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70 years later...
Russian Invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter Rage Racer
- 10,148 comments
- 614,053 views
70 years later...
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
The first one is a Russian soldier in WW2? I have never seen that uniform before.
More on-topic: is there any indication that there is a civil war in progress or imminent? It seems a bit more like political manoeuvres to attempt to intimidate without a war. I'm hoping....
More on-topic: is there any indication that there is a civil war in progress or imminent? It seems a bit more like political manoeuvres to attempt to intimidate without a war. I'm hoping....
- 4,573
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It's not a real Red Army uniform, but it was supposed to show a Soviet soldier in the WW2, yes.
Actually, the war is fully going on in the cities of Donbass (Sloviansk, Kramatorsk, Konstantinovka, etc). Dozens of KIAs and even civilian casualties reported.
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
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- Kitchener
that's terrible
- 1,046
- Nottingham
The first picture is from eastern Ukraine as stated but you can argue about that as it's the only real thing that isn't certain. At the end of the day the Ukrainian army will be unable to subdue the rebels, then kill one to many. Next Russia will get more involved on the pretence that they are protecting innocent Russian speaking civilians are being persecuted by the Ukrainians and need to intervene. Then the whole of Ukraine will be part of Russia.
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Who told you that?
I can post a picture of NATO soldiers in their home base and claim that they're fighting for Ukraine, following your logic.
DOUBLE FACEPALM.
You have completely no idea what's going on and who populates various parts of Ukraine.
- 1,046
- Nottingham
Well it's probably not going to be as simple as that because the west is leaning to the EU and the East to Russia and Crimea is all ready gone so it's going to be a split even. Oh and do show me NATO Solider with a Digital Floral Camouflage.
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I meant "fighting for Ukrainian government", not against it. So they can't be similar to the Polite Troops in Crimea.
Of course it was a sarcasm, but the Ukrainian army really has Humvees today. It can be argued who actually invades Ukraine - Russia or America.
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
Actually, in high school, some members of Canadian armed forces wore digital floral camouflage while attending. My uncle, too, although not at the high school.
Are you actually going to say that the type of camouflage determines the army? Many armies have similar camouflage, except the UN - with the blue helmets etc.
In actuality, the numerous desertions mentioned in this thread provide proof that only a soldier's intentions determine their choice in army. If the soldiers don't want to fight that war or the other side, they won't.
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- 1,737
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- Ettick_
The camouflage pattern does determine the army though. NATO and Russia only share Multicam and German Flecktarn, neither of which are digital patterns. The ones they don't share seem entirely dissimilar, to me at least.
I'm not saying that people can't go out and buy some camo from another country and wear it, but if someone isn't wearing a camo pattern issued by a certain country chances are they aren't in that country's military.
I'm not saying that people can't go out and buy some camo from another country and wear it, but if someone isn't wearing a camo pattern issued by a certain country chances are they aren't in that country's military.
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- Rage_Racer_VOLK
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It's not even about camo patterns. He posted a Crimean photo and tried to prove me that these soldiers are Donbass militia. 
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
But, I mean, the camouflage does make little difference in distinguishing people once the bullets start flying. It's not like someone would wear desert camouflage in a forest. Typically, flags and things sewn on to the uniform tell more about that than the colour - everyone would have similar colours in order to blend with the surroundings. Obviously.
My point is, though, that it is entirely possible for people to remove the flag from the uniform when deserting that army for another. They would use the camouflage for its intended purpose....
Edit: and Rage has a point, too.
- 1,046
- Nottingham
Thats called CADPAT which is similar
Yes but different colours and patterns CADPAT looks like ACUPAT, it's all digital camo but you can tell the difference. If they wore DPM that would be a different matter because half of the world uses it.
If Russia isn't planning to disrupt ukraine and possibly gain some land what really is going on?
- 4,573
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If you think we need more land to live on, you're 17 million km^2 wrong.
Moscow wants not to lose the economic partnership with the companies of the east - it's the center of Ukrainian energetic and heavy industry. Because the new Kiev gov-t is cutting all ties with Russia. That's why RF wants Ukraine to become a federation.
Also, we wouldn't like our people to get hurt up there. Russia must protect its citizens anywhere. Even with a military force, if it's necessary.
SMfan
Premium
- 2,301
- Moscow, Russia
Russia may also wanna split Ukraine, to have connections with the east, but not have to actually own it.
As for "our people getting hurt" - ehh, I unno, Russia doesn't have the best track record of protecting its citizens just for the sake of it.
- 4,573
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But it should.
However, politicians don't really care much about protecting people, so I don't consider it a primary goal. But Putin can gain some more Respect Points from the people if he acts like a "rescuer" and "peacekeeper".
In August 2008, there really was something to protect the Russian citizens from. But the primary goal of sending the troops to SO was a little different, we know that.
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- 5,888
- Vidzeme, Riga
- Driverman447
- None.
I came in my news page and saw this (it is in Latvian):
http://www.apollo.lv/zinas/krievija-nejausi-publice-patiesos-krimas-referenduma-rezultatus/649852
Which says that the true results of the referendum were released for a short time. Basically, only 50%, of the 15% who participated, had voted for Crimea's inclusion in the Russian Federation.
I don't know if these are true, as I said, everything on this world consists of lies. Maybe it's just propaganda...
EDIT: In english:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...cidentally-Releases-REAL-Crimea-Vote-Numbers#
http://www.apollo.lv/zinas/krievija-nejausi-publice-patiesos-krimas-referenduma-rezultatus/649852
Which says that the true results of the referendum were released for a short time. Basically, only 50%, of the 15% who participated, had voted for Crimea's inclusion in the Russian Federation.
