- 1,286
- Devon UK
Yeah but what about us poor saps with partners and children. I'm lucky if I get 10 laps a day.
So I'm trying do drive clean! I am done!
- Thread starter slotcarrod
- 113 comments
- 16,539 views
Yeah but what about us poor saps with partners and children. I'm lucky if I get 10 laps a day.
- 780
- United States
- 276
- Belo Horizonte
@Imari Senna never crashed anyone besides Prost in that race in 90. He always drove cleanly during his years at F1, he was at times ruthless and relentless, of course, but clean.
Do you wanna know why he crashed Prost? Because Ballestre took the title away from him and gave it to Prost in the previous year when Prost crashed Senna when the latter was trying to overtake him.
Not only that, in 90 after the qualification, Ballestre didn't answer Senna's request of changing his starting position to the clean side of the track. Senna was pole position and Prost, second, was in the clean side of the track leaving Senna on the dirty side, where there was no grip. Senna himself answered during an interview in our country that he took Prost out of the race as a means of retaliation against FIA for they were "screwing" him over in his eyes.
Just a clarification, as some people keep using this to unjustly demerit Senna.
Do you wanna know why he crashed Prost? Because Ballestre took the title away from him and gave it to Prost in the previous year when Prost crashed Senna when the latter was trying to overtake him.
Not only that, in 90 after the qualification, Ballestre didn't answer Senna's request of changing his starting position to the clean side of the track. Senna was pole position and Prost, second, was in the clean side of the track leaving Senna on the dirty side, where there was no grip. Senna himself answered during an interview in our country that he took Prost out of the race as a means of retaliation against FIA for they were "screwing" him over in his eyes.
Just a clarification, as some people keep using this to unjustly demerit Senna.
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
I know exactly what happened. Senna never crashed anyone out, except for that one time that he crashed someone out. The one that he later tried to justify as "just going for a gap", and the one that people continue to try and use as an example of good clean racing.
Taking Prost out as retaliation against the FIA is just insane. Prost isn't the FIA. He was actually one of the more vocal against the FIA and it's BS. Senna put someone's life in danger, over an argument he had with someone else entirely.
You can explain that away to yourself however you want, but it remains that it happened and it was entirely intentional on Senna's part. He meant to crash Prost out and he did. That's not unjust. Those were his actions. You don't get to erase them from history just because he had a movie made about him.
Once is once too many, if you ask me. You either drive clean or you don't. It's not acceptable to crash people out because you're having a bad day. It's awfully easy to be clean when you're half a lap in the lead, but it's what you do when the chips are down that counts. I think if faced between the choice of losing a World Championship title and crashing someone out, I know what I hope a sportsman would do.
It's what we all hope that people would do online in GTS. I suspect you wouldn't find it acceptable for me to crash you out just because I'd had a fight with my husband. So why is it different for Senna? Why can we not just say "that Senna guy, incredible driver and generally great guy but that stuff he pulled in 1990 was some Class A pure bred organic artisanal horse bollocks and they should have DQ'd him like any other crasher"?
P.S. Hey, look! Another Brazilian flag! What are the odds?
About 1 in 1, I'd say.
- 780
- United States
- 276
- Belo Horizonte
@Imari It's fair when you mention that Senna used the "going for a gap" as an excuse for that particular occasion, and Senna was wrong, he knew that and appologized to Stewart himself later.
But him taking out Prost was in no means wrong. Prost did the same to him in 89, was out of the race. Senna miraculously returned to the pits, rejoined and won the race. Ballestre unjustly disqualified him and gave the title to Prost, Ballestre himself admitted before his death.
When you have the president of the FIA clearly favoring his french compatriot, did you expect Senna to simply bow his head and accept it as if it was nothing. We should be praising his attitude, he stood up against the system and won, for God's sake.
Ron Dennis stated that Senna was so in disbelief after what happened in 89 that he had quit F1 and Dennis had an awful time trying to convince him back. He was simply not letting the same thing happen again.
But him taking out Prost was in no means wrong. Prost did the same to him in 89, was out of the race. Senna miraculously returned to the pits, rejoined and won the race. Ballestre unjustly disqualified him and gave the title to Prost, Ballestre himself admitted before his death.
