Sim-Plicity Compact Series Direct Drive Wheels Thread
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Update for the FFB:
I tested some different values on the wheel app and I also set some values on AC FFB effects - they was on 0, the FFB ingame on 100%. So, in that way the difference was easy to feel, the wheel performs much stronger than CSL Elite. I dont know which combination can make the wheel in its 100% of power , but from my test in AC it feels maybe 60-70% stronger. I use "it feels", not "it is" , because someone can show paper specs and state that is impossible to be so stronger and on paper both wheels are very close. But the wheel feels really stronger, sometimes, too strong and you gotta think to hold tight all the time and to do not lower your gard.
After AC I tested rFactor 2 - there the FFB was inverted or opposite on needed for my wheel. I found where to put "-" in JSON file and I made it proper. In rFActor 2 the wheel feels maybe twice stronger compared to CSL E. You dint need to have CSL E wheel to feel that, because you feel power that can be twice stronger from any belt driven wheel on the market ( at least from those I know and not modded ofcourse). You feel how it can be dangerous. For example if you remove your hand off the wheel and wheels shakes left to right - it is impossible to hold it back without hurting your hands and I need to press ESC on the KB to make PAUSE. I am with F1 rim with 4 paddles -if you use leather or alcantara round shaped rim - it will be much easier to grab back. I didnt use FFB multiplier in rFactor 2, just on default settings. I found that in rFactor 2 the game didnt change wheel degree "by car" or even if you set by your wish to be 360 for example it still stays 900 degree wheel. I made a correction in wheel app to be able to drive open wheel car, which with 900 degree steering is impossible to drive.
Back to FFB power , because my bulgarian fellow @super_gt is power maniac
In FFB with some changes here and there in wheel app I did to be almost uncomfortable to use. For example on the long straight on Nordschleife I checked my phone thinking on a straight is safe and some bump on the road make the wheel to react and pulled the rim from my holding hand So , not only powerfull , but very fast reactions - this is very interesting combination. Dealing with metal shaft of the motor directly like your wheel steering shaft gives advantage to the motor too - it is metal against your hands. Any belt driven wheel with some powerfull motor/FFB will do some friction on belts, here the metal cant do frictions and it is against your bones and muscles
Now we know the needed power is there - at least for me is more than enough! Thats why most of the people with 20Nm use their wheels on 30-40% power. I really want to see what is 20 Nm on its 100% in rFactor 2. It is hard to explain what is to deal with more power than regular FFB wheel, but imagine you hold some machine in factory when the machine doing operation And we speak for the smalest ever used motor in DD wheel! I will continue to explore and do some tests. Next time I speak to Ollie I will ask him is it possible to add profiles in the wheel app.
Ofcourse people learn fast and after a week this FFB will be normal for me. Just sharing my first encounters with DD FFB. But no matter that is only 7 Nm - it is clear visible that SW7C have the DNA of its bigger brothers!
I tested some different values on the wheel app and I also set some values on AC FFB effects - they was on 0, the FFB ingame on 100%. So, in that way the difference was easy to feel, the wheel performs much stronger than CSL Elite. I dont know which combination can make the wheel in its 100% of power , but from my test in AC it feels maybe 60-70% stronger. I use "it feels", not "it is" , because someone can show paper specs and state that is impossible to be so stronger and on paper both wheels are very close. But the wheel feels really stronger, sometimes, too strong and you gotta think to hold tight all the time and to do not lower your gard.
After AC I tested rFactor 2 - there the FFB was inverted or opposite on needed for my wheel. I found where to put "-" in JSON file and I made it proper. In rFActor 2 the wheel feels maybe twice stronger compared to CSL E. You dint need to have CSL E wheel to feel that, because you feel power that can be twice stronger from any belt driven wheel on the market ( at least from those I know and not modded ofcourse). You feel how it can be dangerous. For example if you remove your hand off the wheel and wheels shakes left to right - it is impossible to hold it back without hurting your hands and I need to press ESC on the KB to make PAUSE. I am with F1 rim with 4 paddles -if you use leather or alcantara round shaped rim - it will be much easier to grab back. I didnt use FFB multiplier in rFactor 2, just on default settings. I found that in rFactor 2 the game didnt change wheel degree "by car" or even if you set by your wish to be 360 for example it still stays 900 degree wheel. I made a correction in wheel app to be able to drive open wheel car, which with 900 degree steering is impossible to drive.
