Setup Vs. Setup

[sucahyo]

The better your flywheel, the better the acceleration, for the same gear ratios. One thing doesn't "replace" the other...

I still think that using 0-1000m as gear speed measurement is important, because using all your setting (except gear) this is what I get on 0-1000m (sorted from slow to fast):

23.297 using auto 10 on 5.500, max speed is 267km/h (on max speed test)
23.240 using auto 10 on 4.320, max speed is still 267
22.912 using auto 10 on 2.500, max speed is still 267
22.701 using auto 1 on 3.790, final gear on 2.500, max speed is 270 (I try to make it close to 267)

From those result, I still think that using 2.500 final gear is faster than 5.500, and It has the same effect as lighten the flywheel because the top speed is still the same.

My conclusion is the lower the final gear, the better the acceleration, for the same auto setting. Same auto setting will give the same top speed on every final gear.

I get the same result on other car except most skyline which already have very light flywheel, using 2.500 final gear make the acceleration very rough, sometimes it slows it down.

This is why I think your time is awesome, I get 0.5 second faster on straight, faster on turn with higher downforce, and still get 1 second slower time than yours

I know how Batman feels, because the only game I play is GT2. I stop playing NFSU 2 because I can't change car handling like GT2 does (make understeer car oversteer, etc).

 

[MacRoadster]

sorry i havnt been around guys...makes me feel good that you miss me..i feel important lol...ill try to get going up here again...i have one major problem..

GT2 disc got wrecked by my buddy, roled over it with his conputer chair.

Snapped in half :'(

Ouch... that's bad...
That's another reason why i like to play GT2 on my PC with cd images, i can keep the CDs in a safe place.

My conclusion is the lower the final gear, the better the acceleration, for the same auto setting. Same auto setting will give the same top speed on every final gear.

That's funny, because i use final ratio all the time to adjust top speed (lower value = higher top speed) when i go from one track to another, with same car and not changing auto or individual gear ratios...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Rite on guys. Finally got to the Lotus Elise 190 @ Seattle Short. What a handfull! You know what? I'll be honest. My lap time sucked, but I got the car the way I like. The spin factor is reduced, mostly. Yet if I wanted my car to hang some tail, I could just hammer the brakes and get a little oversteer.

Turns 1 & 2: this is Alaskan Way turning onto the Alaskan Way viaduct in real life. I basically brake at about 100m. If I brake later, I can get a bit of o. steer, but this is pretty tricky to manage without going into a spin.

Turn 3: I slow a little without brakes, then let the throttle in.

Turn 4: UGH. This is where you reach the top of the hill. The Lotus kept wanting to throw its rear weight forward here when I braked so most of my damper settings, downforce and ride height were dialed in so it WOULDN'T do this!

Turn 5: Take full on.

Turns 6, 7, 8. there are the 3 90° corners. If you don't brake early enough before turn 6, it'll mess you up for the next 2 corners. Your speed and position thru these corners will suffer if you get that first one wrong.

Turn 9: my favorite corner. You come down the hill, swoop in with a bit of brakes, and nail it.

Turns 10 & 11: the last 2 corners. I could get thru at about 63 mph.

Springs: 3.7 / 4.6
Height: 130 / 120 mm
B. Dampers: 5/3
R. Dampers: 4/1
Camber: 3.4°/1.0°
Toe: +.05 / 0.0
Stabilizers: 1/3

Brake: 12/16

Tranny: Auto5 with stock final drive
1st: 3.574
2nd: 2.429
3rd: 1.725
4th: 1.343
5th: 1.054

Downforce: .15/.45
LSD: 40/18/32 with no traction ctrls.

All Soft (not super soft) Tires
Single plate clutch / Sports Flywheel

I'll jump in your cars later Mac & Sucyaho (sorry if I spelled that wrong). I gotta eat some pizza.

 

[sucahyo]

That's funny, because i use final ratio all the time to adjust top speed (lower value = higher top speed) when i go from one track to another, with same car and not changing auto or individual gear ratios...

