Should the US return to the Gold Standard?

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Oh brother.

Shouldn't surprise you.

 

[Keef]

Dapper is knocking gold because he's got his money invested in coal.

 

[Dapper]

Oh brother.

http://www.genome.gov/images/content/cost_per_megabase.jpg

Your intuition is linear.

Real car prices
The price of cars hasn't changed much in 20-30 years, basically no change in price since '85, yet cars now are much safer, get much better fuel mileage, get waayyy more power... The dollar now buys more car than in the past.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

And still no reason why we left the gold standard.

The reason was so the government could print money at their will.

If we mined gold.
No gold, no growth.

No, because the market value of final goods and services produced does not depend entirely on gold mining.

 

[Dapper]

No, because the market value of final goods and services produced does not depend entirely on gold mining.

Market value is dependent on supply/demand...
If no new gold is found, no new demands will happen. ECON101

If you came up with a new service, there would be no money to use it unless there was new gold to fund your new service.

 

[arora]

Here is the part where Dapper starts to loose me and the convo starts looking like the one about Libya(and wasn't that one fun).

 

[Dapper]

Here is the part where Dapper starts to lose me and the convo starts looking like the one about Libya(and wasn't that one fun).

I gave 23 objective examples to your none. It does sound like the Libya convo.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Market value is dependent on supply/demand...
If no new gold is found, no new demands will happen. ECON101

People start spending more and saving less. Poof...new demand

 

[Dapper]

People start spending more and saving less. Poof...new demand

And how long will that sustain? You are talking about a one time transaction, not indefinite, sustained growth.
Have your dunce cap back.

 

[arora]

I gave 23 objective examples to your none. It does sound like the Libya convo.

I didn't realize I needed to, what, post some links to stoned ponies? Is there a particular claim I have made that requires statistical proof for you?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

As long as productivity increases and people keep working

 

[Dapper]

I didn't realize I needed to, what, post some links to stoned ponies? Is there a particular claim I have made that requires statistical proof for you?

If I lost you, show me why, or at least explain. Cars, information transfer and the genome project are just really easy, tangible examples of the dollar strengthening. Saying the dollar is getting weaker is not very tangible.

As long as productivity increases and people keep working

This is getting redundant... The money spent from one person's savings will not spawn new industries, it won't even be enough to raise productivity (several thousands or millions of people agreeing to do this concurrently is a different story though, or letting a bank do it on your behalf is even better). But let's say it did. Well, the prospective customers have no money in savings to buy the new service (or whatever), they just spent all their spending money and savings money remember.

When money is attached to something material, more material is needed for more money.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

several thousands or millions of people agreeing to do this concurrently is a different story though

That was the idea.

 

[arora]

If I said the dollar is getting weaker, don't think I did, but if I did, the reason would most likely be found by comparing it to other currencies. As for your examples, meh, how much did the first computer cost? You skip variables to make arbitrary points.

As usual I'll cut to the chase, I already know your agenda based on several convo's with you. Each time I have laid it out, you have never objected nor clarified. You follow some sort of well thought out socialist idiology that has been around since circa 1900 Germany in my eyes(I've even quoted writings from those times, as well as Marx, you never deny it, but why would you, or how could you even)
If you would like I, could dig out some of those relics tomorrow. I know this is a tired excuse but I am on a ps3 with pad atm, surprised I've spent this much time already.

 

[Dapper]

That was the idea.

A hasty use of (), my bad.

A bank loaning it's customer's money is not the same as a person spending their savings. Even my scenario is pretty wrong, if everyone spent their savings to innovate something, there would be no money for them to buy the innovation unless more gold was mined. Supply side never works.

How to create demand? Create wealth. If a country only considers Gold wealth, they need more of it to grow. If a country considers technology wealth, they better start making technology (luckily the US is and that's why our GDP is really growing).

As for your examples, meh, how much did the first computer cost? You skip variables to make arbitrary points.

The first computer is no where near the middle of any industry I listed!
Information transfer started around ~380,000 years after the big bang, when the universe was an expanding puddle goo and the first atoms were made. I just pointed out the growth from books to smart phones. If you'd like, I can make the jump from atoms to nano bots.