I don't know if these are true, as I said, everything on this world consists of lies. Maybe it's just propaganda...
EDIT: In english:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...cidentally-Releases-REAL-Crimea-Vote-Numbers#
- 4,573
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- Rage_Racer_VOLK
- RageRacer48
Blah blah blah.
"I'm a Crimean girl, an officer's daughter, it's not that simple, nobody wants the annexion!" (@SMfan #Крымчанка #ДочьОфицера remember?)
"The people were voting on gunpoint, those who voted for staying in Ukraine were killed!"
"Putin accidentaly93MB of .rar files real results of voting, 0.00015% really for Crimea's inclusion!"
@GTracer98 man, this is bull****. Published thousand times in various sources (Ukrainian, European, etc), just the number is different - 50%, 30%, 15%... They can't even decide what number to tell.
I've been talking to actual Crimeans - almost all of them are happy of the reuniting. "We are back at home!". And the 15% number is just ridiculous.
"I'm a Crimean girl, an officer's daughter, it's not that simple, nobody wants the annexion!" (@SMfan #Крымчанка #ДочьОфицера remember?
)"The people were voting on gunpoint, those who voted for staying in Ukraine were killed!"
"Putin accidentaly
@GTracer98 man, this is bull****. Published thousand times in various sources (Ukrainian, European, etc), just the number is different - 50%, 30%, 15%... They can't even decide what number to tell.
I've been talking to actual Crimeans - almost all of them are happy of the reuniting. "We are back at home!". And the 15% number is just ridiculous.
SMfan
Premium
- 2,301
- Moscow, Russia
Yeah, the problem ain't in the numbers, but in the way Crimea changed its jurisdiction.Blah blah blah.
"I'm a Crimean girl, an officer's daughter, it's not that simple, nobody wants the annexion!" (@SMfan #Крымчанка #ДочьОфицера remember?
"The people were voting on gunpoint, those who voted for staying in Ukraine were killed!"
"Putin accidentaly93MB of .rar filesreal results of voting, 0.00015% really for Crimea's inclusion!"
@GTracer98 man, this is bull****. Published thousand times in various sources (Ukrainian, European, etc), just the number is different - 50%, 30%, 15%... They can't even decide what number to tell.
I've been talking to actual Crimeans - almost all of them are happy of the reuniting. "We are back at home!". And the 15% number is just ridiculous.
- 55
- London
- Combinho
Not saying the figures are accurate without proper verification, but they are worth considering rather than dismissing out of hand. Plus the figures are consistent. A 50% vote in favour with a 30% turnout, would definitely mean that 15% of the population had voted in favour. That's simple maths.
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- RageRacer48
SMfan
Premium
- 2,301
- Moscow, Russia
Yeah... volunteers.
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SMfan
Premium
- 2,301
- Moscow, Russia
I hope not. I REALLY hope not.
ITCC_Andrew
(Banned)
- 18,532
- Kitchener
Forcing Chechnya to fight in Ukraine? My Russian is certainly limited, but I believe that is what I read.
- 5,888
- Vidzeme, Riga
- Driverman447
- None.
Blah blah blah.
"I'm a Crimean girl, an officer's daughter, it's not that simple, nobody wants the annexion!" (@SMfan #Крымчанка #ДочьОфицера remember?
"The people were voting on gunpoint, those who voted for staying in Ukraine were killed!"
"Putin accidentaly93MB of .rar filesreal results of voting, 0.00015% really for Crimea's inclusion!"
@GTracer98 man, this is bull****. Published thousand times in various sources (Ukrainian, European, etc), just the number is different - 50%, 30%, 15%... They can't even decide what number to tell.
I've been talking to actual Crimeans - almost all of them are happy of the reuniting. "We are back at home!". And the 15% number is just ridiculous.
After you say that I'd love to see some Ukrainians here on this thread, just to read their opinion personally. You know, nothing is better than getting the info from the actual people, not the media.
Let's just say that right now I don't believe any of the results. The official ones seem a bit too perfect and the western media ones seem like bullcrap...
- 4,573
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Not "forcing Chechnya" (sounds not correct), but sending his paramilitary units. Or just arm the volunteers who desire to take action there.
@RomanBidnyy , maybe? He's from Western Ukraine.
Roman, come in, please!
EDIT: 300 Chechen volunteers are reported by a militia member.
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- 866
- Frozen Wasteland
- GTP_Cosworth
If its worth anything, my grandmother who lives in Mykolaiv is praying for Russia to intervene in her region. Since the conflict started, the "government" slashed her pension, while simultaneously raising taxes on everything. Since she doesn't speak Ukrainian, she's afraid to leave her house as there has been a lot of clashes between nationalists and separatists in the city (not just major stuff like the protests last month, but people just getting mugged in the street for speaking Russian). Basically she only survives at this point because we send her money from abroad, without that she'd probably be starving to death at this point which is exactly what's happening to less fortunate people.
And the worst thing is that the situation is exactly the same for everyone, regardless of whether they're Russian or Ukrainian. But that's the one thing the Maidan has succeeded at, igniting deep hatred between the Russians and Ukrainians, effectively splitting the population in half. For that reason the Ukrainians put up with the austerity measures and all the other **** the "government" throws at them, as long as it helps fight the Russians and the "evil invaders" from the RF. But once the dust settles what's going to happen? The Ukrainians will realize that their country is broke and completely dysfunctional. What are they going to do then? Revolt against the government yet again? Beg the EU/USA for more money? This is a mess that will take decades to settle and no one will come out on top from this.
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