Since Porsche is excluded from Gran Turismo 5, which tuner should be added?

[sumbrownkid]

It's an interesting question. Does the tuner have to ask the head manufacturer for a license to appear in a game? Does Spoon have to ask Honda? Does Tom's ask Toyota? If so, how can we search this?! I am intrigued now.

In the credits/licensing section of GT4's manual I think Spoon and Tom's are listed separately from their bigger "parents". Can someone look this up? My GT4 is back home in a box somewhere in my room.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I would assume so because they are licensing the chassis from the manufacturer and then tuning it and badging it with their own. However it is still a Porsche, it's just aftermarkert and RUF for example is still associated with Porsche and Porsche still gets recognised, just like Spoon is associated with Honda even though it doesn't have "Honda" written all over it. I think you find that if anyone would license Porsche it would not only be the badge, but the appearence and (legally ambiguous) "feel" of the brand.

Otherwise PD would just model a Carrera GT3 as "inspiration" and badge it with PD. Problem solved.

But then what is the point of Ruf being a manufacturer if they still have to ask Porsche if they can be in GT5? I think being a manufacturer grants you the right to be autonomous from the "original" company in licensing issues.

 

[reece22345]

But then what is the point of Ruf being a manufacturer if they still have to ask Porsche if they can be in GT5? I think being a manufacturer grants you the right to be autonomous from the "original" company in licensing issues.

The only reason they are recognised as a manufacturer is because of German Legislation. They still use a Porsche as a starting point. It all depends on what the contract with Porsche is that gives EA or whoever it is exclusive rights.

If it has a clause that says "Porsche and all affiliate third-party manufacturers" then it's game over. If it doesn't then there's hope.

Got access to the contract?

Speculation is all we've got but I doubt that RUF would have the rights to do whatever they want with their cars seeing as people still inherently say "Porsche" when they see an RUF CTR3. Even if we don't see them that way.

 

[Havok_]

I prefer the RUF counterparts more than the originals actually. All the RUF's are much more aggresivley tuned than the stock porsche's and they look better. The only factory Porsche's i would have loved to virtually drive is the 959 and the gt3.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^Well from my point of view, if the government says and acknowledges that Ruf is it's own entity separate from Porsche (Yes they look the same), then I guess Ruf has every right to do whatever they want with it's cars, and Porsche can't really do much about it. Plus it's kinda badass if a small company like Ruf can give Porsche the middle finger.

I wish I had the contract to see how it's written.

 

[reece22345]

This is an interesting bit of conversation I just found. No "proof" but it's from '06.

http://forums.eu.atari.com/archive/index.php/t-41733.html

I think the only way we will know is if we look at the contract or we wait for announcements/info from PD.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

I am feverishly looking up anything about tuners and how limited limited/able they are to market themselves.

 

[reece22345]

I am feverishly looking up anything about tuners and how limited limited/able they are to market themselves.

I couldn't find anything

What about contacting one of them and actually asking?

 

[sumbrownkid]

Well a lot of tuners omit the original companies' names from the car when they are finished with it. So I guess they have a lot of free reign.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

I couldn't find anything

What about contacting one of them and actually asking?

You know, I have been wondering this, too. My only worry is how the hell will anybody who answers a telephone know a question of this size and importance? If you can find a number, I'd have no problem calling a company. I'd call Gemballa probably before anyone else.

 

[reece22345]

Well a lot of tuners omit the original companies' names from the car when they are finished with it. So I guess they have a lot of free reign.

But is that just agreements between companies or is that a generic thing?

Ah the horrors of ambiguity.

 

[sumbrownkid]

It's probably a generic thing. I don't think a giant manufacturer would want to be a douche to a small company that improves it's vehicles. Unless the tuner openly says that the original company's car sucks hard.

 

[Northstar]

Well a lot of tuners omit the original companies' names from the car when they are finished with it. So I guess they have a lot of free reign.

The only thing is though is that even with a different logo it is still the same car it was before.(i.e. Spoon S2000) It is still a Honda S2000, it has just been tuned by Spoon. Whereas RUF changes enough to have it recognized as a totally separate car from a Porsche.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Well, we already have the BMW Mclaren F1.

 

[Northstar]

That is because it was a BMW team car, I think this was the same loophole that allowed them to get the Lamborghini in GT3 with the JLOC team.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

I would assume if Porsche did really say no, and Kaz wasn't just saving the truth for a grander event than a pesky reporter, then we might see something of this nature.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^But Lambo bitched about it because the Diablo name was not licensed, so the car had to go.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

I am going to E-mail the marketing email address I got from Gemballa's website. I want to know if they can market themselves without necessarily having to go through Porsche.

