Shooting at Youtube HQ, 4 injuries, attacker dead

[Northstar]

Not to mention, if they truly cared enough about their earnings, why didn’t they just create a patreon or another site where people can donate to other people?

Because than they would have to accept the fact that nobody really gives a 🤬 about whatever it is they post on their channel.

 

[Dan]

Not to mention, if they truly cared enough about their earnings, why didn’t they just create a patreon or another site where people can donate to other people?

If she’s at the point of committing murder because her channel(s) is performing poorly, then I’d say the idea of taking a logical step like creating a donation/crowdfunding account has completely gone out the window.

 

[Danoff]

Well the recurring shootings are baffeling to a lot of the rest of the world. It could be something culturally

Yea, we do seem to be on the violent side of the civilized world, regardless of the particular weapon used for violence. Somehow we have more instances of people who conclude that it is appropriate to take their frustrations out on (for example Youtube) by showing up with a gun. I think some of that is on display in this thread actually, as American politics tends to demonize those who do not agree. People on the left like to claim that Trump and his supporters represent everything that is wrong with the country, and the result has been riots and calls for violence. People on the right like to claim that Hillary and her supporters represented everything that is wrong with the country, and the result was more calls to violence.

There is more to it of course, gang activity is fueled by the war on drugs, etc... but I'd like to invite everyone to see past the particular weapon used and see the notion of violence as a solution being the problem.

 

[DDastardly00]

I think most human beings have a somewhat fragile mental state whether they realize it or not, some more than others... but to some extent we are all vulnerable. All it takes is the wrong set of circumstances to push an individual over the edge and bad things happen, but when it's premeditated (like in the case of this Woman), it's just different, and I have far less empathy for premeditated actions that cause harm and death to others. She also had ample time to seek help, but instead chose the nuclear option. It sounds like her father knew what was about to happen and it's a shame the family didn't intervene sooner and get her the help she needed.

 

[Lain]

10 years ago this wasn't even a profession and it's dubious that it's even one now.

Only dubious to luddites, I'd reckon.

If she’s at the point of committing murder because her channel(s) is performing poorly, then I’d say the idea of taking a logical step like creating a donation/crowdfunding account has completely gone out the window.

Or maybe the shooting was one of her Patreon goals?

 

[Mr Tree]

That may be the case in Belgium but it's not the case here. What you call a Blank, is very, very easy to obtain here. And yes, the bad guys will still be able to get guns. There are over 300 million firearms in the US, that we know about (and probably many more that we don't). There is a reason people counter with the: 'that wouldn't work over here' argument, and it's a reason with a bunch of numbers and statistics behind it. Let's be hypothetical here, and say we threw out the 2nd amendment yesterday, and gun roundups have begun. It's been estimated that it would take about 40-50 years to confiscate the majority and that's assuming all gun manufacturers both in the US and abroad stopped making firearms today, closed up shop permanently (which isn't going to happen). I do think you are right to question that it is a cultural issue because it is, and I would also include the decline in mental health spending and also the closure of mental health care facilities across the US as factors to the rise in violent crimes. The decline started in the 1960's and by the mid 1980's it was fully realized. We just don't have the number of facilities or Physicians to treat patients anymore and the cost of Mental health care has skyrocketed becoming a prohibitive factor for many people seeking treatment. All of these are major issues that we as a nation are going to have to address if we want to see some light at the end of the tunnel.

Yeah if you enforce descent rules today it won't mean the blanks are expensive tomorrow. That takes time... Also the price (something you totally ignored but hey culture right ) won't skyrocket immediatmy but it will. It happened everywhere they implemented these gunlaws...

But hey keep shooting everyone up and be the worlds bread and games under the pretext of culture mate

Honnest question is a solution only a solution if it works instantly?

Also why make drugs illegal? 'bad' people will find a way to use right? See druglawz are useless /s

 

[Robin]

Only dubious to luddites, I'd reckon.

Going quite off topic here but how many people other than a handful really can make a full career (a good wage) out of being a YouTuber? The notion that some people are angry that a free video website isn't giving them money, especially when they are not making a huge effort in the content they are producing, highlights a new low of entitlement in society today imo.

