RMs in GT6

[Tenacious D]

I want Race Mod to return, though with a Livery Editor too.

The reason being that if you slap a few tens of thousand worth of parts on a car and strip it down, it's more like a tuner or semi-pro racer compared to the serious race cars which have a million or three put into them. It's one thing to make a BTCC style hothatch racer out of a Honda or Cooper, or a Nissan drifter. It's another thing entirely to want to make a GT class racer out of a Corvette, Viper, Ferrari or Lamborghini. For this reason, I too want to see Race Mod follow racing league criteria and produce a car that fits in with certain leagues - which might have to be fantasy leagues in some respects. I'm hoping that the various racing leagues would be happy to be represented in Gran Turismo, and not gouge SONY for the privilege of some "free" publicity.

Another reason for fantasy leagues would be for Race Modding cars that aren't permitted in certain leagues by current rules. I'd love to be able to make a Spirra GT class race car, for instance, or a F355 Challenge or Supra MkIII race car.

Along with Race Mod, I'd like to see a Tuner Mod option which would produce a tuner, like the Gran Turismo versions of cars in Prologue. And then of course, there would be all the customization we can pick and choose ourselves to do.

 

[AerodyManiac]

I like the current 'RMs' in GT5, but it would be better if the RMs in GT6 are actually real racing cars (i.e. RM'ed normal cars = real life racing cars) 👍

 

[JBanton]

To be honest I'd rather see a system where each individual part is customisable. RM offers no individuality even if there was a livery editor.

Being able to choose individual parts allows a player to express their own style and taste and create a vehicle that reflects it. For me ownership of a vehicle is only really worth anything because I know the vehicle is mine, and nobody else has one like it.

The RM system just gives a pre-determined upgrade that anybody can use, so now that I think about it, I'm almost against it. 👎

I'm not against its' use for creating race cars though.

 

[Tenacious D]

The RM system just gives a pre-determined upgrade that anybody can use, so now that I think about it, I'm almost against it. 👎

I'm not against its' use for creating race cars though.

That's rather funny, there...

I doubt anyone is suggesting that Race Mod replace complete customization options. At least I hope not. Besides, Race Mod is supposed to replicate the process whereby a street car is turned into a race car as racing teams do in real life. And as I said, there are different levels of this, like the more basic BTCC and low class GT racing in Europe, and our own SCCA in which race cars are basically expensive tuners. But then you have serious racing classes like ALMS, the dreaded NASCAR and the higher GT classes in which the conversions cost upwards of a million dollars.

And as with racing leagues, they have certain criteria for the conversion of a Ford GT or an Aston Martin into a race car. Race Mod makes every Ford GT the same - though hopefully with a Livery Editor, we can mark our own racing identity. Meanwhile, you have full customization options for creating tuners or racers to whatever level you want.

Let me give you an example. I enjoyed the heck out of taking a stock Ford GT and making it pretty much the equivalent of an ALMS car so I could enter it in the A-Spec American Racing series, whatever it is, on the Indianapolis Speedway oval. Even with racing softs, it didn't hang onto the road like the Ford GT race cars, so it was a handful to get around the track with the rest of the real racers and hope to win. But with some very careful turn taking I could pull it off, and it was a blast!

And this is what I'd expect a Ford GT to be like if I had one and put around a hundred thousand or so in high performance parts onto, versus a racing team who did a full on racing conversion at the cost of a million or two. This is what I'm hoping to see in GT6. You can modify any car all out of reason if you want to, but when you do Race Mod, it takes the car to the next level in racing performance and dynamics. And I'm hoping that as in GT2, just about every car can be race modded. I really want to see the Spirra with a race mod job done on it.

Forza goes a little overboard with what you can do. Take a Honda Civic and a few hundred thousand, and you can make a car that will keep pace with purpose built racing prototypes. Yeah, amusing, but realistically it's just dumb, and shouldn't work that way.

You guys and your pastel colors...

