Russian Invasion of Ukraine
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McLaren
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Reports of protests on Day 4 in Russia (apparently being tracked through arrest records). Not large, but the fact people are still going out knowing the consequences. Fear is the protests may become an issue if the public reacts negatively Monday.
Additional reports of a Russian official apologizing at the UN during a climate meeting & 2 Russian oligarchs asking their own to bring an end to the war.
Additional reports of a Russian official apologizing at the UN during a climate meeting & 2 Russian oligarchs asking their own to bring an end to the war.
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- eran0004
I guess it is this paragraph of the 1997 agreement between NATO and Russia that Putin refers to when he claims that NATO promised to not accept new members:
“respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents”
Although I can’t see anything in there that says what he claims it says, unless he thinks that Ukraine and Georgia are Russian territories. 🤔
“respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents”
Although I can’t see anything in there that says what he claims it says, unless he thinks that Ukraine and Georgia are Russian territories. 🤔
ROAD_DOGG33J
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Ukraine crisis: Russian strikes damage world's largest airplane
Antonov-225 Mriya was damaged during Russian strikes at the Hostomel airport near Kyiv. Ukroboronprom said restoration would cost over $3 billion and demands Russia pay for it.
www.jpost.com
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Wasn't one of the main points from his speech prior to launching the invasion centred on this? That Ukraine doesn't actually have the right to self-determination, it's a de-facto Russian state that's slowly going rogue (or something along those lines, I'd need to go back and double-check).
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Scaff
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The claim that the 1997 agreement limited NATO's expansion is, to be blunt, an utter lie.
It's been debunked numerous times, but I think the most authoritative voice on debunking it comes from Gorbachev himself, and to be blunt given that he signed it from the Russian side, he should know.
However it's important to understand that the 1997 bit is actuall in regard to a statement made by NATO, and the actuall agreement dates back to 1990.
In 1997 NATO said:
"Several years after German reunification, in 1997, NATO said that in the “current and foreseeable security environment” there would be no permanent stationing of substantial combat forces on the territory of new NATO members."
The agreement in 1990 which Putin has also referenced was about East Germany, and it's a bastardisation of the two that Putin has tried, dishonestly, to use.
“The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
The discussion was limited to East Germany, and at no point discussed any other country at all, it's one of Putin's more easily debunked lies.
Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says "No"
Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...
www.brookings.edu
Edited to add, the joint declaration signed in 1997 between NATO and Russia doesn't limit NATO's expansion either. in fact quite the opposite, it talks about Russian and NATO members not considering each other adversaries, and even contains a section stating:
- respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents;
So yeah, Putin's a lying piece of ****, and anyone saying NATO promised to not expand is either ignorant of the actual facts and signed agreements or just buying into Russian propaganda.
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- 1,324
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they can Stinger as they like, resupply incoming
Germany to supply Ukraine with 1,000 anti-tank weapons, 500 Stinger missile
Germany will supply Ukraine with 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 anti-aircraft Stinger missiles in the wake of the ongoing conflict in Kyiv.
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/02/the-netherlands-to-supply-200-stinger-missiles-to-ukraine/
also demonstration of support for Ukraine in Prague on St. Wenceslas Square... didn't see that much people there since 1989.
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- Milouse
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The story is from 2 days ago but i don't remember having seeing it here. I'm still not sure what to think about this. Unplanned war casualties or something bigger?
Thanks, i was wondering it they were in position to get rid of the mad king with their bare hands quickly enough. And save the world for now.
Thanks, i was wondering it they were in position to get rid of the mad king with their bare hands quickly enough. And save the world for now.
Paranoiac and out of touch. He doesn't have a smartphone, doesn't use internet. He mostly sees the world through reports from people that certainly doesn't like to tell him bad news. That's why he totally misjudged consequences of Ukraine invasion.