 

[UKMikey]

Going quite off topic here but how many people other than a handful really can make a full career (a good wage) out of being a YouTuber? The notion that some people are angry that a free video website isn't giving them money, especially when they are not making a huge effort in the content they are producing, highlights a new low of entitlement in society today imo.

It just sounds like mental illness to me. She's dead now though so I guess we'll never know for sure although we may suspect heavily. I don't think your typical complainant would go this far.

Perhaps she should have shouted "Sic semper tyrannis" rather than "Come at me bro".

 

[DDastardly00]

Yeah if you enforce descent rules today it won't mean the blanks are expensive tomorrow. That takes time... Also the price (something you totally ignored but hey culture right ) won't skyrocket immediatmy but it will. It happened everywhere they implemented these gunlaws...

But hey keep shooting everyone up and be the worlds bread and games under the pretext of culture mate

Honnest question is a solution only a solution if it works instantly?

Also why make drugs illegal? 'bad' people will find a way to use right? See druglawz are useless /s

I am sorry, did you have an actual solution in all of that banter? One that is realistic? I must have missed it. You conveniently ignored the 300 million firearms statistic and the 40-50 year projection to get them off the street. And all of that is only if our Constitution was magically altered overnight and Firearm manufactures worldwide suddenly have a Kumbaya moment and decided to close up shop and go into the floral industry instead.

When you have a cultural problem, as you alluded to earlier, and you don't address it then bad things will continue to happen. When you don't enforce the laws you have, then bad things are going to happen. When you have a surveillance society but the Surveyors are not doing their jobs effectively, then what is the point? We have the means to solve this problem already, the Gunz R Bad MMkay folks are distracting from the real issue and that is 'Why' these people are committing these acts of violence and how it can be prevented in the future. How can we close the legal loopholes that allow these people back on the streets instead of being committed? Our jails/prisons/correctional facilities are were never intended to be Mental institutions, yet that is how they are being used. They can't hold these people very long unless they have been convicted of an actual crime, so they get let back on the street. But the biggest one is, how can we effectively manage our mental heath care crisis, care for these people having issues by increasing our preventative care programs, and finally, to start catching these red flags sooner? That is where I think we will find logical solutions.

 

[CodeRedR51]

snowflakes

I really wish people would stop using that word.

 

[McLaren]

Going quite off topic here but how many people other than a handful really can make a full career (a good wage) out of being a YouTuber? The notion that some people are angry that a free video website isn't giving them money, especially when they are not making a huge effort in the content they are producing, highlights a new low of entitlement in society today imo.

My understanding was that originally, she was getting paid but the new algorithms and rules demonetized her.

Not that that provides justification; it’s a huge controversial topic with a lot of big YouTubers right now.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Going quite off topic here but how many people other than a handful really can make a full career (a good wage) out of being a YouTuber?

The percentage probably isn't too far removed from those kids that grow up wanting to be professional athletes.

I really wish people would stop using that word.

The irony of course is that the people that throw it out there so eagerly tend to be the first to complain about any generalizations that happen to them.

My understanding was that originally, she was getting paid but the new algorithms and rules demonetized her.

Not that that provides justification; it’s a huge controversial topic with a lot of big YouTubers right now.

Is it? I feel like the people making the biggest stink about it are those on the cusp, or those that get "cut off" with the new algorithms.

Personally, I don't get what the big deal is. YouTube is a business after all, and the stats show that the vast majority of people that were getting money off the old scheme were making a tiny amount over the course of a year:

“99 percent of those affected were making less than $100 per year in the last year, with 90 percent earning less than $2.50 in the last month,”

If YouTube is someone's primary source of income, either a) they're already making quite a lot, and the new setup doesn't affect them, or b) they were making so much less than the lowest of minimum wages in the country that they're being almost willfully irresponsible.

As I find it to often be the case, I side with Phil DeFranco on this: the key is diversifying.

