So now we can "bribe our way to victory"? (PRICES REVEALED, SEE OP)
- Thread starter tankuroded
- 1,142 comments
- 54,026 views
- 3,894
- Somewhere
- Roflwaffle16
- 734
- Manchester
- stiggygonzalez
Frankly I find microtransactions disgusting.
Paying to win is just a lousy attempt to make money.
Surely this is Sony's idea to get every last bit of money from GT on PS3.
On the other hand making money in GT5 is so easy why would anyone pay to win?
Assuming that the economy in GT6 is the same as GT5.
It's definitely not for me anyway,I won't have a problem with microtransactions in GT6 if the economy stays the same a GT5 is my point.
Paying to win is just a lousy attempt to make money.
Surely this is Sony's idea to get every last bit of money from GT on PS3.
On the other hand making money in GT5 is so easy why would anyone pay to win?
Assuming that the economy in GT6 is the same as GT5.
It's definitely not for me anyway,I won't have a problem with microtransactions in GT6 if the economy stays the same a GT5 is my point.
- 385
- Indiana
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Ive never seen an X1 online in 3 years and hundreds of lobbies. All the tools are in the lobby search area to avoid this.
- 4,275
- Fort Worth/Texas
- RacingChamp30
I am hoping that the 20 million credit maximum is removed and the possibility we can go up to 50 million or more.
- 1,321
- CZE
- novcze
There was discussion about how to make GT more friendly for people who are interested only in online racing and not grinding credits, you know just tuning cars and racing online with friends with any car in game (you already paid for), one of silly arguments against was that give you edge against "regular" players. PD actions show that they don't care about "regular" players or online only players, they just care about money.
- 2,298
- Sauga City
- Bluntified
Here's an idea, why don't they just charge $300 dollars to unlock all the cars? Isn't this how some other sims work? That's only $0.25 per car, I think it's quite a deal if you compare it to past DLC cars!
</sarcasm>.
</sarcasm>.
Filter SRF Off and voila it's not an issue.
- 1,078
- United States
- DGXR
- DGXR1
That's a very broad blanket you're tossing. I agree with Racecar's comment about private lobbies.
- 3,826
The lotus E21 depnding on the quantity of token pack you buy will cost anywhere beteween £32 to £79, £79 for one damn car! Someone at turn 10 needs a good kick in the nutts, I am really curious to see what pd give you for your money.
http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/99944/Lotus+E21+costs+%A332.50+in+Forza+5/
- 17,337
- United Kingdom
Out of interest (having never played any Forza) how long would it take you to buy those cars in game?
- 327
So, this (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...r-time-is-unacceptable-gamers-regroup.290722/) thread was closed. So I will reply *here* to someone, who essentially said that this is how capitalism works.
*clears throat*
As I see it, micro-transactions or whatever the **** they're calling it, is precisely the sort of thing that would not last very long under capitalism. PD/T10 can get away with charging for ridiculous things because Microsoft/Sony carefully constructed what many people would call a "monopoly", which is the polar opposite of a competitive market (i.e. capitalism). That monopoly was not created through usual horizontal product differentiation but by simply combining the business of building the platforms (Xbox, PS) and games (T10, PD). I wouldn't be surprised if in addition they actively restrict access of competitors in that gaming genre/platforms.
Microsoft had to pay hundreds of millions $/€/£ in fines because of the inclusion of Internet Explorer in their OS. How the inclusion of IE in Windows makes consumers worse off than cornering consumers in a particular market by designing a game that will give many people no choice other than buying virtual currency with real money, is up to anyone's appreciation.
Here's a little story: in 2011, AT&T was trying to purchase T-Mobile. It was clear to anyone above the age of 11 that two merging competitors, in a market with only four competitors in total, would give rise to more market power, higher prices, worse services, higher risk of collusion, etc. To counter that argument, some C-level guy from AT&T actually said that AT&T and T-Mobile weren't competitors and that the merger would benefit social welfare, increase competition, decrease prices, create jobs, etc. This ****ing guy.
