Sound Improvements for GT5?

  • Thread starter SaintLuke
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Mr P510
I think the big problem with PDs sounds are that they record the engines at idle and increase that note according to engine revs.
I'm kinda guessing here but if thats the case then the sound will never be solid and right.
They need to be recorded under LOAD i.e full throttle and at various levels of throttle position.
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Recording a car on a dyno isnt an option, the dyno winding is a big noise.
 
There are many diffrent types of dynos and the latest ones are very quiet,that coupled with sound isolation technology could accurately record the sound of an engine under load.
 
kikie
Ooooohh yes, absolutely! :grumpy:
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Thank you for this information! Although not so happy with it. Btw : ik ben op 30km van Tongeren :)

Those air horns and crowd cheering are a pain in the ass, especially during replays. I don't understand why there is so little reaction against it on this forum.

Probably few people watch replays .... or they're happy to take whatever is available that makes them feel part of the crowd. :ill:

The day my house is rebuilt, I might buy a PS3 and GT5 if there are at least some tracks without crowd cheering noises.

In GT4, I spent 100s of hours on the Nürburgring and Motorland because it were the only tracks with only engine sounds. I almost did not drive on the others, such a waste.
 
Even if they do record under load, the simple matter of recording is not that simple :)
Not only do they have to record from in-car, they also have to record what it would sound like from every different driving position (bumper, behind). Replicating enginenoise, and exhaust notes, from different positions, would mean a huge undertaking from PD´s side if we expect up to a 1000 cars for GT5.

I´m actually pretty happy with the way it is right now. A 5.1 system is my least recommendation though.
 
Joey D
As I've said the MINI Cooper S doesn't sound real at all. There is no supercharge whine or the popping from the exhaust when you let off the throttle like there is in real life. I can't really comment on the other cars because I only have four right now with the MINI being the only one I have driven in real life before.
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The new mini doesnt have a supercharger, it has a turbo.


kikie
PS2? :confused: Maybe it's a typo.

I play GT5p on a 7.1 sound system from Creative and the sound effects are great. Now they need to improve the quality of the sound.
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I hate to ruin this one for you but the game i believe only puts out Dolby Digital instead of Digital EX or 7.1. It is my belief that 7.1 is not recorded but is simulated from a digital source. 5.1 or 7.10 is not the same as Dolby or DTS as 5.1 0r 7.1 is where the piece of equipment reading the media at stage one decodes the signal and passes it out using RCA connections. Digital or DTS is given out using either a digital coax cable or a tos link connection or the latest is using an HDMI that is version 1.2 or later. 1.1 did not feed an audio signal.
Todays lesson is complete :)
 
racerboyjamie
ummm... what are Dynos? lol
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Big animals from millions of years ago!

thefraggle
I hate to ruin this one for you but the game i believe only puts out Dolby Digital instead of Digital EX or 7.1. It is my belief that 7.1 is not recorded but is simulated from a digital source. 5.1 or 7.10 is not the same as Dolby or DTS as 5.1 0r 7.1 is where the piece of equipment reading the media at stage one decodes the signal and passes it out using RCA connections. Digital or DTS is given out using either a digital coax cable or a tos link connection or the latest is using an HDMI that is version 1.2 or later. 1.1 did not feed an audio signal.
Todays lesson is complete :)
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I really don't understand what you're talking about :guilty: but my 7.1 system gives nice sound effects although GT5p only outputs 5.1.

Mine is the creative T7900.
 
thefraggle
I hate to ruin this one for you but the game i believe only puts out Dolby Digital instead of Digital EX or 7.1. It is my belief that 7.1 is not recorded but is simulated from a digital source. 5.1 or 7.10 is not the same as Dolby or DTS as 5.1 0r 7.1 is where the piece of equipment reading the media at stage one decodes the signal and passes it out using RCA connections. Digital or DTS is given out using either a digital coax cable or a tos link connection or the latest is using an HDMI that is version 1.2 or later. 1.1 did not feed an audio signal.
Todays lesson is complete :)
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Yes, GT5P does not include Dolby Digital EX audio, but it most definitely does include 5.1 Dolby Digital audio, and far better than that, it includes 7.1 PCM audio. Which is arguably the highest quality audio format available, as it is an uncompressed transparent copy to the master recordings (aka "lossless") ... which is something a Dolby Digital, DD-EX, standard DTS, DTS-ES can't do, as they are all lossy (not to be mistaken with lousy... although most audiophiles will say lossy = lousy) audio formats.