 

[DDastardly00]

I know next to nothing about youtube's Monetization scheme so I find all of this interesting. If she was one of the people making less than $100 annually then it's hard to imagine why she would go to the lengths she did. There has to be something more to her story than this.

 

[McLaren]

Is it? I feel like the people making the biggest stink about it are those on the cusp, or those that get "cut off" with the new algorithms.

Personally, I don't get what the big deal is. YouTube is a business after all, and the stats show that the vast majority of people that were getting money off the old scheme were making a tiny amount over the course of a year:

If YouTube is someone's primary source of income, either a) they're already making quite a lot, and the new setup doesn't affect them, or b) they were making so much less than the lowest of minimum wages in the country that they're being almost willfully irresponsible.

As I find it to often be the case, I side with Phil DeFranco on this: the key is diversifying.

Not sure it’s so black and white. Harris opened up a Patreon years ago bc the cost of production was so high vs what the channel brought in.

Other channels I watch also stated that the new algorithms did cut significant chunks of money from them. The problem with most though is that they’re being unfairly demonetized for nothing that really breaks the rules. The issue many have pointed out that is the system seems to be far from perfect and people with large channels have to appeal tons and tons of videos to get monetized again. The lack of YouTube’s support doesn’t help for much of them. But that’s another topic.

 

[Robin]

I really wish people would stop using that word.

It's pretty ubiquitous here, used in the press and the media daily. Don't think I've gone a day in the last few years where I haven't heard it. Personally I'm not bothered at terms like that being laid on my generation.

The percentage probably isn't too far removed from those kids that grow up wanting to be professional athletes.

Thankfully they don't go and shoot up somewhere when it doesn't pan out.

It just sounds like mental illness to me. She's dead now though so I guess we'll never know for sure although we may suspect heavily. I don't think your typical complainant would go this far.

Of course no one of sane mind would go this far, it's just disappointing though that this reason may have lead to the initial grievance with them.

 

[UKMikey]

It's pretty ubiquitous here, used in the press and the media daily.

Or a particular subset thereof.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Not sure it’s so black and white. Harris opened up a Patreon years ago bc the cost of production was so high vs what the channel brought in.

Other channels I watch also stated that the new algorithms did cut significant chunks of money from them. The problem with most though is that they’re being unfairly demonetized for nothing that really breaks the rules. The issue many have pointed out that is the system seems to be far from perfect and people with large channels have to appeal tons and tons of videos to get monetized again. The lack of YouTube’s support doesn’t help for much of them. But that’s another topic.

Oh yeah, the algorithms are a whole other, much more valid issue IMO. But probably best saved for another thread, agreed.

Thankfully they don't go and shoot up somewhere when it doesn't pan out.

Neither do those that want to be "YouTube famous", unless you really want to pretend this situation applies to an entire group of people.

 

[Lain]

Going quite off topic here but how many people other than a handful really can make a full career (a good wage) out of being a YouTuber? The notion that some people are angry that a free video website isn't giving them money, especially when they are not making a huge effort in the content they are producing, highlights a new low of entitlement in society today imo.

Well, I mean... if a former community college professor can garner more than enough Patreon support to quit his job and do videos on a card game full-time, I'd say just about anything could happen.

It's not wrong or entitled about wanting compensation if your videos are getting views... YouTube is a website that grew and thrives off the content of others, after all. YouTube owes the content producers everything, and the free platform isn't adequate compensation when YT's raking in huge amounts of ad revenue off of other people's work. And there's definitely content on YouTube that people put huge effort (not to mention money) into... your assertion otherwise is patently false.

And guess what? That's exactly why, under normal circumstances, YouTube DOES provide compensation. That's not the issue here... the issue is YouTube's automated algorithm that can decide your video isn't ad-friendly and thus unmonetizable, which is highly prone to false positives. I can't speak to whether the shooter's videos warranted flagging or not, but I've definitely seen plenty cut-and-dry examples of videos being falsely flagged as not ad-friendly. You can appeal the decision, but while you wait for a human to look at it, your video's getting the bulk of its views while not earning you one measly cent... and there's no guarantee that the human will take a good look at your video, or just be lazy and play it safe by ruling in favor of the algorithm's judgment (since no doubt there will be a lot of appeal cases on videos that did warrant being flagged).

