Something Just DOESNT Quite Add up...
- Thread starter Leadfoot53
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- 164
Better hope this thing on the 24th brings good news and not bad.
- 164
I'm going to be busy playing my first taste of Forza 3 in 4 days. I'm excited.
Hoping for lots of GT5 info also to make it even better.
Hoping for lots of GT5 info also to make it even better.
CodeRedR51
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I'm sorry, but these threads with gripes about the damage are really starting to get on my nerves. WHO CARES ABOUT DAMAGE. God, if I see another one of these I'm going to have to bop that person upside the head. Just chill guys....jeez. Play the game for what it's meant to be played. GT is NOT the Ultimate Crash Simulator. It's the ultimate DRIVING simulator.
Pick a car, pick a track, and have fun.
/end rant.
Pick a car, pick a track, and have fun.
/end rant.
- 1,252
- Gottcha
You know, I kinda thought it might've been a marketing thing myself. It almost seems like PD and Sony HAD to show something at E3 because the eager fan base (us) was getting very very antsy. So they threw together a trailer just to tease us for awhile.
Then we got a lackluster but unexpected demo at GC, with no presentation during the Sony conference....just to wet our appetites even more.
To me it just seems like they've been planning this huge TGS unveiling the entire time....but had to throw together a couple of things just to keep people happy throughout the summer....just think if we had ZERO info up to this point, how crazy everyone would be.
That's how I see it, and though I'm trying to keep my expectations somewhat low, because everything everyone continues to mention I hope is in the game, but don't think all of it will make it. But if it does all end up in the game somehow...then I get to go crazy. I'm just happy that this TGS wait is almost over.
- 164
TGS could also be disappointing for a lot of people.
CodeRedR51
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People are going crazy with info anyway. People are NEVER happy.
- 518
- chepu_VE
So, you forgot that Gran Turismo Became Famous also because you could Tune/Modify Your Car to the point its a Full Race Machine?...Some people here like me doesnt like to Pick a car, pick a Track and Having "Fun", I also like to modify/adjust cars, just because i love how they work and the mechanic Stuff
Now, About Damage, I never Gave a **** about it, but its just ANNOYING that in Every Thread, theres someone Complaining/Talking about it.
- 2,796
- São Paulo
- Dravonic
You can't have the ultimate driving simulator without realistic damage. I'm sorry but you can't. Damage is a giant factor in driving and a driving simulator neglecting it can only give you a part of the driving experience.
Which is why GT now has damage and Kazunori wanted damage for quite some time.
- 164
Could just rename it to "Almost the ultimate driving simulator"... About as bad as Turn 10 calling theirs the definitive racing game.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
While this is true, whining about it endlessly is getting annoying. GT5 is too far along to hope that any amount of complaining is going to move a planet into a different orbit.
We are going to get what we are going to get, and it's time people either settled that in their minds or moved along, and gave us some peace.
- 4,323
My reading on that is that PD has a taken on a huge project and they are running into problems and delays left and right.
Kaz has always felt PD has carte blanch becase they are GT and GT is huge. So he just keeps plowing along with grandious plans, hitting snags and then either having to take longer to get around them or change the game plan.
He is tight lipped and vague because he knows footing is not sure at PD and anything might change. He needs to say somethings, but he needs to keep his option open depending on what they really can accomplish.
Kaz's "take as long as we need to get it right" mentality is stomped on by Sony who tell him, shape up and ship the product!
Kaz now has to scramble, some things on the table have to be finished, some have to rushed, some have to be cut entirely and some have to have concessions made (ie we only go part way with this idea).
I think that's why we are where we are, basically PD bit off more than they can chew this round and now have to face reality and deliver what they can.
So it seems where we are is:
Don't complain about things too far in advance, no one knows anything, wait for official announcements.
Then when you get close enough to release date, stop complaining because it's too late to change anything and you should just take what you get....
Seems like a great system, companies should just announce nothing until the last second, then it's too late to complain anymore so no one ever says anything negative about your product!
Look I know hearing negative stuff has to suck, especially if you are loyal GT fan, it might hit kind of personally, but if you really step back and look at it fairly and logically, the real solution to having less negative talk is to listen to what people want and then deliver it. How do you know how important something is to address? How much it gets voiced. And yes some particularly vocal people saying it over and over is still valuable because in anything important you will have those kind of people, so if you stop that kind of person from doing that, the problem willl seem much less important.
Listen to the complaints and dissapointments, act on them. Stop the problem, not the symptom.