My mom did buy my grandfather a computer in the late 80's or early 90's for $3000 and nothing else fit on the desk.

Here is the first programmable comp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Z3_Deutsches_Museum.JPG

 

[Dennisch]

If you'd like, I can make the jump from atoms to nano bots if you want.

Do we need tinfoil hats?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

A bank loaning it's customer's money is not the same as a person spending their savings. Even my scenario is pretty wrong, if everyone spent their savings to innovate something, there would be no money for them to buy the innovation unless more gold was mined. Supply side never works.

That depends on where their savings go to. The people with the more desirable innovations would be holding the money, since more people would be willing to buy it. Well if they exported the product or whatever innovation, in theory they could trade it for gold. Though I see how fixing a currency just on gold can be bad.

 

[arora]

LOL, I have a few for varying ocasions.

So the dollars value is based solely on information? If I had all the info in the world I'd be a very rich man, fact, but what if I freely gave all that info away?

 

[Dapper]

So the dollars value is based solely on information?

No. Like cars, or the genome project, information transfer (NOT information) is a tangible example of the dollar buying more.

Technology is almost always anti inflationary.
An entire Encyclopedia Britannica set will contain LESS information and cost MORE than what fits in my pocket.

 

[arora]

So there goes your utopian dream? I mean to say, someone is entitled to own property in the form of information.

EDIT And the value is exchanged with a dollar backed by a determined price of one mans worth?

 

[Dapper]

So there goes your utopian dream? I mean to say, someone is entitled to own property in the form of information.

I'm not sure what your getting at, I know it has nothing to do with the dollar buying more or information transfer exponentially decreasing in cost and time.

I am of the same mind as Benjamin Franklin.

And the value is exchanged with a dollar backed by a determined price of one mans worth?

The dollar in my pocket is backed by the US Govt, who commands ~20% of the world's GDP.

 

[arora]

You need to be more speficic, how am I going to find whatever Franklin thought you agree with pertaining to your point?

 

[Dapper]

You need to be more speficic, how am I going to find whatever Franklin thought you agree with pertaining to your point?

I fixed the link. I liked him in general, though. We were close.

...as we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously.

*waits for ostracizing, utopian remarks* lol

 

[arora]

The dollar in my pocket is backed by the US Govt, who commands ~20% of the world's GDP.

Hmmmm, so not by gold, not by men creating Watson, but by the fed?

''*waits for ostracizing remarks*''

Wrong, I agree with the quote, the link still only takes me to the top of the article, prolly on my end.

 

[Dapper]

Hmmmm, so not by gold, not by men creating Watson, but by the fed?

really? The US Government is a representation of the men and woman who created Watson. One in the same.

 

[arora]

OK, well placing a monitary value on one man, or many is hainus to me, and to think a few buricrats take the credit for my worth? No thanks.

 

[Dapper]

OK, well placing a monitary value on one man, or many is hainus to me, and to think a few buricrats take the credit for my worth? No thanks.

Dude, take 10 minutes and listen to a hedge fund analyst with 3 degrees from MIT and one from Harvard explain away your worries.


If 10 min is toooo long, just listen to his plane analogy at around 8min in, but I suggest the full 10min. He says "Would you rather have money backed by gold or the US govt?" then he explains, from an insiders POV, what happens on a global scale in simple terms.

 

[arora]

Sure, I'm not arsed atm, don't get me wrong as I'm paying you mind, but we have a fundimental difference that transcends stuffy economists and puffy polititions lol.

Keep searching I supose, I'll keep thinking a man's life is his own, not violating anothers rights he should surpass govs and banks alike. I'll check in later.

 

[Dapper]

12 signs of a critical thinker-
(1) Be capable of taking a position or changing a position as evidence dictates
(2) Remain relevant to the point
(3) Seek information as well as precision in information
(4) Be open minded
(5) Take the entire situation into account
(6) Keep the original problem in mind
(7) Search for reasons
(8) Deal with the components of a complex problem in an orderly manner
(9) Seek a clear statement of the problem
(10) Look for options
(11) Exhibit sensitivity to others’ feelings and depth of knowledge
(12) Use credible sources

edit- @arora- You would land on the island with gold?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The irony is killing me.