Shooting at Empire State Building.

[photonrider]

Let's put together the information on this.

So far as I have gleaned: 10 people shot, 2 dead, 7 triaged at scene.
Shotgun-type gun used. Elevator guy called cops, ran after shooter. Police arrived quickly, took man down.

What else do we know. Was this a robbery gone wrong?

 

[Blitz24]

I was driving through the city at the time, response to it was ridiculously quick (but not quick enough). What I gather is that it was an ex-employee of a company who was quite upset and decided to "shoot up the place".

 

[photonrider]

There has been a spate of shootings recently - these things seem to come in bunches. Heard that it happened on the 5th Ave side. One bystander - a woman - was fatally shot; the ammo was 'aardvark'. ?

 

[terminator363]

I'm not surprised. 'Merica.

But seriously I'm actually curious as to how many victims were accidentely shot by NYPD?

BBC Article

 

[Sam48]

The sad part is that Bloomberg will probably institute even stricter gun laws (As if that's even possible in NYC now), which could potentially make mass shootings even more lethal.

 

[Dooblewasur]

This is terrible...it would seem that there've been a lot of shootings.
Although not as talked about here, about two weeks ago there was a protest in SA where some miners were demanding higher pay...and had weapons.
Over 30 died...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19292909

My heart goes out to the victims of the Empire State shooting and at Merikana.

 

[MarcoM]

I am sorry for the dead and their families.

Bullets and guns are made for just one purpose.

 

[Sam48]

Bullets and guns are made for just one purpose.

Haven't you lost this argument before?

 

[Dean]

Another person gone mad? I wonder why weapons are allowed in the US, if these things happens often.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Another person gone mad? I wonder why weapons are allowed in the US, if these things happens often.

There was a huge lawsuit about it a few months ago. The state of (I think) Wisconsin made it illegal to own a weapon. People were getting mugged and robbed left and right so they lifted the ban.

 

[Zenith]

Another person gone mad? I wonder why weapons are allowed in the US, if these things happens often.

Because banning them would work just as well as alcohol prohibition or the current ban on narcotic drugs.

Apparently 14 of the 19 shots fired by the police hit civilians...

 

[MarcoM]

Haven't you lost this argument before?

Not that I am aware of.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Apparently 14 of the 19 shots fired by the police hit civilians...

The last thing this world needs is incompetent policemen wearing firearms. 14 out of 19 shots hit civilians. 14.

 

[Joey D]

There has been a spate of shootings recently - these things seem to come in bunches. Heard that it happened on the 5th Ave side. One bystander - a woman - was fatally shot; the ammo was 'aardvark'. ?

Come to Detroit, it's unusual not to have a fatal shooting on any given day, hell the former mayor even killed people. It's not that there are more shooting, it's the fact it's something for the media to latch onto. Give it a little bit, they'll get bored and go onto something else.

As for guns, gun laws don't make any difference at all. If you ban all guns only those who are criminals have them and if you allow them freely you get a bunch of idiots with guns. I don't believe the average person owning a gun actually reduces crime. There are many people out there with guns that haven't the foggiest idea how to use them nor have the cojones to actually pull it out when the situation calls for it. I mean do you really think Bob from down the street has the training and mental state to pull out a gun and fire it at someone? Probably not, even cops can choke up when they pull a gun on someone.

I fully believe guns should be legal, but I also think there should be stricter training and education with them. In Michigan it's pretty easy to get a rifle and only slightly harder to get a concealed weapon, you don't even need more than a day or two of class time. I'm not saying people should take 16 weeks of classes to get a gun, but when it requires more training to get a motorcycle license than a concealed weapons permit I think there's something a bit off.

 

[Dean]

There was a huge lawsuit about it a few months ago. The state of (I think) Wisconsin made it illegal to own a weapon. People were getting mugged and robbed left and right so they lifted the ban.

Because banning them would work just as well as alcohol prohibition or the current ban on narcotic drugs.

Apparently 14 of the 19 shots fired by the police hit civilians...

It's illegal in Denmark, unless you've got a Hunters license. Of course, there's people who can't obey rules, but, then if this happens, why even bother.

 

[gamerdog6482]

It's illegal in Denmark, unless you've got a Hunters license. Of course, there's people who can't obey rules, but, then if this happens, why even bother.