Back to FFB power , because my bulgarian fellow @super_gt is power maniac
In FFB with some changes here and there in wheel app I did to be almost uncomfortable to use. For example on the long straight on Nordschleife I checked my phone thinking on a straight is safe and some bump on the road make the wheel to react and pulled the rim from my holding hand So , not only powerfull , but very fast reactions - this is very interesting combination. Dealing with metal shaft of the motor directly like your wheel steering shaft gives advantage to the motor too - it is metal against your hands. Any belt driven wheel with some powerfull motor/FFB will do some friction on belts, here the metal cant do frictions and it is against your bones and musclesNow we know the needed power is there - at least for me is more than enough! Thats why most of the people with 20Nm use their wheels on 30-40% power. I really want to see what is 20 Nm on its 100% in rFactor 2. It is hard to explain what is to deal with more power than regular FFB wheel, but imagine you hold some machine in factory when the machine doing operation
And we speak for the smalest ever used motor in DD wheel! I will continue to explore and do some tests. Next time I speak to Ollie I will ask him is it possible to add profiles in the wheel app.Ofcourse people learn fast and after a week this FFB will be normal for me. Just sharing my first encounters with DD FFB. But no matter that is only 7 Nm - it is clear visible that SW7C have the DNA of its bigger brothers!
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Whitestar
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- Whitestar127
Great news! Thanks for the update.Update for the FFB: [...] Now we know the needed power is there - at least for me is more than enough!But no matter that is only 7 Nm - it is clear visible that SW7C have the DNA of its bigger brothers!
I was wondering if you also could ask Ollie about the difference between the "standard" models and the "+" models, for example SW7C+. Not about specs, but about how different they feel. I know it's not of any interest to you personally, but would be interesting to know for me.Forza Motorsport 7 is also compatible with OSW, did you know that? And according to a few members on the AC forums (who are very picky about FFB) it handles REALLY good. You have to set it up with EmuWheel: https://forzatools.weebly.com/forza-emuwheel-setup-guide.html.GRally can be added to the supported games list!
The same compatibility is expected (but not available yet) for Forza Horizon 4.
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Thank you for the info! Btw, in the weekend I installed vJoy to test it with GIMX, because without vJoy I didnt had success - I think too many devices are impossible to work with GIMX if you dont group all in one with vJoy. For the Forza Emuwheel - I will test it- just started download of Forza 7 - it was removed for drive space issues. Jeez, it is 100 GB and on PC you cant shrink it like on Xbox. On Xbox if you dont need 4K it can be shrinked to 70 GB. Making all my devices work like one vJoy device will help with GIMX I think.Great news! Thanks for the update.
Forza Motorsport 7 is also compatible with OSW, did you know that? And according to a few members on the AC forums (who are very picky about FFB) it handles REALLY good. You have to set it up with EmuWheel: https://forzatools.weebly.com/forza-emuwheel-setup-guide.html.
The same compatibility is expected (but not available yet) for Forza Horizon 4.
About the question for + and non + versions... As you may know the + comes from better encoder mounted on the motor. I am sure and regular consumer cant see difference ingame. But I asked Ollie your question in the tunning session we had.... He told me that is possible to feel difference , but not comming from the encoder and not saying better or not, just difference. This comes from the fact that every compact wheel version have its own different firmware, not only related to biggger motor or encoder specs. He told me if I remember/understood correct that using different encoders and firmware for them - affect at different ways like CPU usage etc... So in general he wanted to say that it is not motor power/encoders thing to compare 2 different compact line wheels, because of the firmwares and other concequences.
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- 634
- Sofia
I tested the Forza Emuwheel app - and the wheel works on Forza 7. It is not perfect,but it is ok. Maybe dialing some numbers in the app FFB section will do it better, but it is acceptable result. The app is free so Thank you to the guys that developing this only to give us options to use more games.
- 4,932
- Bulgaria
- 4,932
- Bulgaria
He prefers Simucube based wheel, the Sim-Plicity control panel seems too simple for him. The wheel is better than any belt or gear driven wheels on the market.7Nm torque is not enough for him. The wheel becomes quite hot and he is concerned about reliability in the long run but he did not feel torque loss due to heat fade.
- 634
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Jeez, next time I will think twice before giving promisses LoL
The impact of this video to viewers: - If I am a person looking for my next DD affordable price range wheel - I will skip SW7C after this video.
My personal oppinion is that SW7C is "No Brainer", my friends here bought TS-PC for the price of SW7C.
