Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)
- Thread starter Azuremen
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It's two inline fours joined together.
- 5,065
- Fort Worth
- That_sneaky_azN
- 24,002
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Isn't the ZX-12R an inline 4?
To make a W layout engine, you really need a narrow angle VR for each bank. A regular bike V4 would make an X layout.
- 38,951
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
Who said it was a V4? It's an inline 4 in the bike.
- 5,065
- Fort Worth
- That_sneaky_azN
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
I made a mistake, the ZX12R engine is indeed inline 4, I edited my post on page 161, sorry for the confusion.
- 23,800
- Philippines
No replacement for displacement. Go 3.0 with a Hartley (if you can find one... sad to find out they've folded engine production... 
(look, there's my frowny face)) and you can get up to 500 hp... good for maybe two or three races then it's out of the car to be rebuilt... 
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I love the idea of an 11k screaming V8... but honestly, if you're building a V8 car that will need a teardown more often than usual... usual being for most owners either once or never... then why waste a BRZ on that? Why not just get a V8 Atom or DP, which will be much more thrilling, faster and... faster?
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Anyone put an LS in the... oh... been done? For $40k, including car, engine and transmission?
(look, there's my frowny face)) and you can get up to 500 hp... good for maybe two or three races then it's out of the car to be rebuilt... .I love the idea of an 11k screaming V8... but honestly, if you're building a V8 car that will need a teardown more often than usual... usual being for most owners either once or never... then why waste a BRZ on that? Why not just get a V8 Atom or DP, which will be much more thrilling, faster and... faster?
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Anyone put an LS in the... oh... been done? For $40k, including car, engine and transmission?
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
When I first heard of the 86, I thought people were silly for wanting more power from it.
Then, I drove an 86, around a tight city course, with lots of opportunities to go sideways. I still thought people were silly for wanting more power.
More recently, I drove a 370Z Nismo, which I quite liked.
A few days later, I drove a BRZ. Now, I think the idea of an LS-engined BreezeFrees is quite neat.
The flat four isn't a bad engine and I'd still not say it's a slow car as such, but it's really not a fantastic engine to wring out, at least when it's a bit new and tight. A bone-stock NC MX-5 actually feels quicker on the road than the BRZ/86, as does basically any modern hot hatch, so unfortunately the 86 has fallen a bit further down my list of wants. Which is a pity, because I still quite like everything else about it.
- 23,800
- Philippines
This is precisely my (banging-head-on-the-wall) problem with the 86, and it's infuriating that people will accuse you of being a power-hungry meathead when you complain about the car.
Simply: The NC MX-5 feels more immediate and is actually just as quick (and feels faster due to the better torque curve) as the 86 with less power, and the 50:50 balance just makes it feel more right. And many a warm/hot hatch is faster, and with a polar moment of inertia and a liveliness similar to the BRZ's, only lacking that last little bit of ability when it comes time to negotiate a constant radius curve under power. (But for kinks, switchbacks and sharp corners, oh joy)
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The ND in 2.0 form will finally reach journalist hands over the coming year, and people will once again rediscover the joys of the MX-5's 50:50 weight balance, hopefully with an engine package that produces about 170-ish horses, and start wondering why the 86 needed more to do less. As it is, the initial reviews are already extremely enthusiastic.
It might be a sharp blow to a car whose sales are already dropping after the initial rush... unless Toyota pulls something out of its hat for the facelift.
Or the MX-5 might not sell all that well. We'll find out in a year.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
My FB photo from Wales was very much related to the latest crop of hot hatches. I drove all but one of them, and all of the ones I drove (even the slowest one) would murder an 86 along the roads we drove them on - hilly, twisty, lots of damp patches and dusty patches. And all but maybe a couple of them are honestly more fun on the road, too, even if I prefer basic things about the 86 more such as the driving position and the control weightings.
(As a side note, this month's mag will be epic).
Keef
Premium
- 25,166
- Dayton, OH
- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
Nonsense. The BRZFRS is better damped and much less skittish than the NC. It's definitely the better driving car of the two. The perfect balance of the Miata has less to do with its handling dynamics than its lackluster suspension tuning which results in a noticeably less neutral handling balance than the BRZFRS. Even the BRZ, the more stable of the two, is more neutral than the NC.
More nonsense. Driving on rails is not my idea of joy. Front-drive cars lack control, plain and simple.
The fact that the ND will/does handle better than the NC goes to show that the weight balance isn't the deciding factor. A better-tuned suspension is what will result in a better handling balance.
