Rule change suggestion

[KLR142]

Agree on all acounts, Z.

Casio, the reason I don't necessarily like sharing replays is because I'm lazy. And not everyone has a max drive so they wouldn't be able to benefit from them anyway. Sure, there are an extreme few, and blah blah, but it doesn't really matter I guess. I'm up for whatever. And about the JGTC, yeah, I've done a little speaking with another person too, but nothing relative to anything really. I don't mind the little talking in the back ground either, but it appears there's been a couple people getting annoyed at my discussion of times and how to drive over there, which irked me.

 

[holl01]

Why is this thread still going?

We have circled around a few times now.

What ever the outcome backchannel'ers will continue to swap replays and discuss final times

So basically this poll is for people not in the loop. as the outcome of this poll barely effects back channelers.

agreed, the wrs should be as open and inviting as all other tournaments are, and giving us the option to reveal our final times just makes this wrs look that more appealing i guess, if the times are kept secret, then some people might get a little frustrated or disheartened for the people that are out of the so called 'loop', anyways:tup:

 

[KLR142]

Eh, whatever. Doesn't matter then.

Carry on.

 

[KLR142]

Why is this thread still going?

Possibly because I missed the first bunch of it, and just saw it this evening. And, being a pretty often competitor of this series, I'd love to voice my opinion on the matter.

Now that that's been said. I don't have an opinion on the matter! Argh.

So, you can remove my vote of yes. So, it's currently 20-21, with not changing the rules being ahead.

Then again Neil wants to change his to yes, so, meh.

I don't care.

I don't know if I want to post my final time regularly or not. I definitely enjoy the suprise, but, I don't think I'd care if it weren't such a suprise. that way I wouldn't have to worry so much about the results thread itself and my sometimes not being able to see it right when it's posted...

I might make an MSN account now, but I'm not sure. Don't know if I want to download it and blah blah. I've always been an AIM person. And now I barely use it. I'm online a lot, but I don't talk much.

 

[Tyre King]

I just want to clarify.

I would like to vote YES to laptime discussion, and NO to replays.

I like the idea of lap times without the hundredths and thou's missing.
Rounding up and down to the normal mathmatical rules of.........

59.451-59.550 = 59.5xx
59.551-59.650 = 59.6xx
59.651-59.750 = 59.7xx
etc,etc.........
It still gives up to a full second of mystery and surprise for the results thread!


As this thread has evolved, it is fairly obvious that the simple poll for yes/no to change is inadaquate IMO. Some, like myself, like the idea of lap time discussion, but don't want replay posting. Some like the idea of having both, others don't want either. And a miriad of combinations also exist too.
And again there are a few who want to change their vote or qualify their vote, again including myself!

Maybe another poll, JUST a poll, is needed, with more options..........

Yes to FULL lap time posting
Yes to rounded up/down lap time posting
No to lap time posting

Yes to replay posting
No to replay posting

Sod it, I'm just gonna do it!

This needs to be made easier for all to understand, especially for Cyril, who has the unenviable task of coming to a decision about this. And the way things are going, it's about as clear as mud!

Neil

 

[MisterWeary]

This needs to be made easier for all to understand, especially for Cyril, who has the unenviable task of coming to a decision about this. And the way things are going, it's about as clear as mud!

Agreed 👍

 

[Tyre King]

New poll's up and running,

Here!

Please keep the discussion going in this thread, and keep the posting to a minimum in the new one, as I want it to be as clear and simple for Cyril as possible!

Neil

 

[Kent]

Seems clear and simple here if you ask me.

22 no
21 yes

even with people who voted no for the sake of no replays but yes to laptimes, you end up with a large group of "no" voters who would be alienated by the change.

Plus, this is a rule of tradition and unique character to the WRS.
I would hate to see that become a thing of the past.

 

[Tedehur]

Seems clear and simple here if you ask me.

22 no
21 yes

even with people who voted no for the sake of no replays but yes to laptimes, you end up with a large group of "no" voters who would be alienated by the change.

Yeah.
Your strength Kent is that you are able to draw simple conclusions from complicated things (no offence meant at all, I'm not sure how it sounds).
I'm the exact opposite : I'm very good at turning any binary question (Yes/No) into something inextricable.
I'll give the second poll a few days (Neil, shouldn't you have put a deadline on it ?) to show a tendancy, and I promised I'll try and get something simple out of all this.
Expect a decision by the end of next week-end.

 

[trevisio]

It is certainly very close in the poll voting!

I've often wondered why there are so few posts (relatively) in the WRS thread each week, now I believe it's because most of the discussions go on outside it.

There is nothing wrong with being in "the loop" or "the backchannel" at all, of course. From a sporting point of view however, it should be a level playing field for all, whether it's your 1st week in WRS or your 51st. With the current situation, information that isn't available to a first-timer IS available to others, therefore an unfair sporting situation has been created.

Real life motor racing, in my experience, is all about getting the unfair advantage, so it's no surprise that it has developed here, intentionally or not.
Thing is, some (me!) are already at a skill level disadvantage so don't need any further disadvantages!

The surprise element of not knowing final laptimes only applies to those not in "the loop" anyway, so I think the value of this surprise has gone down.

As the "backchannel" discussions could not and should not be stopped, the only way to have a level playing field for all is to have the same information available to all.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Great post mate

Agreed 👍

and i will chuck some rep your way too

 

[Tyre King]

(these quotes are from the 5 option poll thread, I have brought them across to here because this is where the discussions have been and should be)

I don't like this... It seems to me like this is just another attempt to get the rule change made since the other thread clearly showed (through votes as well as posts) that the rule change had the WRS split 50/50 if not worse.

