So New Zealand Wants To Change Its Flag....

[Daniel]

"Hello, I'd like to return my PM. He's not working properly."

 

[LeMansAid]

PM sent.

 

[DK]

But we don't want him, and we can't return him.
So just give him to some poor bugger

Papua New Guinea? I hear Manus Island's nice this time of year.

 

[Grayfox]

Papua New Guinea? I hear Manus Island's nice this time of year.

That will cost too much unless we can put him on one of those boats that "get turned around"

 

[Daniel]

It's been almost a week after the Flag Consideration Panel's announcement and calls are being made to add a fifth flag to the referendum due to negative feedback about the flags chosen by the FCP. Of the chosen four, three have a silver fern. Two of them are the same design with a different colour choice and the third is the logo of a tourism company. It seems as if the FCP have completely ignored the video they made discussing the principles of flag design. Those in favour of changing the flag but against the four designs have expressed the desire to include an ensign created by Aaron Dustin: the Red Peak.

Explanation of the Red Peak design:

A flag should be capable of carrying many stories. The Red Peak flag is designed to allow for interpretation and have capacity to represent varying ideas. That said the formal elements were originally designed to communicate a primary story, to which extended meanings could be attached. The primary story is ‘first to the light’, as explained below:

Additionally, the hoist represents the Maori colours while the fly represents the Union Flag as well as the stars. Both red and white peaks represent the geography of New Zealand, symbolising mountains and volcanoes. The white can also represent the 'long white cloud' of for which New Zealand is so aptly named. The red also symbolises the wharenui, the Maori word for a traditional meeting house.

Software designer Rowan Simpson also penned an open letter to the PM which went viral in New Zealand, appreciating the Red Flag for ticking several of the boxes that constitute good flag design.

I know you want this to be a democratic process, but frankly, given those choices it feels like no choice at all, since three of the designs are so similar and two are identical except for substituted colours. At the moment it’s like being asked to choose between a Carl Jr, a Big Mac, a Whopper and … actually I don’t know the burger equivalent of the hypnoflag, so I’ll leave that to your imagination.

Support for Red Peak has been rising quickly: two petitions have a combined total of over 32,000 signatures, its Facebook page has almost 17,000 likes, polls on news sites Stuff and 3 News have support for the ensign being at 56% and 71% respectively and over NZD $12,000 has been spent in supporting the flag.

John Key has (unconvincingly) stated that the Red Peak will not be in an option in an interview earlier this morning. However, Electorate law expert Graeme Edgeler has said that it would not be difficult to add Red Peak to the referendum, and ACT party leader David Seymour stating that the Government could easily replace one of the duplicate ensigns with the Red Peak.

 

[TenEightyOne]

third is the logo of a tourism company.

I agree with everything you say and I personally prefer the Red Pointy Thing design to all others. I'd just say that the third logo is that of Tourism New Zealand, a national institution rather than a company. In that sense the flag has already represented New Zealand at a national level for some time. Jus' sayin'

 

[Daniel]

Yeah, got the wording wrong on that.

 

[SteveEnforcer]

im a New Zealander myself why the flag change now all of a sudden this is the flag that all Kiwis grew up with i say keep it there's far bigger issues to worry about

 

[Daniel]

im a New Zealander myself why the flag change now all of a sudden this is the flag that all Kiwis grew up with i say keep it there's far bigger issues to worry about

Not a very strong point given the current ensign is our third one.

 

[TenEightyOne]

im a New Zealander myself why the flag change now all of a sudden this is the flag that all Kiwis grew up with i say keep it there's far bigger issues to worry about

30 or 40 years is hardly sudden...

 

[Korza]

im a New Zealander myself why the flag change now all of a sudden this is the flag that all Kiwis grew up with i say keep it there's far bigger issues to worry about

The rumor making its way around is that they're doing it to get rid of due authority which will make it easier to bring the TPPA into effect.

The sad thing is the government can ignore referendums and do whatever they want, even if we as a country say no.

