Shell out $500 to play GT7?

[Victoria H]

We'll probably have to shell out $1000 for the PS5 and $100 for GT7 over here.

Consider yourself lucky.

 

[Imari]

The one who is passing the car in front of him Before the turn it is his responsibility not to make first contact so maybe PD can make that the first rule.

And so what incentive is there for the guy in front not to just crash into the guy trying to make the pass, or run him off the road? It seems like your system is pretty biased towards the car in front keeping his position by any means necessary.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Does anyone think it's a bit odd that you have to shell out $500 to play GT7? Not to mention, $60 for the game?

Hey, you gotta pay to play.

Only thing I'd worry about is will the first PS5s be reliable? Seems like every next generation of consoles always has a lot of early units which fail, as they work out bugs and hardware complications. Because of this, I am reluctant to buy a Playstation 5 until roughly 6 months have passed. GT7 probably won't be out until 2023 or 4, anyway.

 

[Junkman55]

And so what incentive is there for the guy in front not to just crash into the guy trying to make the pass, or run him off the road? It seems like your system is pretty biased towards the car in front keeping his position by any means necessary.

I am. Not a driving instructor but I have experience in Real Racing if a driver make contact with another race car it’s a good chance both of you will be heading home before the race day has ended. It’s that simple, So Are you a gamer or a online race car driver ?

Don’t confuse driving with racing. In driving you should keep a safe distance to the car in front of you. In racing there is no such thing.



It’s the tag line for Gran Turismo, it basically means that the game features real cars.



I’m not sure what you mean by this. Is there a difference between gamers and online racing drivers in terms of what actions constitutes a fault?



Indeed.



The problem is not a lack of rules, the problem is that it’s incredibly hard for an algorithm to accurately judge an incident and decide who is at fault.

If you are proposing to solve this by adding a rule that the attacking driver will always be at fault for any type of contact then you give the defending driver carte blanche to brake check their opponent, run them off the course or deliberately seeking contact in order to give them a penalty.

Let’s be honest you probably have more experience in the fantasy of gaming Than me. I raced in competition for 15 years and 6 years of Online Racing and AI Racing on the PS4 and Pc . I have been driving professionally in my business longer than most . I don’t want to hurt your feeling but why are you making this a pissing contest . You play games I race online you spend as little as possible On gaming, Where I am looking to spend what ever it take to give me the best experience of Online Racing.

You are kidding real driving and racing doesn’t use the same skills the only difference is your heart rate and the need of a shower.

 

[05XR8]

As a GT fan, the end game is to buy a GT title. I've done it for PS1(I think I did get Resident Evil as my first ever PS game before GT1, but I also bought a Japanese PS1 just for GT), PS2, PS3 & PS4. I'm only buying PS5 for GT7. If the backwards compatibility works for the digital games I bought, that's a bonus. Not too worried about if I they don't.

 

[eran0004]

Let’s be honest you probably have more experience in the fantasy of gaming Than me. I raced in competition for 15 years and 6 years of Online Racing and AI Racing on the PS4 and Pc . I have been driving professionally in my business longer than most . I don’t want to hurt your feeling but why are you making this a pissing contest . You play games I race online you spend as little as possible On gaming, Where I am looking to spend what ever it take to give me the best experience of Online Racing.

You are kidding real driving and racing doesn’t use the same skills the only difference is your heart rate and the need of a shower.

I think we have some communication problems, I didn’t say anything about skill differences between driving and racing. What I mentioned was a difference in rules between driving and racing, because I assumed that when you mentioned driving you were talking about driving on a public road. If you meant driving as in “racing in real life with a real car on a real track” then I apologise for the misunderstanding.

I don’t care how much experience you have as a sim racer, because it has no relevance to the feasibility of what you are suggesting. The problem is not a lack of rules, the problem is a lack of ability to analyse incidents. It’s a technical limitation, computers are generally bad at analysing situations like this because these events are complex and unique and there is no simple way to describe them in code. With artificial intelligence and machine learning it might be theoretically possible, but it would require a huge sample size, so for practical reasons it would be very difficult to achieve.

 

[Tricky Vega]

Hey, you gotta pay to play.

