Round 1 Technical Discussion: Cape Ring

[redcouch1212]

On a side note, after reading the last few posts, I decided to hit Cape Ring again and ran a few high 2.46s (after not being able to hit them since January 2!) before a 2:46.489 graced my screen. I was doing doughnuts soon after.

That put you 0.003 seconds away from bumping me outa top 10, so close! I'm sure I'll be bumped soon though, at least before I give it one last try this weekend.

 

[TylerJDallas]

These threads are great. I really like the community behind this hobby. In the thick of battle so much great conversation. Cool to find a group of folks that aren't jaded about their fun.

 

[blindsidefive0]

Nice job dude! How did you react when you saw that you finally got that sub 2:45 time? hahaha I would have gone crazy after all that time it seems you put into it. 👍

I had been close my last 2 sessions, getting a .006 then a .005. I was running some decent splits, and then going into the ring I knew had a good lap going. I got the feeling, "don't 🤬 this up, it could be it..." I knew I hit the turn after the ring well enough (i.e. didn't blow the lap), but it would be pretty close. Once I finished t25, I pressed the up arrow to check my previous ghost (.005) and it was the greatest feeling in the world seeing it in my rear view mirror, gently drifting backwards...

If anything, it was relief. I hate Cape Ring, a lot. Even before GT Academy I thought it was the stupidest course PD has ever created, overall pretty unoriginal and boring, and technical/challenging in all the wrong ways. The best part is that I'm finally satisfied with my time so I'm not going to run another lap on that track for the rest of the competition.

 

[zr1chris]

Well I had taken a break from this track for about 2 weeks. Before my break i was stuck on a 2:48.058. Last night i went back to it again and managed to run a better lap than that 4 times!! I started with a 2:47.947 after about a half hour, then a 2:47.986 a few minutes later, then about 45 minutes later i ran a 2:47.886 and a 2:47.640 back to back. I called it a night after that. I might have another tenth or 2 still in me.

I guess i learned a little from driving the other cars. One major things was car control when sliding around a corner to make sure i dont lose momentum and to be smooth. After sliding those slow cars that didnt have much grip i found it much easier to slide the GT Academy 370Z since it was much more stable and had so much more grip.

 

[blindsidefive0]

Well I had taken a break from this track for about 2 weeks. Before my break i was stuck on a 2:48.058. Last night i went back to it again and managed to run a better lap than that 4 times!! I started with a 2:47.947 after about a half hour, then a 2:47.986 a few minutes later, then about 45 minutes later i ran a 2:47.886 and a 2:47.640 back to back. I called it a night after that. I might have another tenth or 2 still in me.

I guess i learned a little from driving the other cars. One major things was car control when sliding around a corner to make sure i dont lose momentum and to be smooth. After sliding those slow cars that didnt have much grip i found it much easier to slide the GT Academy 370Z since it was much more stable and had so much more grip.

That's awesome.👍

It's also exactly what I want to hear because I might have to go back to Cape Ring this weekend after taking a week off...

 

[chuyler1]

You might have to go back? Don't you have the fastest time on the ring?

 

[blindsidefive0]

You might have to go back? Don't you have the fastest time on the ring?

For now, yes. However, 3wide has been putting up some mean times and quickly got to a 2:45-flat. I would not be surprised if he passes me. It's also not a perfect lap - it's a very good lap (that I was proud of at the time), but there is time to be had.

Also, it's not about just having the Cape time. Let's say we get to Sunday and I'm trailing overall by a tenth or two - if I want the Playseat, I will need to find that time somewhere. That lap at Cape Ring I'm off 1 tenth of my best in each sector, so I'll have to go back if I think I've nailed Rome/Tsukuba.

 

[chuyler1]

I hear ya. I'm just racing to stay in the game, nevermind actually win something. My fastest laps are never my best. I've been finding time on various sections here and there...but in order to capitalize on them, I have to do everything else as well as I did before. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a "-0.8xx" appear after sector 1...to only end up running the same lap time at the finish. Obviously my time has a lot more wiggle room than yours though.