My mistakes, I didn't notice your setting use auto 1 on 5.500 and then using final gear 4.320, with some modification on gear 1 to 5.

But that's not what I meant, If you don't change auto setting, of course you have faster top speed when make the final gear smaller, because you don't change the value of gear 1 to 5. But when you change auto setting, then the gear from 1 to 5 will also change.

Example:
using auto 10 on 4.320 will give you
1st: 2.862
2nd: 1.887
3rd: 1.350
4th: 1.021
5th: 0.817
Final gear: 4.320
max speed 267, 0-1000m time 23.240, 0-400 time 12.808

using auto 10 on 2.500 will give you
1st: 4.947
2nd: 3.262
3rd: 2.333
4th: 1.765
5th: 1.413
Final gear: 2.500
max speed 267, 0-1000m time 22.912, 0-400 time 12.586

using auto 1 on 3.790 will give you
1st: 4.279
2nd: 2.978
3rd: 2.196
4th: 1.707
5th: 1.398
Final gear: 3.790
max speed 177, 0-1000m time 24.928, 0-400 time 12.638

then, when you change the final gear to 2.500 without changing auto setting, you will get
1st: 4.279
2nd: 2.978
3rd: 2.196
4th: 1.707
5th: 1.398
Final gear: 2.500
max speed 270, 0-1000m time 22.701, 0-400 time 12.459


Another example
Using your gear setting
auto 1 on 5.500, final gear set to 4.320, manual change on gear 1 - 5
1- 2.782
2- 1.953
3- 1.480
4- 1.180
5- 0.955
Final- 4.320
Auto- 10
max speed 228, 0-1000m time 23.006, 0-400m time 12.515

Using normal gear setting
auto 6 on 2.500, final gear set to 2.500, no 1 - 5 gear change
1- 5.467
2- 3.694
3- 2.679
4- 2.051
5- 1.658
Final- 2.500
Auto- 6
max speed 227, 0-1000m time 22.853, 0-400m time 12.595

Using my smaller gear setting
auto 1 on 3.230, final gear set to 2.500, no 1 - 5 gear change
1- 5.022
2- 3.494
3- 2.577
4- 2.003
5- 1.640
Final- 2.500
Auto- 1
max speed 230, 0-1000m time 22.733, 0-400m time 12.533

just for references
auto 1 on 5.500, final gear set to 2.500
max speed more than 277, 0-1000m time 23.667, 0-400 time 13.332
Btw, your setting is very nervous on the max speed test corner

The speed difference from your setting is atleast 0.2 second on 0-1000, even when penalize with 0.02 second on short straight, using my gear setting should be faster.

Also notice my first gear setting and last

auto 1 on 3.790, final gear set to 2.500
max speed 270, 0-1000m time 22.701, 0-400 time 12.459

auto 1 on 3.230, final gear set to 2.500
max speed 230, 0-1000m time 22.733, 0-400m time 12.533

Even with higher topspeed, the first setting have better short and long straight acceleration.

I don't change those gear manually, I just change the final gear and auto setting.

Try to lap seattle short with my last gear setting, if you can reach 7600 rpm on straight using previous gear setting, you should be able to reach it with my last setting. With 0.2 second faster on 0-1000m, you should have faster lap time.

I'll jump in your cars later MAc & sucyaho (sorry if i spelled that wrong). I gotta eat some pizza.

It's ok.

Why are you using single plate clutch, sports flywheel, and soft tires ?
Won't it gives you slower acceleration and slower cornering ?
I try your setting, I feel the car is understeer and I get spin easily.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Sucahyo, it's because I'm not interested in the best lap times. There's already other threads that involve people's best times; what this is supposed to be about (at least how it started) is what settings would I use during a typical race. And then I compare how my car feels to the way someone else's car handles. Super soft slicks in particular tend to make some cars extremely grippy. I've found they make the steering too direct, and I only use them on cars like 60's & 70's American muscle, Jaguar & Aston Martin sedans since they handle poorly. Sometimes I'll use S.Softs on full-blown 600 hp+ race cars, too.

