SCC - Ferrari 355 Challenge Series - Series Complete, results posted!

[vompatti]

I brake hard too, I don't even bother on trying to brake so that my tires wouldn't lock up for the reasons you already mentioned. Then when I release the brake a bit when turning in I use a pattern learned on previous laps together with the squeeze that comes from the brakes when they are pushed lightly.

All that said, I wasn't 100% happy with my Silverstone setup and it's possible with more time to practice I would have tweaked it further.

I think there is no setup that is ever ready. I also noticed after trying setups from you guys, that there was for sure room for improving my own setup. But you always have to settle for what you have found so far at some point. But it was interesting to notice, that basically all the setups were fast, even though they were very different.

Where at other tracks, especially that diabolic piece of hell on earth (known by some as Paul Ricard)

I think that Paul Ricard is well thought artistic masterpiece. After all, it's not possible to do that terrible track by accident

 

[Alan_G]

There is no question, that turning on ABS allows one (or at least me) to vastly alter their driving style because you can brake and turn much more effectively. But since I find driving with such assists to be rather distasteful, and I actually never drove (in this game) with ABS (except to test it's effectiveness here or there), I've grown used to driving without it.

This is a serious issue for pad users always, in all sims. In the past, I was very reluctant to accept no ABS because I felt (still do really) that the pad is not suitable for it; there's no feel, no resistance with the control, so it's too difficult to pinpoint the optimal braking amount before locking up.

For a lot of corners, what I do now is brake 100% in a straight line, then at the turn-in point release to around 90%, and gradually release the brakes right up to the apex, maybe finishing with around 50% brakes before releasing. Obviously this is not on all corners; on Silverstone with 355C, Vale (the left before club?) and Brooklands are the prominent ones.

I'm not sure what it's like for pedal users, but using the pad, the linearity of the brakes seems a bit questionable. A technique I tried to use in handling no ABS was to hit 100% brakes and immediately release a fraction. The problem I found was sometimes it felt like it released to around 95%, and others released to as low as maybe 70% - it was so difficult to keep any consistency. I know some may feel this is just due to the small range of movement, but I'm very much used to the pad, and it really doesn't feel right. Really impossible to do this technique, so I've just abandoned this idea.

 

[jjaisli]

It's time for me to make an announcement in this thread. I've been struggling back and forth with this for many weeks because I've had such a wonderful time putting these events together. It's become something of a hobby for me. But alas, a very time consuming hobby. I had intended to run a new series when the F355 events ended, using the F430 and then perhaps with the FXX. But I've now decided to put an end to the series after the last F355 race at Spa on August 15th. And there will be no more events there after. At least not from me.

My original intention when I started the "Classic" car races last autumn, was to promote this game among the sim racing community here on GTPlanet. But I also made numerous posts on the Autosport forums, Eutechnyx and a few others. There was so little interest in this game and the lack of promotion from System 3 themselves really sealed it's fate. But those of us who have been avid Eutechnyx fans since the Ferrari Challenge days have stuck by this hidden gem and appreciated it's finer points. It may lack the tire wear and full setup options of SSV8 or the pitstops of F1:CE or the beautiful visuals of GT5P. But what it does, it does VERY well. And I believe, despite it's short comings, overall, it's the finest sim racer currently available for the PS3.

At any rate, I'm not on System 3's payroll but promoting this game was also a bit self serving. The more quick, skilled sim racers playing this game, the better it is for the SCC community. I love racing online and competition is a boon. I initially ran these events in open, public lobbies and encouraged people to join in. Unfortunately, two punters (kubica88 & taxibaz) mandated the need for private lobbies. In one sense, it was a change for the better because the group began to really gell. And improve. And find a rhythm. And when I moved from the classic series to the challenge series, I did my best to set a schedule and make these events as close to real world races as the game would allow. The build-up, the testing, the pre-race excitement, the qualifying and the race itself was very gratifying for me personally and I hope it was for the rest of you as well. Without trying to be or sound condescending, we've come to expect very high standards of driving and fair play amongst each other. And I don't mean to suggest that's a bad thing. But I'm afraid my events have been a victim of their own success. Our little group of 15~20 racers (off and on over the months) have become a little too professional and I'm afraid the format has become a little too intimidating for any newbies who may want to join in.

