So now we can "bribe our way to victory"? (PRICES REVEALED, SEE OP)

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sems4arsenal
Why would someone use this instead of simply asking for the cars to be shared.
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It will only take a few hundred thousand people (a small number compared to final sales figures) to be suckered into this for sony to plan gt7 around the whole concept and make the game a pain for the rest of us
 
Marcus Garvey
Using those possible numbers above; let's look at the 'real' cost to compete in a high level GT500 series utlising figures we know from GT5, for example. The price of the car is ~$1mil. Now you break in that car and spend $500k on an engine rebuild. You then, presumably will require a set of tyres(or perhaps two if multi-compound) as well. You're now looking at over 1.5mil for this base car. Not done. If you want to be competitive in this fictitious series, you're going to need to test whether this car you built is faster with or without Chassis Maintenance(GT Auto), which is not removable. So you will need to build a second car(1mil) to test that back to back, this one with engine(500k) and chassis maintenance(500k). Oh, and tyres. You're now over $3.5mil. Still not done. The pointy end is also going to test the car with both the Chassis Rigidity(Tuning Shop) and the Chassis Maintenance(GT Auto) applied, and that is also non-removable again requiring yet another build(2mil, total invested 5.5mil). The 'typical' pointy end driver in this fictitious series may very well stop here at $5.5mil invested(not including the add on of 500k-1mil rebuilds after each enduro). The even more particular drivers will test this hypothetical car further, knowing that Chassis Rigidity(Tuning Shop) and Chassis Maintenance(GT Auto) produce different characteristics and will test the car with only Rigidity(Tuning Shop) applied and with only Maintenance(GT Auto) applied. There's another few million, if you'd like.

Before looking at the total numbers, somebody here will say that building anything past the base car is unnecessary. I am going to respectfully predecline that debate, because if you truely believe that the Chassis Maintenance and Chassis Rigidity do not appreciably affect the car's performance and driving characteristics; you're deceiving yourself. If you also believe that top level drivers don't test 2 cars(with and without Chassis Maintenance(GT Auto)) or more(if aftermarket wheels are an option) even for a Spec Race(tuning prohibited), you're deceiving yourself.

So, 5.5mil credits for a solid effort, plus 500k per race for post-race rebuild, and possibly 1mil for post race rebuild(if you determine that with Chassis Maintenance applied is faster). That's $20 real money for your first race(7mil cash pack) and $5-10 for each race you attend(depending on whether you require just and engine rebuild or couple with Chassis Maintenance). That could cost you $100 real money for an 8 race series. Hang around an autoslolam event and you can snag a day(or two) competing in a real car for that money. If you're the sensitive-to-changes particular-type driver who tests all of the combinations of options posted above, you're spending triple digits for 8 races on a video game. And I didn't even touch on the additional rebuilds after your testing sessions and fuel runs between races....because you are going to run a half-length race beforehand......right?

Keep in mind there are also popular series that run 3 cars per week and will require a minimum of one car be acquired per week(as it rotates out and is replaced) and sometimes two.

For those whom the above numbers don't apply, such as your car show/cruise types; see the following. Alfa Zagato @10mil credits in-game is going to cost you $28.55 in real money using the above hypothetical figures. Nearly $30 for one car. Even halving those prices is not acceptable, in my opinion. At that price point other driving or racing 'games' or 'simulators' become very attractive.
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Wow, that is a lot of money. And how much is the difference in time? Do you gain seconds, or tenths, or 1/100's? If you have a limited budget you should perhaps consider cost-effectiveness. Or at least consider to use the faster and cheaper approach to simply back up your save file and do the various testings on one and the same car.
 
Marcus Garvey
It would be awfully naive to assume that credits will be as 'easy' to obtain in GT6 as they are in GT5 with the ability to purchase credits through microtransactions.

I say 'easy' regarding GT5 with irony because after nearly three years and hundreds of hours of game time I still have to 'grind' for an hour or two every few weeks(Bspec seasonal) to obtain the current car required for a series and I personally feel that is a bit absurd. Some may not, and that is ok.

This next part is pure speculation, but given the trend of most developers who offer cash microtransactions typically have available a $5, $10, and $20 option one could postulate the effects on GT6 utlising some costs that we know from GT5. GT6's announcement of a 500k, 1mil, and 7mil packages may be aligned with those $5, $10, and $20 figures, respectively.

