Slightly Irritated With Gran Turismo 7 and Its Current State.

[mef]

What do you mean it’s designed for Sony and PD? What do these companies gain from not giving players a satisfying game when it would require very little effort?

The game is designed to maximise profit, minimise team expense to achieve the usual graphical bar, and ultimately do just enough to please fans.
It’s a “great” product from a business pov, that’s why I’m saying it’s a game made for Sony and pd foremost. The unwillingness to fix the grind heavy micro transactions and the joke of the roulette wheel as “reward” for completing races are clear signs.

 

[MoLiEG]

The game is designed to maximise profit, minimise team expense to achieve the usual graphical bar, and ultimately do just enough to please fans.
It’s a “great” product from a business pov, that’s why I’m saying it’s a game made for Sony and pd foremost. The unwillingness to fix the grind heavy micro transactions and the joke of the roulette wheel as “reward” for completing races are clear signs.

Absolutely on point my man. PD only does the bare minimum, their focus is making as much money as they can, not making the best game they can. It's been that way since GT5-6.

 

[Raf997]

I voted the third option since I have mixed thoughts about. On one hand it met most expectations in many things but it was a let down on others.

 

[GTEnthusiast9]

Well, you've seen more content in GT2 to be precise. GT7 categorically has more content than every other PS1 racing game except GT2. The problem with GT7 is expectation.

I highly doubt the new Forza is going to impact GT7 in any way either. Itd be nice if we did get a huge update (because why wouldn't it) but I dont see the situation with GT7 changing due to the new Forza releasing.

I suppose that depends how you define "content". For me content is laymans for gameplay or what you can actually do in the game. The ps1 racing games I played and still have to this day took a considerable amount of time to complete and even after that had great replay value to continue returning to. GT7 took me a mere few months to finish and after that there is literally little to do. 2 player hasn't been fixed in forever, the choice of events is so limiting and uninspiring and even if you force yourself through that the reward is pitiful except for 4 events.

You're probably right about forza, I hope you aren't for everyones sake, but it is exactly how things have been progressing thus far hence why rather than more cars or even tracks I'd personally rather see any combination of: custom championships, track editor, rain and day / night enabled on all tracks. These are features which I feel would increase the longevity of GT7. New cars are pointless if you have no events to use them in, and new tracks are pointless if you cannot use the cars you want in any of their events.

 

[KAlex122]

PD is interesting in the way they put time into that game. GT is still played or at least bought by a lot of "casual players". Hence the "only 13% ever played an online race" and so on.

I am sure that VR took a lot of work to get into the game but only is for a minority of players. Same with the online focus. It's for a minority and i guess it takes a lot of work. (both are niches in that game but that doesn't mean PD should not have taken this route, both thing seem to be great and have their fans out there)

With some of the updates like VR you know they had a lot to do to bring them to live. So it's even more curious how little time they take to make offline races, championships, missions and such.

So it is possible that PD really doesn't think about GT as a "game" anymore. Curious that Sony doesn't even try to push them a little in the "right" direction.

On the side:
My neighbour like many never bought GT because of what the name means to him. He thinks it's too much hard simulation for a casual. But he plays F1 and Project Cars...
I am sure this feeling comes with the name of "the real driving simulator" but also PDs sense of being super serious and super online competition focused".

 

[TheOneDonJuan]

I still haven't played since the update that changed everything and they went to months of RH - 10 Laps straight shot races. Really took the wind out of my sails. Please make the Ford GT, Mustang and Corvette relevant again PD. I don't want to drive the GTR or Supra. They're boring in real life and they're boring here.

 

[Cayit]

Maybe with the release of the new Forza Motorsport PD will do ''more'' for the Game,
adding maybe a GT League, Seasonal Events, B-Spec or more long races(30 min/60 min)...

 

[Daxus]

I think the game was underdeveloped and the further development of it, just made it more broken.
Even that isn't a constant in this game.


It would be a major improvement if they could just make that lag in the lobbies stop...

 

[Raf997]

I think the game was underdeveloped and the further development of it, just made it more broken.
Even that isn't a constant in this game.


It would be a major improvement if they could just make that lag in the lobbies stop...

I think that the cross-gen thing likely had an impact in this regard

 

[Daxus]

I think that the cross-gen thing likely had an impact in this regard

Me too and they postponed the release to do so.