Kaz has always felt PD has carte blanch becase they are GT and GT is huge. So he just keeps plowing along with grandious plans, hitting snags and then either having to take longer to get around them or change the game plan.
He is tight lipped and vague because he knows footing is not sure at PD and anything might change. He needs to say somethings, but he needs to keep his option open depending on what they really can accomplish.
Kaz's "take as long as we need to get it right" mentality is stomped on by Sony who tell him, shape up and ship the product!
Kaz now has to scramble, some things on the table have to be finished, some have to rushed, some have to be cut entirely and some have to have concessions made (ie we only go part way with this idea).
I think that's why we are where we are, basically PD bit off more than they can chew this round and now have to face reality and deliver what they can.
While this is true, whining about it endlessly is getting annoying. GT5 is too far along to hope that any amount of complaining is going to move a planet into a different orbit.
We are going to get what we are going to get, and it's time people either settled that in their minds or moved along, and gave us some peace.
So it seems where we are is:
Don't complain about things too far in advance, no one knows anything, wait for official announcements.
Then when you get close enough to release date, stop complaining because it's too late to change anything and you should just take what you get....
Seems like a great system, companies should just announce nothing until the last second, then it's too late to complain anymore so no one ever says anything negative about your product!
Look I know hearing negative stuff has to suck, especially if you are loyal GT fan, it might hit kind of personally, but if you really step back and look at it fairly and logically, the real solution to having less negative talk is to listen to what people want and then deliver it. How do you know how important something is to address? How much it gets voiced. And yes some particularly vocal people saying it over and over is still valuable because in anything important you will have those kind of people, so if you stop that kind of person from doing that, the problem willl seem much less important.
Listen to the complaints and dissapointments, act on them. Stop the problem, not the symptom.
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- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Deve, you have done very little but complain and stir up arguments. Now admittedly there are a few stubborn people here who hold onto some flimsy notions with a death grip, but we've gotten to the point that many of your posts would be exactly the same with a simple cut n paste. 
Well, let me add myself to the stack, in a sense.
170 premium cars
We simply don't know what this means.
20 tracks, 60 courses/variations/cheezeburgers
It's highly doubtful we'll get fewer tracks than were in GT4 and GT PSP, we'll see.
Damage build at GamesCom blows
1. We don't know what the final build will be.
2. It will have essentially zero effect on sales, most buyers will be satisfied with anything.
3. More than likely, many servers will have damage off anyhow.
4. I'm happy and not getting an ulcer over it.
Well, let me add myself to the stack, in a sense.
170 premium cars
We simply don't know what this means.
20 tracks, 60 courses/variations/cheezeburgers
It's highly doubtful we'll get fewer tracks than were in GT4 and GT PSP, we'll see.
Damage build at GamesCom blows
1. We don't know what the final build will be.
2. It will have essentially zero effect on sales, most buyers will be satisfied with anything.
3. More than likely, many servers will have damage off anyhow.
4. I'm happy and not getting an ulcer over it.
- 164
It's not a good sign when they say premium cars and mention interiors.
- 4,323
Deve, you have done very little but complain and stir up arguments. Now admittedly there are a few stubborn people here who hold onto some flimsy notions with a death grip, but we've gotten to the point that many of your posts would be exactly the same with a simple cut n paste.
Well, let me add myself to the stack, in a sense.
170 premium cars
We simply don't know what this means.
Yup, we are all speculating, I haven't changed much about what my educated guess is any time recently.
20 tracks, 60 courses/variations/cheezeburgers
It's highly doubtful we'll get fewer tracks than were in GT4 and GT PSP, we'll see.
Anythings possible... but we are at least hoping for the same thing
Damage build at GamesCom blows
1. We don't know what the final build will be.
Nope, at best we can speculate with educated guesses. That's a large part of what this forum is here for.
2. It will have essentially zero effect on sales, most buyers will be satisfied with anything.
That's an impossibe thing to prove with any reliability, but I will make an equally un(dis)proveable statement and say that while it would have near nill effect on sales this round, significant dissapointment won't be quickly forgotten and it would likely have some bearing on next round
3. More than likely, many servers will have damage off anyhow.
Can't argue with what's more than likely for many of anything...
4. I'm happy and not getting an ulcer over it.
I am happy you aren't suffering a painful ailment also.
Well I am nothing if not dependable right?
And of course I keep saying the same thing over and over again, I just keep saying what I think is most likely, most reasonable and most accurate.
