SNAIL - Survivor Series #4 - Next Event TBA

[SAMHAIN85]

SNAILRACING.ORG

Presents

​

• A series of short sprint races where the last place finisher(s) in each race is "knocked out".
• We start the next race with everyone but the last place finisher(s) from the previous race.
• Once there are only 2 drivers left, the stage is set for an epic 1v1 match race/prize fight.
• The races will be short enough where you wont get bored spectating if you get knocked out.
• Everyone in the same cars, but with a BOP based on skill level. The goal will be to have everyone be capable of running the same laptimes (ie. D3 guys run full hp, D2 less hp, D1 even less)
• We can use a previously run SNAIL combo for our first go, since we have race data from it which will help with testing/de-tuning/figuring out who gets what hp/weight/tires.

This is meant to be a fun yet competitive night of racing. A Last Man Standing/King of The Hill event.

Event #1 @SAMHAIN85

Event #2 @THRASH

Event #3 @LightningFox

​

 

[SAMHAIN85]

Survivor Series Event #3

Date: Friday July 19th 9PM EST

Car: Renault Megane Trophy '11
Track: Maggiore West

Registration deadline for this event is Friday July 5th 11:59PM EST (closed)

To join: Post in this thread and I will PM you your Time Trial instructions

Interest list:

1. @SAMHAIN85 👍
2. @Nick Cannella 👍
3. @TexasJDC 👍
4. @Neutty 👍
5. @Herimopp89 👍
6. @stelephant 👍
7. @racingchamp30 👍
8. @Mully465 👍
9. @Kgffy
10. @Fudman420 👍
11. @THRASH 👍
12. @Jw_wk1010 👍
13. @GTP_Guido 👍
14. @Moby45 👍
15. @Grandpa Money 👍
16. @Rob Brown 👍
17. @WanganGhost 👍
18. @JLBowler 👍
19. @Ryan Kirk 👍
20. @Rednose58 👍
21. @Phlano099 👍
22. @Raw10_2u 👍
23. @TomMang_68 👍
24. @Turdburgerlar 👍
25. @Drifter1171 👍
26. @IDreamInGT3 👍
27. @Jacob Falcon
28. @Nascarcory 👍
29. @Timlour 👍
30. @LightningFox 👍
31. @TTTtothetop
32. @MikeGrove 👍
33. @basswerks1
34. @RacingOtaku86 👍
35. TTG_Gouletzky


👍 = Time Trial submitted
= Scapes photo submitted


Specs:




Testing Instructions:

If your name is in green - use that line

​

Spoiler

Make sure you own the Renault Sport Mégane Trophy '11 (GR4)

(NOT:
Renault Sport Megane (GR4)
or
Renault Sport R.S. Trophy 2011 (N300))

1. Create an online lobby

2. Use the settings below. It will be best to limit the Lobby to 2 max, and/or set to friends only. That way you can get in as many clean accurate laps as possible without having to worry about randoms on track.

3. "Enter" and go into the tuning page. Increase the power to Level 3 (with mileage points) and then use the "specs" google sheet above to find your
Power %
Weight %
Tire Compound


4. Hop on track and run as many laps as you want with 100% effort. Preferably at least 10. Keep the 'splits' tab open as you run these laps

5. After 10 or so laps post in the thread:

• Fastest Lap
• Average Lap (best guess)
• Optimal Lap

​

Spoiler: Event #2

Survivor Series Event #2

Friday November 30 2018
Qualifying: 9:00PM EST
Heat #1: 9:30PM EST

Spoiler: Event #2

​

​

​

TOYOTA S-FR RACING CONCEPT 2016
Circuit de Sainte-Croix - B II

Raced on: 8/12 8/19 8/26 9/9
Car chosen by @stelephant
Track chosen by @gulfvet67 ​

​

​

Entries (unlimited):

1. @SAMHAIN85
2. @Neutty
3. @Rednose58
4. @TomMang_68
5. @racingchamp30
6. @stelephant
7. @Nick Cannella
8. @Herimopp89
9. @THRASH
10. @Jw_wk1010
11. @basswerks1
12. @TexasJDC
13. @FREEREVN
14. @Rob Brown
15. @Sean Renon
16. @Raw10_2u
17. @MajorBlixem
18. @RacingOtaku86
19. @DublDee
20. @Bologna_Duc
21. @Mully465

