SCC - Ferrari 355 Challenge Series - Series Complete, results posted!

  • Thread starter jjaisli
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The Alonso quote is interesting. But I had a look at the full page, and really, it summarises what is wrong with Wikipedia; it's just some guy in a room somewhere blurting out his own opinion, with no references, no citations.

"Still, a loss of control in this section often leads to very heavy shunt as usually the rear-end of the car is lost and the impact is most of the times lateral." - Most of the time lateral impact? Says who? Apart from the fact that this is nonsense, there are no citations to back up this point. I'm just amazed how idiotic people are to miss the fact that it's supposed to be an encyclopedia, and not some damn magazine review.

Anyway, I'm still not sure how right they got Eau Rouge/Raidillon. The completely messed it up in FC. The curbs are not right in SCC, and I'm not 100% sure about the track shape in SCC. But still, it is its own challenge in SCC.

I know You're right about wikipedia Alan.
That's why I made a sarcastic reference to it...

ME:
EDIT: About Eau Rouge let's listen to an educated opinion quoted from that impressive Knowledge Source which is wikipedia:
But in this specific case I think the quote of Alonso was legit,at least there are other references to that statement here:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2004/8/2097.html


Fernando Alonso, Renault:
(Q: You have scored three podiums in the last four races - things seem to be going well for you.) “Yes, I was happy with the result in Hungary, and indeed all the results since Magny-Cours. I have not had any mechanical failures in the races, I have not made mistakes and things are going as we expected now. We are around the podium at every race, and sometimes we make it, sometimes not, but we are pushing in all areas. Looking to Spa, I don't think we go there as confident as we were before Hungary, but we have seen this year that our feelings about a weekend can change as it progresses. It will be a tough challenge to get on the podium in Spa, but it doesn't hold any fear for us. The team is working well and the car is quick, so we just need to perform to our maximum all weekend.”

(Q: When setting the car up for Spa, what do you concentrate on?) “The circuit is different to any other, it has a different character, and as drivers we need to step up to its challenge. It is very difficult to have a car that is perfect in all areas around Spa, because the lap is so long, so you need to be pragmatic and try and feel confident with the car. We focus on the high speed balance, and getting the car stable in the quick corners, while making sure it is not too bad in the slower sections. After that, you need to do laps and gain confidence to push more and more from a driver point of view.”

(Q: Some people say that now it is taken without lifting, Eau Rouge has lost its challenge. Do you agree?) “Well, I hope they don't think it is easy. You come into the corner downhill, have a sudden change at the bottom and then go very steep uphill. From the cockpit, you cannot see the exit and as you come over the crest, you don't know where you will land. It is a crucial corner for the timed lap, and also in the race, because you have a long uphill straight afterwards where you can lose a lot of time if you make a mistake. But it is also an important corner for the driver's feeling. It makes a special impression every lap, because you also have a compression in your body as you go through the bottom of the corner. It is very strange, but good fun as well.”

But You're probably right because the SCC representation of the track is probably not very accurate and it is a whole different challenge...;)
 
I'm just hitting the rev limiter in 5th approaching the braking zone for the bus stop. (Assuming I get blanchaimont right) but I don't think there's really a benefit to upshifting at that point. And drafting somebody at this part of the track is pretty risky.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure about using 6th gear. 5th gear limits on 240kph (I think). On the Kemmel straight, as it's uphill, if you shift to 6th, you fall back a couple of kph, and then only reach 242 before braking. It's similar for approaching the final chicane.

I know You're right about wikipedia Alan.
That's why I made a sarcastic reference to it...

Yeah of course. I wasn't being critical of your use of the quote at all!
 
I estimate the feature race to go about 51 minutes, give or take. At that point, I just figured 15 laps of wet would be too much. Even at 9 laps, I expect the wet race to go about 23+ minutes, which is a respectable distance.

Okay. I actually thought later yesterday, that it's probably because the track is so long.

Yes, that's a bit rich coming from you. I know for a fact you come from the planet Suomi! ;)

Well, I don't think so. After all, Henrik is the undefeated wheel user :) But hey, I'm very impressed that you know how to write down Suomi in Finnish! :bowdown:

The other way (non-absolute as I say) is used to make it easier...

I think the same kind of effect you described is also in braking (maybe in throttle too?). I remember testing at beta both wheel and pad in nurburgring with the DBR9. Car had default setup and the driving settings where the same, but coming into the first corner was a nightmare with wheel. It was, well, impossible to brake with 100%. I always lost it totally. I had to brake earlier so that I had time to counter steer/lift off from brake if necessary. And also if I brake with 90% or less, I had to brake earlier. But with pad I was able to keep it on 100% for all the time, if the tail got loose, just little counter steer and it was back in control. The difference was dramatical. Pad with ABS off was similar to wheel with ABS on, when I later tried with some ABS on.

Also the thing that Biggles said, FFB fighting back is a big factor too. When you are coming out of the corner on the grip limits and you need to keep all steering inputs as minimum as possible and then you hit kerb -> FFB turns your wheel and you need to do some correction maneuvers. Sometimes those FFB effects are enough to make you loose control of the car. Even though driving over kerb has an effect for cars stabilization with both pad and wheel, it's still only wheel that the FFB makes more "trouble".

But I'm not complaining, FFB and the feeling of driving is so superb in SCC, that I don't care if there is some advantage with the pad. IMO it's actually fair that pad users have something, as they are missing out so much :sly:



For better times I agree on Alan that naturally using the track and the car as well as possible is the key thing and it's about ~95% of the whole thing. Then there's setup and that is in most tracks the rest ~5%. (With setup being ~5% I mean that "racedefault" is already implemented, min max ride height, cambers, and so on. Then the fine tuning does that ~5%).