Dotini
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Without regard to the agreement, John Mearsheimer made the crucial point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer#UkraineThe claim that the 1997 agreement limited NATO's expansion is, to be blunt, an utter lie.
It's been debunked numerous times, but I think the most authoritative voice on debunking it comes from Gorbachev himself, and to be blunt given that he signed it from the Russian side, he should know.
However it's important to understand that the 1997 bit is actuall in regard to a statement made by NATO, and the actuall agreement dates back to 1990.
In 1997 NATO said:
"Several years after German reunification, in 1997, NATO said that in the “current and foreseeable security environment” there would be no permanent stationing of substantial combat forces on the territory of new NATO members."
The agreement in 1990 which Putin has also referenced was about East Germany, and it's a bastardisation of the two that Putin has tried, dishonestly, to use.
“The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
The discussion was limited to East Germany, and at no point discussed any other country at all, it's one of Putin's more easily debunked lies.
Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says "No"
Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...
Edited to add, the joint declaration signed in 1997 between NATO and Russia doesn't limit NATO's expansion either. in fact quite the opposite, it talks about Russian and NATO members not considering each other adversaries, and even contains a section stating:
This is because at that point it was openly being considered that Russia itself may end up as a NATO member.
- respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents;
So yeah, Putin's a lying piece of ****, and anyone saying NATO promised to not expand is either ignorant of the actual facts and signed agreements or just buying into Russian propaganda.
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A stunning video here by British vlogger Bald and Bankrupt. For the last 3 or 4 years, he has been travelling around most of the countries of the former Soviet Union, just vlogging what he finds and searching for both unknown tourist destinations, but mainly the appeal of his channel is that this guy can naturally get some of the most candid responses from just normal people on the street about how they feel about the situation they live in. Trust me, his channel is an amazing watch for anyone who knows nothing about Russia and its neighbours.
In this video, we can see that he went to Ukraine on the 22nd Feb and woke up in Kharkiv on the 23rd. Now that we know the invasion happened on the 24th, it's surreal how quickly a lot of the people were proved wrong, and utterly unbelievable to think what happened in the last scenes of the video less than 12 hours later.
In this video, we can see that he went to Ukraine on the 22nd Feb and woke up in Kharkiv on the 23rd. Now that we know the invasion happened on the 24th, it's surreal how quickly a lot of the people were proved wrong, and utterly unbelievable to think what happened in the last scenes of the video less than 12 hours later.
Scaff
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You can't just pretend the agreements don't exist, reality doesn't function that way. The cold hard fact is that the agreement/promise Putin claims NATO has broken never existed.
You also forgot to mention it was also rebutted, here's the rebuttal for balance.
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Gas12
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How would that work if your money is worth nothing anyway?Thanks God my mortgage is in ₽. If ₽ will fall hard enough there is possibility that I could deal with it in one go
Genuine question.
I mean correct me if I'm wrong but these new sanctions are going to hit hard on normal Russian folk right?
I doubt an upside is being able to pay off your mortgage.
I've heard people saying Russian money might as well be toilet roll by next week.
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Georgian ship: "Are you from russia?" // in english
Russian ship: "Yes from russia, crew members russian" // in english
Georgian ship switches to Russian, thick Georgian accent but understandable...
Georgian ship: "Understood, Russian crew yes? Guys we decline docking request. We refuse to refuel your ship/transport ship"
Russian ship: "Who is speaking to us?"
Georgian ship: "You are speaking to senior captains assistant (not sure of exact rank translation), Georgian. We will not refuel your ship. Russian ship go **** yourselves." Somebody else in the background with a much clearer Russian accent: "Occupiers/invaders blyat (general russian curse word)"
Russian ship: "Let's leave politics aside, we are running low in fuel/running out of fuel"
Georgian ship: "Well if you're running out of fuel you can use your paddles" Another guy: *"Go **** yourselves" Previous guy: "Slava Ukraine, geroyam slava" // ukrainian motto
Edit.
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