Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

[R0ssingt0n]

-> look what gazoo did...



carscoop

^ all i can say is awwwwww!!!!

oh my god i want it.

 

[CodeRedR51]

BRZ STI could have 230 HP but with not have a turbo.
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Why is it that manufacturers find it so hard to add things to their cars that the aftermarket has no problem doing? There's several turbo/supercharging kits out there and they seem to work just fine. 💡

 

[sumbrownkid]

The car is already pricey as it is, and they probably wanted to keep costs down. Especially since we are still at the very beginning of the first gen of these cars.

But it will be odd to drive an STi with no turbo.

 

[RocZX]

Why is it that manufacturers find it so hard to add things to their cars that the aftermarket has no problem doing? There's several turbo/supercharging kits out there and they seem to work just fine. 💡

I think that Subaru wants to make it have a top mounted intercooler as they do with all of theirs cars. For the JDM Legacy that has a turbo version of the same engine has a top mounted intercooler......

The car is already pricey as it is, and they probably wanted to keep costs down. Especially since we are still at the very beginning of the first gen of these cars.

I don't think that the price would be an issue, if they add more power and make it perform better people would not mind paying more for it.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Yeah, but a top mounted intercooler would throw a wrench into low engine positioning and that low hood line.

 

[dsgerbc]

Why is it that manufacturers find it so hard to add things to their cars that the aftermarket has no problem doing? There's several turbo/supercharging kits out there and they seem to work just fine. 💡

Maybe because what's 'just fine' for aftermarket does not cut it in the OEM world, where you can't label things "off road use only" to escape liability? And that's not even touching the constraints manufacturers face.

Personally, I'm happy with the "no turbo" stuff, doesn't suit the car. I'll probably skip the STI version, since the current BRZ is just right in terms picking middle ground for suspension stiffness for a mixed-use car. I'd go for one with KERS though.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Maybe because what's 'just fine' for aftermarket does not cut it in the OEM world, where you can't label things "off road use only" to escape liability? And that's not even touching the constraints manufacturers face.

Really, arguments that "aftermarket sucks compared to OEM" really don't cut it anymore. Depending on the company and the tuning involved, you could probably make the car just as reliable. Most top aftermarket parts companies have warranties, and you can get emissions legal forced induction.

It's just excuses from a Manufacture, really nothing new these days. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have the car N/A as well. But an "it won't fit" excuse doesn't fly here when too many companies to count have boosted these things already with no issues.

 

[niky]

While I know a number of people who have turbocharged their cars t within an inch of their lives with no problem, there's no denying that a naturally aspirated car with an aftermarket turbo is not quite as reliable as a factory forced-induction car.

Not unless it's built up with expensive, forged, forced-induction-specific internal components.

A manufacturer has to be sure that if they turbocharge a car, it won't overheat while sitting in traffic, blow a piston-ring while overtaking on the freeway in 110 degree weather or eat its own turbo bearings due to being shut down right away after a scorching hot drive.

Toyobaru could very well easily turbocharge the BRZ/86, but what they are looking at is whether they can do it cost-effectively without having to re-engineer major portions of the car, and whether such a thing will pass strict emissions and economy requirements while still having the cojones to justify the price premium they'd need to charge.

 

[dsgerbc]

Really, arguments that "aftermarket sucks compared to OEM" really don't cut it anymore. Depending on the company and the tuning involved, you could probably make the car just as reliable. Most top aftermarket parts companies have warranties, and you can get emissions legal forced induction.

Warranty on what? That their pipes don't rust through? Maybe. That stock diff/clutch etc is gonna survive? I doubt that. There was this Stassis thing for Audi, but I doubt that it will survive much longer. It was basically based on dealers looking the other way while Audi was picking up the tab for warranty work caused by mods. That's over now. In the really high-end tuning scene - maybe it's present, but that not the money typical 'turbo kit' costs. That's like whole additional car. Other than that, I don't know any aftermarket that would cover OEM parts (other than OEM in-house stuff like TRD etc).

I'm unaware of tuners who tune for all kinds of weather conditions. Every single mainstream tune for the 2.5L turbo engine that I've tried was knocking sooner or later in conditions that stock tune was not. Again, this can be done right, with all the proper upgrades etc, but the market for those is really thin, and it doesn't make sense for OEMs to step into that niche.

And like I said - there are plenty of other reasons for OEMs not to do this. Corporate-level emission standards for example.

 

[niky]

And this is not counting "OEM" parts that also aren't tuned for all conditions.