Anyways, that's the way this thread evolved...but it's turning into something else, which is fine, but I'm not gonna compromise. I tend to downplay my cars when I do sim races so that I don't give myself too much of an advantage. I don't like using all the best parts because then I win all the time without really trying and GT2 gets boring! Make sense?

 

[sucahyo]

I tend to downplay my cars when i do sim races so that i don't give myself too much of an advantage. I don't like using all the best parts because then i win all hte time without really trying and GT2 gets boring! Make sense?

Yes, I agree.
Although I have different way of fun. I usually use car that have lower power to weight ratio than the slowest car on the race, I use the best setting available for that car.
My favorite car is skyline, and skyline that has the lowest power weight ratio and still 4WD is Skyline GTS4 (R32,J) '91 (0.14). I like to race this car on Deep forest in Tuned turbo No.1. Even if I usually end up in 2nd position, trying to win against Mine Lancer Evo V (0.24) is fun. I loss on straight, but win on corner ,especially last corner when computer controlled car limited to 165km/h, and we have 200km/h (I check it when the race is finish and computer take over the car) . To make the car more competitive, I enjoy trying many different seting. I like the feel that I can beat faster car like mine r34 (0.23), r34 gtr (0.26), nismo 270r (0.18), rx7 gtc (0.27), TRD2000GT (0.20), tom's supra (0.25), etc. In this race using lotus europa (0.20) or lotus elise 190 (0.19) to win is easier.

About gear setting, I just want to tell that there is faster gear setting than using standard "auto 1 on 5.500 then change final gear to whatever speed you need" and auto 10 on 2.500 is faster than auto 10 on default final gear. I am just sad that nobody believe me

 

[-Batman-]

weooooo went to the used game store and bought another CD...i should be back here within a week?

 

[sucahyo]

Happy playing

Anyone has Elise 190 setting for deep forest? My setting still give me drift
Springs: 2.0 / 2.0
Height: 89 / 135mm
B. Dampers: 1/1
R. Dampers: 3/3
Camber: 4.0 °/ 0.0°
Toe: -0.20 / +0.20
Stabilizers: 7/7

Brake: 12/12

Downforce: 47/76
No LSD

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yes, I agree.
Although I have different way of fun. I usually use car that have lower power to weight ratio than the slowest car on the race, I use the best setting available for that car.
My favorite car is skyline, and skyline that has the lowest power weight ratio and still 4WD is Skyline GTS4 (R32,J) '91 (0.14). I like to race this car on Deep forest in Tuned turbo No.1. Even if I usually end up in 2nd position, trying to win against Mine Lancer Evo V (0.24) is fun. I loss on straight, but win on corner ,especially last corner when computer controlled car limited to 165km/h, and we have 200km/h (I check it when the race is finish and computer take over the car) . To make the car more competitive, I enjoy trying many different seting. I like the feel that I can beat faster car like mine r34 (0.23), r34 gtr (0.26), nismo 270r (0.18), rx7 gtc (0.27), TRD2000GT (0.20), tom's supra (0.25), etc. In this race using lotus europa (0.20) or lotus elise 190 (0.19) to win is easier.

About gear setting, I just want to tell that there is faster gear setting than using standard "auto 1 on 5.500 then change final gear to whatever speed you need" and auto 10 on 2.500 is faster than auto 10 on default final gear. I am just sad that nobody believe me

It's not that I personally don't believe you, I'm sure what you say is true. I personally am not all that obsessed with fastest speed like I said before, I like the actual feel of the cars...that's what's important to me. But I find your final drive experiments very interesting.

I agree with you about the last corner in Deep Forest. I've won many a race by outbraking or out-accelerating past the AI! That's one of my favorite corners actually. The computer does it too slow and if you're too close behind the AI when you come out of that corner, you'll wind up tagging him in the back. I, too have lost my share of races. If you go by the guidelines on my webpage, you'll lose a few, too, tho you'll still win more than you lose.

 

[sucahyo]

It's not that i personally don't believe you, i'm sure what you say is true my friend. I personally am not all that obsessed with fastest speed like i said before, i like the actual feel of the cars...that's what's important to me. But i find your final drive experiments very interesting.