But more to the point, from my original mission, time has become an enemy of sorts. I had hoped that a North American release of this game would spark renewed interest and encourage a whole new community of sim racers here in North America who never heard of SCC or hadn't thought to order it from overseas. But we're almost into August and I think it's just too late. With TDU & F1:2010 just weeks away and GT5, just 3 short month on the horizon, if SCC is finally released in North America, it's going to be completely overlooked. Even a lot of loyal fans who once played FC or SCC regularly have abandoned it and moved on. When was the last time we heard from Krufti or Higgiracer or ChilledAnt or PiotrB or Zedux, among many others. And sadly, it's become self-fulfilling because the community is so small, at any given time there are so few people playing SCC that it's become rather boring online. The days of checking and having a choice of 5-10 online lobbies to choose from are long gone. If you're lucky there's maybe one. More often than not, there are none.

And finally, being a parent and a small business owner has made organizing these events an often trying experience, juggling the time and commitment needed. I can tell you, before planning the 355 series, I had to sit down with my wife and juggle plans and weekends around to make sure it all worked. And I'm beginning to feel if we can't even find 12~16 able racers for these events, part of the fun and satisfaction is slowly fading. At least for me. With any luck, I would like the last event at Spa to go out with a bang. I hope to have a full lobby. And I'd like to see it a hotly contested race for the full 20 laps.

So it's my hope that those of you who have taken part, have enjoyed yourselves, even half as much as I have. I feel privileged to have raced with the lot of you. And I feel I've become a much more skilled and conscientious sim racer from taking part in these events with the rest of you. I won't be disappearing completely. I'll still be around. And still hope to take part in races that others host. And I hope one day, in the not too distant future, to invite many of you for a 90+ minute race at Le Mans in GT5 with classic Ferraris, as dusk turns to night.

Thank you all!

 

[arvore]

Jeff I would like to thank You for Your commitment and enthusiasm in putting up these events together.👍
You have been the most gentle and fair organizer during these months and the glue that kept together this group of players from so many different origins and cultures.
And albeit I would like very much to do the 430 Challenge Series(one of my favourite cars,that I didn't use a lot in this game due to the fact that in FC it was one of the most used cars...),I fully understand Your lack of time to keep this going.If practicing and tuning for these events is very time consuming,I can only begin to imagine the number of hours You spent in organizing,recording,uploading and yet still practice and tweak the setups to be one of the most competitive drivers in the pack...
I am sure this is not a goodbye since at some point we all be joining for some unscheduled fun at SCC and who knows at GT5.

THANK YOU.👍

Miguel

 

[bullie77]

^ I'd like to borrow Miguel's words and make them also mine because he truly expressed the gratitude we have towards you for the great times we had racing in these events, both the Classic Series and the Challenge Series.

Thank you Jeff!

 

[Alan_G]

When I say that this is not sad news, I mean it in a very positive way; with it being such a big responsibility and burden, you will now have free time to casually enjoy racing as the rest of us do, and although the numbers may have been disappointing sometimes, it doesn't detract in the slightest of the success of the events.

So I say congratulations on putting together all of the great events over the last 10 months or so. The best online racing I've ever had has been in these events, in particular in the Old Timer events.

I've no doubt that we'll have plenty of racing in future in other sims, simply because we all look for the same kind of things from racing, in terms of the all-round experience; testing, practice, sharing setups, qualifying, racing, points systems etc. Maybe even GT5 will surprise us with a tag-team online system, so we can do some classic Le Mans endurances!

I class SCC as an adequate game. Of what's on the PS3 market, it's the best sim for what I'm looking for. I'm seeing F1 2010 coming along in a few weeks, and GT5 after that, and have to be honest that my attention will probably be dedicated only to those two games. Getting a wheel is not on the horizon just yet, and if the pad handling was a bit more challenging with SCC, I may still have had a place in future.

But nonetheless, lets make it a great final two races of JJ's events, and have plenty more good races over the next couple of months.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Thank you Jeff, your hard work made many enjoyable moments possible for many, many players. I have been, for a number of reasons, increasingly absent from online play, organized or not, and I have even considered, several times, to announce my own personal "retirement" from online activity, considering that without any daily (sometimes not even weekly) practise I feel totally unable to keep up with the gang.

Maybe now the time has come for some careless offline play. I have so many games to try and so litle time to try them (F1:CE and IL2 being the most notorious gathering-dust ones). Not to mention that I plan to buy TDU2 and GT5 on release day, and F1 2010 as soon as I read Shaggy's review on it).

And, of course, if I find a Dirt2 copy being sold dirt (no pun intended) cheap, I'd also like to try that one.

All of this, in about 2 hours of weekly playing time ... is not easy.


