Shooting inside Colorado movie theater during Batman premier

Tired Tyres
Or a massively increased death toll as a bunch of untrained scared people fire bullets in every conceivable direction in panic.

Your comment reminds me of claims by gun fans that if people had been allowed to carry guns on aircraft then 9/11 wouldn't have happened. Idiots would have blown holes in the planes and brought them down anyway.
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Not really similar, no. Incidentally, would it have been better on 9/11 to bring down a plane of people or let it smash into buildings with ten times as many people inside? The guys who brought down their own plane proved the former...


I wonder how ballsy a lone shooter feels when there's return fire from 40 people, compared to none. I wonder how confident he'll be of his plan beforehand if he knows he's not shooting at unarmed targets...

Of course this will be seized upon by the usual ghouls to show that guns are bad and should be criminalised, without at any point realising that the guy killing people was a criminal (who cares about breaking a law about owning guns when you're murdering?) or that one more gun would have been much, much better.
 
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MÜLE_9242;7370254
There was a shooting in Toronto just this Monday, and the one guy did fire back, and so far, I believe he's the only one who's been charged with anything ("reckless discharge" or something like that). I'd focus on trying to eliminate the black market first, as hard as that would be.
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I am not familiar with Canadian statutes, but I can't imagine any judge or jury would convict a law-abiding citizen of trying to help in a situation where the lives of others were in imminent danger.


EDIT - looked up an article about the Toronto shooting.

http://news.yahoo.com/two-killed-19-injured-toronto-shooting-071601831.html

Looks like the police think it was suspected gang activity. To me, this suggests the person shooting back might not have been carrying a firearm legally. So, in this case, he's more likely to be person 2 than person 1.
 
MustangRyan
I am not familiar with Canadian statutes, but I can't imagine any judge or jury would convict a law-abiding citizen of trying to help in a situation where the lives of others were in imminent danger.


EDIT - looked up an article about the Toronto shooting.

http://news.yahoo.com/two-killed-19-injured-toronto-shooting-071601831.html

Looks like the police think it was suspected gang activity. To me, this suggests the person shooting back might not have been carrying a firearm legally. So, in this case, he's more likely to be person 2 than person 1.
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Pretty much, yeah.

Blitz24
Didn't mention that in the first post :rolleyes:. I wouldn't have said my statement if I didn't know the full story.
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No need to get snarky, really.
 
Famine
It'd sure have been a shorter spree if the rest of the mass had guns - and a longer one if the only firearms in the place were his illegally obtained ones.
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Considering most people who conceal carry don't actually know how to properly engage a target in a crowded situation. No. Wouldn't make a difference.

Just an FYI, you are trained in law enforcement to draw fire and move AWAY from people, most normal people have no clue of this, and would just fire from their position, with lots of unarmed, unprotected individuals surrounding them.

Meaning, the shooter is automatically going to target the person returning fire, in a crowd, it becomes difficult to spot a single target, which means he would simply return fire in that general direction, added to the fact that it's a dark environment with a loud movie playing. This actually applies in both directions.

Please stop spreading the myth around that conceal carry means safety in active shooter scenarios, it simply doesn't. Only a properly trained shooter can reduce risk in such a situation.
 
-Cheezman-
Please stop spreading the myth around that conceal carry means safety in active shooter scenarios
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Who said anything about concealed carry?

Even then, the notion that concealed carry means safety at no point requires firearm discharge...

You're a gunman and you want to kill a crowd of people. Which crowd do you pick? The crowd without any guns at all or the crowd where some people might have firearms (assuming you're not dumb enough to pick a crowd with openly carried firearms)?

It's a passive deterrent, not an active one. It stops the event in planning, rather than killing the guy in the middle of it.
 
To me this is more proof that America needs to get rid or change it of its "right to bear arms" law.

Their is a clear difference between having a basic gun to protect yourself and getting a full S.W.A.T gear setup going.

You can not get a Automatic weapon in Australia and getting a gun is hard and it shows as we never or rarely having shooting sprees by your average Joe Hancock.
 
Grayfox
To me this is more proof that America needs to get rid or change it of its "right to bear arms" law.

Their is a clear difference between having a basic gun to protect yourself and getting a full S.W.A.T gear setup going.

You can not get a Automatic weapon in Australia and getting a gun is hard and it shows as we never or rarely having shooting sprees by your average Joe Hancock.
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Australia also doesn't have powerful drug cartels to their south that create a huge black market for these things, nor do they have an obvious gang problem.
 
MustangRyan
The plane was going down, no matter what. To me, crashing it down in a field is better than flying it into a skyscraper, where several thousand more people were killed.

Also, to stereotype all legal conceal/carry owners as untrained is asinine. These are some of the most trained and educated private citizens you are going to find. The people carrying illegally are much more likely to be untrained with their weapons. But wait, that's why it's illegal for them to carry, right? :dunce:
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Your assuming that it would get brought down in a field. What's to say it wouldn't be a school? What then?

As for carrying guns. The Military understand that no matter how well you are trained nothing prepares you for action.

Civilians scared for their own lives and armed doesn't even bear thinking about.
 
We have issues with drug dealers and gangs.

But why would a drug cartel be after the average American?

Only reasons I can think of is.
1: you owe them money
2: you angered them(killing one of their higher up members)
3: you are in a rival drug gang.
 
