Save "Tookie"?

[sicbeing]

I agree that he should have clemency, only because of what Fryz said.

If they should kill him, they should put thousands of tiny cut marks on him, cover his body in hot sauce, and feet him to flesh eating ants.

 

[Duke]

Anyone who is for the death penalty is a nazi. I don't even care about whether this guy did it or not

OK, this tears it. I'm going to test-run an idea proposed by one of the other moderators. I think this is a highly appropriate time to see how it works out.

smellysocks12, I'm assigning you homework. By midnight GMT on Friday, 09 December 2005, I want to see you post or PM to me a 500-word essay, researched and written by you, about the Nazi party and what they stand for. I want you to include your reasoning of how capital punishment with due process relates to Naziism.

That's a week to write a page. You can do it easily. More importantly, if you decide not to, you'll receive a warning.

The entire GTP staff is tired of thinly-veiled aggression masquerading as "opinion". We're tired of people saying outrageous things and then assuming that calling it their "opinion" relieves them of their responsibility for saying it.

So you are now assigned homework, and just like in school, there will be negative consequences if you decide not to complete that assignment.

 

[Pupik]

Anyone who is for the death penalty is a nazi.

Wrapping up this thread a little early, Smelly?

 

[smellysocks12]

I know damn well what the nazis were and stood for. Believe that a large part of my history classes were based on it. I already said that I used the wrong word before you even showed up in this topic. If you want to ban me, go ahead, you have been lurking for months to run into a good opportunity. I recieved 2 out of 3 of my warnings for bull**** reasons to begin with. I rarely play Gran Turismo anymore and by the time the next iteration of the series comes out I will probably have been unbanned because of an IP change or whatever. So there is in no way I am going to write an essay to you, just to stay on this forum. First of all it is the most ridiculous idea I have ran into online, even the iBuzz is a less ridiculous idea. Second of all I'm too busy with other **** to even bother consider writing that essay for fun for the hell of it.

Either way, adios to all the cool people here. It was fun speaking to you guys, you know who you are. Anyone else can go eat a sausage. Later!

 

[F1GTR]

Laters, Smelly...

 

[smellysocks12]

Since I'm not banned yet, this video shows what a nazi is like:

http://www.6pack.tv/Default.asp?log=746&cont=viewLog&s=wmp200

 

[Duke]

Either way, adios to all the cool people here. It was fun speaking to you guys, you know who you are. Anyone else can go eat a sausage. Later!

Are you done with your little tantrum? Good.

Are you ready to think a little more before you post? Good.

You say I've been lurking for months looking for an excuse to ban you - wrong. Actually, I laid off you because it seemed like you had learned a bit from our encounters earlier in the year. I didn't need to dog your every post because you were thinking more.

But the "nazi" comment was over the top, and you needed to be called on it.

 

[jammyozzy]

Ah geez, there's several moral issues here. One of the main arguments against the death penalty, aswell as the whole Nazi thing and is someone really guilty. Whee.

About the death penalty, I don't think it should be used. Solitary confinement is much worse. Think about it. If you've comitted a terrible crime, would you rather die and be free of your memories, or spend the rest of your life alone thinking about what you'd done?

Plus, although there is a monetary refund, if the court gets it wrong you've killed an innocent man. That technically makes the jury and the judge guilty of murder themselves. I think there are just too amny moral implications for the death penalty to be used, especially in a case like this.

 

[sicbeing]

Do the admins actually think that anyone will do homework for them? If someone is ignorant enough to get that much attention, why do you think they'll write you a 500 word essay based on the fact that they're ignorant?

 

[Duke]

Do the admins actually think that anyone will do homework for them? If someone is ignorant enough to get that much attention, why do you think they'll write you a 500 word essay based on the fact that they're ignorant?

The point is to make people realize they need to contribute to the forum.

 

[blargonator]

He's no Sunday School student, no matter how much people think he has changed. He's a murderer, he started on of the mose deadly gangs of all time, he's been found guilty, he's been sentence to death. So what if he wrote some books? It doesn't bring back the lives of the poeple he's killed.

Carry out the sentence, and let the family members of the people whom he killed live in peace. They deserve peace, and he deserves death.

killing him won't bring them back either.
i doubt it will bring them peace either. yes, a family member died but if one of your family members died do you think they would want you to mourn their death instead of celebrating their life?
my father was on the brink of death about 6 years ago after a couple men tried to kill him, sure i hated them more than anything in the world, but it won't solve anything. I forget how lucky I am to still have my father.