Oh I see,
I have the same interest, although I prefer out-cornering the AI on easy corner than out accelerating it.
Right now I am trying to win GT300 (because you said the AI is better) with 391hp skyline 280 type MR (to make the P2P power to weight ratio equal to celica weds), its fun! you don't get behind too much on straight and you can always correct your cornering mimicking the AI . Good race to train my cornering skill 👍

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Oh I see,
I have the same interest, although I prefer out-cornering the AI on easy corner than out accelerating it.
Right now I am trying to win GT300 (because you said the AI is better) with 391hp skyline 280 type MR (to make the P2P power to weight ratio equal to celica weds), its fun! you don't get behind too much on straight and you can always correct your cornering mimicking the AI . Good race to train my cornering skill 👍

I've got a handful of used memory cards that are packed with replays of my best racing: no slamming other cars, no nonsense, just pure cornering skills with hungry AI desperately trying to catch up and knock me off course. Usually I'll get ahead of others in the turns but lose ground in the straights. It can be frustrating to lose a race here and there (I probably lose about 1 in 5 at this point) but I'd rather lose the occasional than win 100%.

.....sorry I keep saying the same things over and over, I'm like a broken record!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

weooooo went to the used game store and bought another CD...i should be back here within a week?

Congrats on the new disc, dude.

oh by the way

Audi S4 on what track?

Audi S4 on what track?

Audi S4, what track?

You get to choose the track! WE're still waiting...

 

[sucahyo]

Usually i'll get ahead of others in the turns but lose ground in the straights. It can be frustrating to lose a race here and there (i probably lose about 1 in 5 at this point) but i'd rather lose the occasional than win 100%.

Well, it seems that this race is too hard for me, using 399hp can only make me 3rd place on average.

 

[Jmac279]

Well, it seems that this race is too hard for me, using 399hp can only make me 3rd place on average.

What race ? I'm too lazy to read through the whole thread

 

[sucahyo]

What race ? I'm too lazy to read through the whole thread

GT300 using skyline 280 type MR

 

[Jmac279]

Any other restrictions or can I use any upgrade I want as long as my power doesn't exceed 399 hp ?

 

[sucahyo]

Any other restrictions or can I use any upgrade I want as long as my power doesn't exceed 399 hp ?

yes, no other restrictions, only the hp. But because this is a skyline, using stock gear can be faster than using custom gear with final drive lower than stock (gear setting become black art). Using 2.500 final drive can give me 1000m time between 20.573 to 22.654 (happens when the rpm ripple). Using 5.000 final drive will give steady acceleration.

 

[Jmac279]

I did 20.267 with a 3.700 final drive (397 hp, 321.8 lb-ft) ... So ... yeah ... please stop telling me to use a 2.500 final drive ...

 

[sucahyo]

I did 20.267 with a 3.700 final drive (397 hp, 321.8 lb-ft) ... So ... yeah ... please stop telling me to use a 2.500 final drive ...

yes, of course, I know, but I already mention that on car that have unsteady rpm change when accelerate, using 2.500 final drive will make the problem worse. So I still force you to use it on other car that don't have that problem

I try to race using 2.500 final drive, in the same gear and speed, when the rpm needle ripple my car get passed, but when it's not my car can leave other car.

And BTW, can you give your other setting? I can't get those time, the closest I get using 3.700 final drive (auto 1 on 5.500) is 20.800

 

[Jmac279]

I've got time tonight ... Care to name a few ?

BTW, I won all 5 races w/ the Skyline 280 Type MR, winning by at least 0.5 seconds each round (lowest margin of victory was 0.549 in Round 1) ... I don't remember how to take screenshots in ePSXe, though ... The Help file doesn't tell you

 

[sucahyo]

BTW, I won all 5 races w/ the Skyline 280 Type MR, winning by at least 0.5 seconds each round (lowest margin of victory was 0.549 in Round 1) ... I don't remember how to take screenshots in ePSXe, though ... The Help file doesn't tell you

Awesome ! Can you do it in Skyline GTS4 ?
Alt-Printscreen works for me.
What car do you think that have low power but hardest to drive ?