Yeah, much better they can be scared for their own lives - and the life of their 9 month old baby - and unarmed.
 
Famine
Who said anything about concealed carry?

Even then, the notion that concealed carry means safety at no point requires firearm discharge...

You're a gunman and you want to kill a crowd of people. Which crowd do you pick? The crowd without any guns at all or the crowd where some people might have firearms (assuming you're not dumb enough to pick a crowd with openly carried firearms)?

It's a passive deterrent, not an active one. It stops the event in planning, rather than killing the guy in the middle of it.
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What individual is going to assume by default a movie theater is going to be filled with a bunch of armed citizens? None.

Regardless of that, he was wearing body armor, a gasmask, and used gas; He was PREPARED for a fight. So, the facts simply negate your entire argument in this case. He planned to subdue any potential threats with gas before he ever even fired a shot. Now add an insufficiently trained individual trying to return fire in such a situation.
 
Grayfox
We have issues with drug dealers and gangs.

But why would a drug cartel be after the average American?

Only reasons I can think of is.
1: you owe them money
2: you angered them(killing one of their higher up members)
3: you are in a rival drug gang.
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Gangs steal guns and sell them. They don't care if you have a permit or not. Any idiot who has enough money can buy a gun if he wants one and knows where to look.
 
-Cheezman-
What individual is going to assume by default a movie theater is going to be filled with a bunch of armed citizens? None.

Regardless of that, he was wearing body armor, a gasmask, and used gas; He was PREPARED for a fight. So, the facts simply negate your entire argument in this case.
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Not really, for two reasons.

Firstly, a deterrent is only a deterrent, not a prevention - you cannot ever account for (nor legislate for) the actions of a lunatic. But secondly, we have no information on what actually happened here. In a packed theatre for the premiere of a blockbuster film, a gunman should have killed just about everyone there, not twelve people... something stopped him. Or he was insufficiently trained.

Of course Denver has its own local statutes about concealed carry, rather than Colorado's state laws.

-Cheezman-
He planned to subdue any potential threats with gas before he ever even fired a shot. Now add an insufficiently trained individual trying to return fire in such a situation.
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Now add a sufficiently trained individual.

Concealed carry is a deterrent (even though I never mentioned it) - anyone with two braincells to rub together can see that when faced with a gunman, it only takes one more to stop him and if the gunman is the one with the two braincells he is deterred. It should also be readily apparent that a completely disarmed populace is completely at the mercy of the same gunman.
 
Like I said the laws need to change.

Make the penalties for having unlicensed guns much more harsh.
 
Hear that on news this morning. This horrorful story seems to happen almost every week or so.

They mentioned a three months old was injured. What the hell a 3 months old baby was doing at midnight in a cinema?? My son is 7 and i would'nt take hin watching dark night at midnight.

Do they still have the good old electric chair in Colorado or is it injection? I can plug the chair if ask.
 
Odeon have announced that people and bags will be searched on the way into their cinemas, as a precaution. I wondered how long it would take...
 
themartlab
They mentioned a three months old was injured. What the hell a 3 months old baby was doing at midnight in a cinema??
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I was thinking the same thing. Whenever people bring young children like that, if they are making too much noise through the whole movie I always ask for a refund. 👎

Sad to hear this happened. Glad that none of my friends that live in that are were there. :nervous:
 
I'm guessing this guy WAS in the army. I am also guessing that he probably had relationship issues (like an ex-girlfriend going out with another person), so maybe he had either tried to kill the girlfriend or the other person. What witnesses say was that the psycho had pointed the gun at one particular person before he killed those 14 people.
 
mattythedog
Odeon have announced that people and bags will be searched on the way into their cinemas, as a precaution. I wondered how long it would take...
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And even with this, what a unarmed cinema security guard will do if a crazy guy with weapons comes in?
 
themartlab
They mentioned a three months old was injured. What the hell a 3 months old baby was doing at midnight in a cinema?? My son is 7 and i would'nt take hin watching dark night at midnight.
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I have to say, I don't think either this or the predictable gun control responses are... appropriate just yet.

Besides, some of the shots went through into an adjacent theatre - they might have been there watching Ice Age 4 because the baby wouldn't sleep?
 
Famine
Besides, some of the shots went through into an adjacent theatre - they might have been there watching Ice Age 4 because the baby wouldn't sleep?
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I consider this far more likely. Although this is horrible, I find it very unlikely that a baby would survive a direct gunshot wound. It would be far likely that it was a indirect damage by the gunner.
 
Famine
I have to say, I don't think either this or the predictable gun control responses are... appropriate just yet.

Besides, some of the shots went through into an adjacent theatre - they might have been there watching Ice Age 4 because the baby wouldn't sleep?
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That's a good point, however not every parent has common sense. I went to see "Jackass 3D" with my brother in law, there was a couple in there with an infant. I know it's tough to find a baby sitter, my wife and I would pick movies and take turns watching our son at the house while the other went to the movie.
 
Ok, I have to say this.

Go See This Movie!

I'd like to see a national protest against this kind of thing where we all go see Batman because this jerk tried to get us not to see it. I'm sick of people trying to bully us around like a bunch of scared sheep. I bet people stay home this weekend as a result of this nonsense, and that's exactly what future nutjobs will be influenced by.

I'm moving to Colorado next week, this event actually makes me want to go to the theater.
 

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