I say no again but this time with prejudice (as I feel this is just a "recount" sort of attitude and not a necessary means of discussion).

👎

I suppose I could just go with the old saying...
If at first you don't succeed try, try again!
(but I don't like that idea when it comes to subjects like this and voting)

(just seems like this is a "votes didn't go the way he, she, or I, would have liked and so I say "do over")

btw, I don't see how you can one without the other...

If you post a good time it is inevitable that you will have backchannel discussion erupt in order to get that replay out in the open.
So in my opinion, one without the other will probably make the situation even worse than could be.

None the less, I still see this as a "the change didn't work out in the first poll and so let's do it again to get results that support the change."

I can't put more into this right now (gotta go to work).
Until next time,
👎

And I'm sure you would understand that this isn't a presidential race where we have to make a change.

This is a forced rule change suggestion, there is no rule in the WRS saying we had to vote on this rule change.

The comparsion makes me realize that it is possible that 49% of us ARE going to be alienated.

I already feel so and am very sad to see the character lost in the wrs to the idea of being just like every other open leaderbaord.

I thought the comparison to other limited duration races (like bc) would have been enough to show that the WRS should be a T time only discussion. ( in bc you don't discuss final times unless it's on back channel, generally speaking of course).

In any case, I'm done here.
I can see that the "No" vote is not going to pass even if it is the majority (which I doubt it will be this time since it is most likely that the "Yes" voters are going to be the most persistant and willing to stick around for the fight).

Atleast this event will teach me just what it feels like to feel as if you wrongfully lost a vote. 👎

Why do you feel threatened by the new poll Kent?

There is nothing nefarious going on by doing this, it is plainly and simply an attempt to clarify the situation for Cyril.

A 49/51% vote situation is obviously even-handed, and as some of us either want to change our vote or want to qualify our vote with a yes for one and no for the other (lap-times/replays) then some further options would take this into account.

It is in no way an attempt to get the vote to change in favor of more 'yes' votes, and so 'alienate' one faction from another.

And I am puzzled by your attitude, why is this a personal attack on you?, and how would anyone be 'alienated'?

We ALL have an opinion, and we ALL have the right to express it. Whichever way this pans out, I am sure that 99% of the people on here will continue to race here.

Unfortunately you seem to see this as something aimed at you because you voted for no change, it isn't!

There is an old saying that goes something like this: "Just becuase I am paranoid, doesn't mean that someone isn't out to get me"

In this case no-one is out to get you, honest! And maybe you should address these feelings of being persecuted with a proffessional.

If I have offended you, then so be it. And for what it's worth, I am sorry for doing so. But it is obvious that you have 'issues'

Neil

 

[KLR142]

I appreciate the posting of the second poll Neil, I will be voting NO, to everything. If people want to hop on the "backchannel", they're more than welcome to. Maybe an addition to the rules making it more clear that discussion outside of the thread is ok would be good though.

 

[KLR142]

and i will chuck some rep your way too

Oh, and I don't get any for my long posts? Were they really that bad?

Just messing around, but these rep points things are sometimes quite annoying.

 

[KLR142]

Well, I read the thread part after I only used one selection to vote. But, if I voted to NO times posting, that would imply that you can't post replays either.

*sigh* to this whole topic. It can go either way and I won't cry.

 

[MisterWeary]

*sigh* to this whole topic. It can go either way and I won't cry.

Amen 👍

 

[Tedehur]

I just realized I hadn't posted on this topic after the poll has ended.

My vote was 'Yes, freely discuss laptimes in the thread', but my decision is the opposite. The WRS rules are not carved in stone but they can only be adapted to meet the racers wishes. It'd be stupid to change a core rule of the WRS when the votes result in a rough balance.

So, lap time discussions stay prohibited in the thread. Yet, since there's no way to prevent backchannel discussion, and to give every racer access to the same information, I'm being a little bit more specific in the rules, and some racers have been adding a link to their current laptime in their sig.
Those who want to know, click, those who don't want, don't click.

 

[Kent]

Sounds good to me Cyril.
I just couldn't come to terms with such a dramatic change to a racing series that is such a main-stay here on the gtp.

Just one question though?
With Weary having his lap in his sig, does that mean racing from him will have no limits in the discussion?
(I hope not)

All the same.

 

[Tedehur]

With Weary having his lap in his sig, does that mean racing from him will have no limits in the discussion?
(I hope not)

All the same.

I hope not too.
Remember I took a decision that is opposite to my vote.

The WRS does not belong to its steward, that's rather the other way around : the steward only has the functions of a caretaker or a guide, not a monarch.
And the next steward will enforce that conception too

 

[Casio]

and some racers have been adding a link to their current laptime in their sig.
Those who want to know, click, those who don't want, don't click.

I've taken the decision to remove that from my signature, because I think it didn't work, and encouraged anti-social behavior.

First, I think Colby and I were the only ones who actually had our final time in our signature, it would have worked better if everyone did it. There is not much point of most D3 and some D2 guys knowing times that are going to be much faster then theirs, so it only benefited the maybe 10 people who are around our speed.

Second, I thought if someone wanted to know my time, they can just ask me. Anyone can add me to MSN, E-Mail or PM me, I don't mind. But least I then get the chance to ask what their time is. Rather then, when I say 'Ime Tin'. Looking at my final time, then going out to beat it by .001.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

^^^
anybody wants mine, I'll trade
I like the idea, but if half are hardcore against it, then they should'nt have to see 'em

 

[MisterWeary]

I felt guilty that some people felt "out of the loop" and I don't want that. So like my sig. said it was in the interest of some sort of equity but I'm happy to remove it, it'll be out of date any way for some time since racing is at the bottom of my priority list for the moment 👍