 

[Robin]

And there's definitely content on YouTube that people put huge effort (not to mention money) into... your assertion otherwise is patently false.

I'm talking about in the case of this woman, not all YouTubers in general.

 

[Lain]

In the case of this woman, not all YouTubers in general.

Perhaps not. I can't judge too harshly since I haven't watched them, but based on the thumbnails they do seem relatively low effort.

But in your post you said "they are not making a huge effort", with the "they" appearing to refer to "some people", which I took to mean anybody complaining about their videos getting demonetized by YT's algorithm.

 

[Robin]

Perhaps not. I can't judge too harshly since I haven't watched them, but based on the thumbnails they do seem relatively low effort.

But in your post you said "they are not making a huge effort", with the "they" appearing to refer to "some people", which I took to mean anybody complaining about their videos getting demonetized by YT's algorithm.

I think you misinterpreted what I said in that sentence. I thought it was obvious I was referring to 'people' like this woman as this is a discussion about this incident not YouTube in general.

The notion that some people (like this women) are angry that a free video website isn't giving them money, especially when they (people like this woman) are not making a huge effort in the content they (like this women) are producing, highlights a new low of entitlement in society today imo.

 

[Lain]

That doesn't really change anything, except beg the question of what you mean by "people like this woman" and how they differ from other people who might get demonetized and be justifiably miffed (as opposed to being "entitled") about it for the reasons I brought up in my original response to that post.

And since you said "especially when they are not making a huge effort in the content they are producing", it can be inferred that you think that the quality of the content can hurt these people's case but isn't the deciding factor that makes them entitled when complaining about their videos being demonetized.

 

[Mr Tree]

I am sorry, did you have an actual solution in all of that banter? One that is realistic? I must have missed it. You conveniently ignored the 300 million firearms statistic and the 40-50 year projection to get them off the street. And all of that is only if our Constitution was magically altered overnight and Firearm manufactures worldwide suddenly have a Kumbaya moment and decided to close up shop and go into the floral industry instead.

When you have a cultural problem, as you alluded to earlier, and you don't address it then bad things will continue to happen. When you don't enforce the laws you have, then bad things are going to happen. When you have a surveillance society but the Surveyors are not doing their jobs effectively, then what is the point? We have the means to solve this problem already, the Gunz R Bad MMkay folks are distracting from the real issue and that is 'Why' these people are committing these acts of violence and how it can be prevented in the future. How can we close the legal loopholes that allow these people back on the streets instead of being committed? Our jails/prisons/correctional facilities are were never intended to be Mental institutions, yet that is how they are being used. They can't hold these people very long unless they have been convicted of an actual crime, so they get let back on the street. But the biggest one is, how can we effectively manage our mental heath care crisis, care for these people having issues by increasing our preventative care programs, and finally, to start catching these red flags sooner? That is where I think we will find logical solutions.

We changed them 'overnight' (apparently that's what people call weeks of debate before something changed now).

Ane yes 40-50years you better start now then don't you! If you have an idea that unique in the world and would help please present it, if jot wouldn't it be smarter to start doing what seems to work in the rest of the world?

Again start now at least that way 2generations from you things will be better. Again a solution is only realistic if it works overnight?

All the USA and it's citisens are doing now is beeing complicit to a system that costs lives of children who shouldn't even have seen a gun from up close.

But hey call cultural diffrences and block the conversation...
If you guys only came up with other ideas better ideas perhaps but you don't just just call foul because the culture and accept people beeing killed.

See I wouldn't mind the cultural diffrence argument if you guys actually came with ideas, at the moment all it's used for is to don't have to have the guns conversation....

Or at least that's how a lot of europeans see it.

 

[Danoff]

All the USA and it's citisens are doing now is beeing complicit to a system that costs lives of children who shouldn't even have seen a gun from up close.

Explain exactly what part of the "system" you think costs the lives of children.

 

[DDastardly00]

We changed them 'overnight' (apparently that's what people call weeks of debate before something changed now).