Using those possible numbers above; let's look at the 'real' cost to compete in a high level GT500 series utlising figures we know from GT5, for example. The price of the car is ~$1mil. Now you break in that car and spend $500k on an engine rebuild. You then, presumably will require a set of tyres(or perhaps two if multi-compound) as well. You're now looking at over 1.5mil for this base car. Not done. If you want to be competitive in this fictitious series, you're going to need to test whether this car you built is faster with or without Chassis Maintenance(GT Auto), which is not removable. So you will need to build a second car(1mil) to test that back to back, this one with engine(500k) and chassis maintenance(500k). Oh, and tyres. You're now over $3.5mil. Still not done. The pointy end is also going to test the car with both the Chassis Rigidity(Tuning Shop) and the Chassis Maintenance(GT Auto) applied, and that is also non-removable again requiring yet another build(2mil, total invested 5.5mil). The 'typical' pointy end driver in this fictitious series may very well stop here at $5.5mil invested(not including the add on of 500k-1mil rebuilds after each enduro). The even more particular drivers will test this hypothetical car further, knowing that Chassis Rigidity(Tuning Shop) and Chassis Maintenance(GT Auto) produce different characteristics and will test the car with only Rigidity(Tuning Shop) applied and with only Maintenance(GT Auto) applied. There's another few million, if you'd like.

Before looking at the total numbers, somebody here will say that building anything past the base car is unnecessary. I am going to respectfully predecline that debate, because if you truely believe that the Chassis Maintenance and Chassis Rigidity do not appreciably affect the car's performance and driving characteristics; you're deceiving yourself. If you also believe that top level drivers don't test 2 cars(with and without Chassis Maintenance(GT Auto)) or more(if aftermarket wheels are an option) even for a Spec Race(tuning prohibited), you're deceiving yourself.

So, 5.5mil credits for a solid effort, plus 500k per race for post-race rebuild, and possibly 1mil for post race rebuild(if you determine that with Chassis Maintenance applied is faster). That's $20 real money for your first race(7mil cash pack) and $5-10 for each race you attend(depending on whether you require just and engine rebuild or couple with Chassis Maintenance). That could cost you $100 real money for an 8 race series. Hang around an autoslolam event and you can snag a day(or two) competing in a real car for that money. If you're the sensitive-to-changes particular-type driver who tests all of the combinations of options posted above, you're spending triple digits for 8 races on a video game. And I didn't even touch on the additional rebuilds after your testing sessions and fuel runs between races....because you are going to run a half-length race beforehand......right?

Keep in mind there are also popular series that run 3 cars per week and will require a minimum of one car be acquired per week(as it rotates out and is replaced) and sometimes two.

For those whom the above numbers don't apply, such as your car show/cruise types; see the following. Alfa Zagato @10mil credits in-game is going to cost you $28.55 in real money using the above hypothetical figures. Nearly $30 for one car. Even halving those prices is not acceptable, in my opinion. At that price point other driving or racing 'games' or 'simulators' become very attractive.

Of course, this study(used loosely) above may or may not be applicable, however it is not likely a far fetched conclusion. Again, even halving or further dividing these figures is rather unreasonable, to me. What some consider reasonable may be different than others, so please keep that in mind when reading this. Let's remember this is a video game.
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You're blowing this way out of proportion. In GT5 it takes you not even 10 minutes to get the 1 million to buy a GT500 car. Also, chassis maintenance doesn't do anything until at least 6000 km (when the engine ageing sets in). It's not proven when it begins, but I have not heard convincing evidence from anyone that it starts before that (and that includes top level drivers). That means you can run whole series without ever applying it. And if you're really short on cash, try investing another 10 minutes into getting another million with ONE race. Surely, if you take the time to test two cars with every possible option or hours to run an endurance race, you will have that much time. And it doesn't cost you a dime, whether you could actually buy extra credits with real money or not.

And you know what? If you really run endurance series with a number of other people, chances are you won enough credits to apply the chassis maintenance after one season, if you feel your car really needs it, because the longer the races, the higher the payout, even for placing further down the order.
 
machschnel
Maybe sharing will be no more?
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Then might as well call them Electronic Arts.

lancia delta hf
It will only take a few hundred thousand people (a small number compared to final sales figures) to be suckered into this for sony to plan gt7 around the whole concept and make the game a pain for the rest of us
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I share your concerns, Maybe stuff like Day one DLC , season pass and other abominations are on the horizon for the GT series. Tell you what though if that's their plan then I won't be a part of it.
 