 

[sucahyo]

Anyone like tweaking suspension ?
What change to your setting do you prefer to:
- reduce understeer
- reduce oversteer
- reduce drifting (it seems my setting end up drifting easily)
- increase cornering speed
- reduce spin cause by road bump
?

 

[Jmac279]

Awesome ! Can you do it in Skyline GTS4 ?

I won the first 2 races ... then my anti-virus updated in the middle of Deep Forest and caused me to lose control of my car while going around a corner (as in my controller stopped responding).

I'd just owned the competition at Laguna, too

 

[sucahyo]

I won the first 2 races ...

I want to win too !
On the first race, on which corner do you have the biggest advantage over the AI?
Do you still have the setting for skyline 280 Type MR? can you post it ? Maybe I can use it to beat GT300 race ......

 

[Jmac279]

I had the biggest advantage on Turn 2 ...

No, I don't have the setting ... I usually don't save the game when I'm just trying stuff out ...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

GT300 using skyline 280 type MR

I find that when I race the GT300 using my pound-to-power restriction, that I'll often lose the first race at GV east, but Apricot Hill and Midfield are guaranteed wins for me. But this is mostly because I'm not all that good at the esses in GV east, not the lack of power.

 

[sucahyo]

I find that when i race the GT300 using my pound-to-power restriction, that i'll often lose the first race at GV east, but Apricot Hill and Midfeild are guaranteed wins for me. But this is mostly because i'm not all that good at the esses in GV east, not the lack of power.

Yes, me too, the GV east is the hardest race for me. Winning using skyline GTS4 is hard, I have to use many save and load ...................
I try to win with car that have the same P2P with celica weds but it seems that other car (non race car, K car) have slower acceleration (maybe because slower engine response? heavier flywheel?). Subaru 360 that have better P2P cannot keep up with Celica weds in the first race (it seems fun to race with it though).

 

[Jmac279]

It's because the Power:Weight Ratio is only relevant to acceleration ... Top speed is determined only by the aerodynamics and power. This is why the lower power cars, although having a similar Power:Weight Ratio, simply cannot keep up at high speeds. Also, their lower displacement engines typically have a peaky power curve, making their average power considerably lower than a larger displacement engine with similar peak power.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

It's because the Power:Weight Ratio is only relevant to acceleration ... Top speed is determined only by the aerodynamics and power. This is why the lower power cars, although having a similar Power:Weight Ratio, simply cannot keep up at high speeds. Also, their lower displacement engines typically have a peaky power curve, making their average power considerably lower than a larger displacement engine with similar peak power.

All true. I'm thinking of giving the lighter cars softer tires so they can have an even better chance in the corners, and giving the heavier cars tires with a harder compound. I'm always trying to make my sim game more balanced as far as competition is concerned. ¬

 

[sucahyo]

Sucahyo, with the lower/softer height/springs you turn better........
Still i did a best of 57.501 with those settings.
That car on that track can do at least 56.5xx (looking at my best times in each sector), don't know if someone better than me can take it to 55.xxx, but at least 56.xxx i know it's possible.

My mistake....., sure that soft spring can make turn easier but I just found out that using harder spring can increase your cornering speed .........

Using soft spring only give me 1.13 on redrock valley
Springs: 2.0/2.0
Damper Bound: 1/1
Damper Rebound: 5/5


while using hard give me 1.10 !
Springs: 16.0/14.0
Damper Bound: 1/1
Damper Rebound: 5/5


Applying it on Lotus Elise 190 on Short seattle give me 55.8xx !, I think someone better can get 54.xxx ..............
Springs: 14.0/16.0
Damper Bound: 1/1
Damper Rebound: 5/5
Camber: 3.5/0.0 (short seattle) 12.0/0.0 (redrock valley)
Toe: -2.00/0.00

I can turn with 137mph in first corner on redrock!

Is this why everybody has fast time ? I have no idea that with harder spring can give faster cornering time before ................
I think I will make harder spring as standard 💡 .........