So now we can "bribe our way to victory"? (PRICES REVEALED, SEE OP)

[SlipZtrEm]

Unsurprisingly, I see a lot of people defending this approach of real-money-for-credits when PD does it, compared to the vitriol other franchises tend to receive for the exact same mechanic. Just like day one DLC.

That said - I'm really not too bothered by it. FM4 and FH have tokens that I've never felt the need to buy (though I did use up the free ones given to me by my LCE copy). Why? Because those games gave me more than enough credits to begin with. The main issue I'm concerned with with regards to GT6 is how well the career is structured to make sure we're not essentially cornered into needing these pay-for credits. GT5 and it's terrible progression system? A massive bummer. If GT6 has a more balanced approach to both car prices (not looking too hot) and prize money (unsure), then these won't make that much of an impact on the general community.

Speaking of which, those complaining about how the credits could provide an unfair advantage from Day 1 online: room restrictions, and the 15th Anniversary bonus cars.

 

[eran0004]

Who was the one who brought up the point that paying to get around credit grinding wasn't a ripoff, thus establishing the negative correlation in the first place that has defined this argument?

Oh, right.

Dude, that's not a correlation. There were grinding in GT5, even without any way to purchase credits. So the correlation is busted right there. And how would you define a balanced economy?

 

[machschnel]

Buying credits will not get you cars, it will give you credits, without having to work for them.

And you use credits to buy ....... ?

Only if you don't want to work for it.

But I did work for it - I go to work, I get paid, I spend some of it on GT6. Now, what does that entitle me to? In my mind I should get everything ie. no unlocking, but I understand that part of Gran Turismo is playing through the A-Spec, so I begrudgingly do it. But now we are told that for a small fee we can essentially skip it. Why can't I skip it by choice? A non-financial choice? If in game content has a real world price, did I not already pay that real world price upon purchase of the game? If not, what was I buying?

Locking cars behind a "career structure", although to me annoying, was perfectly acceptable. But locking cars behind a pay wall is an entirely different prospect.

I'd like you to answer one question though - What does my purchase of GT6 entitle me to?

 

[Tornado]

Dude, that's not a correlation. There were grinding in GT5, even without any way to purchase credits. So the correlation is busted right there.

Grinding by default means that somewhere there is a problem with the balancing of the game. The GT series isn't Disgaea, where you are encouraged to creatively get around a game trying to beat you down and that is part of the appeal in and of itself; and it was even less so prior to GT5 and the bizarre changes it made to the GT mode. For you to say that someone can pay money to bypass something that shouldn't be much of an issue in the first place in an ideally designed system (when combined with the false dichotomy you presented in your previous post) already locks that correlation in; because why would someone pay it otherwise? For certain there are people who simply don't enjoy GT mode much at all and just want the cars to race online; but that doesn't mean that there immediate response would be to pay PD money to unlock cars for them instead and to suggest it is just means that you're also saying that PD don't need to bother trying to improve in ways that appeal to them.
Aren't the cars supposed to be a means to an end (a fun driving experience which the GT mode structure contributes to) rather than a point to put the player over a barrel with to pad out the game length?

And how would you define a balanced economy?

You've already had one example explained to you (as well as an even better example posted by Johnnypenso that went into good detail) in another thread, and you eventually resorted to just ignoring it and dodging responses when questioned (as you've done multiple times over the course of the debate in this thread). You think my time is worth that little that I would go through and do so again just for you to ultimately ignore it again? At this point I'm just operating on trying to see what completely left-field attempt to derail a point you'll think of next when someone asks you something or responds in a pointed way.


Now if I could pay someone to do it for me (perhaps Jordan could assign an autopost function, for a small fee that goes towards increasing the funds for future GTP costs), that would be ideal; but alas. I already have a Premium membership and that isn't one of the perks.

 

[eran0004]

And you use credits to buy ....... ?

Cars, or tuning parts.

And you obtain credits how.......?

Yes, work. Or pay. You decide which one.

But I did work for it - I go to work, I get paid, I spend some of it on GT6. Now, what does that entitle me to? In my mind I should get everything ie. no unlocking, but I understand that part of Gran Turismo is playing through the A-Spec, so I begrudgingly do it. But now we are told that for a small fee we can essentially skip it. Why can't I skip it by choice? A non-financial choice? If in game content has a real world price, did I not already pay that real world price upon purchase of the game? If not, what was I buying?