We should all sit down, hold hands, sing kumbaya, remain strong and refuse to buy credits together.

Anyone who breaks rank and buys is selling future GT fans down the river.
 
snowgt
You're blowing this way out of proportion. In GT5 it takes you not even 10 minutes to get the 1 million to buy a GT500 car. Also, chassis maintenance doesn't do anything until at least 6000 km (when the engine ageing sets in). It's not proven when it begins, but I have not heard convincing evidence from anyone that it starts before that (and that includes top level drivers). That means you can run whole series without ever applying it. And if you're really short on cash, try investing another 10 minutes into getting another million with ONE race. Surely, if you take the time to test two cars with every possible option or hours to run an endurance race, you will have that much time. And it doesn't cost you a dime, whether you could actually buy extra credits with real money or not.

And you know what? If you really run endurance series with a number of other people, chances are you won enough credits to apply the chassis maintenance after one season, if you feel your car really needs it, because the longer the races, the higher the payout, even for placing further down the order.
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While Marcus' "postulating" may be disproportional to what occurs when we get the game in our hands (hurry up Dec 6th) the possibility of what he describes is still there. I came late to the GT5 scene, but I was involved early enough that in order for my car collection desires to be satisfied, I used the B-Spec grinder to pad my credit balance so I could get the cars I didn't have, when and where they showed up. I've read the poor payout was the reason that grinder widget got built in the first place, in the early days of GT5. If the improvements to payouts in 5 are not carried through to 6 and the only option for being able to afford the in game equipment to be competitive, in whatever series is your current cup of tea, is to pay even more cash for in game credits to afford said equipment, then it's a "level cap" and essentially bilking the consumer. If not for that B-spec grinder widget helping me accrue the necessary credits to afford the cars for the series I've ran to date, it's likely GT5 would have been put on the shelf long before I bought the DLC that came up. If this synthetic level cap system becomes the standard by which we are forced to take our entertainment, it's likely I'll close the doors and become a long haired, long nailed, dirty hermit.
 
If everything is in the Dealership then i doubt most people will collect 100% until a massive amount is earnable. If you need a car then you could just buy either the best or mkst affordable one, money management is key. Using parts is key and with hundreds more available then some. Its not like your grinding for 20mil to get the old race cars for when they come up, theyll be there all the time (unless they say different) so could come back at any time to buy. 2J or 2D was never fun grinding to buy then it comes around, and what happens, 1mil off and buy the time its earned, its gone.
 
I'm in favor of letting someone buy their in game credits with real money, however I'd never do it. But, if there is one thing I'd like to see more in GT, it's options. I like the whole 'why not' scenario if it doesn't affect gameplay negatively. I recently saw Rush and learned that Nikki Lauda bought (err loaned) his way into F1, so why not do the something similar in the game? If you don't want to, you don't have to.


Jerome
 
Jump_Ace
I'm in favor of letting someone buy their in game credits with real money, however I'd never do it. But, if there is one thing I'd like to see more in GT, it's options. I like the whole 'why not' scenario if it doesn't affect gameplay negatively. I recently saw Rush and learned that Nikki Lauda bought (err loaned) his way into F1, so why not do the something similar in the game? If you don't want to, you don't have to.


Jerome
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I just watched Eurogamer review of bathurts on florza 5 and the guy was saying he's not happy with their "buy credits scheme" because they have removed rewarding cars for vivtories and says they are encouraging you to buy ribbons or what ever it is they use, This is the risk we face with gt if people dont see sense,

I cannot for the life of me see how people can accept this rather than demand an option to allow access to all content, Dont pay once fot GT pay twice, Once they've pulled you in they will find a model to get you to pay thrice

TokoTurismo
For making something that's an option and can easily ignore? Oh Lord help the interweb people...
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Jesus christ, Explain how it is acceptble that they charge you for this rather than make it a simple free option? What is it that you dont get about this that could ruin the game for all of us in the long run? When you hand over your money for credits there is no change of service, No dlc cars and whatnot, How about sony give me an option to sell my credits for real money then?