Interested:
@Hellbringer69
@spidermonkey
@luke norris
@MikeGrove

Spoiler: Event #1 info

Friday June 22nd
Lobby Opens at 9:00PM EST
First come first served for qualifying


ALFA ROMEO 4C GR 4
@
Dragon Trail Gardens
(SNAIL combo raced on:
5/6/18 - 5/13/18 - 5/20/18)
Chosen by @whatbadgerseat

Target Lap Time: 1:50.000

(thanks @JamCar0ne and @Tecticles)

We're official!

(thanks for the decal @Maninashed and

Links to decals:

Spoiler

https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gtsport/user/notifications/decal/1530859/5765183740830581760

A rough draft of how I see the night going (based off 3 lap / 5ish minute races/heats and a total of 19 entries):

Spoiler

Qualify 9:00-9:30EST
Time of day: 6:30 clear
Grid Fastest First

Heat 1 (3laps)
Time of day: 6:30 clear
16 entries
Top 13 survive (3 KO's)

Heat 2 (3laps)
Time of day: 8:00 fine weather
16 entries (3 stand bys)
Top 13 survive (3 KO's)

Heat 3 (3laps)
Time of day: 10:00 fine weather
13 entries
Top 10 survive (3 KO's)

Heat 4 (3laps)
Time of day: 13:00 cloudy
10 entries
Top 7 survive (3 KO's)

10 min break

Heat 5 (3laps)
Time of day: 16:30 clear
7 entries
Top 4 survive (3 KO's)

Heat 6 (3laps)
Time of day: 17:00 clear
4 entries
2 survive (2 KO's)

GRAND FINALS (6laps)
Time of day: 18:30 fine weather
2 entries
1 winner (1 KO)

[/spoiler]

 

[SAMHAIN85]

Spoiler: Event #1 Race Info

Friday June 22nd
Lobby Opens at 9:00PM EST
First come first served for qualifying

ALFA ROMEO 4C GR 4
@
Dragon Trail Gardens
(SNAIL combo raced on:
5/6/18 - 5/13/18 - 5/20/18)
Chosen by @whatbadgerseat

Target Lap Time: 1:50.000

Spoiler: Event #1 Entries

Entry list/Grid walk

Final specs:

Spoiler: Event #1 Results

SNAIL SURVIVOR SERIES EVENT #1

RESULTS

GRAND FINALS (6laps):



1st: SAMHAIN85 (11:07.212)
Eliminated:
2nd: Mully465


Heat #5 (3laps):

1st: Mully465 (5:36.614)
2nd: SAMHAIN85

Eliminated:
3rd: Stelephant
4th: JamCar0ne
5th: TheRaceReviewer


Heat #4 (3laps):​

1st: Stelephant (5:40.110)