Locking cars behind a "career structure", although to me annoying, was perfectly acceptable. But locking cars behind a pay wall is an entirely different prospect.

I'd like you to answer one question though - What does my purchase of GT6 entitle me to?

Your purchase of GT6 entitles you to play the game. Part of the game is about collecting credits so that you can buy and tune cars. You can collect credits by racing, or if you don't want to race for it, you can also purchase it. That is what it entitles you to.

 

[I'm Motarded]

I wonder how this affects other parts of the game, like gifting cars. The game will have to be more secure than ever to stop blackmarket credit sales, right?

 

[jimipitbull]

Now if I could pay someone to do it for me (perhaps Jordan could assign an autopost function, for a small fee that goes towards increasing the funds for future GTP costs), that would be ideal; but alas. I already have a Premium membership and that isn't one of the perks.

Send me your login details, I'll give you 10 posts for free.

 

[machschnel]

Your purchase of GT6 entitles you to play the game. Part of the game is about collecting credits so that you can buy and tune cars. You can collect credits by racing, or if you don't want to race for it, you can also purchase it. That is what it entitles you to.

Do you realize what your'e actually saying here?

My initial purchase entitles me to hours unlocking cars/tracks/races. Or, I can outlay more cash to avoid this process all together. So essentially, when you buy GT6 all your'e actually getting is a time consuming process. If you wish to avoid said process, pay more money.

 

[Crumpet]

My eyes. What have I read?!

I apologise if it was too difficult for you.

 

[eran0004]

For you to say that someone can pay money to bypass something that shouldn't be much of an issue in the first place in an ideally designed system already locks that correlation in; because why would someone pay it otherwise? Aren't the cars supposed to be a means to an end (a fun driving experience which the GT mode structure contributes to) rather than a point to put the player over a barrel with to pad out the game length?

But that isn't correlation.
And the system isn't ideally designed, and that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the option to buy credits does not correlate with a balanced economy, i.e. the balance of the economy is independent from the option of buying credits. The option to buy credits does not make the economy worse, neither does it hinder an improvement of it.

Unless you want things for free of course, but that doesn't seem to be what you're looking for.

 

[eran0004]

Do you realize what your'e actually saying here?

My initial purchase entitles me to hours unlocking cars/tracks/races. Or, I can outlay more cash to avoid this process all together. So essentially, when you buy GT6 all your'e actually getting is a time consuming process. If you wish to avoid said process, pay more money.

That's the way the game is designed. You earn credits, and then you use them to buy cars and tuning parts. Has been that way for 15 years. The only thing that's new here is the option to buy credits, and if it bothers you - don't use it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

But that isn't correlation.
And the system isn't ideally designed, and that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the option to buy credits does not correlate with a balanced economy, i.e. the balance of the economy is independent from the option of buying credits. The option to buy credits does not make the economy worse, neither does it hinder an improvement of it.

Unless you want things for free of course, but that doesn't seem to be what you're looking for.

Is it? Do you know this for a fact? Source? You have no idea how the economy in GT6 is designed and whether not it's been adjusted to reflect the fact that you can buy credits now.

 

[trustjab]

Considering the hypothetical eran started the discussion with also assumed poor game design (specifically, either being forced to grind to advance through the game or paying extra money to get out of having to do so), and I was responding to him, yes.

The answer is you nor I or anyone here has played GT6. So we cant assume its a poor design in the credit gaining aspect, yet.

The go-to argument to ignore the main point of any critical discussion regarding GT6 around here seems to be "So you've played GT6", so fair dos. Would you like to answer the question I asked of him regarding how paying for new content and paying to bypass restrictions of questionable good faith on existing content are the same thing just because the money goes the same place? Or the questions I posed regarding what incentive there is to make the game better by correcting potential flaws when there are people ready and willing to pay extra to ignore them?

Why would I care to argue your question to someone else? You got an issue with his opinion, argue with him on his opinion, don't move the non relevant argument to my statement. I dont agree that "you haven't played GT6" is the fall back line for defense against GT6 criticism. No game is without fault. But the minute details can't be known until the game is in hand. 👍

I know that the car prices are the same, and I know what PD ultimately did in GT5 to make those prices easier to swallow rather than really fixing anything, and I used that knowledge to theorize the situations outlined above regarding what it could result in. Hence the edit of "(individually) poor game design" for clarification over the original "poor game design". I know, assuming assumptions and blah blah blah, but pointing out that I don't know how things will be doesn't amount to much when I was posing hypothetical questions in the first place.

