Russian Invasion of Ukraine

  • Thread starter Rage Racer
  • 10,148 comments
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R3V
Out of all the responses I saw, yours is just not reasonable. Are you seriously suggesting that a neighbboring country declaring an intention to join your "enemies" is like a preschol fight? Seriously?...
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I disagree, but that's cool. I'm not here to change minds or alter opinions, only offering my perspective. That perspective is driven by the following:

Putin/Russia loves western money, retreats, goods, services, tourists, global economic inclusion, etc. Putin/Russia does NOT love the rules. Putin/Russia behaves as if rules do not apply to them. When a large purveyor/provider of all those loved things has expressed disapproval, Putin/Russia stomps feet and does what they want anyway.

IMHO, yes, childish, in simplest of terms. To me, it all just feels very:
butterfly.gif

And by that I mean, I don't think it matters who/where/what is is, y'all gonna make an excuse to blow stuff up and get your way...while millions suffer the wake of your temper-tantrum.

:cheers:
 
R3V
Timeline:
No-ink but public agreement not to expand NATO
NATO expands
Russian aggression towards the west begins
Ukraine being a red line is "meddled with" by the west
Ukraine and west refuse to publicly promise stay "neutral"
War
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No ink agreements are meaningless. I can agree to do anything but unless it's in writing it doesn't matter, this is especially true at the geopolitical level.

Russia has been aggressive towards the west longer than NATO has been around and depending on what you consider "the west" it has been aggressive towards its for hundreds of years.

Ukraine had no obligation to publically promise to remain neutral, nor did the West. Also, not remaining neutral isn't a casus belli for war, even though Russia's asinine way of thinking believes it is.
 
inCloud
Possible white phosphorus was used in Mariupol.
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Those are incendiary warheads for Grad rockets - MZ-21 (9M22S), but they're not white phosphorus (they use a different incendiary compound in magnesium alloy jackets).

In 2014, Russia also accused Ukraine of using white phosphorus, but it was most likely the same type of ammunition.

inCloud
Renault facility in Russia going under Moscow control and would be called Moskvitch.
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Panorama predicts the future again! :D
I guess it's going to be Renault Logan with Moskvitch badge... Let's see.
unit-one


Ukraine won the Eurovision Song Contest thanks to the public votes taking 1st place from United Kingdom.

Russian military answer?
Writings on the bombs that will be dropped on Mariupol.

This one has Kalusha's quote asking for help.
View attachment 1150119

"# Eurovision 2022. I heard a ZOV to **** aZOV."
(ZOV are three tactical marks of Russian forces arranged this way to sound like a Russian word "zov" - зов - call.)
"I heard a call to **** Azov."

View attachment 1150120

"Kalusha, just like you asked! # To Azovsteel."

View attachment 1150127
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Looks like it had an effect - reportedly, the Azov regiment from Azovstal is surrendering. Over 50 wounded soldiers are transported to hospitals on DPR-controlled territory.
 
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First the UK and States, then the other Nordic countries, now France with security guarantees for the Finland-Sweden pair... it's almost looking like Turkey is the odd one out acting out of line, for what exactly? A dire need for free reign to persecute Kurds all over the world? Well, nobody ever said authoritarian ***** had good understanding of priorities, otherwise we wouldn't have this inhuman war to begin with.
 
Carbonox
it's almost looking like Turkey is the odd one out acting out of line, for what exactly?
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Erdogan alleges Sweden and other Scandinavian countries have been supporting Kurdish militants, that Sweden has been harboring extremist Kurdish militant groups, and that 6 Swedes of Kurdish origin are members of parliament. PKK and YPG have been designated terrorists by Turkey. Also, Erdogan has a pragmatic relationship with Russia, among other things, acting as mediator between Russia and Ukraine and hosting peace talks. Turkey is a major trading partner with Russia, and does not support sanctions.
 
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R3V
Did I miss any hint of threat to the west in the 90's? It took Russia an extremely long time to recover from the post-soviet looting. They were a threat to no one. Other than Chechnya, what did post-soviet Russia do?
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Actually there where discussion and suggestions from NATO that Russia should join too
 
McDonalds has left Russia. Permanently.

McDonalds opening in Moscow was a big deal back in 1990. It opened Russia up to the rest of the world. I think leaving is equally symbolic.

 
Dotini
Erdogan alleges Sweden and other Scandinavian countries have been supporting Kurdish militants, that Sweden has been harboring extremist Kurdish militant groups, and that 6 Swedes of Kurdish origin are members of parliament. PKK and YPG have been designated terrorists by Turkey. Also, Erdogan has a pragmatic relationship with Russia, among other things, acting as mediator between Russia and Ukraine and hosting peace talks. Turkey is a major trading partner with Russia, and does not support sanctions.
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Since these accusations have no basis in reality it seems like he is protesting on behalf of Putin.
 
O604
McDonalds has left Russia. Permanently.

McDonalds opening in Moscow was a big deal back in 1990. It opened Russia up to the rest of the world. I think leaving is equally symbolic.

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Wasn't there a story that Russia was taking over all the McDonald's anyway & operate them as they saw fit? Surely, that made it easier for McDonald's to just leave altogether.
 