2nd: Mully465​

3rd: TheRaceReviewer​

4th: SAMHAIN85​

5th: JamCar0ne​

​

Eliminated:​

6th: Grandpas_Money​

7th: FREEREVN​

8th: nog3861​

​

​

Heat #3 (3laps):​

​

1st: FREEREVN (5:37.912)​

2nd: nog3861​

3rd: TheRaceReviewer​

4th: JamCar0ne​

5th: Stelephant​

6th: Mully465​

7th: Grandpas_money​

8th: SAMHAIN85​

​

Eliminated:​

9th: OMG_mang​

10th: BradESPN​

11th: DesertPenguin09 (DQ)​

​

​

Heat #2 (3laps):​

​

1st: nog3861 (5:37.139)​

2nd: FREEREVN​

3rd: JamCar0ne​

4th: TheRaceReviewer​

5th: Stelephant​

6th: Mully465​

7th: OMG_mang​

8th: DesertPenguin09​

9th: Grandpas_Money (stand-by)​

10th: SAMHAIN85​

11th: BradESPN​

Eliminated:​

12th: x_SIK_PUPPY_x​

13th: TexasmostHated​

14th: Rednose58​

​

​

Heat #1 (3laps):​

​

1st: nog3861 (5:38.626)​

2nd: JamCar0ne​

3rd: FREEREVN​

4th: Stelephant​

5th: Mully465​

6th: Rednose58​

7th: TheRaceReviewer​

8th: DesertPenguin09​

9th: x_SIK_PUPPY_x​

10th: SAMHAIN85​

11th: TexasmostHated​

12th: BradESPN​

13th: OMG_mang​

Eliminated:​

14th: Raw10_2u​

15th: Neuttyy​

16th: RacingOtaku86​

 

[TexasJDC]

Interested seems like alot of fun I could give it a go

 

[DesertPenguin]

Sounds cool. I remember old arcade racers having elimination races where the last driver on each lap would be eliminated. Your way sounds cool but what if we have a full room. That means 15 sprint races right? How long would they be?

 

[stelephant]

Sounds like a great time. I love these "special events", they really add a nice element of variety with the SNAIL regular events. I am working on an idea myself, but will be testing after I am done with work this week before putting it out there.

 

[SAMHAIN85]

If we have a full room we can adjust how many get knocked out each race. Only 1 elimination per race would take way too long, so we could do a series of 1,2,3 eliminations per race.

Yes if you get knocked out in the first race your night is over, but thats the name of the game. Win (or dont finish last) and you're in. Its like a Tournament.

Depending how long this goes, we could run a series of these in one night.

 

[FREEREVN]

SNAIL "Knock Out" SERIES


View attachment 741301


Interest Thread​

• A series of short sprint races where the last place finisher in each race is "knocked out".
• We start the next race with everyone but the last place finisher from the previous race.
• Once there are only 2 drivers left, the stage is set for an epic 1v1 match race/prize fight.
• The races will be short enough where you wont get bored spectating if you get knocked out.
• Everyone in the same cars, but with a BOP based on Division. The goal will be to have everyone be capable of running the same laptimes (ie. D3 guys run full hp, D2 less hp, D1 even less)
• We can use a previously run SNAIL combo for our first go, since we have race data from it which will help with testing/de-tuning/figuring out who gets what HP.

This is meant to be a fun yet competitive night of racing. A Last Man Standing/King of The Hill event. If theres enough interest we can start to look at combos and do some testing.

​

This sounds very interesting

 

[SAMHAIN85]

I really want to make sure its an even field, and since not everyone in the same division runs the same pace, we will have to do some serious testing. For example a D1 handicap of -50hp wouldnt work since its not a one size fits all cap. Will break it down into tiers where 3-5 guys are in different HP brackets that we know are of equal skill.

D3 race data and laptimes are a good place to start, and then work down from there.

If anyone has any suggestions for a combo we've run recently post it.

 

[DesertPenguin]

How about the Aston Gr. 3 at Yamagiwa

 

[Tecticles]

What about instead of reducing HP, using different tire compounds. I can't say for all combo's but for a lot of them there is a couple second difference between the types of tires. Typically also there is generally a couple second difference between divisions as well.

As for the combo, Gr 4 4c at Dragon trail gardens made for fun racing to me.

 

[SAMHAIN85]

What about instead of reducing HP, using different tire compounds

Lets say for example:

D1- SH
D2 - SM
D3 - SS

While that could work - the problem is not everyone in each division is going to run the same lap times. The guys in the lower tier of a division will be at a disadvantage.

If we adjust HP we can get the handicaps just right for everyone.

 

[SAMHAIN85]

Tenative Date:
Friday June 22, 2018
Lobby opens @9PM EST

 

[Rednose58]

Equalizing the field is very tricky and we have tried a number of things , some not successful and some a little better.

It is logical, but the fact is that the faster guys get faster lap times because they spend less time in the corners. The more corners - the bigger the gap.

So, the best way to add time in the corner is to make the tires less grippy or make the car heavier, or both. With GTS you can't have a mixture of Race/Sports/Comfort Tires. On some tracks you may not be able to slow down the faster guy enough with SH vs SS tires, so you may need to add a little weight too.