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

All I can say is if we had the option to simply gut the interior and add a race interior(visually), add more aero, and control the rev limiter, of EVERY car. We wouldn't need "RM".. Livery Editor would be a huge addition that would positively reflect on GT6..

 

[interpolfan11]

You can modify any car all out of reason if you want to, but when you do Race Mod, it takes the car to the next level in racing performance and dynamics. And I'm hoping that as in GT2, just about every car can be race modded.

A fully-customized Ford GT in GT5 probably couldn't outperform a genuine ALMS Ford GT, but that's because there's not enough tuning options in GT5. If given proper tuning options (especially in regards to suspension tuning and weight reduction), I honestly think you could replicate an ALMS Ford GT pretty accurately performance-wise.

And the people who want this complicated RM system still don't seem to understand that it would require a huge amount of resources if each RM car got a custom widebody kit like they did in GT5. We would back to square one with very few premium cars.

 

[Earth]

I never intended all 8 or 9 to be used at a time, if that's what you might be implying. If GT6 has 24 cars on track, multi class racing should probably limited to 4 classes, and even then, cars like the RM1 and Cup120 classes shouldn't belong on the same track in any situation (speed difference would be far far too large). But with 8 standard classes, it opens up the possibility for a variety of 2 or 3 class races. A race could conceivably have RM1-RM2-RM3 on the same track, or RM2-RM3-RM4, or Cup240-Cup160 only or Cup200-Cup160-Cup120, or various other combinations.

Another advantage of the standard 8 is to have a variety of cars in a variety of classes. In that hypothetical RM list, out of 203 total RM-able cars, it ends up being 35 RM1-able cars, 29 RM2-able cars, 33 RM3-able cars, 34 RM4-able cars, etc. I think that's plenty of selection per class, as many cars can be converted to multiple classes. That way, tweeners (like the Skyline GT-R) can race in multiple classes. It's also not that much work for PD, as an Alfa 8C RM1 and an Alfa 8C RM3 are identical apart from weight, engine performance and size/number of wings. So putting the same RM in multiple classes is relatively simple.

But I could be wrong about what is feasible and less classes might be better.
That's why I used the ~ to indicate approximate power levels. PD would have to put in a little work to balance all the cars, but the pay off is that a multitude of cars and classes will have nearly identical performing cars available to gamers for years to come.

When I say 8 classes is too many I dont mean 8 different classes in the same race. What Im worried about is if one room is named "RM3" only, another RM2 only, another CUP 100 only, another RM1 only, another Cup 400 only, another RM4 only, etc etc. Thats how I worry it can spread everyone too thin. Multi class racing is a good idea but will be rarely used online as most races are only made up of a half dozen or so drivers. So that doesnt help much in keeping drivers from getting spread out among different rooms with different restrictions.

I can go with 8 classes IF each car has a range of two RM specifications that can be switched to on the fly.

Example. A McLaren F1 no doubt fits in the RM1 category, but it should have the option to be restricted a step down with the push of a button into the RM2 category. A Ford Mustang would be able to fit in the RM4 and fastest Cup category

This gives the driver more options and more races available for their car

 

[Tenacious D]

And the people who want this complicated RM system still don't seem to understand that it would require a huge amount of resources if each RM car got a custom widebody kit like they did in GT5. We would back to square one with very few premium cars.

I'm not sure about this, seeing that we already have a large number of proper race cars in GT5 already.

Modeling wise, this doesn't deal with all that much of the car. Some of the exterior, much of the interior, but a stripped down car is much simpler than a typical car interior with a full dashboard.

Physics wise, the engine is supposed to be ready to have data tables input, which means quick testing and tweaking. And PD has data on lots of race cars and tuners.

Sound wise... frankly, I don't care, sorry.

But you're right about one thing. If it is too much work, we won't get it, and no amount of post-begging will change that.

 

[Jav]

I really like the way you think Sagaris! We can only wish PD adopts your way of reasoning and focus!