When you have the president of the FIA clearly favoring his french compatriot, did you expect Senna to simply bow his head and accept it as if it was nothing. We should be praising his attitude, he stood up against the system and won, for God's sake.
Ron Dennis stated that Senna was so in disbelief after what happened in 89 that he had quit F1 and Dennis had an awful time trying to convince him back. He was simply not letting the same thing happen again.
- 489
- United States
He is going to take advantage of CoD's amazing offline content of course.
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Exactly.
Hold up. Lying about the reasons for what he did was wrong, but actually crashing into another driver wasn't? Oh, I'm dying to see how you're going to justify this one.
Yes. And what Prost did in '89 was wrong also. What Balestre did was extra super double wrong, and I've already stated in this thread where I hope he ends up in the afterlife.
No. He absolutely shouldn't have just done nothing. But that's wasn't the only two options available to him. I expected him to fight it in the appropriate arena, against the appropriate opponent. Use the press. Use the fans. Use the driver's unions, or the safety reformers, or any of the dozens of other groups that would have been on his side in a fight against he FIA.
Don't take it out on other drivers on the track. They're not the FIA. Even if you accept that he had a reasonable grief with Prost, intentionally crashing him out on the first corner is incredibly dangerous and ridiculously childish. You did see the bit where a guy died in a very similar crash at that corner just a couple of years later, right?
No, he really didn't. He proved that a broken system was broken, and that the FIA would let a driver win a championship even after intentionally crashing out another competitor on live television. I mean, how much more corrupt and unjust can you get?
He proved that he was a petulant child that would throw his toys out of the pram and risk the lives of others if he didn't get his way, no matter how justified his requests might be. Don't get me wrong, the FIA screwed him over well and good. It's totally not a justification for crashing into someone intentionally.
Max Mosley stood up against the system and won. He got rid of a large amount of the corruption and bollocks that was dragging the FIA down. Senna did nothing but sully his own good name.
As I've said, 1989 was wrong as well. It's not a case of one being wrong and one being right. They were both wrong. Prost should have been punished, and Senna should at best have had a minor penalty for going through the chicane but probably nothing. The championship in 89 should have been his.
None of that is justification though. There's nothing in the F1 rulebook that says for every time a driver crashes into you, you can crash into him. "He did it to me first" is not an excuse, especially not when you're playing with other people's lives. Most of us learn this as children. You apparently haven't.
And so I take it that you're cool with me crashing into you whenever stuff doesn't go my way outside of the game then? Good to know.
- 361
- Calgary
- slotcarrod
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
It isn't a debate so much as blind devotion and the inability to see flaws in your hero. Kind of like a few people around here when it comes to a certain game
- 780
- United States
It isn't a debate so much as blind devotion and the inability to see flaws in your hero. Kind of like a few people around here when it comes to a certain game
Well, GT Sport isn't even in my top 10 games of all time let alone my favorite. It is my favorite racing game out right now though, but it does have some flaws. I just choose to love it warts and all.
- 1,068
- Raleigh, NC
- booch16
If you race often and try to be clean I'm.not sure why your rating would go down so badly. I'm not exactly sure how SR is calculated, but if a circuit has 4 sectors and you race clean 3/4 sectors every lap you should have a net positive SR. Maybe a clean lap gives you a bonus. So if you have only played a little bit, just hold your breath and keep.playing. your SR will go up, imo.
- 1,396
- Tennessee
- tnfedexman
0/4
Let everybody pass, lagged behind and stayed on track. No clean credit.
Let everybody pass, lagged behind and stayed on track. No clean credit.
- 494
- Atlanta, GA
- eDirtyTati
How would this be a sim if people weren't allowed to have setups in races. What GT3 or GT4 leagues are disallowing teams to set their cars up? Even spec racing series allow this. Setup isn't always about being faster, it's also about being comfortable with the car. If setups are a hangup for you, perhaps you should stick to AI races or Need for Speed.
- 1,396
- Tennessee
- tnfedexman
some d-bag just brake-checked me in the final turn on lap 4 .