Lower horsepower slows you down on the straight, not the corners. If you want to equalize using HP, then you will have to be track specific. The more corners you have the bigger the HP gap between slow and fast guys. But then with longer straights you may need to close the gap a bit. e.g. at Monza the HP delta should be less than what it could be at one of the Dragon Trail circuits.

My recommendation is to try and have similar straight line speeds and try to equalize corning speed with less grip and more weight as per the requirements of the track. The best way to test is to run your own lap times to understand the effect. Then apply that result to the field.

 

[SAMHAIN85]

I never even thought about adding weight. You've got way more experience at this than I do Red, I'll be looking to you for advice to make this run as smooth as possible.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Heck, I coulda told you weight helps too but Red beat me to it and in a way more elaborate way. Hope to see this come to fruition. 👍

 

[Rednose58]

We can take a known combo with lots of Data e.g. ALFA ROMEO 4C GR.4 @ Dragon Trail - Gardens

D1 lap times: mid 1:44 to mid 1:46
D2 Lap times: low 1:45 to mid 1:47
D3 Lap times: mid 1:46 to mid 1:49

So, it will be ineffective to classify the drivers by division. You will have to rank them. Maybe use the last Snail Invitational rankings as a guideline to rank the drivers and then divide them all up into 3 or 4 groups and then apply handicaps taking your test results in mind. May take a bit to prepare, but you have a month to decide and test a combo. You can choose one that is similar to but not exactly the same as a Sunday Combo.

The difficult, but not impossible part is to rank the drivers by their fast lap capability.

Maybe the process will be something like this:
1. Choose a combo (similar to one that ran on Sunday nights)
2. Test and see how it compares to the Sunday combo.
3. Look at the top three or five fasts times in D1 and the slowest 3 or 5 times in D3 and determine the spread (Say 4.5 seconds)
4. Decide how many groups are required (Say 4 - Gr A, B, C, D)
5. Based on the spread and the actual lap times you achieve with this combo determine a target lap time.
6. Test different tires (and weights if necessary) and see what you need to slow yourself down - See No 7 below.
7. Add those incremental handicaps to Groups

- Gr A - No handicap
- Gr B - Tires and or weight that has a 0.5-1.5 sec impact
- Gr C - Tires and or weight that has a 2-3 sec impact
- Gr D - Tires and or weight that has a 3.5-4.5 sec impact​

8. Rank the Snail Community and divide them into the 4 groups. If a person didn't race the reference combo, then assign him to a group based on where you know he will fit in.
9. Post the groupings and car specs in the thread. If a person shows up on race night he has to adjust his car to the specs for the group he has been assigned to.

..... Don't spin off or bump a buddy off the track - it will nullify all this theoretical bull-crap .......

 

[Marcus Garvey]

Going to be tough. Each driver, even within a division, has their own strengths and weaknesses. You are going to have to create parity by individualising each driver's vehicle for each course. There is a lot of info out there on the pitfalls and the perils of parity racing that may help you drill down your process for this specific event a bit, however it will definitely be an uphill battle IMO. That, and because you are making changes to the way cars behave and drivers adapt at different paces; you may find in testing and practice a certain level of parity, only to find that after a little more track time some drivers gain whole seconds and others little or none.

Like parity racing, I see the potential for this to be a great low-stress type of an event. I hope it works out well. 👍

 

[SAMHAIN85]

you may find in testing and practice a certain level of parity, only to find that after a little more track time some drivers gain whole seconds and others little or none.

Which is why I think we will run a popular combo that already has been used in SNAIL with plenty of data to look at. I know the car characteristics will be changing once we throw in a monkey wrench (adjust hp/weight), but it shouldn't be THAT drastic of a change. We should all have plenty of past experience with the combo to make up for the change.

I remember when we did JLBowlers Index Racing. People were running faster times than their benchmark times, simply because as the race went on they became faster the more track experience they got. I'm hoping a lot of us will have already hit that peak before race night, since it will be a combo we have already raced on Sunday(s).