 

[Camasi]

I am not sure if this topic has been touched and i am definitely not above it as i am doing the same thing but...

Don't you guys think that this track is a bit broken in terms of "corner cutting"? Most if not all tracks have a rule that at any given point two of your tires have to be within that white line. In sector 2 people (including myself because hey.. its faster!) are clearly going off track and running into the grass in order to have a better approach. After the Istanbul like multiple apex turns they are running in the grass again. Let's just call it for what it is... cheating. I really think a patch should have come into place to invalidate laps that break this two tire rule and for anyone who makes contact with the wall at those speeds.. because in real life that would never ever happen on a consistent basis. Your suspension would be destroyed.

I don't want to sound like i am some whiny player who just signed on to GTplanet to complain (in fact i have been lurking on this site for years and love it!), its just that if you call your product the real driving simulator and are having a contest to find someone to hone into a genuine racing driver.. then you don't need to be allowing some of this crap. Part of me is afraid that the moderators of this contest might actually take a look at these laps and start invalidating. :S

 

[chriz00]

I finally managed a 2:47.7xx, which is good for a 90th position overall in the West.

Still going to aim for a high 2:46.

 

[Forcednduckshn]

2'45.609...but threw away some 4's and 5's!!!

Damned first sector, I just can't nail it right. 48.8 is my best. I wish I could smoke from the fast pipe that lets you guys do .7's .6's and .5's lol

 

[chuyler1]

Don't you guys think that this track is a bit broken in terms of "corner cutting"? Most if not all tracks have a rule that at any given point two of your tires have to be within that white line. In sector 2 people (including myself because hey.. its faster!) are clearly going off track and running into the grass in order to have a better approach. After the Istanbul like multiple apex turns they are running in the grass again. Let's just call it for what it is... cheating. I really think a patch should have come into place to invalidate laps that break this two tire rule and for anyone who makes contact with the wall at those speeds.. because in real life that would never ever happen on a consistent basis. Your suspension would be destroyed.

I'm totally with you on this but it isn't just 4-wheels off the track that is unrealistic, it can be two wheels. In sector 2 after the big right hand sweeper, everyone puts 2 wheels into the dirt on the following left hand, at 120 MPH! I really don't think curb hopping at that speed is possible. Sure you can throw a wheel or two into the dirt on a tight chicane in real life, but a driver would never attempt it on a high speed turn.

But as my father always said, when in Rome do as the Romans do. Watch the replays and learn the adjusted lines.

 

[Camasi]

Thank you for agreeing with me, at least i know i am not crazy for thinking it! Unfortunately i see your point, i already have adjusted my lines but it just teaches faulty driving practices. No one should be able to enter a turn at over 100 mph at such a slip angle and hope to carry speed throughout the corner exit...let alone maintain grip in the GRASS lol. If you dig a tire into the grass at that speed then your going to spin 99 percent of the time. This is when i get a bit annoyed with GT5 but hey.. it works in game and it is a contest where we are all competing with each other.

I just felt like it should be mentioned. I really don't see a good argument that could ever support this. If you look at the rules of any sanctioned racing series they would call this corner cutting, unfair advantage, dangerous entry, etc. People who do something like that would suffer a drive through/stop go/ or black flag penalty almost immediately.

Keep in mind that digging two tires into the curb can be done and is advantageous, it would just destroy your tires over time. This is why rally drivers avoid doing it too much over a stage because you could easily suffer a puncture.. not to mention degrade the hell out of your tires. Factors that GT5 fails to address... but hey it is getting better .

I just hope that the future patch addresses these issues and that we don't run into this sort of thing again in the future rounds of GT academy.

Sorry for ranting so much i feel like an ass.. i promise this will be the end of it .

 

[Camasi]

I'm totally with you on this but it isn't just 4-wheels off the track that is unrealistic, it can be two wheels. In sector 2 after the big right hand sweeper, everyone puts 2 wheels into the dirt on the following left hand, at 120 MPH! I really don't think curb hopping at that speed is possible.

I also can't fathom how the game allows the car to maintain braking at that point!