Edit: E-mail sent to marketing manager, awaiting response.

 

[McLaren]

In the credits/licensing section of GT4's manual I think Spoon and Tom's are listed separately from their bigger "parents". Can someone look this up? My GT4 is back home in a box somewhere in my room.

They are listed because PD have to get license permissions to use their names as well.


Ok, folks need to pay attention. Tuners can not be in the game as substitutes if the original manufacturer can't under most circumstances.

For example, if you want to use a Porsche 911 Turbo, you have to acquire Porsche's license & then be allowed the use of the 911 Turbo name.
If you want a Sportec 911 Turbo SP580, you still have to not only gain Sportec's license to use their name & car, but you also have to contact Porsche so that you may use 911 Turbo.

The same applied when people wanted to use the Hamann name as a substitute for Ferrari in GT4.


As for Gemballa, yes, it's very possible they could be put in the game as they are a manufacturer. But Sportec, Roock, TechArt, or Hamann-tuned Porsche's can not be used without their approval along with Porsche's of the model name.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^Thanks for the info Mclaren.

 

[84SSccc]

Any company except Rinspeed would be fine with me

 

[reece22345]

They are listed because PD have to get license permissions to use their names as well.


Ok, folks need to pay attention. Tuners can not be in the game as substitutes if the original manufacturer can't under most circumstances.

For example, if you want to use a Porsche 911 Turbo, you have to acquire Porsche's license & then be allowed the use of the 911 Turbo name.
If you want a Sportec 911 Turbo SP580, you still have to not only gain Sportec's license to use their name & car, but you also have to contact Porsche so that you may use 911 Turbo.

The same applied when people wanted to use the Hamann name as a substitute for Ferrari in GT4.


As for Gemballa, yes, it's very possible they could be put in the game as they are a manufacturer. But Sportec, Roock, TechArt, or Hamann-tuned Porsche's can not be used without their approval along with Porsche's of the model name.

Yeah that's what we have been saying. The question is though, has EA or whoever got a clause that says no Porsche related manufacturers are allowed elsewhere. Basically, is RUF allowed to market themselves in say GT5 even if Porsche is constrained under an exclusive license or could there be a "blanket inclusive" contract of sorts?

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Once I get this e-mail response, we shall know the truth. I am just waiting for him to say, "Why yes, we will be featured in an upcoming game soon."

I'D BE LIKE WHOA!!!

 

[sumbrownkid]

^Then the guy sends a second e-mail saying he was just screwing with you for the lulz...

@Reece: Going by Mclaren's post, Ruf wouldn't have a problem in licensing since they aren't using any Porsche monikers when naming their cars.

 

[McLaren]

Yeah that's what we have been saying. The question is though, has EA or whoever got a clause that says no Porsche related manufacturers are allowed elsewhere. Basically, is RUF allowed to market themselves in say GT5 even if Porsche is constrained under an exclusive license or could there be a "blanket inclusive" contract of sorts?

Porsche has no say over Ruf. Ruf can license themselves to whomever they want.

EA however, likely holds all the rights to Porsche meaning, EA holds the rights to the 911 Turbo, Cayman, Boxster, etc. models. So any game that mentions these models is likely in violation as they do not hold the rights to use those trademarked names.

 

[reece22345]

Porsche has no say over Ruf. Ruf can license themselves to whomever they want.

EA however, likely holds all the rights to Porsche meaning, EA holds the rights to the 911 Turbo, Cayman, Boxster, etc. models. So any game that mentions these models is likely in violation as they do not hold the rights to use those trademarked names.

but then if they own the models, I.e the chassis then doesn't that cover RUF because they use Porsche models but just do their own thing?

 

[sumbrownkid]

Ruf is given leeway because of their manufacturer tag, that's just about it. Yeah they use the same chassis Porsche, but other than that, it's a Ruf on official papers.

 

[McLaren]

but then if they own the models, I.e the chassis then doesn't that cover RUF because they use Porsche models but just do their own thing?

Well, to start, the chassis' Ruf buy are unmarked, so that helps keep Ruf free of any licensing there.

 

[reece22345]

Well, to start, the chassis' Ruf buy are unmarked, so that helps keep Ruf free of any licensing there.

Sounds good then

 

[ZANELE]

I think all of them or as much as posible should make an appearance in GT5, more tuning companies to choose from, still they could make RUF the main/biggest tuner in that category the (BIGDADDY) since they have been so faithful to PD.