And then on some tracks there are some little tricks. In this track there are some small advantages I think. I don't know if others have tried this, but try and have a go against the limiter on 5th gear when going into bus stop instead of shifting up to 6th gear. Basically it goes 240km/h on limiter. But if you shift to 6th, you have to do it on 239 or 240, but the speed drops down to 237-238 during shifting. Then it wont rise back even to 240 before you need to brake. Or it just might, but still, you have been driving 238-239 on 6th when you could've driven 240 on 5th that the time ;)

Edit: haha, Alan wrote on same shifting thing while I was writing :lol:
 
But I'm not complaining, FFB and the feeling of driving is so superb in SCC, that I don't care if there is some advantage with the pad. IMO it's actually fair that pad users have something, as they are missing out so much :sly:

That's what I've been saying for the last,7 or 8 ,months...:sly:

But I guess this new device may end definitely the wheel pad dispute.:sly:

attachment.php
:lol::P;)

For better times I agree on Alan that naturally using the track and the car as well as possible is the key thing and it's about ~95% of the whole thing.

I also agree with this statement,the toe fine tuning to each track is like 5% worthy,take Heinrick's example :
Just to see what toe settings to use.+25 front and back is quickest (2:29:66) but somewhat unstable.-25 front and back is more stable but a little slower(2:29:97)
I think it's all about finding the tune that suits each driver best.
 
I think the same kind of effect you described is also in braking (maybe in throttle too?). I remember testing at beta both wheel and pad in nurburgring with the DBR9...But with pad I was able to keep it on 100% for all the time, if the tail got loose, just little counter steer and it was back in control.

I'm just talking about specifically the relation between % input and % output (so in GT, if you input 50% steering, it tries to accept 50% steering lock. With the "non-absolute" as I call it (such as in FC/SCC/Toca series), inputting 50% steering at 50kph, and at 100kph, the amount of lock accepted will be different for those two speeds (not necessarily half the lock for 100kph).

I believe the brakes and throttle in SCC are absolute with the pad - if you input 50%, you get 50%, for example. If I hit 100% brakes, the wheels do lock. I know what you're saying, but that would mean the pad braking power would be reduced, because pad and wheel are both using the same engine. It's that auto counter steer thing which has an influence in braking stability.

EDIT:

Some mention of FFB with wheels hitting curbs etc. Well, absolutely; it's another thing which makes it more difficult for wheel users. I've always said: the best wheel lap can get very close to the best pad lap, but doing it require a bit more control and attention.

There's something called "planning", which System3 & Eutechnyx may/may not have heard of, and if they did any, they would have known not to make successive efforts to further separate pad and wheel users. I think the non-absolute pad steering is debatable. But the auto counter steer is beyond a joke. The Eutechnyx admin told me "We did it because we felt it was too difficult for pad users". This leads me to believe there was a deficiency with how the pad works with the engine, or else it was just plain stupid.
 
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That's what I've been saying for the last,7 or 8 ,months...:sly:

But I guess this new device may end definitely the wheel pad dispute.:sly:

attachment.php
:lol::P;)

Try this one instead. ;)

usb-mini-controller-1.jpg


Do you think it has FFB? :lol:
 
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Not strange, some sites don't allow direct link to their images. You could see it because you had it stored in your computer's cache.

To see the picture you posted (previously) all that was needed was:
1 - Quote your post to see it's url
2 - copy it
3 - paste it in the url field of the browser
4 - press enter

Yes I know, I'm nerdy at times :P
 
I'm really sorry guys, i'm gonna have to pull out again. I am going on holiday with the family on Saturday for a week, but thanks for all the advice :)
 
Ah damn. I did a few laps logged-in with the wrong username. Sorry for ruining the leaderboard.

EDIT:

Here we go; +25/-25 Toe.
 
No I didn't. A mid 29 is seriously fast anyway. I'll have to do some practice later (and no more GT5P).

//

Mmmm. I struggle to see the difference with those extreme toe settings, maybe partly because I need to get back in the swing, but also I think changing the rear seems to make a bigger difference when the front is not so extreme, on the pad anyway. I'll just go back to my Vallelunga setup; tried and tested.
 
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Did a test this morning.
Tryed the opposite of alan's toe settings.-25 front/+25 back.
The only serius quick lap was the opening(red)and after that couldn't get any
closer than 0.8 sec.So my pb is now 2:29:07

fix'ed
 
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You mean the 2:29.07 was red?

But if it was the opening lap, and red, then it can't be a PB! The opening lap always has around a 0.5 second advantage because of some ridiculous design flaw.

//

It was an interesting practice session with Arvore, Kemp and JJ today. Over the previous two days, I did a few laps. I was still adjusting back to SCC after the steering feel messed up a bit with playing GT5P. But I was still surprised about not being able to get into the 29s in TT. I was also surprised how strange the different toe settings felt in TT; I was making changes, and not really feeling the difference, or not the way I expected it to be.

Then we did some online races, and it felt much better; got into 29.4, and also the toe changes I made, between two online races, really produced the change that I felt it should.

This is interesting because JJ was sure that something felt wrong with his online laps with us. He went into a TT, and immediately bettered the laps he had been doing, and apparently it felt better there too.

So given the fact that I had already been feeling something strange between TT and online laps, the fact that he said the same thing does raise the issue a bit.
 
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