I see people hoping PD ditches ps4 support, my guess is that will never happen.

 

[RacinLei]

Me too and they postponed the release to do so.

I see people hoping PD ditches ps4 support, my guess is that will never happen.

Then there will be never a solution for the laggy lobbys. At least PD should split both Consols.

 

[sonnyboychris]

What do you mean it’s designed for Sony and PD? What do these companies gain from not giving players a satisfying game when it would require very little effort?

Because they know that most gamers are stupidly loyal to a brand and will fork over $70 for a half-hearted effort.

Additionally... They know that major publications like IGN only have 30 min (exaggerating to make a point) to review a game and because they (IGN) want to retain access to the Developer, they'll say it's amazing... When it clearly isn't.

It took an act of god (historic review bmbing) for those sites to re-address their misleading reviews.


TLDR: They can put forth 20% effort into GT8 and you're going to buy it regardless.

 

[Rods]

So you're telling me they have an entire company, dedicated to only one game, putting in minimal effort and not really worried about their sole product? C'mon...

What I see is a complicated market, where racing games are more niche and are finding it harder and harder to justify the large investment made to release new games.

Most successful attempt recently either go light on content, and hardcore on experience, and focus on PC gamers, to cater to more sim-racing minded folks; or really broad in gameplay style, adding more variety, like the Forza series expanding to Horizon, which did massively well, and outshine Motorsport, catering to the masses, and deliver a good console experience.

GT is caught in the middle - it speaks to the more car loving and "simcade" audience, but it can't really go full beans into sim-racing, not without alienating the vast majority of PS owners, or sacrificing the amount of content offered.

They have tried several different approaches. They were going all in on GT Academy, and later made a lot of investment in eSports with GT Sports, which didn't offer a good enough return on investment for them to fully rely on that. They scaled back their investments in World Tour, reduced their worldwide sponsorship of different drivers, namely Igor Fraga on F3 (now more Japan-based, on GT 300 and Super Formula Lights).

With GT7, the attempt seems to have been more focused on creating a live-service type of in-game economy, which fortunately, failed massively. It's safe to assume that it made a huge dent into their longer-term planning for the game, however. Hopefully, their brand partnerships and in-game activations (think Michelin, Porsche, and especially Toyota, Mazda, Subaru) are somewhat compensating for that.

Finally, we now have the movie, which takes the messaging around the GT brand back to eSports and GT Academy. Hopefully the Barbieheimer craze passes in time for the film's release in a couple weeks, and the hype behind F1 and motorsports in general, helps push its popularity.

Either way, they are desperately trying to find avenues to market and monetize the game in a way that's appealing and financially viable, which is increasingly tough nowadays.

 

[sonnyboychris]

So you're telling me they have an entire company, dedicated to only one game, putting in minimal effort and not really worried about their sole product? C'mon...

After 6 years of development, why did they release a game that was worse (online specifically) than it's predecessor? Additionally why did they attempt to prey on their devoted fanbase (which I wasn't even a part of until GT7)?

If you made me put my tinfoil hat on, I'd be willing to wager that Sony pressed Kaz (who in turn pressed his developers) to implement launch-day currency system.

With GT7, the attempt seems to have been more focused on creating a live-service type of in-game economy, which fortunately, failed massively. It's safe to assume that it made a huge dent into their longer-term planning for the game, however. Hopefully, their brand partnerships and in-game activations (think Michelin, Porsche, and especially Toyota, Mazda, Subaru) are somewhat compensating for that.

And deservingly so. It was 💯 anti-consumer and predatory... They withheld pertinent information from reviewers so that idiots (me) would continue to feed into the excitement/hype and preorder the game.

That was purposeful and malicious. And to your point, it more than likely put a huge dent in their earnings. I'll be the 1st person to say that they deserve the consequences of their actions.

So not only did they ruin their reputation with their fans, they def nerfed whatever positive word-of-mouth that would occur to lure in casual fans. I think it's a legit question of how/if it'll impact GT8. Will people be more cautious and leery of hopping in early? I know that I will be, I won't preorder it. And I may wait a few months before buying it, just to let the dust settle.

Either way, they are desperately trying to find avenues to market and monetize the game in a way that's appealing and financially viable, which is increasingly tough nowadays.