(Mazdaspeed CAI... *hack*, *cough*...rebranded aftermarket part...)

 

[Endless-Wilso]

Possabily the 1st one ive seen in yellow .



Quite the set of rubber too + idk if i like the exposed rivites

 

[Omnis]

If you're gonna run white letters, you need a taller aspect ratio than that. At least thicker than nascar tires.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Warranty on what? That their pipes don't rust through? Maybe.

Usually on their own parts. And come on now, we all know that manufacturers have to prove an aftermarket part caused an OEM one to fail before they can deny a warranty claim.

That stock diff/clutch etc is gonna survive? I doubt that.

Well someone that's dumb enough to add forced induction to their car without upgrading the clutch shouldn't be modding their car in the first place.

I'm unaware of tuners who tune for all kinds of weather conditions. Every single mainstream tune for the 2.5L turbo engine that I've tried was knocking sooner or later in conditions that stock tune was not. Again, this can be done right, with all the proper upgrades etc, but the market for those is really thin, and it doesn't make sense for OEMs to step into that niche.

When I worked for FM I never once had a customer ask about a winter tune for their turbo cars. My personal Miata never needed anything different in the winter either. The thing was a champ in the snow on Hankook RS2's. No engine issues what so ever. Wasting Mustangs and GTO's any day of the week.

And like I said - there are plenty of other reasons for OEMs not to do this. Corporate-level emission standards for example.

CARB legal isn't good enough?

Quite the set of rubber too + idk if i like the exposed rivites

Because racecar.

 

[dsgerbc]

we all know that manufacturers have to prove an aftermarket part caused an OEM one to fail before they can deny a warranty claim.

Nope. Magnuson-Moss act mandates proof if replacement part was per OEM spec. If it's aftermarket and clearly out-of-OEM spec - they don't have to prove a thing. If it's an aftermarket turbo, powertrain warranty can be void in an instant if the dealer informs the manufacturer. There are dealerships, however, that make some profits off selling aftermarket parts and they will try to look the other way if they can. Which is why manufacturers are transitioning to mandated ECU checks during any service, which automatically flags cars with modified software. Again, look at audi/vw.
I expect to see a lot more of this in the coming years, as more and more manufacturers try to milk different market segments with minimal modifications of hardware, mostly providing a different software.

Of course, almost everyone in the aftermarket industry will try to disagree with that.

Well someone that's dumb enough to add forced induction to their car without upgrading the clutch shouldn't be modding their car in the first place.

And what proportion of your customers are dumb? I know quite a few folk who want a turbo now-now-now and either don't think about other parts at all or hope that parts fail later, when they've sold the car after playing with it for a year tops.

All I'm saying: if aftermarket had to cover damage to OEM parts, they'd either include all those in their kits, or add projected replacement costs to the price, which would have to rise quite a bit, making a whole point "why can't manufacturers do it, lots of aftermarket kits out there" pretty moot, if the kit with full warranty cost $10-$15k.

Even if you believe that MM act protects aftermarket, it only means that a significant part of the true cost of an aftermarket turbo kit is dumped on the manufacturer, which, again, makes your point pretty moot.

When I worked for FM I never once had a customer ask about a winter tune for their turbo cars.

Like I said - lots of stupid customers out there. And if you guys were on the hook for engine damage later on - you'd devise a winter/summer/high-elevation/etc tune on your own, instead of doing something that is good right there and then and letting customer out the door with a 30seconds/30feet warranty.

Also, don't mix 20 y/o cars most people get as a weekend fun car and a new car that most people will drive daily.

CARB legal isn't good enough?

That's not what I meant. Introducing a turbo car that will eat quite a bit more premium gas and pollute more depends on what else is being produced. If it's gonna be below standards required for, say 2015, there will have to something else to be above the said standard to bring corporate average where it should be. Designing that other car is also a cost of turboing an FRS/BRZ. Aftermarket doesn't have to do anything similar.

 

[RocZX]

Subaru Allocating 2,000 More BRZs To The U.S.

Unsure of BRZ interest in the United States, Subaru originally opted to import just 6,000 units annually, or about 500 per month. That’s nowhere near demand, and in the words of Subaru of America COO Tom Doll, “We are selling all the BRZ’s we can get. We’ve been sold out since the car was introduced.”

Relief for buyers may be in sight. As Automotive News reports, Subaru of America will get an additional 2,000 BRZs over the next four months, doubling allocation from 500 to 1,000 units per month.