Just so you know, people on here that say things like "don't buy it if you don't like it" and "DLC only costs as much as a cheese burger" are exactly the type of people that are gullible enough to allow things like that happen. One such statement, comparable to the one made by the AT&T guy, from PD would be "it takes 10 months to model a car" or some **** like that. Some people actually believed this and are totally okay with paying €1 for a car.
There is a distinct difference between purchasing a game and purchasing a game that later on will force you to buy additional things at a ridiculous mark up. If you people don't get this, you just can't be helped. I'm pretty sure you're not a minority, so I totally get why banking is a $120 trillion business.
Anyway, end rant.
*clears throat*
As I see it, micro-transactions or whatever the **** they're calling it, is precisely the sort of thing that would not last very long under capitalism. PD/T10 can get away with charging for ridiculous things because Microsoft/Sony carefully constructed what many people would call a "monopoly", which is the polar opposite of a competitive market (i.e. capitalism). That monopoly was not created through usual horizontal product differentiation but by simply combining the business of building the platforms (Xbox, PS) and games (T10, PD). I wouldn't be surprised if in addition they actively restrict access of competitors in that gaming genre/platforms.
Microsoft had to pay hundreds of millions $/€/£ in fines because of the inclusion of Internet Explorer in their OS. How the inclusion of IE in Windows makes consumers worse off than cornering consumers in a particular market by designing a game that will give many people no choice other than buying virtual currency with real money, is up to anyone's appreciation.
Here's a little story: in 2011, AT&T was trying to purchase T-Mobile. It was clear to anyone above the age of 11 that two merging competitors, in a market with only four competitors in total, would give rise to more market power, higher prices, worse services, higher risk of collusion, etc. To counter that argument, some C-level guy from AT&T actually said that AT&T and T-Mobile weren't competitors and that the merger would benefit social welfare, increase competition, decrease prices, create jobs, etc. This ****ing guy.
Just so you know, people on here that say things like "don't buy it if you don't like it" and "DLC only costs as much as a cheese burger" are exactly the type of people that are gullible enough to allow things like that happen. One such statement, comparable to the one made by the AT&T guy, from PD would be "it takes 10 months to model a car" or some **** like that. Some people actually believed this and are totally okay with paying €1 for a car.
There is a distinct difference between purchasing a game and purchasing a game that later on will force you to buy additional things at a ridiculous mark up. If you people don't get this, you just can't be helped. I'm pretty sure you're not a minority, so I totally get why banking is a $120 trillion business.
Anyway, end rant.
I'm not sure about this, but I think the Xbox crowd is generally younger (like, still living in their parent's house) than PS owners. So Xbox people are probably less price elastic, meaning they are willing to pay higher prices. But, that is not to say that Sony and Microsoft did not have a nice dinner together and talk about the right prices for their products (not just for racing games but things like, oh, I don't know, charging for online gaming).
Last edited:
- 315
- Washington
- ace004
The only thing I see this hurting is if it's offered day 1. Because then we won't have as many 200PP slow car races online like we did in GT5. I loved the early days low power races. They were funny and entertaining. Like how one of my best races in real life was me riding along in my buddies stock Honda CRX vs my buddies V6 Ford Exploder. Longest and slowest race I have ever been in and I was loving it. Couldn't wipe the smile off my face! On a private closed road btw.
- 1,274
- Denver,Miami,Vegas
- terryparker15
They may finally be catching up with the times. This could be a good thing. It may possibly equate to much wanted cars and tracks.
Or it could mean nothing other than the people that don't want to play can't purchase there way to the top.
I know this is generally used in reference to the tokens/credits, but what about the games themselves? If the game is a chore unless you buy tokens/credits, why not simply play something else and don't buy it? It may be a useless question to ask on GTPlanet but who's forcing anyone to buy GT6 or FM5?