I hear what you're saying but that comes of way too nice for me. Like PD (who's backed financially by Sony) is hurting for money? C'mon...

I'll tell you how you make your game stand apart and financially viable.

1. Communicate to your freaking consumers. Provide a roadmap, give them some idea of what to expect. Do interviews and actually address the problems.
2. Provide a game that's clearly better than the game it places.
   1. The penalty system is trash and is worse.
   2. FFB was broken and it's pales in comparison to ACC.
3. Innovate.

Check my post history. I love aspects of the game and will more than likely play it in VR until they turn the servers off. But I'm also going to be dead honest about what the game was, what it is and where it falls short. Nobody in here is getting paid by PD, painting a prettier picture won't increase our SR, so why do it? Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, I'm open to that too.

 

[Rods]

I hear what you're saying but that comes of way too nice for me. Like PD (who's backed financially by Sony) is hurting for money? C'mon...

I'm not sure how you think being "backed financially" works. Sony needs PD to be profitable, and any investment they put in (or financial backing) needs to be justified with good ROI.

After 6 years of development, why did they release a game that was worse (online specifically) than it's predecessor? Additionally why did they attempt to prey on their devoted fanbase (which I wasn't even a part of until GT7)?

That's exactly where a lot of these unfortunate, opportunistic decisions come from, it's "pressure from above". Pressure to release the game during the PS5 release window, for example, even if undercooked. Pressure to invest time and money on PSVR to help push those sales, to be more profitable via micro transactions and live service mechanisms (which has been a big push for Sony recently - think Bungie purchase and the number of live service they games announced recently).

1. Communicate to your freaking consumers. Provide a roadmap, give them some idea of what to expect. Do interviews and actually address the problems.
2. Provide a game that's clearly better than the game it places.
   1. The penalty system is trash and is worse.
   2. FFB was broken and it's pales in comparison to ACC.
3. Innovate.

And I agree with most of that. #1 can be blamed on cultural differences, but that wouldn't be a good excuse. They need to do a better job of communicating with their customers and existing fanbase. I honestly believe they are uncertain of the ideal roadmap, which prevents them from opening up and sharing that openly, risking a worse immediate reaction than a piecemeal disappointment (which is what we're getting right now).

For #2.1, I absolutely agree and I have a hard time understanding how the penalty system is worse now than it was during the height of GT Sport. #2.2 on the other hand, is a different story. They want to be accessible and not alienate beginners. I just wish they figured out a way to properly scale that, to allow for realism for those who want a better sim experience.

For #3, feel free to present them ideas. Sounds simple enough.

 

[sonnyboychris]

For #3, feel free to present them ideas. Sounds simple enough.

I've felt that they have the talent to cater to both the casual and enthusiast crowd and that trying to be all things to both crowds dooms them to mediocrity.

• Arcade Mode:
  • Allow this to be the current/casual gamer GT experience as we know it.
  • Create MP options for the casual crowd where they can cruise around tracks or maybe even do grid walks with their avatar.
• The Real Driving Simulator:
  • This mode is where they lean into their slogan. Provide a simulation system that's less forgiving. Provide FFB that's on the same level as ACC (as an example).
  • Have a MP component where I can act as your race engineer and communicate pertinent information to U. This would be great for us PSVR users. But make it an optional thing, as to not split the userbase.
  • Utilize some of the great telemetry that the game tracks and display it to us.

I guess part of the reason why I think the game is half-assed is because it's just more of the same formula. It's a great formula at it's core but they should have it mastered by now if it's all they're going to do.

I'd be more forgiving of its state at launch/now if the game was doing something it hasn't done since the original game in 1998. And if it wasn't full of a bunch of fluff (Hagerty) to mask terrible business practices. What I want out of a videogame is a realistic take on capitalism to remind me that I can't afford virtual cars no more than I can IRL lol.

 

[Rods]

I've felt that they have the talent to cater to both the casual and enthusiast crowd and that trying to be all things to both crowds dooms them to mediocrity.

• Arcade Mode:
  • Allow this to be the current/casual gamer GT experience as we know it.
  • Create MP options for the casual crowd where they can cruise around tracks or maybe even do grid walks with their avatar.
• The Real Driving Simulator:
  • This mode is where they lean into their slogan. Provide a simulation system that's less forgiving. Provide FFB that's on the same level as ACC (as an example).
  • Have a MP component where I can act as your race engineer and communicate pertinent information to U. This would be great for us PSVR users. But make it an optional thing, as to not split the userbase.
  • Utilize some of the great telemetry that the game tracks and display it to us.