Only thing I'd worry about is will the first PS5s be reliable? Seems like every next generation of consoles always has a lot of early units which fail, as they work out bugs and hardware complications. Because of this, I am reluctant to buy a Playstation 5 until roughly 6 months have passed. GT7 probably won't be out until 2023 or 4, anyway.

That's right !

And that's the very first time in life I'm quite nervous asking myself if I'd buy a new gen console on day one.

I've always bought used consoles and currently own two PS3 for less than a 100€ each, a PS4 pro for 250€ in 2018 and a complete playseat with a T300rs for 350€ in 2017.

So I guess I can afford now at 42 years old à new Gen console at its right price.

 

[Junkman55]

I think we have some communication problems, I didn’t say anything about skill differences between driving and racing. What I mentioned was a difference in rules between driving and racing, because I assumed that when you mentioned driving you were talking about driving on a public road. If you meant driving as in “racing in real life with a real car on a real track” then I apologise for the misunderstanding.

I don’t care how much experience you have as a sim racer, because it has no relevance to the feasibility of what you are suggesting. The problem is not a lack of rules, the problem is a lack of ability to analyse incidents. It’s a technical limitation, computers are generally bad at analysing situations like this because these events are complex and unique and there is no simple way to describe them in code. With artificial intelligence and machine learning it might be theoretically possible, but it would require a huge sample size, so for practical reasons it would be very difficult to achieve.

All we have is our opinions that may influence Sony and PD let’s hope their marketing staff looks for customer in put.
I disagree that Computer technology is not capable of producing a simulator that can tell who is at fault In any driving situation As good as a Cornner Marshall or a flag man on a real race track . You do know cars today don’t need a driver to park or drive , that can stop or slow down before hitting Any object, let you know you are drifting out of your lane and other things to many to mention.
I think In computer technology “can’t “Is a bad word and “can do” is a good one.

 

[djm99]

I'd probably have to shell out close to $800 if I want to play GT7... Everything costs more in Australia.

Yep after you've got six games installed, you have to fork out another $200 for an external hard drive.

 

[eran0004]

All we have is our opinions that may influence Sony and PD let’s hope their marketing staff looks for customer in put.
I disagree that Computer technology is not capable of producing a simulator that can tell who is at fault In any driving situation As good as a Cornner Marshall or a flag man on a real race track . You do know cars today don’t need a driver to park or drive , that can stop or slow down before hitting Any object, let you know you are drifting out of your lane and other things to many to mention.
I think In computer technology “can’t “Is a bad word and “can do” is a good one.

They don’t need customer input. The studios are aware of the problem with reckless driving in racing games. They would love to find a solution to it.

Autonomous cars are neat, but they are the result of massive R&D spendings and they solve problems that are very different from those a race steward are dealing with.

There are many things AI can’t do.

 

[Imari]

I am. Not a driving instructor but I have experience in Real Racing if a driver make contact with another race car it’s a good chance both of you will be heading home before the race day has ended. It’s that simple, So Are you a gamer or a online race car driver ?

None of which answers the question. What incentive is there under your system for the driver in front not to be as dirty as possible, knowing that any penalties will be applied to the driver behind?

I disagree that Computer technology is not capable of producing a simulator that can tell who is at fault In any driving situation As good as a Cornner Marshall or a flag man on a real race track .

Given that humans regularly have difficulty judging incidents and disagree on who is at fault and the penalty that should be assigned, I'm not sure what sort of factual basis there could be for you to hold this opinion. Some day a computer may be able to judge racing incidents as accurately or better than a experienced and intelligent human, but it's not today, it's not tomorrow, it's probably not any time in the next ten years, and if you want it on consumer console hardware then it's probably not any time in the next twenty years.

I think In computer technology “can’t “Is a bad word and “can do” is a good one.

All very easy to say when you're not the one who has to write the actual code. Optimism really has nothing to do with how feasible something is.

 

[Junkman55]

They don’t need customer input. The studios are aware of the problem with reckless driving in racing games. They would love to find a solution to it.

Autonomous cars are neat, but they are the result of massive R&D spendings and they solve problems that are very different from those a race steward are dealing with.

There are many things AI can’t do.

What are you trying to say PD can’t fix it ! Who is telling you they can’t fix it ? if you were working for me Your unemployment insurance is about to run out.