I know youre saying your argument is "what-if". I'm saying there is ways to make additional credits such as coffee break. Cars in GT are priced pretty realistically. If you want to get technical, gaining credits from races is a delicate process in game just as irl. You may want to skip the dlc for credits. Start off with 20k, buy a car you can run for multiple races. I dont need to feed you the lines, you know the drill.

 

[machschnel]

if it bothers you - don't use it.

Okay, so I wont use the micro transactions, but now that A-Spec content apparently has a real world price, why should I be unlocking things the "old-fashioned way" - I feel if we are putting a price on in-game content, my initial purchase already covered it.

 

[trustjab]

Its the same for every GT. You start with 15-20k. Buy a car and gain money. Be frugal, buy a car that can upgrade easily and partake in multiple events. If you start with an MX5 for example, you know Sunday Cup, RWD, Japanese car series etc. can be done with that one car. If theres 3 events each with 4k payouts (taken from images on gran-turismo.com pictures) for 1st, that comes to be 36k. Enough to buy another car to do things like FWD, American series etc. How is this any different from other GT's?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

How is this any different from other GT's?

Because the payouts haven't ballooned out at the same rate the car prices have. The most expensive car in GT1 was 500k, and running a particular series all the way through netted you well over half that. GT2 had the All-Stars race at Red Rock for quick money, GT3 had... something, and GT4 had either the Amalfi special event or the DTM series.

GT5 had nothing before Seasonals that netted you anything more than (comparative) peanuts. Sure, the awful XP system didn't help, but even without it, there was little in the way of decent cash, other than the one-time special events. And of course, it had 5 cars costing upwards of 10 million credits. Six if you want to count the X-cars.

I completely see the argument here; we don't know for sure how well laid out the career payouts are in GT6. It might be entirely too little again, requiring weeks of grinding against dumb rabbit AI to get some of the pricier cars, and adding these paid-for credits could've been either a shrewd business decision or a small price to pay for those who want to get access to the cars right away. Like a fair amount of things here, it's a matter of which side of the fence you're looking from.

But considering the game won't even ship with B-Spec mode, they have at least confirmed that if you plan on grinding, you're going to be doing it yourself. Was that decision made with the tokens in mind? Who knows.

 

[machschnel]

How is this any different from other GT's?

Seriously?

In the past it's been -

*Pay money
*Progress through A-Spec
*Use credits as you will.

Now its -

*Pay money
*Progress through A-Spec or pay money
*Use credits as you will.

So now in game content has a price beyond it's retail cost in GT6. Polyphony have basically accepted some do not enjoy A-Spec or have time to complete it. Is the correct response to this issue to charge already paying customers more to play how they wish too? Or should the issue be addressed by possibly unlocking all cars for Arcade Mode (ala Forza)? Or something else entirely? I'm not sure, but I think charging people extra to avoid an outdated career structure is not the way to go.

People buy Gran Turismo for the cars. A-Spec was a bane to many, but you put up with it as it was just "part of Gran Turismo". But now it seems money trumps tradition, in which case I feel I've already paid for the car's in the game.

 

[Grand Prix]

Because the payouts haven't ballooned out at the same rate the car prices have. The most expensive car in GT1 was 500k, and running a particular series all the way through netted you well over half that. GT2 had the All-Stars race at Red Rock for quick money, GT3 had... something, and GT4 had either the Amalfi special event or the DTM series.

GT5 had nothing before Seasonals that netted you anything more than (comparative) peanuts. Sure, the awful XP system didn't help, but even without it, there was little in the way of decent cash, other than the one-time special events. And of course, it had 5 cars costing upwards of 10 million credits. Six if you want to count the X-cars.

I completely see the argument here; we don't know for sure how well laid out the career payouts are in GT6. It might be entirely too little again, requiring weeks of grinding against dumb rabbit AI to get some of the pricier cars, and adding these paid-for credits could've been either a shrewd business decision or a small price to pay for those who want to get access to the cars right away. Like a fair amount of things here, it's a matter of which side of the fence you're looking from.

But considering the game won't even ship with B-Spec mode, they have at least confirmed that if you plan on grinding, you're going to be doing it yourself. Was that decision made with the tokens in mind? Who knows.

From what I can remember, there wasn't much grinding in GT3, for me at least, because you could win the F090/S quite early on, and then you could just win everything with that. Except the Toyota Vitz and Pagani Zonda races, those were hell, especially the Zonda one, because if you wanted a Zonda LM racecar, you had to upgrade a Zonda road car to compete against Zonda LM racecars... Although maybe the Vitz race was harder?