Ane yes 40-50years you better start now then don't you! If you have an idea that unique in the world and would help please present it, if jot wouldn't it be smarter to start doing what seems to work in the rest of the world?

Again start now at least that way 2generations from you things will be better. Again a solution is only realistic if it works overnight?

All the USA and it's citisens are doing now is beeing complicit to a system that costs lives of children who shouldn't even have seen a gun from up close.

But hey call cultural diffrences and block the conversation...
If you guys only came up with other ideas better ideas perhaps but you don't just just call foul because the culture and accept people beeing killed.

See I wouldn't mind the cultural diffrence argument if you guys actually came with ideas, at the moment all it's used for is to don't have to have the guns conversation....

Or at least that's how a lot of europeans see it.

I wouldn't expect any solution to come overnight, that just isn't realistic but waiting 50 years isn't realistic either. In the end a firearm is a tool, if you ban that tool and do not fix the cultural problem, do you think that problem just magically goes away? No it doesn't, and mentally disturbed people will find another way to harm people, they'll just use a vehicle to mow people down, make a bomb, or use some other means to their end. Eliminating some firearms, or restricting access would probably have a short term affect but it would be very minimal (at best) and just isn't a valid long term solution and lastly, it most certainly doesn't address the root of the cultural problem that is causing it.

Go and read some statistics on the mental health crisis in the Untied States, that numbers are quite literally...startling

 

[Northstar]

wouldn't it be smarter to start doing what seems to work in the rest of the world?

If the world all used the same gun control laws, yes. However they don't and each country has laws best suited for them. I will say that our neighbors to the north would be a good starting point.

Again start now at least that way 2generations from you things will be better. Again a solution is only realistic if it works overnight?

Would it be better? In order to completely remove guns from society you would obviously have to stop production and collect all the existing ones. Now people will probably be difficult and not willingly hand them over, so they will have to either search every house and car individually or get people to turn their neighbors in. At that point you would probably have far more than just the pro-gun crowd up in arms (pun not intended), that's of course if the ACLU didn't take it to the supreme court 10 seconds after it passed (which they would).

There would also be a massive tax bill to go along with such an initiative not to mention the hit some local economies would take with the lost of hunting revenue.

at the moment all it's used for is to don't have to have the guns conversation....

Both sides do a ridiculous amount of diverting so don't even try and put all the blame on the pro-gun side. The lack of coverage when it comes to mental health issues is sickening. The war on drugs obviously isn't working. And for some reason the fact that that a warning can go unheard because someone was on vacation was an issue for all of 15 minutes before everyone moved on is just baffling. People should be up in arms and protesting in the streets over those three things as mental health, gang crime and lack of accountability in public officials are the major issues, but nobody on either side, including you, ever seems to want to address them. Take care of those and gun violence will go down without any changes to gun control laws.

 

[TexRex]

Indeed, mental illness needs to be addressed...

*cough*

 

[Mr Tree]

I wouldn't expect any solution to come overnight, that just isn't realistic but waiting 50 years isn't realistic either. In the end a firearm is a tool, if you ban that tool and do not fix the cultural problem, do you think that problem just magically goes away? No it doesn't, and mentally disturbed people will find another way to harm people, they'll just use a vehicle to mow people down, make a bomb, or use some other means to their end. Eliminating some firearms, or restricting access would probably have a short term affect but it would be very minimal (at best) and just isn't a valid long term solution and lastly, it most certainly doesn't address the root of the cultural problem that is causing it.

Go and read some statistics on the mental health crisis in the Untied States, that numbers are quite literally...startling

Then why does it work for other countries that also had gun/huntingcultures? Stop thinking the usa is so special...

It works everywhere but no for the isa it won't work.... Seriously you need to feel so special?

The talk about other tools,...
This one is just stupid. People don't just make bombs and bombs can't be just bought... Use a car? Well if you use a gun you can make more casualties....
Also those don't seem to happen a lot in the countries that took measures against guns...