 

[eran0004]

What are you trying to say PD can’t fix it ! Who is telling you they can’t fix it ? if you were working for me Your unemployment insurance is about to run out.

If you read the technology review you will find that computers are really bad at cause and effect. They don’t have the common sense that a track marshal or race steward have. If there is a massive pileup in the first corner they can tell that an incident has occurred and trigger a yellow flag, but they can’t tell what caused the incident.

An AI that can understand causality would be a major breakthrough and something that the academic world and the big corporations would love to have. I don’t find it realistic that a small game studio with limited resources would be able to achieve that breakthrough before anyone else. It’s like asking them to build a functional fusion reactor, because gamers would love cheap electricity and the only thing stopping them is a “can’t do”-attitude.

If you don’t believe in technology reviews then I find the scenario of me working for you highly unlikely.

 

[Imari]

What are you trying to say PD can’t fix it ! Who is telling you they can’t fix it ? if you were working for me Your unemployment insurance is about to run out.

You sound like every scientist and engineers worst nightmare of a boss. You want it done so of course it's possible and easy, regardless of trivial things like basic fundamentals of how computers work.

I'd say that you were being funny and playing a stereotype, but you come across as absolutely serious as it's completely consistent with your last half dozen posts. I really hope that you don't have employees, and if you do I really, really hope for their sake that you don't treat them like this.

 

[Junkman55]

You sound like every scientist and engineers worst nightmare of a boss. You want it done so of course it's possible and easy, regardless of trivial things like basic fundamentals of how computers work.

I'd say that you were being funny and playing a stereotype, but you come across as absolutely serious as it's completely consistent with your last half dozen posts. I really hope that you don't have employees, and if you do I really, really hope for their sake that you don't treat them like this.

I had the privilege of meeting some of the Scientist and engineers who put a men on the moon and bring them back. My family sold them use parts to fix there cars I was friend to some of their kids and after the Army repaired their cars. Maybe I like to be around People who Use the words “ Can do”.

I note you don’t say where you get your information from about your “Basic fundamentals of how a computers work “ you question mind. I have a question? Do you do fix your Car when the Check Engine light comes on or do look for people like me .

Yes some my employees didn’t like me , the ones that did stayed . That’s what makes this a great country.

If you read the technology review you will find that computers are really bad at cause and effect. They don’t have the common sense that a track marshal or race steward have. If there is a massive pileup in the first corner they can tell that an incident has occurred and trigger a yellow flag, but they can’t tell what caused the incident.

An AI that can understand causality would be a major breakthrough and something that the academic world and the big corporations would love to have. I don’t find it realistic that a small game studio with limited resources would be able to achieve that breakthrough before anyone else. It’s like asking them to build a functional fusion reactor, because gamers would love cheap electricity and the only thing stopping them is a “can’t do”-attitude.

If you don’t believe in technology reviews then I find the scenario of me working for you highly unlikely.

We use AI every day from the time we wake to the time we sleep believe me the only reason PD has not fix the penalty system is because it’s their marketing department hasn’t made it happen. For what ever the reason it’s all about the money.

Technology Reviews Do they have a topic on GT7 that is giving you the reasons PD hasn’t fix the faults in their Penalty System Good for you.

Let's first figured out who PD wants To part the most money out of our pockets. Is it the Gamer or is it the Online Racing Driver. The Gamers I assure you they know everything about you and how much you will spend on your fancies in gaming. The online racing guys are a little bit hard perhaps they spend more money , Demand more and knows what real feels like on the same GTS. I hope PD is not readIng the same technology reviews you do.

 

[ArR29]

They don’t need customer input. The studios are aware of the problem with reckless driving in racing games. They would love to find a solution to it.

Autonomous cars are neat, but they are the result of massive R&D spendings and they solve problems that are very different from those a race steward are dealing with.

There are many things AI can’t do.

Even real life stewards with multiple cameras and angles make tons of mistake all the time let alone an A.I. There will never be a perfect penalty in videogames, imo.

 

[Junkman55]

Even real life stewards with multiple cameras and angles make tons of mistake all the time let alone an A.I. There will never be a perfect penalty in videogames, imo.