In the Wisconsin case, supposedly what happened is all the criminals with guns figured that the people were defenseless. Plus, (Extremely subjective argument alert) it is in the American constitution that owning and operating a firearm is legal with the proper permits.

 

[terminator363]

Apparently 14 of the 19 shots fired by the police hit civilians...

 

[Famine]

Bullets and guns are made for just one purpose.

Haven't you lost this argument before?

Not that I am aware of.

If you're starting on the premise that bullets and guns are made for just one purpose and that purpose is to kill people, you already have.

The purpose of guns is to deliver a projectile at speed to a remote target. The purpose of bullets is to be delivered by a gun at speed to a remote target. Neither has the sole design purpose of killing people.

Some people may do that with them - some people use kitchen knives to do it instead - but that's not the purpose. The overwhelming majority of guns and bullets ever made have not been used to kill people and I'd hazard a guess that the overwhelming majority of guns and bullets ever made have neither been used to injure people nor to kill anything other than people either. If killing people was the purpose, all the folk who use them to hunt or to target shoot are misusing a potential dangerous object. The reality is the reverse.

 

[MarcoM]

If you're starting on the premise that bullets and guns are made for just one purpose and that purpose is to kill people, you already have.

The purpose of guns is to deliver a projectile at speed to a remote target. The purpose of bullets is to be delivered by a gun at speed to a remote target. Neither has the sole design purpose of killing people.

Some people may do that with them - some people use kitchen knives to do it instead - but that's not the purpose. The overwhelming majority of guns and bullets ever made have not been used to kill people and I'd hazard a guess that the overwhelming majority of guns and bullets ever made have neither been used to injure people nor to kill anything other than people either. If killing people was the purpose, all the folk who use them to hunt or to target shoot are misusing a potential dangerous object. The reality is the reverse.

Still not aware that there is an argument I lost, because I never had an argument in the first place.

On topic: 14 of 19 is insane.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Still not aware that there is an argument I lost, because I never had an argument in the first place.

On topic: 14 of 19 is insane.

Still not aware that there is an argument I lost, because I never had an argument in the first place.

Famine is saying that you lost the argument before the argument even started.

 

[shmogt]

Man I remember the days where America was the land of hopes and dreams. Now they are in horrible debt, have lots of ghettos, and now mass shootings like every other week. Total **** hole.

 

[terminator363]

Can we please get back on topic? Anyways, I'm amazed the police would fire 19 rounds in a place full of civilians. It takes on well aimed bullet to stop the assailant - not nearly 20.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Man I remember the days where America was the land of hopes and dreams. Now they are in horrible debt, have lots of ghettos, and now mass shootings like every other week. Total **** hole.

You are exactly right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_Turning#Generational_archetypes_and_Turnings
Very interesting read.

 

[Famine]

Can we please get back on topic?

That is the topic. A shooting occurs and the immediate responses are anti-gun arguments*.

It's how these things go these days.


*It's not limited to shootings. Almost the first statement after the M5 crash was that 70mph speed limits are too high - not that these people noticed the crash was precipitated by 56mph limited HGVs. Over here it's stabbings and people - and no, I'm not kidding - demanding that knives should be banned...

 

[gamerdog6482]

Yahoo has some more details:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/multiple-people-hit-shooting-near-empire-state-building-133611266.html

 

[terminator363]

You are exactly right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_Turning#Generational_archetypes_and_Turnings
Very interesting read.

That was very interesting indeed.

That is the topic. A shooting occurs and the immediate responses are anti-gun arguments*.

It's how these things go these days.

You were arguing with MarcoM whether he had made an argument in the past. You guys were arguing amongst yourselves and not discussing the current topic at hand. Let's carry on shall we?

 

[Sam48]

On topic: 14 of 19 is insane.

I'm starting to wonder if any of the fatalities were the result of this, rather than the lone shooter.

 

[Famine]

You were arguing with MarcoM whether he had made an argument in the past. You guys were arguing amongst yourselves and not discussing the current topic at hand. Let's carry on shall we?

Nope. I was debunking his statement from previously in this thread that guns and bullets are made for just one purpose.

That's how these things go. Shooting, anti-gun statement.

 

[Strittan]

In my opinion, the firearm is perhaps THE worst invention ever, along with religion of course.

 

[Zenith]

Surely you can't be serious. You think that if firearms were never invented then people would never have the urge to kill each other? Do you also wish that forks were never invented so people wouldn't get fat?

Just astounding...