 

[Solid Fro]

The punishment for murder in America is and can be death.

No amount of belly-aching will change the punishment. Tookie should have thought about his actions before he shot a man in the back of his head.

Arnold should terminate this thug.

 

[Small_Fryz]

The punishment for murder in America is and can be death.

No amount of belly-aching will change the punishment. Tookie should have thought about his actions before he shot a man in the back of his head.

Arnold should terminate this thug.

Death is the easy way out, a far far far worse punishment is solitary confinement.

Loniless is far worth than death.

Lock him up for the rest of his life, a long miserable life is much much worse than dieing.

I dont think they should ever kill people, if the crimes are that harsh put them in a room on their own, and feed them tins of food through a cat flap for the rest of their lives. The only people they get to see is the 1 person who cleans the cell or feeds them. This punishment is far worse.

Death is the easy way out once your dead you arnt suffereing. We will all die anyway so you muss well let him live out his life in missery just like the family members of the victimes he killed.

Does anybody agree disagree with my view?

Since the topic went off topic after my post i was wanting to know what you guys think.

 

[Shannon]

If a guy kills another man, why shouldn't he die as well?

Because an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

If someone kills a relative of mine and I go kill them, I should be exempt from murder just because he did it first? But its quite alright for the state to execute someone because they did it first?

The families of his victims have had plenty of years to find peace. Face it, if it weren't a member of their family they wouldn't care if he was killed or not. But because it is, they want him dead. The death penalty is nothing more than revenge. Which ironically, society frowns upon. The whole idea of prison is to reflect upon what you did wrong and learn from it. This guy has learnt his lesson and after 25 years locked up, probably doesn't want to be back there. Killing him is useless.

The death penalty is just a way of erradicating bad men and not giving them the chance to redeem themselves.

 

[Sage]

Does anybody agree disagree with my view?

I partially disagree, but only because when somebody is living the rest of their time off in jail, you and I are paying for that. Once someone’s executed, they’re not a liability to society anymore – but as long as that person’s in jail, then those are wasted tax dollars.

 

[gt_masta]

^^ That's right. He will learn from his act but the people will be paying for him for the next 25 years. I'm not saying that he can't change, but that he should have thought before he did it.

 

[Swift]

Does anybody agree disagree with my view?

Since the topic went off topic after my post i was wanting to know what you guys think.

Death is not the easy way out. Except for the taxpayers. I would rather that the murders were put to death then us having to pay 30K+ a year to have them live comfortably. Yes, I said comfortably. Being in jail is better then being homeless from a needs viewpoint. Obviously, being in jail is jacked up, but it's better then starving to death for a lot of people. Some even get cable, what kind of retarded garbage is that?

 

[High-Test]

Does anybody agree disagree with my view?

I do. What he did was heinous and brutal, and he should be forced to live the rest of his existence behind bars.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Death is not the easy way out. Except for the taxpayers. I would rather that the murders were put to death then us having to pay 30K+ a year to have them live comfortably. Yes, I said comfortably. Being in jail is better then being homeless from a needs viewpoint. Obviously, being in jail is jacked up, but it's better then starving to death for a lot of people. Some even get cable, what kind of retarded garbage is that?

They have cable because it provides revenue for the cable company who lobbied congress to have cable put into the jails in the first place.

Anyway, I don't believe in the death penalty. It's racially biased.

Solitary confinement is a better option.

 

[Joey D]

It's racially biased.

Care to explain this one?

 

[Plague.Ghost]

are you telling me that you're willing to let your tax dollars pay to keep him in a comfortable life?

Jail is NOT comfortable, trust me. Plus, many inmates commit suicide because it's just so uncomfortable.

Besides that, what if he's innocent? People are only found "guilty" or "not guilty" which doesn't exactly determine whether or not you actually did it. Not guilty is not the same as innocent.

Aside from your precious tax dollars, why should someone die for a sin? Do two wrongs make a right? I wouldn't be calling him the hypocrite.

 

[Joey D]

why should someone die for a sin?

That mixes church and state right there, it doesn't matter if its a sin or not. I don't believe in sin, so therefore I don't believe in that statement.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Care to explain this one?