In my case, I'm sorry to say that I won't - bar any unpredictable need to change the current family plans - be able to attend the remaining two rounds of the 355 Challenge. From this week onwards and until the beggining of September I will be away from Lisbon every weekend, with the family. It is a pity because I love both Vallelunga and Spa, but there's nothing I can - reasonably - do about it. Anyway, I really wish both events are successful, especially SPA, to fulfill Jeff's wish of closing with a full lobby.

Again, thanks Jeff, and sorry for not being as present in your events as I would like to be.

 

[vompatti]

Jeff, thank you, once again. You know how much I appreciate your hard work and if you for some reason happen to forget, just read it again. I'm still backing up 100% on what I said couple a months ago.

I do have to say, that I regret that I waited so long before I bought SCC and missed most of the events

 

[Alan_G]

When I got back to SCC after a few months off it, there was a noticeable increase in the GTP SCC user base. There were a lot of new names I'd never seen before. Unfortunately this seems to have dropped off a lot over the last few weeks, although I do think the previous 355 event was just an unfortunate occasion with people being busy.

 

[Redgate]

Just wanted to say thanks to jeff for organising these very enjoyable events. I was late to the party but can appreciate the effort it takes to put something like this together.
I'll miss valelunga but hope to be there for spa.
Thanks again for making it a pleasant experience and welcoming newcomers like myself.
👍👍👍

 

[jjaisli]

Goodness. A very big THANK YOU to you all, for the kind words of gratitude, your support, and also for your understanding in this decision. I was going back and forth because I really wanted to try and squeeze in one more series. But when I thought about my own plans, both personal and professional over the next two months, I realized it would be impossible.

Still, Vompatti has me thinking. I'm not making any promises. But if I can manage it, I will try and squeeze in ONE more classic race, as a one off event, probably with the 250 TR, sometimes in early September. I think, it would be a fitting tribute, considering that's how it all started.

 

[Jerry786]

Hi Jerry--I did actually answer you (previous page, post #254). But in short, "yes". Read the very first post (page 1 of this thread) to familiarize yourself with the rules and procedures and I'll see you on the 1st. I don't have an actual sign up sheet but I do give priority to those who have already taken part in past races. However considering the almost dismal turn out for the last race, I doubt a full lobby will be an issue.

Hi, sorry about that, didnt see your first post.

Looking forward to racing you guys, no doubt im going to get hammered but still...im all for it

 

[Alan_G]

...no doubt im going to get hammered but still...im all for it

Nah, don't worry at all about that. It's not the case that everyone is battling with winning pace and newcomers are left at the back. There's always a nice spread of pace across players in these events, so you'll slot in nicely for whatever kind of pace you have. And the main thing is to enjoy the experience!

* * *

For experimental reasons, I recorded a lap of Vallelunga, mostly to see if the recording quality would be good enough to do more in future. I put in on YouTube. The original quality was very good, but YouTube's "processing" took a bit of life out of it. Still, I think it looks aliright. This was a replay from an offline race, so now I just need to figure out how to place the camera in a stable position to record live races!...



Lap was not too bad, but too much speed into 'Campagnano', and I later figured out it's best to get in early to 'Semaforo' (see the map on page 13!), rather than taking a wide entry; should get in early and brake right up to the apex.

 

[Biggles]

I certainly understand where you're coming from Jeff. The fact that the majority of SCC racers are not from NA, inherently creates a "time zone" issue. Although I've tried to show up on a regular basis, convincing the Significant Other that it's a reasonable thing to be putting aside 2 to 3 hours in the middle of the afternoon on a weekend is not always easy. HAVING to do it, week after week, because you're organizing it, is a whole different level of commitment.

Thanks for making & sticking with that level of commitment, Jeff. I hope to be able to make at least one of the remaining 355 Challenge races.

There's a whole Brave New World of PS3 Sim-racing on the horizon, one that will make our small, quaint, tight-knit FC/SCC community a relic of the past.
Let's hope, at least, that these new games actually deliver a quality sim experience ...

 

[jjaisli]

For experimental reasons, I recorded a lap of Vallelunga, mostly to see if the recording quality would be good enough to do more in future. I put in on YouTube. The original quality was very good, but YouTube's "processing" took a bit of life out of it. Still, I think it looks aliright. This was a replay from an offline race, so now I just need to figure out how to place the camera in a stable position to record live races!...