That's one stupid thing about GT games I hope they change. When I run a Citroen 2CV race, I don't want to win another Citroen 2CV, never mind a pink one. Give us something we can use in another race, then we wouldn't have to grind for credits, nor would we ever feel the need to exchange cash for credits.

 

[trustjab]

They also confirmed seasonal events. We know cofee breaks aren't huge payouts nor is sunday cup. But 4k for winning each race aint bad to start. Then you have the series championships that net you a good haul for placing first in addition to the individual races. Perhaps theyll continue the "login bonus" percentage gain or the lower PP factor?

 

[OpticZero]

I think the buying of in game credits should not be there; but as long as it doesn't affect me, I'm not going to complain too much. Let the rich kids buy all they want as long as it doesn't hinder my fun.

 

[trustjab]

Seriously?

In the past it's been -

*Pay money
*Progress through A-Spec
*Use credits as you will.

Now its -

*Pay money
*Progress through A-Spec or pay money
*Use credits as you will.

So now in game content has a price beyond it's retail cost in GT6. Polyphony have basically accepted some do not enjoy A-Spec or have time to complete it. Is the correct response to this issue to charge already paying customers more to play how they wish too? Or should the issue be addressed by possibly unlocking all cars for Arcade Mode (ala Forza)? Or something else entirely? I'm not sure, but I think charging people extra to avoid an outdated career structure is not the way to go.

People buy Gran Turismo for the cars. A-Spec was a bane to many, but you put up with it as it was just "part of Gran Turismo". But now it seems money trumps tradition, in which case I feel I've already paid for the car's in the game.

Thats more an assumption rather than "how it is". Even if every beginner event pays 4k for winning, if there are 6 events x 3 races in each event, thats 72,000 credits. Plus the reward cars you get with every GT game for winning a series. And coffee break events. And special events etc.

 

[PsuPepperoni]

If I learned anything from GTA, this means in-game prices will be ridiculously high to try and force us to buy credits, and then the save games will get corrupted, dumping all our money into the void

 

[DCP]

Gaming should all be about options, as many different people play it differently, due to commitments, time constraints, too much time, no zest for life, couch potato, whatever.
A game with many options is always welcome.
Some would love to spend half a year earning credits legit to buy fancy expensive cars, while others would rather have this buying credits option after one week, enjoy the game for 2 months and then move on with their lives.

 

[ironman44321]

An idiot tax I see. I wish there was a way they could do it like they did in BF3 where if you bought higher level stuff it was a different version so that people knew you just bought it instead of working for it.

For the record, I HATE that it has become a new thing to let people use real money to buy there way to the top of a game. For shame PD, For shame.

 

[RACECAR]

If I learned anything from GTA, this means in-game prices will be ridiculously high to try and force us to buy credits, and then the save games will get corrupted, dumping all our money into the void

Again, lets not to jump to conclusions. While this is a legitimate concern, its still not guaranteed nor confirmed to happen quite yet.

 

[Lain]

It's not exactly bribing your way to victory... just because you have a fast car doesn't mean you can drive it.

 

[elston87]

It's not exactly bribing your way to victory... just because you have a fast car doesn't mean you can drive it.

I'm just hoping that with these microtransactions, there's still going to be a variety of online rooms. My predictions depict the servers flooded with sports/supercar lobbies just so people can show off their car collection. It's about my only concern with these microtransactions...

 

[trustjab]

Again, lets not to jump to conclusions. While this is a legitimate concern, its still not guaranteed nor confirmed to happen quite yet.

The prices of things are shown in some detail on GT's website. Its like people ignore the screen shots shown.

In this picture you can see you have 3 novice races with one "championship". Then a coffee break that requires stars and a national b license. So it looks like even in the beggining youll win a car (saving you money) you can use elsewhere or sell. Notice how the stars increase after "sunday cup" suggesting more races or higher payouts.

 

[priesty_lfc]

Until we see how it's actually implemented it's just another reason to moan.

It could be added and have no effect on the core experience, or it could turn into pay to win in which case yeah it sucks.

If I can still race SP and MP and earn credits to buy what I want the old fashioned way then I'm good and people need to calm down alittle bit.

 

[swiftwilly]

PD you're going backwards, bring use money to purchase in game cares at the market price of what they are worth.

I am ready to purchase an in game Bugatti for $2m. Come on...