Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[SMfan]

There's some info came up, about the "attacking separatists" were provocateurs, wearing both George ribbons and red bands like Right Sector uses. Hmm...

They wore those red bands openly, and massively. It was a sign.
If it was the RS they wouldn't wanna signify that, would they? It's like #визитка_яроша all over again.
Also, some cops wore those same red bands.

Oh and here's a nice vid by project REALITY about the preparation for the fight.
Unfortunately, there are no interviews with the agressive dudes from either side, and most of the vid showcases the pro-Ukrainian fighters, but that beginning looks mighty interesting.



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As Ilya Azar is saying, the new police chief (or whatever you call the head of the police of a city) is talking to people at the moment. Finally something constructive. If he talks well enough we may not have more murder and mayhem in Odessa tonight. Let's hope for the best.

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Oh, and here's that report by a Novaya writer Olga Bobrova:

http://www.novayagazeta.ru/politics/63453.html

*ATTENTION* Text in Russian, sorry. Maybe at least 3-4 people here will be able to read.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Would you care to explain visitka yarosha (визитка яроша)? Thanks

 

[SMfan]

Would you care to explain visitka yarosha (визитка яроша)? Thanks

Here's a lil' explanation:
http://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/...aganda-spawns-a-new-internet-meme-344412.html

Btw, they failed to mention that the card was "found" in a completely burnt-out car.

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Crap, looks like the Right Sector (the totally 100% actual RS) is moving towards Kulikovo - the place where most of the people got killed 2 days ago. If the cops lose control now, it will go really bad. And I'm not sure they ever had control. Some reporter saw a rifle in the hands of one of the RS-ers.

The RS seem to be the moving force of a bigger crowd.
The Maidan leaders (non-radicals) fear possible RS provocations.

They're burning a Soviet flag.

"Odessa Self-Defense" (pro-Ukraine) is defending the flowers and candles from any provocations. Those flowers and candle were put there by pro-Russians activists and families to commemorate the deaths of 30-something people from their side.

So far, so good.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Спасибо (means thanks)


Another thing, isn't communism far left wing? I'm hardly surprised by that, except that the right sector has the supports that they do.

 

[SMfan]

Спасибо (means thanks)


Another thing, isn't communism far left wing?

Yep.

I'm hardly surprised by that, except that the right sector has the supports that they do.

Maybe there's something wrong with my reading abilities today, but I'm not quite sure what you said there.
Are you surprised by the number of people who support the RS?
Well, it's not really that big. It's just that now the Maidan and the RS usually join forces. That, of course, means that Maidan is not against the RS, but if any confrontation between the two is to be had it's only after the end of the "war against Russians". For now they are united against the pro-Russians, separatists etc.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

The whole thing has quite a few factions, so forgive me for being slightly confused, but I thought the Maidan was mainly aimed at becoming more democratic and beginning to trade more with E.U.? Because, currently, I am hearing that the civilians wanted accountability in the government, I am confused as to how even a minute population of правий сектор hardliners got involved...

As I see it, the Praviy sector would benefit from fighting against the pro-Russians - wait, I just figured it out.

I'm an idiot

 

[SMfan]

The whole thing has quite a few factions, so forgive me for being slightly confused, but I thought the Maidan was mainly aimed at becoming more democratic and beginning to trade more with E.U.? Because, currently, I am hearing that the civilians wanted accountability in the government, I am confused as to how even a minute population of правий сектор hardliners got involved...

As I see it, the Praviy sector would benefit from fighting against the pro-Russians - wait, I just figured it out.

I'm an idiot

Hehehe, I think you got it.

A common enemy is the easiest way to unite opposing parties. Just look at Ukrainian football fans.
They used to have fights prior to games, now every match is preceeded by a united march, no matter which two teams are playing.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Yeah. My guess, now that I have some idea of what's going on, is that the civilians will support RS until the RF is gone/done/tired/bored... Then kick the RS out after.

That is certainly what I want to see..

 

[Rage Racer]

I thought of #ВизиткаЯроша, too. Something fishy. That's probably another sign, not RS. But this could have been a provocation, maybe from a pro-Maidan force. Or a provocation of a provocation... Who knows. Damn, my head is cracking here of this ####.

Another thing, isn't communism far left wing? I'm hardly surprised by that, except that the right sector has the supports that they do.

Actually, RS is destroying Lenin statues and other Soviet symbols, call to ban all communist parties, and yell about exterminating them physically (Коммуняку на гiляку! - "[Hang] commie on a branch!").

So, commies and Pravoseks ("Pravosexuals" or "Rightsexuals" if I translate it to English) are VERY far from friends, they just share one color (red).