 

[Kevdogg716]

Hell all. Im currently 18th NE and 59th Overall. Ive been working on cape for the last couple days and have been improving my time everytime i sit down to race. My fastest is currently 1.46.4 and I know i can break into 1.45 with a little more time. I can basicaly catch myself on every turn. just having trouble stringing them togeather. I have noticed from following some of your ghosts i lose time on T14 and T17. can any of you guys give me some pointers on thoes two turns?

I also wanted to compare how many hours people put into there lap times. I work a full time job and im lucky if i get an hour a day. some days I have a 2 hour session but also some days i dont race at all. I also whent on vacation in the middle so I missed about 2 weeks. I guess what I'm getting at is If I where able to spend more time racing would that improve my times that much? im less than a second behind the #1 time for both track 1 and 2 but barley put any time into it. At this point though i think its best to focus on The 370Z race tuned car on cape ring to prepare for round 2.

Also Anyone else think that it would be better if the competition was your average lap time of 5 laps in a row. That way more skill and consistancy is required. rather than getting a little lucky on a couple turns? I see a good amount of people flying off the track and powersliding into turns and even cutting turns. I understand that is the only way to get a faster lap time. but its not realistic. Just my opinion.

 

[GT Motion]

I am getting frustrated with sector 1. I watch the replays, then take the track myself, my line, shifting, and braking points are matching up with the replays but I am getting low 49's by the time at the end of sector 1 and its frustrating because I heard you all talking about "I restart my lap if its not a 48.xxx", I am trying to figure out which part of sector 1 you all are making up time on, I loaded the ghost and can't determine while driving where the time was lost. I hit the uphill kink turn perfectly in 3rd gear and nail the hairpin but always manage a few tenths away from the 48.xxx, very frustrating.

I'm totally with you on this but it isn't just 4-wheels off the track that is unrealistic, it can be two wheels. In sector 2 after the big right hand sweeper, everyone puts 2 wheels into the dirt on the following left hand, at 120 MPH! I really don't think curb hopping at that speed is possible. Sure you can throw a wheel or two into the dirt on a tight chicane in real life, but a driver would never attempt it on a high speed turn.

Two wheels would punish that car in real life, 4 wheels would mean total loss from barrier impact, the tires are under a lot of load coming into that section, if you were to disrupt the grip with a curb, let alone grass the car is gone. Once the car is in the grass the tires have nothing to hold grip on so the fact that the car can drift out then come back onto the track while gaining speed is a bit far fetched. Its not even the unrealistic part that bothers me though, its that fact that that is indeed the fastest way around the track, and has proven to be the most difficult thing for competitors to have to master to post a competitive time. Its a shame that the hardest part of GT Academy Round 1 is perfecting an unrealistic driving line in the grass.

 

[scir16v]

The one part of the physics model that they have gotten wrong is how the tires interact with different surfaces. Especially the tire model itself. They heat up and lose traction too quick. They seem to have unworldly grip in grass compared to real life. As soon as a tire touches grass and you are under acceleration, you could possibly lose it. Unlike in this game. It seems dependent upon steering angle in relation to the direction of travel.

 

[GT Motion]

The one part of the physics model that they have gotten wrong is how the tires interact with different surfaces. Especially the tire model itself. They heat up and lose traction too quick. They seem to have unworldly grip in grass compared to real life. As soon as a tire touches grass and you are under acceleration, you could possibly lose it. Unlike in this game. It seems dependent upon steering angle in relation to the direction of travel.

If you check the option settings, they have "real" and they have "low" for off track grip. I am not sure what GT Academy is set to, I think they might have had it set to the B.S. settings.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I am getting frustrated with sector 1. I watch the replays, then take the track myself, my line, shifting, and braking points are matching up with the replays but I am getting low 49's by the time at the end of sector 1 and its frustrating because I heard you all talking about "I restart my lap if its not a 48.xxx", I am trying to figure out which part of sector 1 you all are making up time on, I loaded the ghost and can't determine while driving where the time was lost. I hit the uphill kink turn perfectly in 3rd gear and nail the hairpin but always manage a few tenths away from the 48.xxx, very frustrating.

