Should the US return to the Gold Standard?

[arora]

Oh, a pointless dig, I got an open mind, you're welcome inside haha

While you believe in intervention, regulation, etc, I believe in respect and integrity etc, we are both dreaming I'm afraid ;-)

 

[Dapper]

The irony is killing me.

This is almost offensive.

@arora- no dig. Just pointing out taking Khan's financial advice wouldn't demean you in any way. In fact, quite the opposite.

 

[Luminis]

The value of a dollar is exceptional.

Except that it has been going down quite a bit. To the point that several governments are considering to drop it as a reserve currency.

Exceptional, yeah. Whatever.

I am privy to all the information in the world all of the time for maybe $100 initially and $50/month. $50 use to buy one encyclopedia.

You must be delusional. I can guarantee you that neither you nor anyone is privy to all the information in the world.

Anyways, on the growth thing, this might be better at explaining my line of thought than I am myself (quoted from Wikipedia):

A 100%-reserve gold standard, or a full gold standard, exists when a monetary authority holds sufficient gold to convert all of the representative money it has issued into gold at the promised exchange rate. It is sometimes referred to as the gold specie standard to more easily identify it from other forms of the gold standard that have existed at various times. Opponents of a 100%-reserve standard consider a 100%-reserve standard difficult to implement, saying that the quantity of gold in the world is too small to sustain current worldwide economic activity at current gold prices; implementation would entail a many-fold increase in the price of gold.[citation needed] However, proponents of the gold standard have said that any amount of gold can serve as the reserve: "Once a money is established, any stock of money becomes compatible with any amount of employment and real income."[39] According to them the prices of goods and services will adjust to the supply of gold.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

This is almost offensive.

That's good because I truly believe that post is a bit ironic.

Let's see

(1) Be capable of taking a position or changing a position as evidence dictates

I read a lot of the threads in this section. There were many times when you were presented with evidence against your position, but completely disregarded it. I hope you can see my position a bit more clearly now.

Luckily for everyone, Sternberg, Ennis, and Lipman state that critical thinking skills can learned. So most people should be able to improve their skills.

 

[Luminis]

Oh, one more thing regarding the "fixed amount of gold makes growth impossible" mindset, this time from econlib.com:

Because exchange rates were fixed, the gold standard caused price levels around the world to move together. This comovement occurred mainly through an automatic balance-of-payments adjustment process called the price-specie-flow mechanism. Here is how the mechanism worked. Suppose that a technological innovation brought about faster real economic growth in the United States. Because the supply of money (gold) essentially was fixed in the short run, U.S. prices fell. Prices of U.S. exports then fell relative to the prices of imports. This caused the British to demand more U.S. exports and Americans to demand fewer imports. A U.S. balance-of-payments surplus was created, causing gold (specie) to flow from the United Kingdom to the United States. The gold inflow increased the U.S. money supply, reversing the initial fall in prices. In the United Kingdom, the gold outflow reduced the money supply and, hence, lowered the price level. The net result was balanced prices among countries.

 

[Dapper]

Except that it has been going down quite a bit. To the point that several governments are considering to drop it as a reserve currency.

Exceptional, yeah. Whatever.

You must be delusional. I can guarantee you that neither you nor anyone is privy to all the information in the world.

Anyways, on the growth thing, this might be better at explaining my line of thought than I am myself (quoted from Wikipedia):

First, Have you ever spoke to Siri?
Second, your citation is derived from a quote from the book The Economics of the Civil War. If you choose to use archaic, slave driver logic, feel free.

The econolib quote- "This caused the British to demand more U.S. exports and Americans to demand fewer imports." That is NO GROWTH! It says the US gets an innovation for less imports and giving up more exports. Are you 🤬 kidding me?!

I read a lot of the threads in this section. There were many times when you were presented with evidence against your position, but completely disregarded it. I hope you can see my position a bit more clearly now.

You are wrong. That is what you have been doing!
I must be in bizarro world.

 

[Luminis]

First, Have you ever spoke to Siri?
Second, your citation is derived from a quote from the book The Economics of the Civil War. If you choose to use archaic, slave driver logic, feel free.

So, that's your argument? I mean, you've been presenting your own logic as some sort of fact and you seem to have little evidence that it holds more truth than any other theory on the matter. Be it archaic or otherwise.

Well, if that's what you are resorting to, fair enough.