Yeah. My guess, now that I have some idea of what's going on, is that the civilians will support RS until the RF is gone/done/tired/bored... Then kick the RS out after.

That is certainly what I want to see..

It's not that easy to kick the Nazis when they're already in power. They are armed, they won't hesitate to use violence any time they want, and they'll suppress any dissidence in their controlled state.

 

[GTracer98]

Obama is planning more sanctions for Russia, no surprise there.

I read the chaos in Odesa was actually financed by Ukraine's ex prime-minister Serhiy Arbuzov.

 

[Rage Racer]

In Soviet Russia, you are sanctioned for trying to de-escalate the crisis and calling to punish the criminals. Awesome.

 

[GTracer98]

In Soviet Russia, you are sanctioned for trying to de-escalate the crisis and calling to punish the criminals. Awesome.

Pretty much, eh? Well, without exageration: the Russian Federation also has contributed to the crisis.

 

[Rage Racer]

Pretty much, eh? Well, without exageration: the Russian Federation also has attributed to the crisis.

The Crimean crisis - maybe. But now, there's no reason for extending the sanctions. This is not Moscow who is responsible for the victims in Sloviansk, Kramatorsk and Odessa.

 

[GTracer98]

The Crimean crisis - maybe. But now, there's no reason for extending the sanctions. This is not Moscow who is responsible for the victims in Sloviansk, Kramatorsk and Odessa.

True.

I'm always scared to take this position that doesn't blame only Russia for this because whenever I go in the comments section of my favourite news website, I see how Latvians hate Russians, call them idots, unintelligent bastards who are the only problem in Ukraine: "Get rid of them and Ukraine will be fine." Yeah right...

 

[SMfan]

Russians aren't directly involvelved in anything at this point (unless proven otherwise). There's definitely some involvement of Yanuk's friends, however. I mean, in certain places the authoruties practically helped people to storm buildings and loot military stores. I doubt that they're doing it without a "nod" from across the border, where Yanukovich is stored lives now.

The most interesting thing is, as reported by a few journalists, most people (60-70%) in Donetsk don't realy care about what's going on. Same thing for some other cities in the East. Just in case, I remember it was Yulia Latynina specifically talking about that.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

@Rage Racer, yes that was my point.


But, it is classic warfare... You wait until the end to one war before beginning another. The government would be weak...

You and your country should understand that better than anyone - October Revolution was the perfect example of this. WWI weakened the Tsarist regime, while Lenin became stronger. The Tsarist soldiers were in Prussia, when Lenin was in Moscow....

 

[Rage Racer]

BTW, the mob who burned the union building in Odessa was also firing guns on the people trying to escape. Some of the dead bodies in the house had gunshot wounds on them. And there was a fireman who tried to enter the building and rescue the people, but was killed by two gunshots in the back.

I see how Latvians hate Russians, call them idots, unintelligent bastards who are the only problem in Ukraine: "Get rid of them and Ukraine will be fine." Yeah right...

I remember the Jews were the only problem in Germany in the '30s, too.

The most interesting thing is, as reported by a few journalists, most people (60-70%) in Donetsk don't realy care about what's going on. Same thing for some other cities in the East. Just in case, I remember it was Yulia Latynina specifically talking about that.

Latynina? The Arrow of Oscillograph?

@Rage Racer
But, it is classic warfare... You wait until the end to one war before beginning another. The government would be weak...

Not so simple. The junta sitting in Kiev is about to recieve some more military support from the West. If Putin wants to strike, he better do it ASAP. The Ukrainian Armed Forces won't make any serious resistance to an RGF brigade, no need to wait for them to "weaken".

 

[SMfan]

BTW, the mob who burned the union building in Odessa was also firing guns on the people trying to escape. Some of the dead bodies in the house had gunshot wounds on them. And there was a fireman who tried to enter the building and rescue the people, but was killed by two gunshots in the back.

Source?
Seen reports of gunshots from both sides.
Maidan people trying to rescue those in the building by bringing ladders say they were fired at from the building.

Latynina? The Arrow of Oscillograph?

Scuse me? No, really, I have no idea what you said there.

Not so simple. The junta sitting in Kiev is about to recieve some more military support from the West.

Come on. Junta? Yeah, the Kiev dudes are f'ed up, but you're just going full-D.Kiselyov. They are the official reps of Kiev right now, just like Kremlin people represent Russia, after the so-frickin-awesome elections. And again, Rada is still the same as it was in the Yanukovich days.
Y'know, I'm all for recognizing the problems of the current people in power there (which there are lots of), but "junta" is a propaganda trick.