As I said before - if you are customer looking for 28Nm wheel - I cant see reason to buy 7 Nm. Or if you are ready for the Podium DD1 or DD2 - I cant see why to go with the Compact line. But if you gravitate around 500-ish Euro/USD budget for a wheel - Why not to go DD with SW7C? Life is short to be on belts always!
The impact of this video to viewers: - If I am a person looking for my next DD affordable price range wheel - I will skip SW7C after this video.
My personal oppinion is that SW7C is "No Brainer", my friends here bought TS-PC for the price of SW7C.
As I said before - if you are customer looking for 28Nm wheel - I cant see reason to buy 7 Nm. Or if you are ready for the Podium DD1 or DD2 - I cant see why to go with the Compact line. But if you gravitate around 500-ish Euro/USD budget for a wheel - Why not to go DD with SW7C? Life is short to be on belts always!
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I have mixed feeling in where this product fits in the market. To be honest in that pricerange a person is much better off with a CSW V2.5. Much better support and warranty. People forget that developing software also costs money. Support and aftersales also cost money. It isnt just hardware.
And like I previously thought you are probably better of with the 10nm then the 7nm to have a margin of failure so the motor wont get too hot. I understand the "service"they provide of a personal guide to setup. But for me personally it is hella invonvenient.
Imagine if computers/consoles are sold that way? You are required to have a 1 on 1 tutorial or guide, before you can start surfing or gaming. Sounds a bit ridiculous in that context dont you agree?
And like I previously thought you are probably better of with the 10nm then the 7nm to have a margin of failure so the motor wont get too hot. I understand the "service"they provide of a personal guide to setup. But for me personally it is hella invonvenient.
Imagine if computers/consoles are sold that way? You are required to have a 1 on 1 tutorial or guide, before you can start surfing or gaming. Sounds a bit ridiculous in that context dont you agree?
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For me, my next upgrade is most likely going to be a CSW, only because of the ease in getting a playable product up and running.
I wouldn't consider the 7C, I'd be looking at a 12C and I'd operate it in the 7-8nm range. The problem for me would be, I'd have to get a steering wheel, and a button box and a Fanatec CS Clamp... (I need a versatile setup. Hard mounting isn't happening unless I get a wheel stand of some sort)...
BUT considering the wheel is going to be the last piece of my upgraded setup. I will have quite a bit of wiggle room on what wheel to go with. Perhaps a 12C would work out. But cost wise, I'd be in the Accuforce territory, wouldn't I?
I wouldn't consider the 7C, I'd be looking at a 12C and I'd operate it in the 7-8nm range. The problem for me would be, I'd have to get a steering wheel, and a button box and a Fanatec CS Clamp... (I need a versatile setup. Hard mounting isn't happening unless I get a wheel stand of some sort)...
BUT considering the wheel is going to be the last piece of my upgraded setup. I will have quite a bit of wiggle room on what wheel to go with. Perhaps a 12C would work out. But cost wise, I'd be in the Accuforce territory, wouldn't I?
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I also forgot to mention the convenience of an ecosystem. Having peripherals communicate with eachother without hiccups also costs money.
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Guys, alot of what you said is true. For example CSW is closer to up and running with every title. Also CSW have fanatec Ecosystem etc... But having DD wheel is completely new world and nothing even close to CSW. Also speaking for numbers like 7 Nm , 10 Nm etc is just speaking for numbers... When you test a SW7C you can decide is it powerfulll enough or not. Also I confim it is getting hot, but if SIM-PLICITY gave 2 years warranty with no question asked for the motor, so I cant see why you will worry. It will be great to compare Compact line to other DD wheels, because comparing to CSW is simply a joke I am not married to my SW7C - you can see me with DD1 next year, who knows, but it will be very strange to see me with CSW!
I am not married to my SW7C - you can see me with DD1 next year, who knows, but it will be very strange to see me with CSW!
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- 634
- Sofia
Speaking of CSW or other belt driven from time to time - It is absolute posible person with belt driven to have better experience from other with DD. And this is because of the Firmware,Drivers,Wheel settings, Game settings. When I say that DD is better than belt this is like technology, same as belt is better than gears. So, belt driven are not outsiders and no matter that DD are used from years - they still are like new technology and game devs give more attention to mass used brands and models!
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Speaking of CSW or other belt driven from time to time - It is absolute posible person with belt driven to have better experience from other with DD. And this is because of the Firmware,Drivers,Wheel settings, Game settings. When I say that DD is better than belt this is like technology, same as belt is better than gears. So, belt driven are not outsiders and no matter that DD are used from years - they still are like new technology and game devs give more attention to mass used brands and models!