What I don't understand, personally speaking, is how putting time into a game became so unacceptable. This thread has proven that many of us have differing levels of patience, and I don't mean to say the people who hate "the grind" are overly impatient. I can tell you that I'm not concerned with making millions of credits in a day. I'm playing the game to play the game; either the racing is enjoyable or it's not. If it's enjoyable, and the gameplay variety is enough to continue having more fun -- even if I have to wait patiently to earn the bestest, most expensive cars -- that's great. If it's not enjoyable, I move on.
There's no reason to play a game that isn't fun, even if I could have everything I want; whether it's for free, for a price, or by grinding repetitively for hours. I don't expect to earn X in Y amount of time, I just expect to have a good time. Assuming I am, the longer Y takes, the more rewarding it will be when I get X. Maybe that's just me?
I suppose you can take this with a grain of salt considering I don't own GT5 and can't truthfully recall how bad of a grind it was. I tried the game, and didn't really enjoy it...so I didn't buy it. I intend to give GT6 a similar chance, so whether it's tedious or not, I'll decide for myself.
- 3,826
According to Eurogamer review of Forza 5 it takes about an hour to win 110.000 credits iirc
The thing is i dont think anyone who bought gt5 on day 1 was expectimg it to be such a chore and you had to play it to find out as for not buying gt6 or forza5 if its chore because of credits thats certainly the route i shall be taking, I've always bought teh gt franchise aswell as pes and finally gave pes the boot as they rely on loyal fans and take us for a ride
Last edited:
- 315
- Washington
- ace004
For the record I don't like paying for content in a video game. Call me old school, but I remember when you paid once and you were done. Actually GT is about the only game I will pay for stuff, but I still hate doing so.
Anyways I see a lot of people complaining how this will give people advantages. Yes it will if you are playing A-spec, but you have the choice not to buy it. And if you're online then I don't see the problem. The majority of rooms are limited by PP or what not. Buying a good car doesn't make you a good driver. A good driver can take a significantly slower car then their competition and still win as long as the others are lacking in skill.
Anyways I see a lot of people complaining how this will give people advantages. Yes it will if you are playing A-spec, but you have the choice not to buy it. And if you're online then I don't see the problem. The majority of rooms are limited by PP or what not. Buying a good car doesn't make you a good driver. A good driver can take a significantly slower car then their competition and still win as long as the others are lacking in skill.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Good post but I think you're mistaken on a couple of points. I don't believe it's differing levels of patience that drives this way of thinking, I think it's more related to the maturing of the GT audience. Many of us grew up playing GT as teenagers and young adults when we had much more time to grind and run events over and over. But after several iterations of the game, those low level races against awful AI just don't hold the same level of attraction they used to because we've done them over and over. Doing them again in GT5, 6 and beyond is akin to telling Sebastian Vettel every three years he has to go back and run some Formula Ford races before he is allowed back in F1. And because we're older, many of us just don't have the time we used to.
The other thing that's changed is the advent of online racing. For many of us, we don't care at all about offline, it's just a way to earn credits to go racing online and frankly it's boring and repetitive and not as challenging as racing real people with real skills and real personalities.
I believe GT has to grow up some and better reflect a more diverse audience. Without a fast track to getting online and racing it'll put a lot of people off the game. Without more challenging AI it'll put some people off the game. The market is changing, the audience is changing, and the competition is showing what can be done better and we won't settle for substandard elements of the game for much longer.
@Johnnypenso -- Good points. 👍 I would not say Polyphony is a leader in the genre at all, and they really need to bring changes to the game with GT6 for me to justify getting a PS3, because I don't own one (there are other exclusives I wouldn't mind playing, too). I actually enjoy working my way up from low-level races, and I'm not terribly big on online play, but poor AI is a problem, I agree. As I said, my perspective as a GT fan is limited considering I've effectively been away from the series since 2005 or so. GT3 was the one that pulled me in, and then GT4 pulled the rug from under my feet with its intolerable physics model. I still like the whole concept of the game but the driving physics and other issues need to be sorted out.
