SimVibe (SimXperience)

[museumsteve]

yeah greeze, pop into Maplins or PC World on your way home I wanna know what it's like 👍

I have 3 extra receivers and a bunch of shakers/miniquakes ready, just need the software cant wait

 

[the_greeze]

Don't say i didn't warn you LOL

That's my trouble... easily led

Just pick up an el cheapo sound card. I said it way back then we don't need a $300 sound card to run telemetry and Berney said as much over at the iRacing.com forum.

BTW Simon how's the rig coming along, it's been months since we raced.

Don't worry Darren, it'll be a cheap one! The rig is almost there, just some minor "finishing touches" and I'm done. Although I'm now being distracted by all this SimVibe malarky...

yeah greeze, pop into Maplins or PC World on your way home I wanna know what it's like 👍

Shut up!

 

[wajdi1977]

So I don't need a high quality sound card?

 

[Mr Latte]

I do believe this software will become a huge success...

Also understand Berney's position in wanting to maintain simpleness and cost effective or attractive proposition to buy such. Even his own goals to expand his own range of cockpits with a future simple upgrade.

Tell me what happened to community modding/experimentation?

Berney has as much said he does not advise using chassis mode with extensions.
Apparently it is too much brain overload and our brains will cancel out additional tactile and their is no point even trying to be creative or outlandish. Regards soundcards I'd rather have a decent card for my audio thanks very much and extra modes etc do not need to be activated if they mess around with things, oh that's right you can turn them off and still have any benefits a quality card are supposed to offer.

However I can speak from experience what Asus Flexbass II adds to tactile low end performance if say running Buttkicker's LFE @ 1000w each which aparently goes as low as 5hz. Or alternatively running an external sub harmonic processor (approved by home cinema buffs) to extend the bass frequencies. Yet all this of course is regarded as nonsense by others.

My position is kinda different in actually building a cockpit specifically based in achieving high-end audio/tactile immersion. Using whatever brand/products based on my own testing/preference I determine is most suitable and whatever shape, form the build requires or takes in achieving such. Quite a different position to just bolting on any old tactile to a frame or seat and settling for a standard/recommended configuration.

I have tried being creative in this area but such discussion is lost it seems on some. For regards cockpit users that want Simvibe for their cockpits but not solely using tactile for PC instead also incorporating a tactile configuration that works great for current/future consoles if using "multichannel audio decoding" something several n these forums have dappled with for the last 2+ years already.

The success/failure of such testing is part of the journey, hey thats tactile and same for myself looking at it in the hobbyist perspective. Yet while my build very easily will support the standard chassis configuration(s) as it will be fully adaptable to do so it seems impossible to discuss such intentions without being branded a pest or wack job in having such expectations.

Got to give it to the I racing community, if your not one of the gang or regulars then don't expect to get much support in having an alternative view or even dare something deemed too outrageous. Even if you have successfully in the past achieved multichannel tactile way beyond 4 channels as already they can tell you in advance it is a waste of time, you're wrong your ideas are crazy and their tactile is just perfect.

I give up on the prospect that somewhere I will find others looking to implement this but also looking beyond, at possibilities and combining with audio tactile configurations that ensure also benefiting their console enjoyment too and not just Simvibes 4way chassis mode.

 

[the_greeze]

Mr Latte
I do believe this software will become a huge success...

Also understand Berney's position in wanting to maintain simpleness and cost effective or attractive proposition to buy such. Even his own goals to expand his own range of cockpits with a future simple upgrade.

Tell me what happened to community modding/experimentation?

Berney has as much said he does not advise using chassis mode with extensions.
Apparently it is too much brain overload and our brains will cancel out additional tactile and their is no point even trying to be creative or outlandish. Regards soundcards I'd rather have a decent card for my audio thanks very much and extra modes etc do not need to be activated if they mess around with things, oh that's right you can turn them off and still have any benefits a quality card are supposed to offer.

However I can speak from experience what Asus Flexbass II adds to tactile low end performance if say running Buttkicker's LFE @ 1000w each which aparently goes as low as 5hz. Or alternatively running an external sub harmonic processor (approved by home cinema buffs) to extend the bass frequencies. Yet all this of course is regarded as nonsense by others.

My position is kinda different in actually building a cockpit specifically based in achieving high-end audio/tactile immersion. Using whatever brand/products based on my own testing/preference I determine is most suitable and whatever shape, form the build requires or takes in achieving such. Quite a different position to just bolting on any old tactile to a frame or seat and settling for a standard/recommended configuration.