 

[adam46]

I wouldn't mind RM's for cars that don't already ahve race variants. For example the RM TVr; There was GT2 version of that already and Especially the Corvette RM's. I would rather have the real deal than an RM of that car. I mean for god sake the most recent Corvette racer on there is a Corvette C5.R from the year 2000!

 

[hairystig]

More RMs can only be a good thing.

 

[Eks]

GT5 has 17 race modifiable vehicles. (And if I'm not mistaken, GT2 had 300+!)

First of all I would like to start out by saying that we should have more of them, I'm not expecting over 300 but atleast 80-100.
But that is just numbers.

My actual idea is to have a 2-Stage RM system. Here's how it'd work :

Stage 1 RM (Cannot RM to Stage 2 until you have modified the car to Stage 1.)
-Cosmetically similar to GT5 with little to no decals, number plate, wing, aero kit, etc.
-20-50hp boost
-Reduced weight + roll cage and handling upgrades similar to GT5.

Stage 2 RM
-Cost a bit more/less
-Be like in GT2 where (If I remember correctly) car has many sponsors. Also, wider body/tires, stripped away extras, more race-ier aero kit, etc.
-100-300hp boost
-More reduced weight + more/better handling upgrades

I wanted to explain more in-depth but the Ps3 character limit will not allow me to :/

Oh well, what do you think?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Good idea.


But, why not:


This thread?

Or this?


Not to shoot your idea down, but, I'm giving you the links to go to the threads that already exist on the matter. Or, you could change the name of the thread, just to differentiate yourself from the GT6 wishlists...

 

[Eks]

Because this is mainly about how I think RMing cars should work, I just threw in the "more RMs" part but that isn't the main subject.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Because this is mainly about how I think RMing cars should work, I just threw in the "more RMs" part but that isn't the main subject.

So, let's discuss the details of your idea...? And then have discussion and debate specifically on the topic of 2-stage RMs? Or, dare I say, 3 stage RMs?

1. street car with roll-cage
2. Touring Car (lightly modified street car into race car conversion)
3. Super Touring Car/DTM/JGTC/WRC rally car

That might work too.

 

[TokoTurismo]

How about instead of PD making sponsor livery on the RMs, but keep them the way they are like in GT5 and add more RMs on the cars, and add a livery editor for us to make. Good deal right there huh?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

How about instead of PD making sponsor livery on the RMs, but keep them the way they are like in GT5 and add more RMs on the cars, and add a livery editor for us to make. Good deal right there huh?

Or give us both. That way, we could have our own, unique paints in RM-spec races!

 

[TokoTurismo]

Or give us both. That way, we could have our own, unique paints in RM-spec races!

That'll be a dream come true.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

That'll be a dream come true.

[/THREAD]


Nah.

I really enjoyed the Impreza RM and Evo X TCs, a lot. Good cars, and they look good.


If we had more RMs, they could function as the long awaited BTCC cars... With a livery editor? Perfect!

 

[Eks]

So, let's discuss the details of your idea...? And then have discussion and debate specifically on the topic of 2-stage RMs? Or, dare I say, 3 stage RMs?

1. street car with roll-cage
2. Touring Car (lightly modified street car into race car conversion)
3. Super Touring Car/DTM/JGTC/WRC rally car

That might work too.

Good idea but I'm sure that you can already buy a roll cage..? I might be thinking of chassis reinforcement. Anyway, just a street car with a roll cage isn't enough considering PD could just add Roll Cage upgrades. I like your other 2 ideas though.

@TokoTurismo
That would be nice but in the case that we don't get a decal editor, more extensive/creative RMing would be enough of a substitute. 👍

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Good idea but I'm sure that you can already buy a roll cage..? I might be thinking of chassis reinforcement. Anyway, just a street car with a roll cage isn't enough considering PD could just add Roll Cage upgrades. I like your other 2 ideas though.

But, I'm talking about having a way to make it visible, and make the effects more noticeable; GT5's chassis ridgity has a very small amount of influence on the performance. In real life, a strong, ridgid chassis is imperative.