I'm sorry I was only able to do the one 5 lap race with you guys last night and I was learning my braking and turn in points as I drove. It's very interesting watching your video Alan. There are certain places where you go wide and you're right on the edge and I wonder how you're able to modulate the throttle. Even with pedals it's difficult for me and If I was in the same place on the track, I think I'd get completely out of line under power. Either way, you're very confident and accurate with your turn in points. From the lap I was able to do last night (1:44.59?) I'm pretty sure there's at least another second to gain from smoothing things out but I'm not sure if I can artfully duplicate what you've managed there.

BTW, if the original raw data submitted is high enough quality and resolution, it will be processed in high def (720p or 1080p).

*EDIT* BTW, I'm guessing just from LOOKING at how your car reacts, that you have at least a few ticks of + front toe...?

There's a whole Brave New World of PS3 Sim-racing on the horizon, one that will make our small, quaint, tight-knit FC/SCC community a relic of the past.
Let's hope, at least, that these new games actually deliver a quality sim experience ...

Well, let's hope so. I thought the same thing this time last year with SCC, NFS:Shift, SSV8:NC and GT5 on the horizon.

SCC turned out to be Ferrari Challenge II. Actually, that's giving it too much credit. Make it, Ferrari Challenge Plus (As it was essentially FC with less bugs some good new features and a few extra cars)

NFS:Shift, I won't even go into it.

SSV8:NC: Let's just say, after SSV8 & SSV8:NC, I will likely NEVER buy a game from Blackbean again. I'm not even interesting in looking at their Rally game.

GT5: We're still waiting. And in typical PD fashion, we know some things but others remain a mystery. And it really remains to be seen if it's really "all that". I know what I want and what my personal expectations are. And I'm excited. But also nervous.

I actually have GT5, TDU & F1:2010 all on order. I'm really not expecting much from TDU or F1:2010. But I was able to get both cheap through promotional offers. I only have so much time for leisure activity. But if GT5 doesn't meet my expectations, over the Christmas holiday, I will likely put together or buy a game PC and switch over to PC sims. Somehow I feel like I'm ready for 'more'. And oogling over the glossy reflections coming from the dashboard of 300 Skyline models and playing with 'photo mode' just doesn't cut it for me.

 

[arvore]

For experimental reasons, I recorded a lap of Vallelunga, mostly to see if the recording quality would be good enough to do more in future. I put in on YouTube. The original quality was very good, but YouTube's "processing" took a bit of life out of it. Still, I think it looks aliright. This was a replay from an offline race, so now I just need to figure out how to place the camera in a stable position to record live races!...



Lap was not too bad, but too much speed into 'Campagnano', and I later figured out it's best to get in early to 'Semaforo' (see the map on page 13!), rather than taking a wide entry; should get in early and brake right up to the apex.

Great video Alan,with a good quality.👍
The only thing is that in the replay we can't spot in which gear You approach the corners...now that would be an useful tutorial.

 

[pino-r]

jjaisli your passion to organize the competitions deserves an applause 👍👍👍

I hope to participate in the future events
Alan_G congratulations for the video excellent performance 👍👍 very fast

 

[Alan_G]

The only thing is that in the replay we can't spot in which gear You approach the corners...

Cimini 1 & 2 - 3rd gear
Campagnano - 3rd
Soratte - 2nd
Semaforo - 3rd in, down to 2nd at the apex
Tornantino - 2nd
Esse - 3rd
Roma - 3rd

Maybe you're looking for the exact places for shifting, although the above might help. I'm always very slow to go for 1st gear anywhere, because most of these cars have a high upshift-penalty, and 1st gear is typically very short. For the slow Tornantino hairpin, 1st gear could be an option; I'll try it out later. But I always prefer the better traction and smoothness using 2nd.

*EDIT* BTW, I'm guessing just from LOOKING at how your car reacts, that you have at least a few ticks of + front toe...?

Using +5/+5 toe. I'm a bit of a novice with toe settings. I think more positive in the front makes it turn in sharper, and more plus in the rear helps reduce the oversteer. In some way it seems that they would both cancel each other out, but it seems better than 0/0 toe.

There are certain places where you go wide and you're right on the edge and I wonder how you're able to modulate the throttle. Even with pedals it's difficult for me and If I was in the same place on the track, I think I'd get completely out of line under power.

So you mean when exiting corners? Maybe the positive rear toe helps this. Although my general approach is to get on around 50% throttle very early (typically mid-way through corner), and increase from there. So it may sound like full throttle, but could be just 80% or so.

Oh but I've got to say Jeff, given that those laps yesterday were among your first ones, that was some surprisingly good pace!