I have tried being creative in this area but such discussion is lost it seems on some. For regards cockpit users that want Simvibe for their cockpits but not solely using tactile for PC instead also incorporating a tactile configuration that works great for current/future consoles if using "multichannel audio decoding" something several n these forums have dappled with for the last 2+ years already.

The success/failure of such testing is part of the journey, hey thats tactile and same for myself looking at it in the hobbyist perspective. Yet while my build very easily will support the standard chassis configuration(s) as it will be fully adaptable to do so it seems impossible to discuss such intentions without being branded a pest or wack job in having such expectations.

Got to give it to the I racing community, if your not one of the gang or regulars then don't expect to get much support in having an alternative view or even dare something deemed too outrageous. Even if you have successfully in the past achieved multichannel tactile way beyond 4 channels as already they can tell you in advance it is a waste of time, you're wrong your ideas are crazy and their tactile is just perfect.

I give up on the prospect that somewhere I will find others looking to implement this but also looking beyond, at possibilities and combining with audio tactile configurations that ensure also benefiting their console enjoyment too and not just Simvibes 4way chassis mode.

Jesus, that's hard to read. What's your point exactly?

 

[Mr Latte]

Lol...

While the software supports upto 8 channels.

4 is being recommended but I question why as I easily see opportunity for specific "engine effects" central like pedal tactile set to an independent tactile unit(s). So why not even a simple additional tactile placed onto a shifter mount using the "gear" extension. As for the seat again the idea of adding purposely positioned tactile on a seat to enhance the tactile spread using the "seat" extension all have been discouraged...

I'm crazy I guess but thing is I want to test such and not be told by someone else what will or will not be possible. Isolation is possible to achieve such and not have just a complete muddle of vibrations and if anything this software gives such control for independent effects it seems to be a valid consideration for those wanting more if they desire such.

 

[the_greeze]

Lol...

While the software supports upto 8 channels.

4 is being recommended but I question why as I easily see opportunity for specific "engine effects" central like pedal tactile set to an independent tactile unit(s). So why not even a simple additional tactile placed onto a shifter mount using the "gear" extension. As for the seat again the idea of adding purposely positioned tactile on a seat to enhance the tactile spread using the "seat" extension all have been discouraged...

I'm crazy I guess but thing is I want to test such and not be told by someone else what will or will not be possible. Isolation is possible to achieve such and not have just a complete muddle of vibrations and if anything this software gives such control for independent effects it seems to be a valid consideration for those wanting more if they desire such.

Gotcha!

So the software supports 8 channels but SimXperience is recommending using just 4?!

I have 8-way audio-driven tactile (with suitable isolation) and it rocks. As long as I can still achieve 8-way with SimVibe I'll be happy. If other people are convinced that anything more than four results in a mish-mash of vibration then fine; let them think that. Ignorance is bliss and as you said you'll be perceived as a nutcase for wanting more!

Remember, even Inside Sim Racing said my tactile setup was crazy when my rig was featured on their Sim Rig of the Week section. What do they know...

 

[Mr Latte]

No clearly you are confused, Berney's own testing over a year has achieved optimal performance with 4 tactile. Any more has detrimental effect. This is what I have been told regardless any mention on products used.

Now we both know from experience how a rear surround channel placed at the back of a seat could easily represent a "rear" engine and a centre channel tactile would be perfect for a "front' engine effect for a pedal section/wheel deck area.

Yet at the same time with such options these could combine with the directional front and rear Chassis effects. The simple reason is an engine effect does not need to be directional but feeling the effect more clearly at the front/rear when appropriate on a dedicated channel could compliment chassis mode if done right, do you not agree in principle?

 

[HoiHman]

I'm rebuilding my rig for adding the simvibe chassis (4 way directional feedback)

Op top of the 4 way chassis mode, i will add another two simvibe extensions zones (seat & pedals mainly for engine rpm)

I will take the engine rpm effect out the chassismode, so the other effects are clearer.

Just did a couple of laps in F1 2012 this morning, you can feel the curbs, feel the engine rpm, bumps and gearshifts.

If you try F1 2012 with audio tactile, you feel almost nothing.

You guys are gonna love this piece of software.

 

[the_greeze]

No clearly you are confused, Berney's own testing over a year has achieved optimal performance with 4 tactile. Any more has detrimental effect. This is what I have been told regardless any mention on products used.

Now we both know from experience how a rear surround channel placed at the back of a seat could easily represent a "rear" engine and a centre channel tactile would be perfect for a "front' engine effect for a pedal section/wheel deck area.

Yet at the same time with such options these could combine with the directional front and rear Chassis effects. The simple reason is an engine effect does not need to be directional but feeling the effect more clearly at the front/rear when appropriate on a dedicated channel could compliment chassis mode if done right, do you not agree in principle?