Mental health is NOT an american issue, suicides are the biggest killer of people under 50 in belgium after traffic deaths.
This is awefull but no mental health is not an american problem. And @Northstar I do speak about that I hadn't mentioned it in this gun debate no. But I have big issues with this mental health crisis. I've lost 4 friends to suicide before I was 22years old. So want to have a mental health talk my friends didt kill no one but themselfs and didn't use a gun the lenghts they had to go through are uncomprehinsible and I hate my government for not even addressing this issue as it really does hit close to home and is a major killer in out society. Our cultures do have issues too. Also I don't call for a total ban! We also don't have a total ban...
And no the regulations aren't exactly the same... That's why I talk aboyt a general guncontrol you american fill in how thay should work for you, apperently not to much that where I don't seem to get it...

@Danoff the part that makes your country has schoolshootings on a way more regular basis then the rest of the world. Lovely culture you have there

 

[Obelisk]

Mental health is NOT an american issue,

Don't be unwise.

It certainly is an underlying issue. I'm going to have to ask you to back this up with proper sources (not articles on the web, but actual studies) that explicitly show a lack of correlation between these incidents.

Youtube shooting - Mentally unstable individual
Parkland shooting - Mentally unstable person with documented problems.
Sandy Hook - Mentally unstable person

Just to point out a few incidents where mental health was an underlying issue.

I don't suppose you believe depression is solved by saying "Hey, just cheer up!"?

 

[Northstar]

Then why does it work for other countries that also had gun/huntingcultures? Stop thinking the usa is so special...

The fact we have so many guns we don't even know exist makes us special and requires different laws.

The talk about other tools,...
This one is just stupid. People don't just make bombs and bombs can't be just bought... .

You more than likely have all the ingredients to make either a bomb or a chemical weapon in your house right now. And if not, a trip to the hardware or department store will remedy that. You don't need to be a genius to make one either, a simple internet search will do.

Use a car? Well if you use a gun you can make more casualties...

So there is an allowable amount of deaths caused by psychopaths?

Also those don't seem to happen a lot in the countries that took measures against guns...

Could it be because there just aren't that many people in Europe wanting to kill scores of people?

Nah, it's obviously the gun thing.

Mental health is NOT an american issue, suicides are the biggest killer of people under 50 in belgium after traffic deaths.
This is awefull but no mental health is not an american problem.

Guessing you forgot to put an "only" or a "just" in there?

Just because the U.S. isn't the only country with the issue doesn't mean it's not an issue.

the part that makes your country has schoolshootings on a way more regular basis then the rest of the world. Lovely culture you have there

That doesn't really address his question, in fact you hardly answered mine either. Let me break it down to make it harder for you to divert from my points.

Would it be better? In order to completely remove guns from society you would obviously have to stop production and collect all the existing ones. Now people will probably be difficult and not willingly hand them over, so they will have to either search every house and car individually or get people to turn their neighbors in. At that point you would probably have far more than just the pro-gun crowd up in arms (pun not intended), that's of course if the ACLU didn't take it to the supreme court 10 seconds after it passed (which they would).

So, even if we don't do a complete gun ban, we are going to still have to collect a crap ton of weapons we don't even know exist. How are we to go about doing that without violating the civil rights of everyone?

There would also be a massive tax bill to go along with such an initiative not to mention the hit some local economies would take with the lost of hunting revenue.

How will we pay for it?

Both sides do a ridiculous amount of diverting so don't even try and put all the blame on the pro-gun side. The lack of coverage when it comes to mental health issues is sickening. The war on drugs obviously isn't working. And for some reason the fact that that a warning can go unheard because someone was on vacation was an issue for all of 15 minutes before everyone moved on is just baffling. People should be up in arms and protesting in the streets over those three things as mental health, gang crime and lack of accountability in public officials are the major issues, but nobody on either side, including you, ever seems to want to address them. Take care of those and gun violence will go down without any changes to gun control laws.

What should we do about our bad mental health care system?
What should happen to the war on drugs?
What should we do to address gang crime?
What steps need to be taken to ensure that if there is a warning someone will pick up the phone even if the recipient is on vacation?

I look forward to you ignoring 99% of my post again so you can only focus on guns.