Some people? Have a word mate, Sony say hey buy our game then buy all the contents in the game again and people on here shout yes yes yes how much more shall i bend over for you and let you shaft me?
 
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You would have to be a real goober to buy in game credits using real money. It is just too easy to win credits in the game for this. I think that most anybody could do the math and realize that the amount of time you have to work in the real world to earn "x" amount of money is probably quite a bit more than the amount of time you would have to spend racing in GT to earn the credits that "x" amount of money would buy. (If that makes sense). And I don't know about you guys, but playing GT is a hell of a lot more fun than working at my job.

On the plus side, I will be thrilled if the 20M credit limit is removed from GT6. I never understood its purpose to begin with. I have so many duplicate high dollar cars that I purchased just to make room for more winnings.
 
lancia delta hf
I just watched Eurogamer review of bathurts on florza 5 and the guy was saying he's not happy with their "buy credits scheme" because they have removed rewarding cars for vivtories and says they are encouraging you to buy ribbons or what ever it is they use, This is the risk we face with gt if people dont see sense,

I cannot for the life of me see how people can accept this rather than demand an option to allow access to all content, Dont pay once fot GT pay twice, Once they've pulled you in they will find a model to get you to pay thrice

Jesus christ, Explain how it is acceptble that they charge you for this rather than make it a simple free option? What is it that you dont get about this that could ruin the game for all of us in the long run? When you hand over your money for credits there is no change of service, No dlc cars and whatnot, How about sony give me an option to sell my credits for real money then?

Some people? Have a word mate, Sony say hey buy our game then buy all the contents in the game again and people on here shout yes yes yes how much more shall i bend over for you and let you shaft me?
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What don't you get about the fact that anyone else buying credits has no effect on your game whatsoever.
BDoggPrelude
You would have to be a real goober to buy in game credits using real money. It is just too easy to win credits in the game for this. I think that most anybody could do the math and realize that the amount of time you have to work in the real world to earn "x" amount of money is probably quite a bit more than the amount of time you would have to spend racing in GT to earn the credits that "x" amount of money would buy. (If that makes sense). And I don't know about you guys, but playing GT is a hell of a lot more fun than working at my job.

On the plus side, I will be thrilled if the 20M credit limit is removed from GT6. I never understood its purpose to begin with. I have so many duplicate high dollar cars that I purchased just to make room for more winnings.
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You're assuming the payouts in GT6 remain the same as GT5 and that's a big assumption. If they do, then no problem. If they are lowered to "encourage" the purchase of credits with real $$..the problem.
 
Theres been 5, I repeat, 5 Gran Turismo games with the same concept; Win a race series, receive credits AND a prize car (level ticket at times in GT5).

You low on credits? Sell a prize car. That not enough? Hop on the seasonal events (which have been confirmed to carry over to GT6). Still not enough? Do "coffee breaks" or race online. Seriously, if you're struggling with credit aquisition even with the numerous ways to achieve them, then you DO need this dlc.
 
lancia delta hf
Jesus christ, Explain how it is acceptble that they charge you for this rather than make it a simple option? What is it that you dont get about this that could ruin the game for all of us in the long run? When you hand over your money for credits there is no change of service, No dlc cars and whatnot, How about sony give me an option to sell my credits for real money then?

Some people? Have a word mate, Sony say hey buy our game then buy all the contents in the game again and people on here shout yes yes yes how much more shall i bend over for you and let you shaft me?
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I'm still not understanding how this effects you. You're not the one buying this, but others will rather do because grinding is tiresome, so why should you care? And this IS an option for others to freely buy with their OWN money. But others who DON'T want to purchase this, simply ignore it. Seriously, why is that so hard for you?

However, if they do lower the payout in game, than I'll understand.
 
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Johnnypenso
You're assuming the payouts in GT6 remain the same as GT5 and that's a big assumption. If they do, then no problem. If they are lowered to "encourage" the purchase of credits with real $$..the problem.
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Correct. There would have to be a MASSIVE reduction in credit payouts for this to matter in the least. I would assume that most people, myself included, who are serious GT players, would have a 9 figure bank roll in GT5 at all times if not for the 20m cap. This is once settled in and necessary/favorite cars purchased etc. Even if car and upgrade costs remained the same with payouts getting cut in half, it would hardly make any difference to me once settled into the game.