- 23,800
- Philippines
I like the BRZ tuning. I feel that the FRS/86 tuning simply sacrifices too much grip for "fun".... and by "fun", I mean sliding rather than turning. In the time we drove the 86, I liked its basic composure and its controls, but wondered why it felt like cornering on ice on dry tarmac. Even with the exact same tires, the first NC MX-5 I drove had sharper turn-in and better composure.
I won't disagree that the NC is skittish or requires/required fixing. The pre-facelift NC actually felt good since that had less aggressive suspension tuning and rubber (at least the one I drove, did). They fixed that for the facelift (and the steering, too... hallelujah...) but that made it a bit more finicky to countersteer.
The NC, whicever you pick, is neutral. The 86 has more noticeable "push" on the same tires. When an MX5 lets go... it's typically both ends at once (on the 86 tires, not the stickier Potenzas). With the 86, you can feel the nose pushing, pushing, pushing... or the tail simply snapping out way wider than in an MX5. That push is what helps make the 86 an easy car to oversteer in... because you can let off when it starts to induce a slide, and you've got that comfortable cushion of understeer to lean on when riding it out.
Define control. The only thing front-drivers lack... the ones that aren't nerfed by overly safe suspension tuning... is the ability to tuck the nose in on the throttle. (you do it off)
So why wouldn't that work for a front-driver?
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Better tuned, in this case, is the BRZ. The 86 is just too "safe" for me. Will admit, though, that suspension calibrations may vary greatly between the 86 and the FRS, so I don't know how the FRS feels. But if I were taking a car on track, I'd rather one that allowed me to explore my personal limits rather than one that flattered me into playing oppo superhero every single corner, thanks.
- 11,906
- Marin County
Stock for stock, I find the NC more fun than the ZN6. They are close, but to me the NC feels sharper and more responsive.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
I've never seen so many cars not on rails as I saw last week on our hot hatch test. Even the ones you might assume to be a bit dull have fantastic balance these days.
Unfortunately, you only get... I think two of the ones we tested out there. And I'm not sure whether either is watered down for sale in the U.S.
The 86 would need a heap more power before it begins to approach the sort of fun the modern hot hatches are capable of delivering. People can do that in the aftermarket of course and I don't doubt the 86 would quickly become more fun on account of its dynamic attributes... but stock for stock, having driven the cars in question, I'd now opt for one of the front-drivers.
Or a used 370Z, which is far more fun than the 86.
In a market so devoid of affordable, lightweight rear-drive cars, they're about as close to alternatives as we get right now.
This I agree with.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
I've only driven the Nismo so can't comment on the regular ones, but unless you're driving like a lunatic the 370 is just more fun more of the time.
The extra power (and more linear throttle response) is hugely welcome, as is the extra grip, and I prefer the weightier steering and gearshift. You get a little more feedback through the steering in the 86 and I'm led to believe the regular 370 starts to run out of ideas when you're really pushing it, but as something to drive day to day? 370 every time.
I'm holding my hands up now and admitting I was wrong before - when the 86 came out it looked great on paper and there are almost certainly posts from me in this thread questioning why you'd want more power.
But on the road, having driven the sort of cars you can buy for similar money as comparison, that engine really sucks the life out of its appeal.
Truth be told the 370's engine is a bit breathless at the top end too but it does so much more at the bottom and in the mid-range than the 86/BRZ, which is where you spend most of your time on the road, that it's far less of a problem.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,319
- United States
I've thrown a few 370's around in my short lifetime, and they are quite fun. But never driven an 86, so can't comment on that.
CodeRedR51
Premium
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- United States
The Vanishing Boy
Premium
- 9,000
- Quezon City, Philippines & Las Vegas, NV
- GTP_VanishingBoy
- Vanishing Boy
^ I heard it first from SubaruWRXFan YT channel. And he was hyper-ventilating the whole video!
-> We just have to wait and see...
-> We just have to wait and see...
- 11,906
- Marin County
That wing is hideous. I hope that isn't a production car.
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
I call april fools.
RocZX
Premium
- 8,849
- New York
It's a BRZ STI concept.
Road & Track posted an article but now deleted it.
Found on -http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2193993&postcount=161
"It's has Super GT engine, most likely a race-modified, naturally-aspirated EJ20"
Road & Track posted an article but now deleted it.
Found on -http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2193993&postcount=161
"It's has Super GT engine, most likely a race-modified, naturally-aspirated EJ20"
- 5,065
- Fort Worth
- That_sneaky_azN
An AWD system can't fit in one of these without compromising anything, right?
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,319
- United States
Engine sits too far back.