Detrimental only because of insufficent or (most probably) no isolation. I don't buy the fact that better effects cannot be acheived with more channels with suitable isolation in place (my current tactile setup adds weight to this argument). So yes, in principle I agree with you...

I'm rebuilding my rig for adding the simvibe chassis (4 way directional feedback)

Op top of the 4 way chassis mode, i will add another two simvibe extensions zones (seat & pedals mainly for engine rpm)

I will take the engine rpm effect out the chassismode, so the other effects are clearer.

You guys are gonna love this piece of software.

Yes! Bust that 4-channel myth! I'm really looking forward to trying it out

 

[the_greeze]

If you have an onboard soundcard, you can use it too

I have my audio output from onboard optical-out. I also have 3.5mm jacks for analogue output; could I use these without having to fit an additional card, do you think?

 

[Mr Latte]

It is encouraging to see some of you guys with similar experience share the same thoughts regards testing extensions with chassis mode rather than me being ridiculed like elsewhere.

Look forward to your future comments from testing guys.
My own testing of Simvibe still has to wait due to other upgrades on the cockpit platform and besides the money, materials still needed to get to that stage.

This does not mean I'm not working towards it with other ongoing testing/comparing of various tactile I have purchased.

Here is very basic early testing currently being done to identify on general performance how well these compare:

1x Clarke 429 Platinium $650
Transduction force: 6.9 lb-ft/watt • Tactile force peak: 932 lb-ft

1x Clarke 239 Silver $157
Transduction force: 2.2 lb-ft/watt • Tactile force peak: 297 lb-ft

4x Buttkicker LFE are purchased and ready, these are my Chassis tactile due to their power and LFE characteristics. How will these compare to the 239 Silvers above might be interesting?

Ipad used for app that detects vibraton/motion and a Precision Gold sound level meter will be used to help with my own testing with all the tactile and comparing different isolators performance.

Proof is in the pudding......

 

[HoiHman]

I have my audio output from onboard optical-out. I also have 3.5mm jacks for analogue output; could I use these without having to fit an additional card, do you think?

No, I'm affraid you need a dedicated simvibe card.

@Rodney, we all know you ARE crazy ` LOL

 

[Mr Latte]

It must be the Irish thing then eh...

Regards your questions in PM Clarke tactile will create more noise, but really moreso with using full range effects using typical audio. Reducing the HZ (I recommend anything from 50-80) as music and games will create more detail up around 80 but over this things start effecting the bottom range performance.

Buttkickers can have a slight delay with certain circumstances IMO. Their is also the bottoming out effect which happens but later I will try to help give people just input on different models. I still recommend to anyone buy one of each that you are considering and do your own testing. It very much can be a personal thing too.

Parts Express have a new "Visatron" model but it very much looks like a copy of the "Aura Pro" and similar to the "Reckhorn 100" or other eastern alternatives. They all seem to share similar listed specs.

The "ibeam" / "Crowson" / "Clarke Gold 429" and "Earthquake" are the only main branded tactile I have not pruchased or tested to some level. The ibeam is more for cars and very overpriced, Crowson more for sofa/cinema seats, again expensive in comparison and the "Clarke Gold" well its price is much higher than the Silver yet not much below the Platinium so it has to perform in between the two shown above. The "Earthquake" range seems very similar to Buttkicker and comments in various AV forums seem to have some people preferring them or Buttkickers but no clear winner.

Hope some of that is useful.

 

[HoiHman]

Thanks, no clarke for me then. Silent operation is a must for me.

I will be very interesting to see the simvibe approved list, which should also be released this sunday.

Regarding my tactile : Just ordered the aluminium frame for step 1.

Now, i'm gonna F1 2012 a try with simvibe

 

[the_greeze]

Okay, I've just had a very quick look at the newly updated Sim Commander 3 with SimVibe. Is it possible to have individual SimVibe settings for individual cars? I didn't see that option; it looks like global settings? Is it even necessary? I only ask as at the moment (with my audio-based tactile) I have different settings for different cars...

Thanks. I'll be getting hold of a soundcard over the weekend to try it all out 👍

 

[Mr Latte]

Have fun, look forward to how you get on Henk and please do give feedback from various games and settings in the software. Be great to hear things from all of you...

If you have an ipad/iphone check out that little app:
Here

While not scientific it can help give a visual representation to vibrations using the accelerometer.

I have this chair literally dancing with simple music testing at about 400w.

The Clarke Platinium certainly is an impressive unit and I can see now finally owning one why the guys at Mobsim cockpits use them specifically.