I actually have the same problem. Even with my fastest mid 2:46 lap, I was around a 49.5 at the first sector. I've tried just about everything and the lowest first sector time I've achieved was a 49 flat. I know I'm losing most of that time in T3 but I can never get that corner right no matter how many ghosts I look at or how many attempts.

Two wheels would punish that car in real life, 4 wheels would mean total loss from barrier impact, the tires are under a lot of load coming into that section, if you were to disrupt the grip with a curb, let alone grass the car is gone. Once the car is in the grass the tires have nothing to hold grip on so the fact that the car can drift out then come back onto the track while gaining speed is a bit far fetched. Its not even the unrealistic part that bothers me though, its that fact that that is indeed the fastest way around the track, and has proven to be the most difficult thing for competitors to have to master to post a competitive time. Its a shame that the hardest part of GT Academy Round 1 is perfecting an unrealistic driving line in the grass.

If there's any consolation, at least this track is being used for Round 1 and it won't be seen again in the later rounds.

(I hope)

 

[GT Motion]

I actually have the same problem. Even with my fastest mid 2:46 lap, I was around a 49.5 at the first sector. I've tried just about everything and the lowest first sector time I've achieved was a 49 flat. I know I'm losing most of that time in T3 but I can never get that corner right no matter how many ghosts I look at or how many attempts.If there's any consolation, at least this track is being used for Round 1 and it won't be seen again in the later rounds.

(I hope)

I was able to get a 48 in sector 1, but then was so ecstatic my car was like a space ship at light speed going in to the next few turns and I got well acquainted with the barriers lol

I want to combine my split time with your split time. I was able to post a time of 2:47.1 with a split of 49.3 in sector 1, and I just actually found a HUGE part of where I am losing time. In turn 17 I am hugging the curb going slow, and I don't know why i never really clued in to this before but that turn tightens tremendously on the exit so hugging the curb is causing me to lose exit speed onto one of the longest straights....I face palmed when I just realized that after a few weeks of putting around the track.

I think its because I have done so many restarts early on I never get a lot of practice on the later parts of the course so I am now noticing some stupid things I have been doing haha I hope that will put me in the place I want to be. 👍

 

[Shigegaki]

Hell all. Im currently 18th NE and 59th Overall. Ive been working on cape for the last couple days and have been improving my time everytime i sit down to race. My fastest is currently 1.46.4 and I know i can break into 1.45 with a little more time. I can basicaly catch myself on every turn. just having trouble stringing them togeather. I have noticed from following some of your ghosts i lose time on T14 and T17. can any of you guys give me some pointers on thoes two turns?

I also wanted to compare how many hours people put into there lap times. I work a full time job and im lucky if i get an hour a day. some days I have a 2 hour session but also some days i dont race at all. I also whent on vacation in the middle so I missed about 2 weeks. I guess what I'm getting at is If I where able to spend more time racing would that improve my times that much? im less than a second behind the #1 time for both track 1 and 2 but barley put any time into it. At this point though i think its best to focus on The 370Z race tuned car on cape ring to prepare for round 2.

Also Anyone else think that it would be better if the competition was your average lap time of 5 laps in a row. That way more skill and consistancy is required. rather than getting a little lucky on a couple turns? I see a good amount of people flying off the track and powersliding into turns and even cutting turns. I understand that is the only way to get a faster lap time. but its not realistic. Just my opinion.

Woah, your time is 1 minute faster than anyone has achieved so far. I am frustrated at this whole curb hoping situation because without it, I would be closer to top 128 in West. Only need to shave off another 1.5 seconds so I can go to round 2. Hopefully in round 2, the track selection will not have any tracks you can cut corners in order to secure top times. Hell not even in WRS is that allowed. It's like night and day with GTA.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I was able to get a 48 in sector 1, but then was so ecstatic my car was like a space ship at light speed going in to the next few turns and I got well acquainted with the barriers lol

I want to combine my split time with your split time. I was able to post a time of 2:47.1 with a split of 49.3 in sector 1, and I just actually found a HUGE part of where I am losing time. In turn 17 I am hugging the curb going slow, and I don't know why i never really clued in to this before but that turn tightens tremendously on the exit so hugging the curb is causing me to lose exit speed onto one of the longest straights....I face palmed when I just realized that after a few weeks of putting around the track.