 

[arora]

Indeed tup EDIT ffs, this was for lumins last quote on growth equaling countries with gb se'lling gold etc

There is a valid arguement ongoing though, that of a fixed pie, lets say I own 50% of that pie, it never actually grows but the population does of course. It's not cut and dry and that is the reason we discuss things like patent life and such. The debate over medication is especially intersting in regards to this.

I think with little consideration to one's growth model the real question becomes 'are you entitled to retain your wealth? and at what cost to humanity' there is a balence we seek(unless you are Dapper :-p)

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

You are wrong. That is what you have been doing!
I must be in bizarro world.

You are wrong.

Though I see how fixing a currency just on gold can be bad.

Right there I agreed with you. I'm still learning and reading about the advantages and disadvantages of the gold standard.

Even if I was doing that, it doesn't change the fact that you were. Remember there's room for improvement.

 

[Dapper]

So, that's your argument? I mean, you've been presenting your own logic as some sort of fact and you seem to have little evidence that it holds more truth than any other theory on the matter. Be it archaic or otherwise.

Well, if that's what you are resorting to, fair enough.

My argument is gold will never keep up with our growing economy. Go quote something else that defies your stance.

Right there I agreed with you.

How could you consider me a non-critical thinker if I may have helped you lean left, and learned something in the process?

 

[arora]

Still confusing growth with inflation? Or you mean to say 1000 years from now.

 

[Dapper]

Still confusing growth with inflation? Or you mean to say 1000 years from now.

Our economy is growing EXPONENTIALLY. Find exponential vats of gold and I'll join your side.


All the gold in the world is worth $10,100,000,000,000.
The US GDP is around $14,000,000,000,000.

I can't be the only one to read that!

 

[arora]

So, tomorrow I buy me a 80ft yacht, I deserve it and with all the exponential growth and such......

 

[Luminis]

Indeed tup EDIT ffs, this was for lumins last quote on growth equaling countries with gb se'lling gold etc

Er, what?

My argument is gold will never keep up with our growing economy.

As has been pointed out, there are theories that point out why increasing the gold supply isn't necessary to ensure growth.

But, for arguments sake: You could very well add various sorts of precious metals to the gold standard, such as silver, which has been done before. The whole point is to actually give something to the people, and that is the security that their money has value beyond what the fed wants it to be worth.

 

[arora]

I know, oops, the econlib bit, damn ps3. I should quit while I'm behind.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

How could you consider me a non-critical thinker if I may have helped you lean left, and learned something in the process?

You consistently dodge evidence from Famine, Danoff, Foolkiller, Omnis, etc.

If 10 min is toooo long, just listen to his plane analogy at around 8min in, but I suggest the full 10min. He says "Would you rather have money backed by gold or the US govt?" then he explains, from an insiders POV, what happens on a global scale in simple terms.

I watched the whole video. The anology actually pretty bad. Basically, he says if you land on an island of just gold, you have no wealth. You would think so considering that you have no one to trade it to. Now since that's not the case, I don't see the problem trusting gold over the government. I like Ron Paul's idea of making gold and silver legal tender in the US.

 

[Dapper]

You consistently dodge evidence from Famine, Danoff, Foolkiller, Omnis, etc.

Point me to where any of them say anything objective I disagree with.

The anology actually pretty bad. Basically, he says if you land on an island of just gold, you have no wealth. You would think so considering that you have no one to trade it to. Now since that's not the case, I don't see the problem trusting gold over the government. I like Ron Paul's idea of making gold and silver legal tender in the US.

Chinese are not stupid, like Khan, and they understand that America is more valuable than gold.

This point hasn't hit home on this forum.

I like Ron Paul's idea of making gold and silver legal tender in the US.

I'm not sure all the precious metals in the world even equal the US GDP. But that's just details.

As has been pointed out, there are theories that point out why increasing the gold supply isn't necessary to ensure growth.

Your econlib quote showed zero growth. It helps you just as much.

But, for arguments sake: You could very well add various sorts of precious metals to the gold standard...

Add to, novel idea. But-

I'm not sure all the precious metals in the world even equal the US GDP. But that's just details.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Point me to where any of them say anything objective I disagree with.

...Gold has no value! Gold does nothing. I have no use for gold, in fact, no one I know has a use for gold. Everyone (should) values, and has a use for what the United States of America can do, like Watson, for instance.

I'll assume you're merely posting to my mind using telepathy?

Only you're not using any electronic devices - and certainly not the internet - if gold does nothing.

Minutia. Play again.

Really... the gold in electronic devices gives gold it's monetary worth?

Disregarded evidence and twisted your claim

I'm not sure all the precious metals in the world even equal the US GDP. But that's just details.