Though it is not IMO worth it's full price, but to get the best kit in anything you have to pay.

Good luck on your quest guys...

It's time to....
"Shake n Bake"

 

[HoiHman]

Okay, I've just had a very quick look at the newly updated Sim Commander 3 with SimVibe. Is it possible to have individual SimVibe settings for individual cars? I didn't see that option; it looks like global settings? Is it even necessary? I only ask as at the moment (with my audio-based tactile) I have different settings for different cars...

Thanks. I'll be getting hold of a soundcard over the weekend to try it all out 👍

Yet it's necessay to have individual cars setting it you want to achieve realism. Engine front / Engine back ect ect.

Just duplicate the sim setup you already have rename it with the cars name in the simsetups name:

For example: Iracing Mazda, Iracing skip barber ect ect.

If you can to go from the Mazda to the skip barber in Iracing, you have to do that by lauching another profile.



@Rodney, i will certainly take a look at that app and i love tallega nights

Let's shake and bake......

 

[Mr Latte]

Hey no probs, the app has actual uses.

I have plans with it in the future...

For instance with both chairs shown above running tactile and using the same app:
1 via my ipad3, the other via iphone5 simultaneously it clearly shows that the tactile/vibration movement is much greater with the 429 over the 239 Silver by approx 2.5 or 3.0 in instances. You can go to exact timelines to compare or email the data. So quite a handy tool for A/B comparisons of different tactile.

Only recently started using it so got more substantial testing to do with it. However it is a tool others can use to help verify each others findings.

Do not know of any website/resource that showcases several tactile being compared in various tests and to some element of accuracy. Something to give people more understanding in their performance if nothing else.

I have had thoughts on doing full blown reviews and a dedicated website but then people put me down constantly so why bother. (cry cry cry)

Right enough talk of such, back to Simvibe chatter...
Others can PM anything if they want.

 

[left888]

According to Berney he said he does not recommend using audio tactile and telemetry tactile at the same time. I however will for one simple reason and perhaps some of you might agree with me. When I fire up my Riley prototype in iRacing the engine sounds are very realistic. I am using an old Pioneer receiver (4 years) and it is very nice. With a large sub woofer with the bass almost maximized it gives me the sound of immersional bliss.

No turning it down because the kids are sleeping Some nights/mornings I find myself up practicing til 5:00 am, anyways with the audio secured I will not need any more telemetry tactile of more then the four corners as recommended by Berney. Well at least initially. Perhaps after I see how this works I might add two more Aura bass shakers to the side of the seat.

Also at this point for those just getting into tactile telemetry/audio I would not invest a large sum of money. Start with four Aura bass shakers or the cheaper pucks and perhaps two buttkickers. If you have a decent audio amp and subwoofer you have a good start on the audio tactile.

 

[the_greeze]

Yet it's necessay to have individual cars setting it you want to achieve realism. Engine front / Engine back ect ect.

Just duplicate the sim setup you already have rename it with the cars name in the simsetups name:

For example: Iracing Mazda, Iracing skip barber ect ect.

If you can to go from the Mazda to the skip barber in Iracing, you have to do that by lauching another profile.

Cheers After a bit more 'fiddling' I see what you mean now. Good stuff...

Okay, PCI Express soundcards sourced on eBay along with the necessary leads and connectors required for me to hook it all up. As soon as it all turns up, I'll be in there like swimwear...

 

[wajdi1977]

According to Berney he said he does not recommend using audio tactile and telemetry tactile at the same time. I however will for one simple reason and perhaps some of you might agree with me. When I fire up my Riley prototype in iRacing the engine sounds are very realistic. I am using an old Pioneer receiver (4 years) and it is very nice. With a large sub woofer with the bass almost maximized it gives me the sound of immersional bliss.

No turning it down because the kids are sleeping Some nights/mornings I find myself up practicing til 5:00 am, anyways with the audio secured I will not need any more telemetry tactile of more then the four corners as recommended by Berney. Well at least initially. Perhaps after I see how this works I might add two more Aura bass shakers to the side of the seat.

Also at this point for those just getting into tactile telemetry/audio I would not invest a large sum of money. Start with four Aura bass shakers or the cheaper pucks and perhaps two buttkickers. If you have a decent audio amp and subwoofer you have a good start on the audio tactile.

I will begin with this step:tup:I have already ordered 2 ButtKickers 2 and I think that this will be a good start because here in Israele it costs almost 300$ for one BKG2!!

 

[HoiHman]

........

No turning it down because the kids are sleeping ........