Just in case, "junta" means: a government led by a committee of military leaders. [wiki]

I should also add, that calling many people in Odessa separatists is also wrong (which I mighta done), and, yeah, many of them were just afraid of the new government, but didn't actually wanna join Russia.

 

[SniperRed3]

one question why are no one stopping Russia invading Ukraine?

 

[Rage Racer]

Source?

Mykola the Sotnik.

And the fireman was mentioned on the TV. Not 100% sure if true though...

Scuse me? No, really, I have no idea what you said there.

http://lurkmore.to/Стрелка_осциллографа

Come on. Junta? Yeah, the Kiev dudes are f'ed up, but you're just going full-D.Kiselyov.

Aww... Yeah, I'm just rephrasing our mainstream media.
I know, It's not a junta in a classic definition.

I should also add, that calling many people in Odessa separatists is also wrong (which I mighta done), and, yeah, many of them were just afraid of the new government, but didn't actually wanna join Russia.

Hmm, I thought the rest of the "separatists" are just against the new government, and joining RF is not their primary target, too.

one question why are no one stopping Russia invading Ukraine?

Excuse me? Russia invading Ukraine? Where?
(Crimea doesn't count - it's not Ukraine anymore. )

 

[SniperRed3]

Eastern ukraine is falling to the same troops that took crimea

 

[Dotini]

Eastern ukraine is falling to the same troops that took crimea

Maybe not quite.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/w...0140504&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=52243253&_r=2

 

[Rage Racer]

Eastern ukraine is falling to the same troops that took crimea

Lolwut? Any proof? Any GAZ Tigr car? Any AK-74M on those troops?
Any other Russian equipment that Ukraine can't have?

UPD: Ukrainian media reports of another Mi-24 chopper taken down by the rebels.

 

[SMfan]

And the fireman was mentioned on the TV. Not 100% sure if true though...

Yeah, I wanted to know about the fireman story. No doubt that there were guns there - dozens of pics and vids. The fureman thing, however... Especially weird cause I watched the first fire brigade arrive live and saw nuttn like that.

http://lurkmore.to/Стрелка_осциллографа

Ehh, aight. Not the biggest fan of lurkmore's s**t-on-everything style of writing, but I think I got it.

Hmm, I thought the rest of the "separatists" are just against the new government, and joining RF is not their primary target, too.

Yep, I was correcting myself there.

Eastern ukraine is falling to the same troops that took crimea

There are some trained men in Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, but not many, and they certainly ain't Russian army. You can speculate on who these men are but theres yet to be any proof of them being literally sent by Russia.

 

[SniperRed3]

Even though they look just like the people who took over crimea and use the same tactics and putin said he did invade crimea

 

[Rage Racer]

Even though they look just like the people who took over crimea

What, you can't see any difference between those

and these?

Ah yeah, they all wear camouflage and carry AK's! They must be the same army!

and use the same tactics

What tactics? Do they have any armored vehicles (besides the six BMD's recieved from defected Ukrainian soldiers)?

 

[SMfan]

Even though they look just like the people who took over crimea and use the same tactics and putin said he did invade crimea

DIfferent uniforms.
Tactics not same: the "Green men" in Crimea kept it very clean. Several people were murdered and tortured in Slavyansk and Kramatorsk.

And again, no evidence yet of Russian soldiers there.

Conflicting info on where they got the weapons: some say they robbed Ukrainian military storage facilities, others - that they got it from Russia. Not sure bout that.

 

[SniperRed3]

just keep convincing yourselves that your clean but no russia is clearly invading and no one is doing anything about it what case have you seen people who want a revolution act in such a way road blocks taking over places of statigical importance

 

[Rage Racer]

just keep convincing yourselves that your clean but no russia is clearly invading

Blah blah blah.
Where are the proofs?

what case have you seen people who want a revolution act in such a way road blocks taking over places of statigical importance

What, you need to be extremely clever to figure out that you need to do so?

Tactics not same: the "Green men" in Crimea kept it very clean. Several people were murdered and tortured in Slavyansk and Kramatorsk.

Hmm... For real?

Conflicting info on where they got the weapons: some say they robbed Ukrainian military storage facilities, others - that they got it from Russia. Not sure bout that.

Well, there's no single gun that couldn't be picked up from the local warehouses.
FSB or GRU picked old Soviet-made guns and delivered so many of them through the border closed by Ukraine-loyal border troops? I doubt that.

 

[SMfan]

just keep convincing yourselves that your clean

Are you sure, you're not the one convincing yourself?