That doesn't mean that they would be the only acceptable form.

 

[Dapper]

Disregarded evidence

I replied! That is the opposite of disregard.
Disregard def

We are discussing tonnes of gold, sums to fund entire nations, and he chimes in worrying about flakes! Weak troll attempt at best.

That doesn't mean that they would be the only acceptable form.

Paper money, quarters, nickels, dimes and pennies are the only currency backed by the US govt, that doesn't mean you can't buy, barter, trade with whatever the seller is willing to take.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I replied! That is the opposite of disregard.
Disregard def

minutia

to treat without due regard, respect, or attentiveness; slight:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disregard

 

[Dapper]

You just disregarded the definition of disregard.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

We are discussing tonnes of gold, sums to fund entire nations, and he chimes in worrying about flakes! Weak troll attempt at best.

Doesn't matter.

Paper money, quarters, nickels, dimes and pennies are the only currency backed by the US govt, that doesn't mean you can't buy, barter, trade with whatever the seller is willing to take.

Different than legal tender, I would guess.

 

[Dapper]

Doesn't matter.



Different than legal tender, I would guess.

Do you have anything else to bring to the conversation? Or anything to say at all? (in a complete sentence maybe?)
Perhaps try and apply your coin scenario to the real world. The world's gold reserve is coming up $4Billion short on just the US's worth. Do explain.

However, production has not grown in relation to the world's economies. Today, gold mining output is declining.[12] With the sharp growth of economies in the 20th century, and increasing foreign exchange, the world's gold reserves and their trading market have become a small fraction of all markets and fixed exchange rates of currencies to gold were no longer sustained.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Do you have anything else to bring to the conversation? Or anything to say at all? (in a complete sentence maybe?)
Perhaps try and apply your coin scenario to the real world. The world's gold reserve is coming up $4Billion short on just the US's worth. Do explain.

Allow people to use gold and silver, perhaps other things as regular currency. People could also use dollars if they choose. I don't exactly get why the gold reserve has to match the US' worth in dollars.

Ron Paul doesn't propose a fixed rate.

 

[Dapper]

I don't exactly get why the gold reserve has to match the US' worth in dollars.

Gotta have security!
I don't get why our money has to be matched by gold somewhere, either. Although, it certainly was a necessary step towards developing a global economy.

A commercial I saw a minute or two go

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Gotta have security!
I don't get why our money has to be matched by gold somewhere, either. Although, it certainly was a necessary step towards developing a global economy.

A commercial I saw a minute or two go

If it was a certain step to establish a global economy, yet it is a fundamentally flawed pillar as you seem to put it, how do you come to this somewhat of a paradox?

Also what does a not so well done satirical commercial have to do with the gold standard or something like a gold standard. They went with Sapphire probably cause of their company colors being so close to it, also to be different I would guess. Which is also your horrible attempt at satire.

 

[Dapper]

If it was a certain step to establish a global economy, yet it is a fundamentally flawed pillar as you seem to put it, how do you come to this somewhat of a paradox?

You seem unsure.
I get you don't understand the world is worth more now compared to medieval times, gold can't keep up with the growth and gold has been proven to be unnecessary in our current economy.

Also what does a not so well done satirical commercial have to do with the gold standard or something like a gold standard.

The commercial just points out color dictating desirability is nonsense.

 

[Luminis]

You seem unsure.
I get you don't understand the world is worth more now compared to medieval times, gold can't keep up with the growth and gold has been proven to be unnecessary in our current economy.

Do you consider the early 1970s to be medieval times, by the way? Just asking.

Oh, another article on the topic, from Forbes this time.

 

[Famine]

Did I just see someone describing a valuable and persistant commodity (the conversion and recycling of which - due to its unique properties - plays a huge role in the assignation of value to it) as less useful for determining the value of something through comparison than a fiat currency? A currency whose value can be changed at a whim by decision - the decision to print a (poop)ton more of it, for example?

Did I also see them doing so by using the valuation of two things - the commodity and the size of the economy the fiat currency governs - expressed in terms of that currency?

Isn't that a bit like saying the Bible is true because the Bible says it's true?

 

[homeforsummer]

We are discussing tonnes of gold, sums to fund entire nations, and he chimes in worrying about flakes! Weak troll attempt at best.

And yet, some of the world's biggest and most profitable companies - Apple, for example - make products that they simply wouldn't be able to make without gold. Those "flakes" are equally vital to economies as bars held in federal reserves. Possibly more so, given the billions it puts directly into the economy and the indirect billions of people using said products to buy other products.