Man, what a ****storm I caused with my comments about Katyn.
Sorry if I don't respond to all of you, my time for forum wars is limited.
Okay, but who are all these people then, marching across cities of Ukraine every 1st of January? Putin's undercover agents with torchlights?
And I'll remind that Kyiv and other cities of Ukraine have streets named after this person.
You're missing the Schutzmannschaft Bataillon 201, that was once commanded by Roman Shukhevych (another national hero of Ukraine), subordinated to SS and formed from Nachtigal and Roland battalions that mostly consisted of OUN-B members. This time they were the official part of German forces.
Ukraine had real heroes in its history, but of all of them it chose these scumbags to be proud of. If this was all just to say "**** you" to Russians, they were 100% successful with that.
What's difficult in installing VPN and turning it on? I'm used to this a long time ago, since I started playing one Japanese browser game that requires a Japanese IP for access.
That doesn't stop ordinary internet users from discussing and criticising the Russian operation.
@Liquid had never been on those Russian forums and social media but judges about them like he's an expert who knows more about RuNet than its actual users.
And you think Ukraine or West behave any differently here? Are you sure their propaganda doesn't lie or distort facts? I can provide examples if you want.
Wars aren't fought without propaganda. It's been like that for hundreds of years.
No, but how does it stop me from reading Facebook, Twitter or other blocked sources?
It's the memory of Russian (and also Ukrainian, Belorussian, Tatar, Kazakh, Armenian, Jewish and of many other ethnicities of the USSR) soldiers who fought the Nazis in Poland and sacrificed their lives in the process, not of the communist regime. These are different things, is it so hard to understand?
No need to lecture me on history, I knew it all long before I started this thread.
It was explainable that USSR covered up the real story of Katyn during the war - it was not the best time to quarrel with the allies. The US also did their own investigation, but they kept the results in secret until the Cold War.
Also I find it funny how Poles first say "You invaded us, we didn't ask you to liberate us!" but then "You didn't help us during the Warsaw uprising!". Oh, but you guys said "Polska strong" and that you could have liberated yourself on your own, so why all those complaints about Warsaw, mmm?
Indeed there is a theory that Red Army waited on purpose for the Polish resistance (the main force of which was Armia Krajowa, that was hostile to Nazis and Soviets alike) to be wiped out by the Germans, because AK would be the next enemy after the defeat of Nazis, and would possibly shoot the Russians in the back after the capture of Warsaw. However, the more official story says that the Soviet troops of the 1st Belorussian Front (commanded by Marshal Konstantin Rokossowski, who was an ethnic Pole, by the way) had to pull up reserves and supply lines before assaulting the Polish capital, but the Soviet Air Force did provide support by dropping supplies to the Polish partisans.
And what's bad about it?
Sanctions are a game that can be played PvP. Poland was the earlier one to impose sanctions, and its disrespect to the memory of Soviet soldiers is more than a justified reason for Russia to retaliate. No need to expect RF to leave it unanswered.
I didn't say it does.
No, why'd you think I believe so?
I am well aware that Poland is a historic enemy of Russia, for over 400 years at least. Many Poles dislike Russia nowadays for things happened a long time ago, and my feelings toward the Polish state are mutual.
Yes, and?
More like, moved Poland a bit to the west.
After the WWII, the USSR took a lot more lands from Germany than just East Prussia (where Koenigsberg became Kaliningrad), but Stalin gave them to Poland as a compensation for the East Kresy (Galicia, Volhynia, etc). This is how Stettin became Szczecin, Danzig became Gdansk, Breslau became Wroclaw and so on.
And look who still occupies the illegally annexed Polish lands with cities of Lwow (now Lviv), Tarnopol (Ternopil), Stanislawow (Ivano-Frankivsk). It's Ukraine! Not Russia.
What an irony - the communists Ukraine hates so much were the ones who made Ukraine so big.
Excuse me, why should the Soviets have RED lighted the German invasion of Poland?
Poland didn't want to be protected by the Soviets - shortly before WWII, the USSR suggested Poland to form an alliance against Germany, but Poland rejected. A lot of other European powers had signed non-agression treaties with Germany (
including Poland!), no need to forget that when blaming the USSR for Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Poland also annexed a part of Czechoslovakia when Britain and France fed it to Hitler in Munich, '38. So, if you say USSR was a German ally before the war, then Poland was, too.
The Soviet invasion of Poland in September 1939 happened 16 days later than the German, and by that time, Polish army was already done for. The government already ran away, and the Red Army barely faced any resistance when they stepped into Poland.
Was the USSR nobly defending Poland from the Nazis, as some people think? No. The Soviets acted under their own interests, to seize these lands to be an extra 'bumper' for the future invasion from the west. There's nothing noble about it - its like taking shoes from a dead man (Poland was already dead as a state by September, 17th). Still, it wouldn't be better for anyone if Nazis captured these territories instead (especially the Jews, who were a large part of Lwow population).
Sorry to disappoint you, but this photo is 4 days old. The locomotive
derailed because of eroded ground under the rails.
It was a single locomotive, but Ukrainian propaganda says it carried 'military equipment and ammunition'. Well, there must be a lot of ammo a single locomotive can carry...
No wonder - they're in desperate need for victories to claim. And it works on people who don't bother even google-searching the image.