From 1995-2000, ~80% of the 700 defendants facing the death penalty were minorities. The Justice Department recommended that the death penalty be pursued with 183 defendants -- 74% were minorities. Out of the 20 or 21 (not sure which) defendants sentenced to death, 80% were members of minorities.

There's a lot of discussion on the topic...

http://www.usdoj.gov/dag/pubdoc/deathpenaltystudy.htm

The death penalty should be abolished. Solitary confinement and "work camps" are sufficient punishment.

That mixes church and state right there, it doesn't matter if its a sin or not. I don't believe in sin, so therefore I don't believe in that statement.

Besides, some people are beginning to question whether or not the death penalty is a sufficient deterrent anyway.

 

[Joey D]

Race does not excuse you from a crime. Terry McVey was put to death and he was whiter then I.

But honestly I look at the prisions and see that more "minorities" are in there apposed to "white" people. Why? I'm not sure to tell you the truth, but it's not because the "white" man is trying to spite them.

And I believe in the death penalty. I think that killing someone would help cope with the lose of a person if I was part of the victims family.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Race does not excuse you from a crime.

Absolutely not.

Terry McVey was put to death and he was whiter then I.

But honestly I look at the prisions and see that more "minorities" are in there apposed to "white" people. Why? I'm not sure to tell you the truth, but it's not because the "white" man is trying to spite them.

Nah... it has more to do with sociology than race. But the bias is clear.

And I believe in the death penalty. I think that killing someone would help cope with the lose of a person if I was part of the victims family.

Not always.

 

[Plague.Ghost]

And I believe in the death penalty. I think that killing someone would help cope with the lose of a person if I was part of the victims family.

But how can you risk that when they're innocent (IF they are innocent, that is)?

In the town I live there's a man (whos name I shall leave blank out of respect for him) who was charged with rape and murder when he was 14, in 1969. He was sentenced to a jail term, and was going to get the death penalty. It took almost 25 years for enough evidence to surface to prove that someone else didn't kill this girl, and people have been lobbying to have him released long before that. I'm not sure of what the exact circumstances were, but he's almost a local celebrity.

If that thing can happen here, it can happen anywhere and I'm sure a lot of innocent men have paid for someone elses mistake with their lives. The death penalty does NOT set an example.

So many studies have proven this, it's ridiculous to think it could. An impulse killer doesn't have the train of thought to stop and realise "If I get caught, I could die for this!".

Basic psychology has always shown that setting a good example of what to do has always been more effective than a punishment showing what not to do.

 

[James2097]

I agree with Smelly in that the death penalty is inherently a flawed and immoral system.
Killing someone is what you emotionally may want to do, but IMO a life rotting in an isolation cell is even worse (with the possibility of new evidence not stopping you from being exonerated from your charges). The death penalty is just archaic IMO.

The death penalty may be fair when someone is absolutely an evil crazy person (like saddam for instance), but if EVEN ONE person is wrongly executed (and we all know this has happened on numerous occasions over the history of having the death penalty in the US), then it makes the people executing no better than any other murderers.

I don't feel I (or anyone on these forums should really) should judge this particular case. Only the court knows all the details (except maybe I'm forgetting that court cases in America are public affairs like soap operas...). Arnold may "terminate" the guy, buggered if I know if he's guilty or genuinely reformed etc. I'm just for the abolishment of the death penalty full stop.

We don't have the death penalty in Australia and we have substantially less murders per person than in the states. Don't see how the death penalty is really helping anyone maintain a better society. It just makes people actually consider murder as a punishment they can dish out if they feel the offending party really deserves it - in or out of the courtroom! The most important thing is that a good example be set. Killing people doesn't really do this, regardless of how guilty they are.

I AM for the death penalty in uber extreme cases, like I'd want to let Hitler get executed if they (the allies) got to him way back when etc... but as part of general law, its wrong.

Plague Ghost just talked sense also.

 

[Plague.Ghost]

A very true statement:

"Killing is killing, whether it's done for duty, profit or fun."

 

[Shannon]

I partially disagree, but only because when somebody is living the rest of their time off in jail, you and I are paying for that. Once someone’s executed, they’re not a liability to society anymore – but as long as that person’s in jail, then those are wasted tax dollars.

If you're so worried about your tax dollars going towards prisoners, why not just abolish prisons altogether and let murderers run free? Wasted tax dollars is a pathetic excuse for killing him.

 

[ledhed]

Its a shame they cant kill him twice .