But, a street car with a roll cage = Time attack/autocross build.


Doesn't have enough to really become a JGTC race car, though.

 

[Earth]

Another thread about RM possibilities, similar to this one

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=260819

 

[CodeRedR51]

GT5 has 17 race modifiable vehicles. (And if I'm not mistaken, GT2 had 300+!)

Also remember the DLC "TC" cars are technically RM versions of their street counterparts, but where added to the game as completely new cars. Not sure why PD did that...

 

[VBR]

Even if all cars are not able to be RM'd in GT6, we should at least have the option of adding a race number to all cars.

POLL!

 

[Samus]

I'm sure I've said it before but for me "RM cars" should be gone, they offer no personality or freedom when it comes to modifying a car. What they should do instead is of course firstly add a livery editor so we can give any car any personal livery we like, then some performance based aero parts to finish the job. Then WE can decide on it's performance, not PD in some pre-determined settings.

Sure include the pre-made "RM" cars as separate cars if they must but when it comes to actually building racing cars from street cars I want more freedom to do it how I want it, not how PD wants it.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I'm sure I've said it before but for me "RM cars" should be gone, they offer no personality or freedom when it comes to modifying a car. What they should do instead is of course firstly add a livery editor so we can give any car any personal livery we like, then some performance based aero parts to finish the job. Then WE can decide on it's performance, not PD in some pre-determined settings.

Sure include the pre-made "RM" cars as separate cars if they must but when it comes to actually building racing cars from street cars I want more freedom to do it how I want it, not how PD wants it.

I agree.

Racing modifications was a great feature in GT1 & 2 because I'm sure it wasn't possible to have a livery editor and whatnot on the PS1. While I'm happy it returned in GT5 at least, I also think it's time to abandon the idea. Just give us more customization options so we can make our cars how we want them to. The RMs in GT5 have nice body upgrades but other than that, they look generic and dull. Most of them have nothing but the GT logo on them, numbers, and a few decals. The only way we can make our RMs look different from each other is by color, which isn't good enough.

 

[analog]

Here's my proposal.

All current RM and (DLC) TC cars along with the future ones should be treated like the TC ones currently are, available in the dealership with an extra power bonus over the roadgoing version, unlike RM's.

Additionally, both the RM/TC exterior can be replicated on the roadgoing version as another additional aero-pack option in GT-Auto (but without the power bonus perhaps) as well as the stripped/modified RM/TC interior option becoming available separately.

This way you can for example create a roadcar looking like a racecar on the outside but with a regular interior, or a racecar with a stripped interior looking like a roadcar/cupcar, etc.

Along with a livery editor this creates much more freedom and possibilities to create multiple significantly different cars from one single car model.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I'm sure I've said it before but for me "RM cars" should be gone, they offer no personality or freedom when it comes to modifying a car. What they should do instead is of course firstly add a livery editor so we can give any car any personal livery we like, then some performance based aero parts to finish the job. Then WE can decide on it's performance, not PD in some pre-determined settings.

Sure include the pre-made "RM" cars as separate cars if they must but when it comes to actually building racing cars from street cars I want more freedom to do it how I want it, not how PD wants it.

👍

 

[interpolfan11]

I'm sure I've said it before but for me "RM cars" should be gone, they offer no personality or freedom when it comes to modifying a car. What they should do instead is of course firstly add a livery editor so we can give any car any personal livery we like, then some performance based aero parts to finish the job. Then WE can decide on it's performance, not PD in some pre-determined settings.

Sure include the pre-made "RM" cars as separate cars if they must but when it comes to actually building racing cars from street cars I want more freedom to do it how I want it, not how PD wants it.

I've had major debates on this subject too many times to get into another one, so for now I'm just going to give you a thumbs up.

👍

 

[avens]

isn't comic sans against the AUP and the laws of nature?

Personally I think RM should be considered as different cars.