It seems some have decided that GT5 is all the warning they need to be wary of GT6 for this, and if that's the way they feel maybe they should heed that warning. I can relate to feeling cheated, as I felt about GT4 (day one purchase, first in line even), and it's not cool, but you learn from your mistakes. Soon after, with GT5 nowhere in sight, I got a 360 and joined the "other side." I wasn't even truly happy with Forza until FM4 and Horizon came around, and now that Forza has upgraded to a new console I'm not sure I want, I might have to look elsewhere again. But that's how it goes.
Dmarc_Atl
(Banned)
- 1,463
Wait.. So you think PD is unfair and greedy, yet you want them to completely abandon the formula that makes a game, a game in result making millions of fans pissed just so that you can play with every car online? PD are "ripping-off" people that wants to pay more to unlock all cars in the game, yet a hardcore sim with 1+k cars unlocked from day would cost you triple the price of GT6....If you don't have time to "grind through" or in reality .. "play" a game (we had to grind in gt5 prior to seasonal events inclusion because the payouts in a-spec events are low and the AI was sub-par and the lack of restrictions. not just the racing,because that's the point of the game) , then don't get the game.Its as simple as that.
The game you already paid for already has a progression formula gameplay.If you don't want to play the game the way it was made to be played, then you should pay more or find another game that suites your needs.Oh wait that's just a silly argument...because...wait.. why is that a silly argument again anyone?
Oh I get it clearly.You feel you are entitled to things you aren't actually entitled to.Its impossible to be ripped off when A.) Your aren't forced to buy anything and you know exactly what you are getting and B.)You don't have anything to compare the prices to as standard.Have we forgotten what rip-off means ( I know english isn't every ones native) or is this another "grind"?I think the word some of you are looking for is scam.Which I have always thought DLC was
- 315
- Washington
- ace004
This pretty much sums up me as a player. I don't find A-spec challenging enough to play it for fun. The only reason I do it is for my online garage. It feels awkward and a waste of time playing these low level races. The only way I get a challenge is to play against other good drivers online. This is why I actually might buy some credits if they aren't too overly priced. But I probably will still buy some because I have to factor in how much money is my time worth.
- 327
Absolutely nobody is forcing anyone to purchase a game. However, once you do have the game, the fact that PD or T10 implicitly or explicitly force you to buy additional content is a problem for me.
What determined the in-game economy in GT1-5? I guess the only worry for Kaz was that everyone would able to enjoy the game to its fullest. GT6 will very likely have a different economy (and they will perhaps even change it over time) and the reason will be that they want to make money by changing a number in the game. If they don't make a secret out of the fact that you have to do the Sunday Cup twelve times to afford a new car, then that's fine.
However, I suspect that this will not be the case. Some people will inevitably buy the in-game currency in order to advance faster in the game (or purchase the cars they want). Would they have done if the in-game currency was easy to earn? Would they have bought the game if they knew that at some point they would have to spend money to enjoy the game for more than a few days? I really don't think so.
No, that's actually a sure way of getting ripped off. This is, IMO, precisely the reason why Enthusia 2 (a close substitute to GT) doesn't exist. If it did, it would be what PD would perceive as being "competition", which would have the nice side effect of decreasing prices and increase the quality of products. Sony has no interest in having Enthusia 2 on the playstation because that would hurt the sales of the game that was produced by the studio they own. I'm pretty sure this is called an "anti-competitive practice" and it's deemed illegal. Why is it illegal? Well, I guess we're just entitled to it.
Last edited:
- 2,013
- WNC
- TRLWNC
Wow, it takes me a long time to get through a big thread! I started going through here on Tuesday, I think!
Okay. Gut reaction: This will cheapen the game a bit. IE; If you can buy success, why work for it..... ?
After reading through all of these posts, though, I have a slightly different feel for it. Let me see if I can make sense:
GT5 had a HORRIBLE payout system, everyone can agree. Really, after advancing through.... what.... five (?) levels, you barely START getting 6 figures for first?..... NOT good! I will admit that I put the game down for a couple of years because I didn't understand online and wasn't really anxious to try it out and I was bored and tired of grinding. I got sold on trying out online after coming back to the forums and reading how good it could be. And it is! (Though not just for the payouts. The community is more what I'm after.)