I suppose if Einstein kept saying E=mC^2 over and over again at math conferences he would get flack for it?
BTW contribute! https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=120451
- 2,342
- Camboriu - Braz
- FASJ6418
I agree 110% with this. I complain about the game just because i want to help PD make a better game.
Very good post Devedander. As usual you look at things in a fair, unbiased way, I like that.👍
I too think that PD bit more than the could chew. They wasted too much time on special events like the Citroen Concept, GT PSP game, and even the display on the Nissan GTR R35 real life car. When FM3 showed it's game at E3 they panicked, because let's face it, none of us believed that FM3 would be this good. Now they're facing a struggling battle to try and release GT5 as soon as possible to meet the competition, which basically, is winning.
What could come of it? Well...
We may get improved damage and rollover to rival FM3 on all cars, tyre marks, interiors for all cars, undercarriage modellled, a good selection of aero parts, simple body colour paint shop, weight reduction reflected on interiors of cars and perhaps, drag racing. This wouldn't happen this year but the TGS feature list would have these things and a great trailer to show off the potential.
EDIT: If the above came true I'd pick GT5.
Chances of a livery editor as good as FM3, tyre deformation, dynamic weather and time of day, and improved smoke effects are very slim, in my opinion, due to development time and PS3 hardware constraints.
That was the best case scenario for me. They could rush it, have different quality car models, no improved damage or rollover and, once again, no tyre marks, I would also imagine undercarriage will also not be modelled if there will be no rollover in GT5. That would be very disappointing but, maybe, salvageable with patches and DLC. Lots of people with still buy it, but it would certainly give FM3 the upper hand. Not such a bad thing, PD and KY might actually start paying attention to us fans and give us what we've been asking for, so they can compete with the new emerging leader in console driving game franchises.
At this point it's anyone's guess. With PD's marketing strategy and lack of community spirit, it's difficult to form an opinion. I can only wish for a big improvement in this area as it's been really lacking.
I too think that PD bit more than the could chew. They wasted too much time on special events like the Citroen Concept, GT PSP game, and even the display on the Nissan GTR R35 real life car. When FM3 showed it's game at E3 they panicked, because let's face it, none of us believed that FM3 would be this good. Now they're facing a struggling battle to try and release GT5 as soon as possible to meet the competition, which basically, is winning.
What could come of it? Well...
We may get improved damage and rollover to rival FM3 on all cars, tyre marks, interiors for all cars, undercarriage modellled, a good selection of aero parts, simple body colour paint shop, weight reduction reflected on interiors of cars and perhaps, drag racing. This wouldn't happen this year but the TGS feature list would have these things and a great trailer to show off the potential.
EDIT: If the above came true I'd pick GT5.
Chances of a livery editor as good as FM3, tyre deformation, dynamic weather and time of day, and improved smoke effects are very slim, in my opinion, due to development time and PS3 hardware constraints.
That was the best case scenario for me. They could rush it, have different quality car models, no improved damage or rollover and, once again, no tyre marks, I would also imagine undercarriage will also not be modelled if there will be no rollover in GT5. That would be very disappointing but, maybe, salvageable with patches and DLC. Lots of people with still buy it, but it would certainly give FM3 the upper hand. Not such a bad thing, PD and KY might actually start paying attention to us fans and give us what we've been asking for, so they can compete with the new emerging leader in console driving game franchises.
At this point it's anyone's guess. With PD's marketing strategy and lack of community spirit, it's difficult to form an opinion. I can only wish for a big improvement in this area as it's been really lacking.
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CodeRedR51
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For me it's not, because I don't hit anything. If you don't either, then why does having damage matter so much?
Do you see any of the auto manufacturers asking Turn10 for their input in designing cars and/or automotive applications for cars? No. Why not? Because they look to the experts for opinions and help. Kaz is, by far, the master of racing game development in this generation.
- 164
For me it's not, because I don't hit anything. If you don't either, then why does having damage matter so much?
Do you see any of the auto manufacturers asking Turn10 for their input in designing cars and/or automotive applications for cars? No. Why not? Because they look to the experts for opinions and help. Kaz is, by far, the master of racing game development in this generation.
Yeah, but do you see his fans playing his game next month no. Turn 10 gets stuff done and out.
Considering FM franchise is only a third as old as the GT franchise, considering the amazing things like tyre deformation, rollover and driving physics FM3...