I think its because I have done so many restarts early on I never get a lot of practice on the later parts of the course so I am now noticing some stupid things I have been doing haha I hope that will put me in the place I want to be. 👍

Per the replay theater, my splits for my fastest lap are as follows:

Sector 1: 49.389
Sector 2: 1:26.126
Sector 3: 2:20.149
Total Lap: 2:46.489

Like I said, never ran a 48 at Sector 1. My best runs are when I can get the car to rotate well through T8 so that I can pick up the throttle quickly.

Also, never seen a 1:25 myself at Sector 2. I actually have been able to hit 120 mph at T11 without going into the grassy section although that requires putting two wheels on the dirt at T10. It feels as though I can go through T14 without going under 50 mph but that requires a bit of throttle work.

You are correct that T17 a tight exit so you want to be at least a lane from the curbs but it's getting the car to cut at the right spot which is key. I've had great laps go bad at this corner because the car simply won't turn enough even though I'm going the proper speed.

For a while, I had been able to hit T23 at around 105 mph but now, I can only do 101-103 mph.

For T23-25, my preference is to lightly hold the brake and let the car go to the outside and then really cut the car to the left at T24 to set up for T25. I've tried other methods but my fastest laps has always been this approach.

I actually ran a 2:46.6 tonight so breaking my fast lap by tomorrow is feasible. Yet, there's no real benefit to it since I probably won't find the time to break into the 2:45's.

 

[GT Motion]

2:46.9, I am done, I wanted a 2:46, I got a 2:46. I can't stand Cape or that car with those tires, I am glad this is over.

 

[NWMann]

So the trick to using all of GT5's features is using the data logger through the ghost replays. If you save a replay of one of the fast guys you can load your ghost alongside it in the data analyzer. You will also need a clean ghost of your fast lap, or one that best represents your line and driving style.

So when you have both sets of data, your own and someone who is fast, what you want to do is compare the speed graphs. I like to turn all the other noise off and just have accelerator and brake on the bottom window and speed on the top window. What you are looking for here is the difference in the speed lines.

As the replay runs you can use the video portion to figure out which corner your at in relation to the data. The bigger the gap between the speed lines the more time your losing and you can figure out which corners you need to improve on. You should also be looking to the speed which you apex and seeing if your rotating fast enough, but you most likely are

This basically boosted me another 6 tenths when I took the time to figure out what corners I had to work on. I probably have 3-4 more tenths to gain yet but I am hoping at this point I can sit out the rest and get into round 2.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

2:46.9, I am done, I wanted a 2:46, I got a 2:46. I can't stand Cape or that car with those tires, I am glad this is over.

👍

 

[zr1chris]

I was at a 2:48.058 going into Wednesday or Thursday and now Im up to a 1:47.188

 

[Shigegaki]

This course is so frustrating, even watching the top times. I don't understand how to get under 49 seconds. I only need to shave off 1 second from my cape time to qualify for r2. GT Motion took me around the track this morning but any tips?

 

[zr1chris]

Throttle control, throttle control and more throttle control. You need to maintain as much momentum as possible. What works for me sometimes is i will take the 10th place ghost and just try and stay with him and run the same line. DONT try and gain on him. just run right behind him.

 

[The Cheef]

2:46.9, I am done, I wanted a 2:46, I got a 2:46. I can't stand Cape or that car with those tires, I am glad this is over.

haha said/did the exact same thing about 30 min ago. Got my 46.9, did 3 more laps to see if I could break it, then called it good for round one.

Any bets on our two car/track combinations for next week?

 

[redcouch1212]

haha said/did the exact same thing about 30 min ago. Got my 46.9, did 3 more laps to see if I could break it, then called it good for round one.

Any bets on our two car/track combinations for next week?

No, but I'm glad its only 2 combos. How short is round 2?