I understand your opinion, however the motors used are not "new" tech. As far as I know these are repurposed industrial motors. That perhaps is the same for the smaller motors of the CSW. The fanatec DD however has purposefully desinged motors designed for simracing, which is new tech. I am not sure for the FeelVR one, but I remember reading/hearing they are also using custom motors.
That said the sim-plicity wheels could be the ideal budget option for people who want to build a custom rig on the budget. I just dont see the appeal for the average simracer which it is aiming for. (budger DD wheel for the mass)
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For the Gaming segment DD wheels not motors are new tech, no matter which motor use the specific DD brand. It is not about the motor type - the motor just receive commands and execute those commands. When we speak for DD wheel it is good to know that the most important thing is what happened in the control box (if it is external). So what will be FeelVR - will be more related to the controller PCB. The motor type ofcourse is important, but in these days you can choose from big gamma motors best for your needs if you produce DD wheel. Even custom ones are based on similar model. No need to invent motor. And by "NEW" - I mean not implemented in games like current wheels. Special for Fanatec motors - I will be happy to know that those motors are Simracing oriented. But every motor have specs and if you match those specs - it will be similar motor even if it is produced to rotate production line.
One thing is sure for Fanatec DDs - the first official DD wheels produced from Big company in the gaming industry!
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Just exploring what I would need to finish an OSW/Simplicity wheel setup. If anyone knows where I can find button plates, please share.
So far I found Asher Racing although they are in Europe. https://www.ascher-racing.com/
And OSR. They at least show US prices (Hooray). https://opensimracing.com/
OSR makes and sells a number of things that would be helpful. Their button plates aren't terrible when it comes to price, but the trick would be finding wheels that fit the plates without buying Momo or Sparco steering wheels. They tend to be needlessly expensive, at least in my opinion. I guess I will peruse CarId or JC Whitney for an appropriate knockoff.
If the extra accessories needed to get the wheel running are within $300, then I will consider the costs to be a wash compared to Fanatec's offerings...
I know. I could always get a Fanatec rim. The Clubsport Wheel Rim GT looks like it would work as a Momo Mod 30 stand in. Speaking of which. Take a look at this...
https://opensimracing.com/collectio...el-fit-momo-mod-30-or-fanatec-gt-or-similar-1
I'm waffling because the wheel is falling into the spend a little more and get more, category. I haven't begun to work out prices because I have 2 other items to purchase before I consider a wheel. But I will keep an open mind and keep watching this thread.
So far I found Asher Racing although they are in Europe. https://www.ascher-racing.com/
And OSR. They at least show US prices (Hooray). https://opensimracing.com/
OSR makes and sells a number of things that would be helpful. Their button plates aren't terrible when it comes to price, but the trick would be finding wheels that fit the plates without buying Momo or Sparco steering wheels. They tend to be needlessly expensive, at least in my opinion. I guess I will peruse CarId or JC Whitney for an appropriate knockoff.
If the extra accessories needed to get the wheel running are within $300, then I will consider the costs to be a wash compared to Fanatec's offerings...
I know. I could always get a Fanatec rim. The Clubsport Wheel Rim GT looks like it would work as a Momo Mod 30 stand in. Speaking of which. Take a look at this...
https://opensimracing.com/collectio...el-fit-momo-mod-30-or-fanatec-gt-or-similar-1
I'm waffling because the wheel is falling into the spend a little more and get more, category. I haven't begun to work out prices because I have 2 other items to purchase before I consider a wheel. But I will keep an open mind and keep watching this thread.
:edit: Just read the fine print at OSR. The button plates don't have the buttons or paddle shifters. I'd need to supply and install them, similar to some of the products that Asher Racing provides.
Perhaps looking into rigging a Fanatec wheel to work with an OSW setup, may be a less painful option?
I'm making this into more of a problem than it really is, aren't I?
Perhaps looking into rigging a Fanatec wheel to work with an OSW setup, may be a less painful option?
I'm making this into more of a problem than it really is, aren't I?
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- 145
- Thessaloniki
@Doppelganger you can use whatever you like with osw. You can get a standalone fanatec adaptor for fanatec wheels. Or you can use any cheap oem(doesnt need to be official momo or whatever brand) steering wheel with a button plate from one of the companies you mentioned. Or you can print a button plate and diy yourself.
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