 

[arvore]

Cimini 1 & 2 - 3rd gear
Campagnano - 3rd
Soratte - 2nd
Semaforo - 3rd in, down to 2nd at the apex
Tornantino - 2nd
Esse - 3rd
Roma - 3rd

Maybe you're looking for the exact places for shifting, although the above might help. I'm always very slow to go for 1st gear anywhere, because most of these cars have a high upshift-penalty, and 1st gear is typically very short. For the slow Tornantino hairpin, 1st gear could be an option; I'll try it out later. But I always prefer the better traction and smoothness using 2nd.

Thanks for the tips.👍
I use the same gear combination but with much less effectiveness,obviously.

 

[jjaisli]

So you mean when exiting corners? Maybe the positive rear toe helps this. Although my general approach is to get on around 50% throttle very early (typically mid-way through corner), and increase from there. So it may sound like full throttle, but could be just 80% or so.

Oh but I've got to say Jeff, given that those laps yesterday were among your first ones, that was some surprisingly good pace!

Precisely, yes--exiting corners. Maybe the + rear toe does help. I'll have to experiment with it on the weekend because I can see how I could easily gain ~.5 over a lap, all things being equal.

And in fairness, I DO obviously know the track and the proper lines to take around Vallelunga. And coming off the last 3 events, I'm very familiar with the F355 Challenge. So my PB from last night, is probably not really THAT far off from what I can ultimately do. I just had the advantage of starting first.

 

[Alan_G]

Here's a better lap!

 

[vompatti]

Here's a better lap!

Hmm, what's the trick with the braking distances? You are able to brake 3-4 meters later than I can in all the major braking points. Does it have something to do with the setup?

Edit: I mean because I drove today with +5/+5 toe too. I tried it after I noticed that my Silverstone setup didn't work at all. Otherwise it was the same as I had in Silverstone. But I can't brake as late as you can.

 

[Alan_G]

Hmm, what's the trick with the braking distances? You are able to brake 3-4 meters later than I can in all the major braking points. Does it have something to do with the setup?

The funny thing is, when I watch the replay, it looks like I'm braking later than what it seems when actually driving the lap (around about 3 or 4 metres!). Maybe it's just a perception thing.

 

[hm66]

Hi all
Back from holiday and had just read trough all of this.
Sorry to hear that this serie will end after the 355 event.It has
been some good races with people who loves clean races,but I
can understand that it's very time consuming.Thanks to Jeff for his
hard work and I hope that we still gets to race from time to time.
And I will almost for sure make the last two rounds.(have to defent my position)

 

[vompatti]

The funny thing is, when I watch the replay, it looks like I'm braking later than what it seems when actually driving the lap (around about 3 or 4 metres!). Maybe it's just a perception thing.

Haha. Yeah, I guess it could be then just a perception.

Henrik, nice to have you back!

 

[arvore]

Hmm, what's the trick with the braking distances? You are able to brake 3-4 meters later than I can in all the major braking points. Does it have something to do with the setup?

Edit: I mean because I drove today with +5/+5 toe too. I tried it after I noticed that my Silverstone setup didn't work at all. Otherwise it was the same as I had in Silverstone. But I can't brake as late as you can.

The funny thing is, when I watch the replay, it looks like I'm braking later than what it seems when actually driving the lap (around about 3 or 4 metres!). Maybe it's just a perception thing.

Haha. Yeah, I guess it could be then just a perception.

Henrik, nice to have you back!

Aliens talk...
I have to break at least 20 metres before You guys if I want to keep it on the track...


Hi Henrick good to have You back.👍
How was Ibiza this here man?

 

[hm66]

Hi Henrick good to have You back.👍
How was Ibiza this here man?

Hi arvore
It was Gran Canaria,but it was very nice and warm.

 

[Rhino_WJB]

Just got home from working away this week and had a read through this thread.

Firstly, I appreciate the contributions to the set-up discussion. As it stands, my knowledge in this area is limited, and reading through the comments has given me new ideas on where to start, and what to look for.

Secondly, of course a thank you to Jeff for a great job on organising the recent SCC events. I look forward to sharing track time with you again in the future, be it in SCC or indeed GT5!

 

[Alan_G]

Some great 355C online races this evening. If only SCC was like this everyday, online would be pumping!

 

[arvore]

Some great 355C online races this evening. If only SCC was like this everyday, online would be pumping!

Yeah really good races tonight.👍
Much enjoyable the clock just jumped from 12.00 to 3.00 am in a blink...
Always with a full lobby.