To make up for the low A- and B- spec payouts, Seasonals were updated to put out MASSIVE payments. Then, all the Pokemon hunters had a hayday.
So, what's next.....?
First thought: Seasonals will have a reasonable payout. No more 7-10 figures for a shorter race. That doesn't mean we won't get a good payout, but no more X cars for 20 or 30 races.
Second thought: A picture of the first race(s) payouts (GT website) indicates that the payouts for the races offline will be higher. This bodes well for seeing high (7-10 figures) payouts for the higher races (especially enduros, whatever they may be now....).
Third thought: Buying credits may help you through the A-spec (don't have to grind the first race 5 times to win the money to get a car to win in the next series of races....), but the online controls are going to be very powerful. This hopefully means that setting a specific pp/hp/weight will give you ONLY a small selection of cars to be allowed in the race, and/or limit the race to only one car with a specific tune/PP/whatever. So, once you go online, if you are in a lobby that has a good host, you won't be racing over everyone else's ability (unless you have that ability already...
). So, go for it. I'll race you in a well planned event and one of us will win based on our ability.
Final Thought: I have paid off my preorder, and I am waiting to hear about a midnight release. (Bought 5 on day one over lunch, took the day off for 6, so I'm REALLY excited this time!) I have my reservations about DLC of any kind. I may buy some if I can get a good bundle, but in game credits, probably never. I will wait and see with the rest of us what we will get. Until then, I'll just be patient and stalk Gamestop's door....
Okay. Gut reaction: This will cheapen the game a bit. IE; If you can buy success, why work for it..... ?
After reading through all of these posts, though, I have a slightly different feel for it. Let me see if I can make sense:
GT5 had a HORRIBLE payout system, everyone can agree. Really, after advancing through.... what.... five (?) levels, you barely START getting 6 figures for first?..... NOT good! I will admit that I put the game down for a couple of years because I didn't understand online and wasn't really anxious to try it out and I was bored and tired of grinding. I got sold on trying out online after coming back to the forums and reading how good it could be. And it is! (Though not just for the payouts. The community is more what I'm after.)
To make up for the low A- and B- spec payouts, Seasonals were updated to put out MASSIVE payments. Then, all the Pokemon hunters had a hayday.
So, what's next.....?
First thought: Seasonals will have a reasonable payout. No more 7-10 figures for a shorter race. That doesn't mean we won't get a good payout, but no more X cars for 20 or 30 races.
Second thought: A picture of the first race(s) payouts (GT website) indicates that the payouts for the races offline will be higher. This bodes well for seeing high (7-10 figures) payouts for the higher races (especially enduros, whatever they may be now....).
Third thought: Buying credits may help you through the A-spec (don't have to grind the first race 5 times to win the money to get a car to win in the next series of races....), but the online controls are going to be very powerful. This hopefully means that setting a specific pp/hp/weight will give you ONLY a small selection of cars to be allowed in the race, and/or limit the race to only one car with a specific tune/PP/whatever. So, once you go online, if you are in a lobby that has a good host, you won't be racing over everyone else's ability (unless you have that ability already...
). So, go for it. I'll race you in a well planned event and one of us will win based on our ability.Final Thought: I have paid off my preorder, and I am waiting to hear about a midnight release. (Bought 5 on day one over lunch, took the day off for 6, so I'm REALLY excited this time!) I have my reservations about DLC of any kind. I may buy some if I can get a good bundle, but in game credits, probably never. I will wait and see with the rest of us what we will get. Until then, I'll just be patient and stalk Gamestop's door....
- 2,013
- WNC
- TRLWNC
Along the lines of the seasonals, I wonder what online racing will pay out. I'm confident that they will pay out (PD would have to be BLAZINGLY stupid to not!), but will "Race for real" require an entry fee, and then will it pay more than "Race for fun"?
This is something I'm chomping on the bit to find out about!
Edit: Duh, don't double post......
This is something I'm chomping on the bit to find out about!
Edit: Duh, don't double post......