That's my main issue, not only the kids but the wife too

The wife also has a pretty good hearing , actually too good. On mornings all my tactile units are on half volume or less.

Tonight the whole family was gone and i had one of those spare moments that i could really turn EVERTHING in that way we all would like

At that point is does not matter if a tactile unit rattles, makes some other noise or not, because you simply can't hear them any more. 👍

It's just awesome....

Still wouldn't trade in the family for world, but i would love to have a soundproof raceroom.

 

[HoiHman]

...As soon as it all turns up, I'll be in there like swimwear...

Somehow i allways knew you would be

 

[Mr Latte]

I'm not so sure combining multichannel tactile from audio would work in conjunction with Simvibe with great success.

I do believe though that using the LFE via a sub or large tactile unit in the seat could enhance Chassis mode. Maybe HoiHmann can try his seat config with 2 chassis effects and his BKA as audio LFE. However he makes a good point that certain games really lack in audio effects.

Vesaro using Dbox motion/tactile use Buttkicker to enhance their cockpits so the principle is the same with tactile from telementary mixed with audio (mono) tactile.

Although I very much see some people possibly testing an extension which could be tuned to highlight/bolster only low end effects in the seat bang central of the 4 chassis effects.

 

[museumsteve]

I just hope it gets released tomorrow as I have the whole of tmrw evening free

 

[HoiHman]

... Maybe HoiHmann can try his seat config with 2 chassis effects and his BKA as audio LFE. However he makes a good point that certain games really lack in audio effects.

.....

I already tried it. I immediatley missed the ultimate controle over the desired effects.

When you have a simvibe supported game, there is no need for audio tactile.

There is one other interesting issue though: when you are playing a non simvibe supported or console game, you have to rewire everything because the transducers are connected to the second soundcard.This where an audio switch comes in handy.

 

[LogiForce]

SimVibe has been released!

The price is $79.00 US Dollars, or €62.52 Euros.


The first SimVibe certified and fully compatible tactile transducer:

Buttkicker Mini LFE SE (SimVibe Edition)

The SE ButtKicker Mini LFE is an all new ButtKicker that is purpose designed by engineers at SimXperience and ButtKicker to help you get the most accurate response and detail from the SimXperience SimVibe software while reducing undesired transducer noise.

Redesigned ButtKicker internals are optimized for SimVibe
Frequency Response - 10Hz - 250Hz
50 Watt Minimum
150 Watt Maximum (when used with SimVibe which produces a criper, harder hitting signal than traditional audio)
250 Watt Maximum (Audio Only! See comment from Berney of Simvibe: here)
Impediance - 4 Ohms
Weight - 2.2 lbs
Height - 3"
Width - 4.75"
Length - 4.75"
Uses standard ButtKicker Mini LFE casing and mounting dimensions
Mounts to SimXperience Stage Series motion simulators via optional mounting plates


Available at SimXperience as well for the following price:

Price + Shipping: $95.00 US Dollars, or €72.90 Euros.


Just wanted to let you guys know. Now I will go and try out this thing. Enjoy, cause so will I... I reckon!

 

[bvillersjr]

It's a rough crowd around here

I get asked for what our research says is optimal and people bust my chops for shoving a configuration down their throat.

If I am asked to suggest transducers and suggest the ones above (which we had to have reengineered because no shelf transducer could meet our needs) I'm sure that will be misconstrued also.

Therefore I will not be offering any configuration or hardware advice. In all honestly, there is quite a bit of enjoyment to be had in learning the lessons I've learned in the last year on your own anyway.

 

[LogiForce]

I think you have to see it this way. As with sound, tactile setup will be a personal thing to experience.

There are people who are tone deaf and others who are audiophiles.
I think it is the same with tactile. Cause some people never get car or sea sick, while others barely have to move in said methods of transport before they do. So I am sure the sensitivity for motion and also tactile inputs will differ from human to human.


In any case. Since I haven't gone to bed yet, I will in a moment. But I had to try out Simvibe since I couldn't really fall asleep.

Simvibe seems to be a really awesome piece of kit and as far as the sleepy eye can see, it offers a wealth of setup possibilities. I can't wait to tinker with it more when I wake up.

Tried Dirt 2 and iRacing so far. First thing I noticed and did was to move the BKG2 from the side of rSeat to its original mounting position again. After this SimVibe felt great.
SimVibe does not seem to work well when the tactile device is vertically mounted (punching from left to right), but it has to be horizontal (punching up and down).

The only thing this leaves me with is to wonder how in the world I should mount 4 tactile transducers to it for optimal feel.


Also a question to you, bvillersjr. When will we be able to see Project CARS supported? I heard you were working with SMS on this?