Just reach into your pocket pull out your iPhone and your saying “ There Will Never be“ give me a break. How about not perfect but pretty close to perfect would be fine.

 

[Imari]

I had the privilege of meeting some of the Scientist and engineers who put a men on the moon and bring them back. My family sold them use parts to fix there cars I was friend to some of their kids and after the Army repaired their cars. Maybe I like to be around People who Use the words “ Can do”.

That you think that meeting some engineers and someone who you were related to selling them car parts is evidence of your "can do" attitude says an awful lot about you. You don't know what can do is, you just like it when other people can do it for you. And you get confused when they tell you that something is hard or impossible, because you're not willing to expand your knowledge enough to understand basic principles that might lead to a more effective and nuanced appreciation of the situation.

Which is exactly the point I was making when I said that you're every scientist and engineer's worst nightmare of a boss. People like you watch the video I posted and think "yeah, they just need to try harder and think outside the box a little more". The engineers and scientists who do the work watch the video and think "wow, that's spot on, this is giving me anxiety".

You don't know enough about AI and computers to make an informed judgement. So either educate yourself or stop trying. At the moment you're on the level of a child saying "I want it I want it".

I note you don’t say where you get your information from about your “Basic fundamentals of how a computers work “ you question mind. I have a question? Do you do fix your Car when the Check Engine light comes on or do look for people like me .

I get my information on basic fundamentals of computers from 40 years of using the things. If I'm wrong and current computer systems are in fact completely capable of making complex determinations of causation and fault with a high rate of accuracy from a set of text rules then feel free to point me to where I can learn more about that, because I'd like to use those systems in my professional life. But I don't think you can.

You don't answer questions, but I can answer yours. I fix my MX5 myself, because I enjoy it and I have the ability to do so. I take my Volvo to the local mechanic because it's a workhorse and I value spending my free time on other things. Like the MX5.

Choosing to get a professional to do something for you isn't evidence of a lack of can do attitude, it's evidence that I can correctly assess that my time is better spent doing other things than working on a car. I'm not on minimum wage trying to scrape every last penny, something that you learn as you rise through the ranks is that sometimes it's more efficient and effective to get someone else to do the work even if you could do it yourself. And while local Joe is fixing my car (and doing a damn fine job, because he's a good mechanic) I can use my specialised skills to do the things that make me good at what I do. We both win.

You would seem to be a mechanic of some sort, so tell me this. Why don't we all have flying cars? That seems like something that was pretty common in futuristic media back in the day, so clearly there's a desire for it. Why aren't they a common thing? Why can't you make me a flying car? Not enough can do attitude? Or are there good reasons why flying cars aren't a thing even though they are on paper technically possible?

Yes some my employees didn’t like me , the ones that did stayed . That’s what makes this a great country.

Or the ones that were desperate for a job stayed, despite not liking you. You don't sound like you have a real strong grasp on what motivates people either. Having the money to afford food and a roof over your head is more important than working for someone who has a grasp of reality. Plenty of people will put up with working for a 🤬 boss in order to have a job.

 

[Sage Ages]

Imagine buying a console for only a single game.

 

[Junkman55]

That you think that meeting some engineers and someone who you were related to selling them car parts is evidence of your "can do" attitude says an awful lot about you. You don't know what can do is, you just like it when other people can do it for you. And you get confused when they tell you that something is hard or impossible, because you're not willing to expand your knowledge enough to understand basic principles that might lead to a more effective and nuanced appreciation of the situation.

Which is exactly the point I was making when I said that you're every scientist and engineer's worst nightmare of a boss. People like you watch the video I posted and think "yeah, they just need to try harder and think outside the box a little more". The engineers and scientists who do the work watch the video and think "wow, that's spot on, this is giving me anxiety".

You don't know enough about AI and computers to make an informed judgement. So either educate yourself or stop trying. At the moment you're on the level of a child saying "I want it I want it".

I get my information on basic fundamentals of computers from 40 years of using the things. If I'm wrong and current computer systems are in fact completely capable of making complex determinations of causation and fault with a high rate of accuracy from a set of text rules then feel free to point me to where I can learn more about that, because I'd like to use those systems in my professional life. But I don't think you can.