Have you ever played Real Racing 3? I weathered the storm for quite some time in that game without paying any real money to those hosers at Electronic Arts. I have over 30 cars, many of them fully upgraded, was well on my way to fully completing the game without spending a dime in real money. I didn't mind grinding out high paying races to get the funds. Then EA/FireMonkeys changed the entire game and basically made it necessary to spend money to continue past a certain point in the game. I haven't played the game in months. I'm just not interested in getting nickle and dimed by EA $5 at a time to play a game on my iPhone. Of course, RR3 was a "free" game on my iPhone and EA has to make their money somewhere while Gran Turismo is a console game that you pay $60 up front for.
 
trustjab
Theres been 5, I repeat, 5 Gran Turismo games with the same concept; Win a race series, receive credits AND a prize car (level ticket at times in GT5).

You low on credits? Sell a prize car. That not enough? Hop on the seasonal events (which have been confirmed to carry over to GT6). Still not enough? Do "coffee breaks" or race online. Seriously, if you're struggling with credit aquisition even with the numerous ways to achieve them, then you DO need this dlc.
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You're also assuming the Seasonal Events will be available from day 1 and that the payouts will be the same. If they are not there for a while or are lowered, then acquiring credits will be extremely time consuming. If the game is well designed, I shouldn't have to sell cars in order to get money to race, it kind of defeats the purpose.

I don't know of a single person on my Friend's list that is looking forward to anything but online racing. ASpec, Arcade etc. is so 2004.
 
*Walks in
*looks around
*walks back out
If you dont want to pay for credits, dont.
If others paid out of pocket for their high end cars, BEAT THEM when you grind yours out.

Complaints just for the sake of complaints are hilarious.... Continue to entertain McLovin.
 
trustjab
Theres been 5, I repeat, 5 Gran Turismo games with the same concept; Win a race series, receive credits AND a prize car (level ticket at times in GT5).
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The prize cars you only won once in GT5 (as opposed to however often you wanted in previous games, with slight restrictions in GT3 and GT1); and most of which you literally couldn't sell for anything (as opposed to always being able to sell them for 1/4th value before)? That's already one of the (if not the) biggest outlay of credits in previous games pretty much removed entirely.


Like it or not, there were substantial changes to the GT Mode structure of GT5 over previous games; and I've certainly never seen a convincing argument that it was for the better. Car prices, event order, credit distribution, etc. Enough so that PD ultimately patched in events that handed out millions of credits for not much effort at all. And there's no word on whether most of those changes will be reverted, so the issues with whether or not the buying credits system will be... "encouraged" by the way PD balances the game are still open to discussion.
 
The only issue Ill have with this, is if they make it significantly harder to accrue money so it pushes you towards buying it, in GT5 its super easy to make money, so keep this is mind when playing GT6.

In GT5s current model its not worth buying money as its extremely easy to make it.

Now if they made it that you pay to get the cap removed on how much money you can hold well then i could see myself getting that.
 
Although I pre-ordered the AE GT6 months ago -having 1mil credit and 25 cars day one- I would want to drive the factory spec of thoes cars as well. The 1mil credit will be used to buy, getting the cars up to whatever race specs and fixing them up after crashing sometimes lol. When I get 1st in races I don't like doing them again just for 25,000 credits. So I hope the 200% bonus and online events are back in GT6. If not then at some point I will buy the 7mil credits once or twice, and im sure most of you will, especially the people saying they woun't. Let's be real, no one is going to spend 6 months -unless you have nothing else to do except play GT6 24/7- to own a couple of supercars or any types of cars. Don't forget howmuch you will spend on maintaining and customizing the cars needed for the events. 200% and online events please be back.
 
TokoTurismo
Even though I find this alright. I'll wouldn't lie, this does worry me for the future of GT.
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As well it should. If they torpedo the payouts in order to encourage buying credits, the whole legacy of GT is tainted IMO. No longer can anyone talk about them being the little independent guy, in it for the quality of the product, in it for the fans, in it for the big picture, yes making money but not gouging us by nickle and diming us with features from other game designers/studios we hate, like altering the economy of the game to make a buck. Kaz's vision, the GT family and all that malarkey will be out the window if they alter the economy of the game to attempt to sell credits.
 

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