0/6 clean race attempts.
0/6 clean race attempts.
- 1,068
- Raleigh, NC
- booch16
To be fair, the tuning in past GT games has been pretty silly. I remember all kinds of ridiculous setups with wacky gearing, and impossible aero settings essentially breaking the game. The tunes I'm talking about were so far removed from reality that, IMO, it kind of ruined the game for a while.
- 102
- Netherlands
- Laurel_London
Haha, I visualized this in my mind while reading. Funny, indeed.I'm currently yo-yoing between C and B and I know when I'm going to get rammed! Even if I don't fight too hard because they have a run on me they still think they need to push me off! You see them in your mirrors as you approach a braking point and just know they're fully intending on barging past with no intention of a clean pass.
Some people defend way too aggressively too, did smile earlier though. Closing in on someone I moved towards the inside before straightening back up - they dived across to cover the inside and I tootled past as they flew off the track!
Perhaps, no, I will play GT Sport and tweet at Kaz to ban setups for Sport Mode and only enable it for online lobbies. As I'm a proponent of fair racing.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I was in a Cappuccino RM league and we had an oval race at Indy. I think I was lapping in the low 1:03's, wide open the whole lap with minimum aero. Along comes someone running in the lows 1:01's
, just waltzing away from me on the straights in practice. Turns out the best way to tune was to raise the front end as high as possible and the back as low as possible. Totally ridiculous setup but good for more than a second and a half on circuit with no braking
- 1,068
- Raleigh, NC
- booch16
Exactly!I was in a Cappuccino RM league and we had an oval race at Indy. I think I was lapping in the low 1:03's, wide open the whole lap with minimum aero. Along comes someone running in the lows 1:01's
- 1,466
- Canada
- mikethehockeyfan
It doesn't seem like you have the patience to participate in online racing. It's not easy sometimes.
Bye!
qwbufp
(Banned)
- 642
- Montréal
- qwbufp
Not easy indeed... Three wins at Suzuka today but could have been five. If I feel like the guy I just passed is dangerous, I leave tons of room at the next corner and often get passed. I don’t mind it as close racing is fun but... So many drivers brake super early at the chicane and you just can’ stop in time and you end up hitting them gently or veering to the inside to avoid them. No penalty, no consequence other than a destroyed corner exit and an orange SR indicator. I just had a race with a struggling Brazilian who kept doing that. I gave him the place back twice but he ended up braking on the straight to crash me. I caught him back and he pushed me on the grass and I ended up 3rd and he won. I just hope we won’t be matched again. I don’t feel like racing him clean next time.
Edit: Just had an awesome close battle for the lead with an American driver. I feel so much better now haha
Edit: Just had an awesome close battle for the lead with an American driver. I feel so much better now haha
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- 494
- Atlanta, GA
- eDirtyTati
Kaz is a racer in the real world. Where fair racing includes tuning your car to find the best of the driver's and the car's ability. Good luck getting him to change that about his game, where tuning has been a major proponent for 20 years. It makes sense to ban it for challenges, but for wheel-to-wheel racing with other players? No. I hope, for the rest of our sakes, that he wouldn't ruin a great part of sim racing for a few whiners who don't wish to engage. Maybe join one of the no-tuning leagues put together on GT Planet. It's been a few years for me, but I don't think S.N.A.I.L. allows tunes.
I was in a Cappuccino RM league and we had an oval race at Indy. I think I was lapping in the low 1:03's, wide open the whole lap with minimum aero. Along comes someone running in the lows 1:01's
That's a crazy setup, haha! I totally get what you're saying. But in racing, it often occurs that one team comes up with a setup that no one else would think works. They win. Everyone else follows suit or tries to beat it. Bet you learned that lesson for next time.
Is that the case in GTS?
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
There's a big difference between real life set ups that are wacky but still follow real life physics obviously, and setups in a game which obviously don't.
- 1,068
- Raleigh, NC
- booch16
IDK, I don't usually try stuff that wouldn't work in the real world. I mean, it's sold as a simulator, not a fantasy setup racing game. I'm sure there will be ways to exploit the compromises in the physics eventually.
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