KY was the master in my eyes, before GT4... The constant delays of the game developement of GT4, the failed promises and constant short comings, like lack of online. Adding to the the travesty that GT5 development has been so far. Adding to that the fact he constanly says things that he then doesn't deliver, like the simulation of damage so far that was supposed to be second to none. Adding to that all the different release expectation dates of GT5 from as far back as 2007. I'd say that's more the work of a master conman, not a master racing game developer. He's scrambling now though!
Hot air keeps climbing so much before it cools down and comes down to earth, and KY is full of hot air. Don't get me wrong though, I will forever be thankful to him for GT1-3. But he needs to get real and meet the competition if he's to regain the trust of many he's lost.I trust ZERO of what KY says until I see it with my own two eyes in the actual game.
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- 4,323
Really... you never hit anything... ever... that's frickin amazing!
Not yet...
BTW, you spelled "last generation".
This generation is still in the air, although I think the belt won't be passing... but next generation? I would be putting my nose to the grindstone if I were PD because depending on how this release plays out, next generation might well be PDs hail mary.
CodeRedR51
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Kaz is a perfectionist. No way he will release a full game every two years.
Considering FM franchise is only a third as old as the GT franchise, considering the amazing things like tyre deformation, rollover and driving physics FM3...
KY was the master in my eyes, before GT4... The constant delays of the game developement of GT4, the failed promises and constant short comings, like lack of online. Adding to the the travesty that GT5 development has been so far. Adding to that the fact he constanly says things that he then doesn't deliver, like the simulation of damage so far that was supposed to be second to none. Adding to that all the different release expectation dates of GT5 from as far back as 2007. I'd say that more the work of a master conman, not a master racing game developer. He's scrambling now though!
I trust ZERO of what KY says until I see it with my own two eyes in the actual game.
1)Lack of online? Have you played GT5P? Some of the most competitive online racing I have ever competed in. Including anything I have played on my old XBOX.
2)Release expectations are just that, expectations made up by game stores or online gaming sites. They are not confirmed dates that keep getting delayed, so I don't see a problem with it.
3)Scrambling? Hardly. As much as he has been traveling around lately to automotive shows, etc. My guess is that he's already looking for ideas for DLC.
4)I'm sure in his eyes he has no competition.
CodeRedR51
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Really... you never hit anything... ever... that's frickin amazing!
I don't. Want to set up a race online?
There are many people on here and the PS forums that can vouch for my driving skills. I honestly think GT5 is the last one. It can be constantly updated with DLC, no need to create another game for quite a while. Plus, Kaz has stated that he would like to move on to other things.
- 164
Being a perfectionist is one thing, but you can't just take your time and never release the game. I'm sure on the PS3 they have no competition, but people can always get a box and play some Forza.
CodeRedR51
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If you're the game developer, why not? Obviously Sony trusts him enough to release one hell of a game to let him take as long as he wants. For every impatient fan that gets tired of waiting and switches, when the game is released he will pick up two in their place.
- 4,323
GT1 1997
GT2 1999
GT3 2001
If you want to consider GT4P and 5P
GT4P 2003
GT4 2005
GT5P 2007
Hmmmm...
I wouldn't be surprised if jetsetting and side projects aren't WHY he is scrambling. I think TGS may reveal some features that appear to have not had enough time to develop.
I wonder if DLC will be $$$?
I am sure he is not that naive.
I don't. Want to set up a race online?
What if I hit you?
Ummm... unless Sony is forcing him to release now alongside PS3 slim... which would seem kind of likely considering Kaz is a perfectionist but is releasing a game with damage still a work in progress...
- 103
- FatLeadFoot
Damage for the sake of seeing crumpled hoods, doors flying open and rollovers is kid's stuff. And when was the last time you were watching an actual race and they showed tire deformation? Le Mans, Sebring or how about 24hrs of Daytona? Doesn't happen does it? All of the "visual goodies" everyone is hoping for is BS.
Mechanical damage, now that's important. How a car handles after a collision is what's going to make a game more realistic. I hope PD isn't taking extra time trying to coddle to all the little kiddies in the crowd that want to see flying parts. Now that would suck.
And as far as hitting objects while racing, very rarely do I hit something unless I'm trying to.
Mechanical damage, now that's important. How a car handles after a collision is what's going to make a game more realistic. I hope PD isn't taking extra time trying to coddle to all the little kiddies in the crowd that want to see flying parts. Now that would suck.
And as far as hitting objects while racing, very rarely do I hit something unless I'm trying to.
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