Rage Racer
Azov regiment from Azovstal is surrendering.
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264 out of ~600 were evacuated, considering Azovstal defenders aren't 100% from Azov regiment we could guess those weren't from Azov(aside from injured). DPR soliders hate Azov and most likely would kill them if they surrender.

McLaren
Wasn't there a story that Russia was taking over all the McDonald's anyway & operate them as they saw fit? Surely, that made it easier for McDonald's to just leave altogether.
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Nationalization isn't a thing yet in most cases, aside from aviation. In current situation foreign business trying to sell all assets as fast as possible to anyone who could buy it.
 
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McLaren
Wasn't there a story that Russia was taking over all the McDonald's anyway & operate them as they saw fit? Surely, that made it easier for McDonald's to just leave altogether.
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McDonalds leaving is symbolic. The point isn't about hamburgers. It's about the 1st major foreign investment which opened the doors to Russia back in 1990. Citizens won't even notice if McDonalds or Coca Cola are gone. But the foreign investment they enjoyed in the past 3 decades is gone.

Russians of course won't understand the symbolic nature of it. They will twist it around to "Russophobia" like in the case of Chanel. It's just an inconvenience to them.

www.nytimes.com

The Shock of Chopping Up a Chanel Bag (Published 2022)

A show of righteous patriotism or a display of heedless privilege?
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
So:

MSN

www.msn.com


Did Russia lean on Erdogan? Because it certainly is very interesting that Russia openly threatened military action against Finland (in particular) and Sweden for literally months, going so far as to post threats on their government Twitter account way back in February; but now that Erdogan is throwing his toys out over the weekend after Sweden and Finland both formally applied it's suddenly no big thing.
 
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Tornado
So:

MSN

www.msn.com


Did Russia lean on Erdogan? Because it certainly is very interesting that Russia openly threatened military action against Finland (in particular) and Sweden for literally months, going so far as to post threats on their government Twitter account way back in February; but now that Erdogan is throwing his toys out over the weekend after Sweden and Finland both formally applied it's suddenly no big thing.
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Might have been the other way around and Turkey was leaning on Russia to use scare tactics. I wonder if Erdogan tries to do more to make sure it doesn't go through.
 
Tornado
So:

MSN

www.msn.com


Did Russia lean on Erdogan? Because it certainly is very interesting that Russia openly threatened military action against Finland (in particular) and Sweden for literally months, going so far as to post threats on their government Twitter account way back in February; but now that Erdogan is throwing his toys out over the weekend after Sweden and Finland both formally applied it's suddenly no big thing.
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Well, it can't be a big thing. If it was a big thing, Russia would have to do something about it. I don't think Russia can afford to do that, so now it's not a big thing. They are, however, now in the awkward position of having done something about the big thing (IE NATO expansion) which caused an arguably bigger thing and then saying that the bigger big thing isn't a big thing but the little big thing was cause for war.

Of course, if you just say that Russia invaded Ukraine for pure plunder and internal political reasons, there is no contradiction.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Of course, if you just say that Russia invaded Ukraine for pure plunder and internal political reasons, there is no contradiction.
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Maybe we'll find out one day ... maybe not. Does anyone really understand to this day why the US (& Britain & others) invaded Iraq? It seems clear that this was a giant miscalculation on the part of Putin - any possible benefits to Russia far outweighed by the negatives. Among other things it has demonstrated in a very public way that Russia's armed forces aren't the power they might have been perceived to be.
 
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Once Europe gets desperate enough. The easiest and obvious solution is going to be to blow up Russian oil refineries and pipelines. If they aren't going to sell it to you.... why should they be able to sell it someone else?

Europe doesn''t need to fight Russia. They only need to fight Gazprom, Rostneft, etc... And it would literally be to save the environment from the largest climate change denying oil companies.
 
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O604
Europe doesn''t need to fight Russia. They only need to fight Gazprom, Rostneft, etc...
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O604
Once Europe gets desperate enough. The easiest and obvious solution is going to be to blow up Russian oil refineries and pipelines.
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These are two massive contradictions. Blowing up Russian oil refineries, pipelines and depots will lead to open war with Russia, the thing you say doesn't need to happen.
 
O604
Once Europe gets desperate enough. The easiest and obvious solution is going to be to blow up Russian oil refineries and pipelines. If they aren't going to sell it to you.... why should they be able to sell it someone else?

Europe doesn''t need to fight Russia. They only need to fight Gazprom, Rostneft, etc... And it would literally be to save the environment from the largest climate change denying oil companies.
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It would be easier to just stop buying their oil and gas. And even that is pretty hard, because it takes time to switch to other energy sources.
 
eran0004
It would be easier to just stop buying their oil and gas. And even that is pretty hard, because it takes time to switch to other energy sources.
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To clarify my earlier post by "get desperate enough" I'm talking if Russia stops selling to Europe entirely.
 
Video of uncertain provenance seems to show slow and uneven shifting of front lines in the south and east. The conflict appears to currently be approaching a stalemate. Russia appears to have lost too many forces to continue any significant offensive operations. Perhaps Ukraine will eventually mount a counterattack and drive the exhausted Russians away? But probably no swift military resolution is currently available. Is the time for a cease fire approaching? Meanwhile, the entire network of gas pipelines from Russia to Europe seems to be in the process of shutting down - except for Nord Stream 1.

 

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