You don't answer questions, but I can answer yours. I fix my MX5 myself, because I enjoy it and I have the ability to do so. I take my Volvo to the local mechanic because it's a workhorse and I value spending my free time on other things. Like the MX5.

Choosing to get a professional to do something for you isn't evidence of a lack of can do attitude, it's evidence that I can correctly assess that my time is better spent doing other things than working on a car. I'm not on minimum wage trying to scrape every last penny, something that you learn as you rise through the ranks is that sometimes it's more efficient and effective to get someone else to do the work even if you could do it yourself. And while local Joe is fixing my car (and doing a damn fine job, because he's a good mechanic) I can use my specialised skills to do the things that make me good at what I do. We both win.

You would seem to be a mechanic of some sort, so tell me this. Why don't we all have flying cars? That seems like something that was pretty common in futuristic media back in the day, so clearly there's a desire for it. Why aren't they a common thing? Why can't you make me a flying car? Not enough can do attitude? Or are there good reasons why flying cars aren't a thing even though they are on paper technically possible?



Or the ones that were desperate for a job stayed, despite not liking you. You don't sound like you have a real strong grasp on what motivates people either. Having the money to afford food and a roof over your head is more important than working for someone who has a grasp of reality. Plenty of people will put up with working for a 🤬 boss in order to have a job.

The Check Engine Light question must have Been Challenging I was looking to see if you knew it was part of your car emissions system and if you needed to take it to someone when it came on. It is part of your on board computer system in your cars . Boy did you give me more information than I needed to know. Thanks

 

[eran0004]

We use AI every day from the time we wake to the time we sleep believe me the only reason PD has not fix the penalty system is because it’s their marketing department hasn’t made it happen. For what ever the reason it’s all about the money.

We also use kitchen appliances every day, that doesn’t mean that my food blender can be a successful race steward. At some point you’ve got to consider what the technology is capable of.

 

[Imari]

The Check Engine Light question must have Been Challenging I was looking to see if you knew it was part of your car emissions system and if you needed to take it to someone when it came on. It is part of your on board computer system in your cars . Boy did you give me more information than I needed to know. Thanks

Ah, I see. You can't converse with someone who disagrees with you, you just want to look down on people. Good boss.

Why don't we have flying cars?

 

[Sage Ages]

Wonder when people are gonna realized that everything in a video game (yes, even your precious sim racers) is extremely simplified. It's all faked, it's all dumbed down, it's all approximated.

There will never be perfect AI, perfect physics, perfect rendering, etc. There's only so many resources that you have to work with, and you will always be restricted by the end-goal of creating a product that is commercially viable. Polyphony isn't NASA.

 

[Junkman55]

Wonder when people are gonna realized that everything in a video game (yes, even your precious sim racers) is extremely simplified. It's all faked, it's all dumbed down, it's all approximated.

There will never be perfect AI, perfect physics, perfect rendering, etc. There's only so many resources that you have to work with, and you will always be restricted by the end-goal of creating a product that is commercially viable. Polyphony isn't NASA.

Simply put gaming isn’t real , but the competition is real.

Imagine buying a console for only a single game.[/QUOT

I have a PS4 with five game on it one being DriveClub. When PS4Pro With GTS came out At 4K yes one console and one game. Now History will repeat with PS5 and GT7 life is to short.

We also use kitchen appliances every day, that doesn’t mean that my food blender can be a successful race steward. At some point you’ve got to consider what the technology is capable of.

My GE induction stove has an App and I can make it do a lot of things on my iPhone while at the track

 

[MatskiMonk]

"I can fix a car therefore PD can programme a perfect AI penalty system!"

Yup that makes sense...

Now, where'd that ignore button go....

 

[Junkman55]

This has been fun hope to see You on the daily racing Soon

 

[Imari]

This has been fun hope to see You on the daily racing Soon

You gonna be driving on your induction stove?

 

[Liquid]

2001:

Shell out $500 to play GT3?

2010:

Shell out $500 to play GT5?

 

[xhannibalx]

We'll probably have to shell out $1000 for the PS5 and $100 for GT7 over here.

Consider yourself lucky.

Australian..?

 

[ScottPuss20]

Australian..?

Either that or Brazilian because of the ridiculous import taxes they have there. Everything costs twice as much.