I guess part of the reason why I think the game is half-assed is because it's just more of the same formula. It's a great formula at it's core but they should have it mastered by now if it's all they're going to do.

I'd be more forgiving of its state at launch/now if the game was doing something it hasn't done since the original game in 1998. And if it wasn't full of a bunch of fluff (Hagerty) to mask terrible business practices. What I want out of a videogame is a realistic take on capitalism to remind me that I can't afford virtual cars no more than I can IRL lol.

I thought #3 was innovate. You just critiqued, mate. The only innovation there is the MP component, but that's far from a game changer, and something very similar to what WRC has already done, to very limited success.

 

[sonnyboychris]

I thought #3 was innovate. You just critiqued, mate. The only innovation there is the MP component, but that's far from a game changer, and something very similar to what WRC has already done, to very limited success.

You must not be aware that the word innovate has more than one definition, allow me help...

: to make changes : do something in a new way

make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products.

Splitting GT into two different games (under one roof) by pushing into the more hardcore sim arena, while leaving the existing game in-tact and moving to the Arcade side is by definition (see above) innovative RELATIVE to how the game has been and currently is structured.

I answered the question that you posed to me, feel free to comment on it instead of trying to have a "gotcha" moment. PD/GT catering to both the sim-cade and sim crowd would be a complete shift for them and there's no other game in the console space that does that.

 

[Rods]

You must not be aware that the word innovate has more than one definition, allow me help...




Splitting GT into two different games (under one roof) by pushing into the more hardcore sim arena, while leaving the existing game in-tact and moving to the Arcade side is by definition (see above) innovative RELATIVE to how the game has been and currently is structured.

I answered the question that you posed to me, feel free to comment on it instead of trying to have a "gotcha" moment. PD/GT catering to both the sim-cade and sim crowd would be a complete shift for them and there's no other game in the console space that does that.

I'm not gonna get caught up in the definition of innovate, but I stand by my comment after reading your quick dictionary check.

 

[sonnyboychris]

I'm not gonna get caught up in the definition of innovate, but I stand by my comment after reading your quick dictionary check.

There's nothing to get "caught up" in... That's what the word means, the word YOU chose.

But yeah, don't let facts get in the way of conversation lol.

 

[appu]

PD/GT catering to both the sim-cade and sim crowd would be a complete shift for them and there's no other game in the console space that does that.

1. DiRT and DiRT Rally
2. Assetto Corsa and Competizione

No?

 

[GTEnthusiast9]

I feel this video is a relevant contribution to this discussion... in fact most of the videos in this guy's channel are. Enjoy all

 

[sonnyboychris]

1. DiRT and DiRT Rally
2. Assetto Corsa and Competizione

No?

I could be very well mistaken, and please correct me if I'm wrong but AC and ACC are two separate games. Meaning, you have to purchase them individually.

The minor stipulation that I made (and may not have been clear) was that arcade mode (current GT7) and sim mode would be on one disc. I think I used the term "under one roof", which isn't clear.

I'm not familiar with DiRT and DiRT Rally though. I stand corrected if that is the case!

 

[appu]

The minor stipulation that I made (and may not have been clear) was that arcade mode (current GT7) and sim mode would be on one disc. I think I used the term "under one roof", which isn't clear.

Dirt and Dirt Rally are also separate game.

You're right that there is no single game right now which has separate arcade and sim mode. Judging by gaming history, it is not going to happen either. Two main points:
1. DiRT franchise used to have rallycross and rally in one game. The two modes got split. Dirt franchise focused on arcade rallycross. Dirt Rally franchise initially focused on sim rally, later added sim rallycross as well.
2. Older F1 games and some other games like Midtown Madness used to have realism slider, to make the game arcade, simcade, or sim depending on a player's preference. Such a slider is now dead in games.

Given these two points, if PD ever makes arcade and sim versions, they will likely make two different games.

 

[sonnyboychris]

Dirt and Dirt Rally are also separate game.