Even that may not be enough to satisfy demand, but it’s a step in the right direction. It’s unclear if the additional allocation is a one-time padding of inventory, or if Subaru of America will request additional allocation throughout 2013.

MotorAuthority

 

[Beeblebrox237]

You can't imagine how awesome I felt reading that. It's great to know that there's a market for an affordable, sporty car that isn't loaded with technology or horsepower, as we are seeing heavier and more powerful cars become the norm. It's also nice to see a small automaker like Subaru have such a successful model, even if it was co-developed with Toyota.

 

[CodeRedR51]

This car kicks all kinds of ass.

 

[Bram Turismo]

even if it was co-developed with Toyota.

Why do people continue to make it sound like a bad thing that this car was developed by Toyota?

I think Toyota has more than proven what kind of genius' they've got working for them with the Lexus LF-A and the GT86. And I definitely like the way Toyota is going since they cancelled every single sporty car they had left at the time of the MR-S.

Look at the new Lexus GS F-sport TMG whatever thingy. That car looks bonkers, probably goes like bonkers too.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Why do people continue to make it sound like a bad thing that this car was developed by Toyota?

I think Toyota has more than proven what kind of genius' they've got working for them with the Lexus LF-A and the GT86. And I definitely like the way Toyota is going since they cancelled every single sporty car they had left at the time of the MR-S.

Look at the new Lexus GS F-sport TMG whatever thingy. That car looks bonkers, probably goes like bonkers too.

I think that it is great that it was co-developed with Toyota, however, in the context of my post, it means that the BRZ is not necessarily Subaru's own unique model, so while it's nice to see them do well, it seems that they are a bit dependent on larger automakers, which is not what I want.

I would like to see a sports car that really embodies what Subarus are all about, rather than a RWD sports coupé. It's fantastic, yes, but it has no Subaru heritage.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

I would like to see a sports car that really embodies what Subarus are all about, rather than a RWD sports coupé. It's fantastic, yes, but it has no Subaru heritage.

No hate on Subaru owners but, this is one thing that I have never understood about people that either own a Subaru or love Subi's. They think that every car Subaru ever makes has to have a AWD system, a sedan body, and a boxer engine. It seems that when a car they are selling without it, "Isn't cool" or, "Isn't a proper Subaru." Just let the company do as it pleases and praise the good cars that come out of it.

 

[RACECAR]

Why do people continue to make it sound like a bad thing that this car was developed by Toyota?

I think its purely because to some (at least as far as I tell), they feel the BRZ is not a true Subaru.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Yes, that's right. If it had been developed chiefly by Subaru, then I would feel that it is a true Subie. however, as it was jointly developed and is being co-distributed with Toyota, It is neither a true Toyota or Subaru.

EDIT:Allow me to clarify- a true Subaru is a car developed ONLY by Subaru, then it's a true Subaru. It has nothing to do with AWD, body styles, transmissions, or boxer engines.

 

[dsgerbc]

They think that every car Subaru ever makes has to have a AWD system, a sedan body, and a boxer engine.

You're missing a big chunk: people who need a liftgate in the back of their subaru (also turbo+stick shift).

 

[sumbrownkid]

I think its purely because to some (at least as far as I tell), they feel the BRZ is not a true Subaru.

But the irony is that Subaru did almost all the leg work while Toyota was mainly a financier.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

You're missing a big chunk: people who need a liftgate in the back of their subaru (also turbo+stick shift).

Either way, you get my point. If Subaru listened to their fans, they would only have 1 type of car. Which is boring.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

But the irony is that Subaru did almost all the leg work while Toyota was mainly a financier.

Really?

 

[dsgerbc]

But the irony is that Subaru did almost all the leg work while Toyota was mainly a financier.

Lol, no. Toyota's hardware chirping in my car disagrees

Seriously though, the car wouldn't have happened without engineers from both companies.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Boy do I feel awkward now.

 

[Jav]

This car kicks all kinds of ass.

Very nice car, very similar to your shop's car but better taste on wheels...(meaning the gold ones from SEMA)

No hate on Subaru owners but, this is one thing that I have never understood about people that either own a Subaru or love Subi's. They think that every car Subaru ever makes has to have a AWD system, a sedan body, and a boxer engine. It seems that when a car they are selling without it, "Isn't cool" or, "Isn't a proper Subaru." Just let the company do as it pleases and praise the good cars that come out of it.

Subbie owner and enthusiast here and I love this car and the mentality behind it. But I do see your point, probably because I'm a car enthusiast before I am a Subaru enthusiast.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> A newb on the streets...

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