I will come up with tiers/groups and ask anyone that is interested in this event to put in 5-10 honest laps with specific specs and see what kind of times they're hitting.

 

[Nick Cannella]

Invites:

@Rednose58 @Nicktune @src_ej6 @MikeGrove @aLmk @GTPvw_slc @nmcp1 @Grandpa Money @Neutty @keepitsteady @thracerviewr @spidermonkey @socalnatv @todally_lit @MSgtGunny @FREEREVN @Spazinator895 @Wolfsatz @llNovall @Rob Brown @BradESPN @Hanable @DublDee @TVV0_ @Raw10_2u @TEX36 @vsfit @Kgffy @MajorBlixem @TomMang_68 @RacingOtaku86 @Freeryd503 @Kgeldersma @whatbadgerseat @Oshawa-Joe @rprphoto @Harry Rowley @BassMaestro @soundtiger95 @Iceslot @Todd Lewis @JLBowler @CoachMK21 @Mully465 @Adramike @racingchamp30 @JamCar0ne @basswerks1 @TBongX @stelephant @Die_Birdy_Die @TexasJDC @Tecticles @Alexrider007 @ChauncyMarsh @gulfvet67 @BLAZE72764 @DesertPenguin @pubason @SkidMarkQueen @Tim Gamber @aerolite @Mike Lobban @Gr8_Lakes @McTrucker @Lessen @Zii1993 @SGETI @Falango @Rallywagon @Jakedog23 @RobbiefromBC
@Matman03 @Sander 001

Sounds like fun and a great idea, however, I was left off the invite list????

 

[SAMHAIN85]

Sorry Nick! I copied that list from the C&M thread and thought I added everyone. Of course you're invited (and anyone else in SNAIL that I might've missed)

 

[thracerviewr]

Sounds like fun, I'm in!

 

[Mully465]

 

[TomMang_68]

Hey - to add an element of fun for those “watching” perhaps we can stream this event and have people place bets on the who may win using their collected $hells ?!

 

[spidermonkey]

While it seems to my wife all my nights are spent racing I will attempt to be there but cant promise anything. @BradESPN my wife is bringing home a new family member friday night frug - half french bulldog/pug so this may take precedence over racing. Saying Im a little excited would be an understatement.

 

[SAMHAIN85]

Hey - to add an element of fun for those “watching” perhaps we can stream this event and have people place bets on the who may win using their collected $hells ?!

Yep there will definitely be some streaming taking place. And since it doesn't really matter who wins each "heat", all the action will be in the back of the field where the knockouts will happen. Much easier to keep track of as the broadcaster instead of having to monitor the entire field.

As for your $hell betting - I'm all for that. @zer05ive knows this all too well

Edit: As far as the race procedure goes, since we *should* be in evenly matched machines, we will run a short qualifier to determine the starting order for Heat 1. The rest of the night will be set to Fastest First. While Reverse Grid could be interesting - I could see it causing problems. No one will want to win the race/heat, since they will be severly handicapped the following race starting in last. So there might be a bottle neck of cars at the start/finish line of the last lap since no one wants to cross the line first. That could get ugly.

 

[DesertPenguin]

How do you want to handle the combo selection week to week? A simplified version of the Sunday system with the Top 3 finishers picking things? Could even be just top 2 or even simpler the overall winner decides everything. Many options there.

 

[stelephant]

While it seems to my wife all my nights are spent racing I will attempt to be there but cant promise anything. @BradESPN my wife is bringing home a new family member friday night frug - half french bulldog/pug so this may take precedence over racing. Saying Im a little excited would be an understatement.
View attachment 741379

Congrats on the addition to the family!

 

[basswerks1]

Awesome idea I was a fan of index racing. This sounds like fun

 

[SAMHAIN85]

How do you want to handle the combo selection week to week?

This isn't going to be a weekly thing. We'll see how this first event does and then go from there. I was thinking it'd be like a C&M/Invitational, but if people enjoy it and the interest is there we can look to run it more often. Also depends how long it takes to test cars to get them evenly matched for everyone. A D3 driver should have just a good of a shot to win this as a D1