You're right that there is no single game right now which has separate arcade and sim mode. Judging by gaming history, it is not going to happen either. Two main points:
1. DiRT franchise used to have rallycross and rally in one game. The two modes got split. Dirt franchise focused on arcade rallycross. Dirt Rally franchise initially focused on sim rally, later added sim rallycross as well.
2. Older F1 games and some other games like Midtown Madness used to have realism slider, to make the game arcade, simcade, or sim depending on a player's preference. Such a slider is now dead in games.

Given these two points, if PD ever makes arcade and sim versions, they will likely make two different games.

I totally agree with you. I only thought of that idea because another poster asked me to provide an innovative idea that PD could adopt. That was just my solution for how they could appease their historical fanbase and what appears to be a burgeoning hardcore sim fanbase who wants more out of the game.

 

[FrankieStail]

Would be an idea if they were to spin gt sport into a more sim focused sibling to the main series, with all the cars available without grinding requred.

No need for any other game modes other than online multiplayer and custom race single player, perhaps with custom championships.

Next to no extra work required for pd except for a more advanced multi point tyre model with tyre pressures which would be of benefit to both titles.

 

[Chris30]

I will say this, ever since they have changed the car physics in the CE, now most of the gold times are 75% harder to achieve, I have to work 20 times as hard now as I did before that update PD did. I was really mad/disappointed in gt6, so bad I quit playing it for 5 years until Summer 2021, that's when I found gt Sport and got hooked on it. And the Sport mode is crap half the time too, cause I'll lead a race and someone sideswipes/pushes me off course.

There has to be more extensive lobbies where us lower ranked drivers can race so we can get our skills up. I've only earned 1 gold medal and that was in the Autopolis Alphard TT back last early spring.

 

[whisperwin]

I Don't know if I'm the only one feeling this way, but GT7 is continuously getting more dissapointing. This game has had almost a decade to be developed and yet I am sitting here coming up on a year after release and There's so much missing still. We are missing cars that they already have good models for (07 Mitsubishi Evo IX, 04 Subaru WRX STI, Lexus LFA, Aston Martin DB9, etc.) and to add salt to the wound, tghey just keep updating us with 2-3 cars that should have been in the game since day 1. Does anyone remember the custom in car gauges from GT6? where'd they go? Tacky? sure, But cool? absolutely. What about the custom track creator? where did that go? What about the extreme lack of single player events? I'm surely not the only one who can remember countless hours of single player races to keep you busy. I'm not here expecting 1300+ cars and every track known to man, But this game has fallen very very short for 7 years of potential developement time. This game feels more like something they threw together in maybe, just maybe, a maximum of 2 years. I just don't think there's any excuse for how lack luster this game is at the moment. It's not The quality I expect and know from a Gran Turismo Title.

What's everyone's thoughts?

Hey, I totally get where you're coming from! It's been a crazy long wait for GT7, and it's frustrating when you see stuff missing that should have been there from the start. Like seriously, where are some of those cool cars we've been dreaming of, and what happened to those wicked custom in-car gauges from GT6? They were kinda tacky but so damn cool!

And don't even get me started on the custom track creator! That was a total blast, and it's a bummer that they left it out. Plus, the lack of single-player events is a real letdown. Remember all those hours we used to spend racing in single-player mode? Good times, man!

I know we can't expect a gazillion cars and tracks, but after all these years of waiting, you'd think the game would be more polished. It feels like they rushed it out or something, and that's just not what we expect from a Gran Turismo game. I'm sure others feel the same way too!

 

[Chris30]

I hate to bump this thread, but what other reasons would you say gt7 did not meet it's expectations from others? I know one is the dumb AI, sometimes they will do weird things in any custom, arcade or campaign race. It bothers me but I'm coping with it on a daily basis.

 

[Ande3200]

Things pd could really work to improve and make a lot better is
1 ai, i know sophy is just in beta but hopefully that means we could get something better in future, know the ai is not exactly good,
2 single player career could be massivly improved, add more championchips, more high paying races or endurance races, more types of races, more chili pepper races would be good, feels like pd waiting for the ai to be more complete before they even put effort here, i sadly dont see it change much for gt7 at this point. Witch is a shame because the pontential has never been greter. Hopefully gt8 can have a fully integreted sophy ai with a more classic career mode we use to have with qualifying.
3 rework the invites, its clearly a very flawed system,

Still as a hole gt7 have up their game in many areas,
And its easy to forget how flawed even the older titles was.