the ground.👍
- 428
- london
I'v wanted to do a review for a while but i'v had a problem, Which car cause there is so many that are great,
Camaro SC550,
Green meanie,
STI S400,
Challenger GTS,
R32 skyline,
SP1 Maybeline,
M3 CSL, (first tune i used from the RKM garage and iv bought other cars just to try the tunes RKM have done for them)
to name more than a few.
But today i found "The one" after 571 laps a PB of 53,338 and 9 very long hours on Tsukuba.
WOW what a car, i picked this car to do the enduro with cause i new it handles great on sports soft and it would fit in with the other cars in the race, but i added some racing hard slicks and got ready to start my 9 hours of torture, by the second hairpin i was already in front pushing it to limit to see how long the tyres would last so i had a base limit of when to pit, they held out pretty well but i pitted after 30 laps change to soft fronts medium rears then the fun began.
The car handles so well that every lap with fresh tyres was on 54-55 seconds consistently with the odd 53 to bring a smile to my face , even after 40 laps on the same tyres fronts totally worn out i was still getting 56-58 lap after lap with hardly any understeer at all, even when overtaking on the outside of the hairpins,
what made it even better was in 571 laps i only fell off the track once and that was only cause i sneezed and wouldn't pause the race,
what don't look at me like that real racing drivers don't have a pause button when they need to sneeze,
but anyway what i thought would be torture was pretty fun even after 7 hours and 3 pause breaks i was happy to keep on driving with a sore back and a painful knee all because i was in the RKM Motorports Mine's Terminator R.
RKM's goal was "to create one of our fastest sports tyre road cars yet"
i would go as far to say it is thee fastest sports tyre road car in the tuning forum (well with me at the wheel anyway)
purely cause it handles like its on rails,
i would even bet that this car would be the only one that could use a full tank of fuel (guessing about 70 laps at Tsukuba) without pitting for new tyres and still be drivable.
I'v even made a 600pp sports tyre lobby racing on Nurburgring Nordschleife
i started at the back of 8 other drivers and took my time watching everyone in their cars spinning off all over the place once i got to 1st i didn't see anyone in my mirror for the rest of the race its that good
Thank you VTiRoj and Rotary Junkie for all the great cars and the work you have both put into them.
Camaro SC550,
Green meanie,
STI S400,
Challenger GTS,
R32 skyline,
SP1 Maybeline,
M3 CSL, (first tune i used from the RKM garage and iv bought other cars just to try the tunes RKM have done for them)
to name more than a few.
But today i found "The one" after 571 laps a PB of 53,338 and 9 very long hours on Tsukuba.
WOW what a car, i picked this car to do the enduro with cause i new it handles great on sports soft and it would fit in with the other cars in the race, but i added some racing hard slicks and got ready to start my 9 hours of torture, by the second hairpin i was already in front pushing it to limit to see how long the tyres would last so i had a base limit of when to pit, they held out pretty well but i pitted after 30 laps change to soft fronts medium rears then the fun began.
The car handles so well that every lap with fresh tyres was on 54-55 seconds consistently with the odd 53 to bring a smile to my face , even after 40 laps on the same tyres fronts totally worn out i was still getting 56-58 lap after lap with hardly any understeer at all, even when overtaking on the outside of the hairpins,
what made it even better was in 571 laps i only fell off the track once and that was only cause i sneezed and wouldn't pause the race,
what don't look at me like that real racing drivers don't have a pause button when they need to sneeze,
but anyway what i thought would be torture was pretty fun even after 7 hours and 3 pause breaks i was happy to keep on driving with a sore back and a painful knee all because i was in the RKM Motorports Mine's Terminator R.
RKM's goal was "to create one of our fastest sports tyre road cars yet"
i would go as far to say it is thee fastest sports tyre road car in the tuning forum (well with me at the wheel anyway
)purely cause it handles like its on rails,
i would even bet that this car would be the only one that could use a full tank of fuel (guessing about 70 laps at Tsukuba) without pitting for new tyres and still be drivable.
I'v even made a 600pp sports tyre lobby racing on Nurburgring Nordschleife
i started at the back of 8 other drivers and took my time watching everyone in their cars spinning off all over the place once i got to 1st i didn't see anyone in my mirror for the rest of the race its that good
Thank you VTiRoj and Rotary Junkie for all the great cars and the work you have both put into them.
Michelin
Premium
- 6,985
- GTP_Michelin
RJ, what have you done with this car is.. well, just drive it to yourself so you understand.
I've drove the RGT before and it wanted to kill you at every single turn, you couldn't control it.
Now, what RKM did was give more power and strip the weight of the RGT.
But then you can say: "Wouldn't that make the car want to kill you MORE than it already does?"
This is where RKM magic happens. The car is CONTROLABLE! You can take the car drifting that you can control it even with a DS3 (my case). I took it for some laps around Eiger, and I could control it easily, throw it in some drifts and nothing would happen. This tune put a HUGE smile on my face!
Then I bring it to the 4 hours of Nurburgring. I'm not kidding, I could keep up with the S2K GT1 Turbo (C-ZETA love) and the R8 LMS DRIFTING!
This tune did let me without words.
RKM 👍 !
RKM magic at it's best! The car handles like it's on rails.
But this one I made my dad drive it (mind it that he doesn't play videogames AT ALL).
He could lap easily under the 1 minute mark at Tsukuba, he did, what, about 15 minutes of driving on the CRZ and couldn't stop laughing at how awesome the car was.
But then I told him that he wasn't using any helping apart from AT and ABS 1. He was like WTF? and still laughing for how awesome it was.
He surely had a blast and he did thank me for making him drive it, so I say thank to you guys for making my dad having a blast driving it ! 👍
Last edited:
- 2,191
- San Francisco,
- machate-man
- dowby
- 6,380
- United Kingdom
- RoJJieE
- mb6roj
Yeah that's it. 👍
Nope, I've been trying to get "The Air Of Experience" for my main driver so I've not been tuning. I've got 2 more cars left before I start yours.Bugger you!
!! Good point!Anyway, thanks for the review and thanks for the extended road test!
The Mine's has so much grip, it's ideal for Tsukuba endurance events because you're not wheelspinning all that tyre life away and because it's so easy to corner, you can relax and maintain the tyres and still put down good laptimes. It's definately our fastest sports tyre 4WD to date.
Thank you and thanks to your dad for the kind words!
:tup:Not if it's serious 450PP racing. You're better off with the '02 with it's better grip and 6-speed gearbox.
A little bit of rear ballast maybe 30kg and lower power would be ideal.
I'm never on early.
And no, no job. 
Onboy123
Premium
- 8,872
- Hong Kong
- Onboy123
Nope, I've been trying to get "The Air Of Experience" for my main driver so I've not been tuning. I've got 2 more cars left before I start yours.
I'm never on early.
-.- Silly b-spec
And early as in early over here. I normally see you on at 6-7PM, but recently, you've been on at 8:00-8:30PM And is your lack of job due to you trying too hard to get the 'Air of Experience'?
- 6,380
- United Kingdom
- RoJJieE
- mb6roj
-.- Silly b-spec
And early as in early over here. I normally see you on at 6-7PM, but recently, you've been on at 8:00-8:30PM And is your lack of job due to you trying too hard to get the 'Air of Experience'?
It's for the trophy!
Nah it's just because I've been sleeping late. I can search for jobs and get Air Of Experience at the same time you know. PS3 is right beside my PC.