 

[Barra333]

I thought I saw somewhere that it is a binding referendum. Or does that not mean what it sounds like it should?

 

[TenEightyOne]

The rumor making its way around is that they're doing it to get rid of due authority which will make it easier to bring the TPPA into effect.

The sad thing is the government can ignore referendums and do whatever they want, even if we as a country say no.

Nonsense, changing the flag has nothing to do with altering the legislative framework for any of the countries involved in any part of the TP programmes. Protecting IP and building trade is a sensible step for any country, as far as I've seen only the mad "we know more than you" conspiracy sites have really taken against sensible trade.

 

[Daniel]

I have very little words. The panel appointed to select the shortlist had no experience in vexillology. And then it turns out they sought advice from a shoe designer? What the 🤬.

According to official documents released to me yesterday, the panel didn't consult the advice of any vexillologists. Instead, they asked for the 'expert' advice of a Nike sportshoe designer who previously designed washing machines.

The International Congress of Vexillology met in Sydney on the same day of the final four flag design announcement in Wellington. When leading flag experts were asked what they thought of the four designs, they were underwhelmed. One even suggested that the designs weren't flags at all.

The quality of decision-making is so compromised that design guru Mike Hutcheson described the choice between the four designs to be like "choosing the tallest dwarf."

I wouldn't be surprised if the designer was paid by Key to say "hey that silver fern one looks good. Ooh! So does that one. And that one!

 

[niky]

Why would we want pornography on our flag?

I am saddened by the fact that I am a week too late to be the one who said that.

 

[Daniel]

 

[SVX]

So that'll be a no, then.

 

[Liquid]

Eh. I find the idea of a sovereign state, commonwealth or not, having a Union flag within its own to be far too submissive. My country's flag isn't even represented in it and the Union flag itself is supposed to be 'my' flag in one sense.

Forge your own destiny and design. But if that's how the parliament voted, that's how it is... what a waste of money.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Eh. I find the idea of a sovereign state, commonwealth or not, having a Union flag within its own to be far too submissive. My country's flag isn't even represented in it and the Union flag itself is supposed to be 'my' flag in one sense.

The Union flag is a ridiculous banner, it represents two of the four countries of the current Union and one that isn't part of it (the 'replacement' doesn't even have its own flag). Beats me why the former colonies would want to include it.

that's how it is... what a waste of money.

Quite.

 

[Robin]

I can't believe after all that time and money they scraped the whole idea, maybe they should have done a public vote BEFORE even starting the process!

It is slightly odd to have another countries flag on yours when you are a sovereign state. Most former UK colonies have changed theirs long ago. Only a handful remain.

The Hawaiian flag is a bit of a funny one, they put the Union Jack on it because the King kinda liked it

 

[Korza]

I think the biggest issue is that the proposed new flag looked terrible. It may have been a different outcome if it had been a better design.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think the biggest issue is that the proposed new flag looked terrible. It may have been a different outcome if it had been a better design.

If I had to choose between a fern and a modified Union Jack I'd pick the UJ myself.
Should have went with this guy...would have passed for sure

 

[Daniel]

If I had to choose between a fern and a modified Union Jack I'd pick the UJ myself.
Should have went with this guy...would have passed for sure

Wrong country.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Wrong country.

Ouch

 

[Johnnypenso]

Wrong country.

That's kind of the point. Even the Tasmanian Devil would have gotten passed. Who would vote for a fern?

 

[Daniel]

You say that yet the Canadian flag has a leaf on it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You say that yet the Canadian flag has a leaf on it.

From the maple leaf comes maple syrup. If you've ever had maple syrup, and you like sweets, it's nearly undeniable evidence of the existance of a God, that's how good it is. Having said that, if I had a choice between a beaver and a leaf, it'd be the beaver hands down

 

[Omnis]

The leaf goes on top of the beaver.

 

[mustafur]

Can't deny a good beaver.