Furthermore, your explanations of what "Dolby" and "DTS" are seems somewhat bizarre. First of all they are just companies, each with several different types of audio codecs. Most of which are all lossy audio formats.

Secondly, you are quite mistaken over the cables needed and why - especially on the limitations of the different versions of HDMI.

Both Dolby and DTS have developed and released compressed versions of PCM called Dolby True HD and DTS-HD respectively. If the player is not used to decode these "HD" compressed audio codecs, then you need an external audio processor that not only has an HDMI 1.3 input, but also has the Dolby True HD and/or DTS-HD decoders.

However, the PS3 does have both these decoders, and thus whether a game or film comes with an uncompressed PCM track or a Dolby True HD or DTS HD track, any version of HDMI will be able to transfer any of these audio signals to the external processor/receiver.

In the case of GT5P, it comes with arguably the best audio format in terms of lossless master quality audio (PCM), and in 7.1 channels. If you have a system that allows you to listen to it, and you have it properly set-up, and you still can't hear the difference, then either you have something wrong with your system, or something is wrong with your hearing. :nervous:


For those who do not have a receiver/audio processor with HDMI, then your second best option when playing GT5P is to set the PS3 to output a 5.1 Dolby Digital (same as most DVDs) over digital optical. 👍

I would also change the audio settings in GT5P to "Large Theater", but try all three settings to find which one is best suited to your system and room.


UPDATE: Page 9 of the GT5P manual:

GT5Paudio.jpg
 
thefraggle,
I appreciate your attempt and can follow your logic, but there are some assumptions that you are making. Please refer to Digital-Nitrate's crash course for more precise details of the audio characteristics of how the PS3 and GT5 use DD, DTS, and PCM audio formats. One might make the comparison that MP3 is to CD's, as DD 5.1 (or EX 7.1) and DTS 5.1 (or ES 7.1) is to PCM Lossless 5.1 (or 7.1).
 
i totally understand why the replies i got were made but the only reason why i didnt go into a detailed explanation of things is because the thread isnt about that and didnt want to spend ages typing it out as i am not the most accurate typer as i am sure people are aware. Please be aware that i am aware of the different audio systems that are out there and am Cedia certified. No point baffling the masses with science as i am sure only a limited number of people would be entirely interested in audio compression and the different signals which can be put out by various machines.
my bad for posting like i did. I thank you for correcting me on the HDMI audio transfer though asi was only aware that V1.2 and higher could pass a multi channel signal.


sorry for taking this topic off in another direction.
 
I think audio formats and their implementation, along with the listening environment can have a major effect on the sound quality of the game, which is what this thread is about. The original poster was making comments on the sound from a highly over compressed video he watched online, probably over some computer speakers. Not exactly the ideal listening environment to make critical judgments of the sound quality of the game. Understanding the limits of bandwidth, frequency range, dynamics, room design and treatment, speaker placement, and audio characteristics can help aid in this discussion of what improvements can be made. I can say from my experience, going from a DD 5.1 (my old receiver would also pass audio to all four surrounds for non-discrete 7.1) to a PCM 7.1 discrete being processed on my new receiver offers a whole new experience of realism to the sounds in the game.
 
thefraggle
can we remove our posts about the audio and get it back to where it was before?
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I appreciate your desire to keep the thread on topic, which is always a good thing, but I think this is relevant to the thread.

After all, it's important to distinguish the reference point of the listener and the opinion they have based on that. I still get shocked when I see people referencing highly compressed YouTube videos with terrible audio recordings and no indication on how the sound was recorded, or the car set-up, or the environmental conditions that would affect the sound recording as some kind of proof to the "realism" of how a car in a game "should" sound like.

Also, depending on the audio system a person is using and how they have it set up, will most certainly effect their opinion on the "quality" of the sound.

So, no, I think this is very much on topic and certainly relevant to the discussion.


Of course, for those that have a hard time understanding it can always skip to the next post... but I hope those that are sharing their opinions on how good or bad sounds are, take the time to better understand how sounds are recorded, and how they may change depending on the audio system they have and how they have it set up.
 
To listen to 5.1 PCM via HDMI, do I have to de-select DD5.1 in the PS3 audio set-up, or will the PS3 select 5.1 PCM by default.

I have the PS3 decoding all audio to PCM (for Blu-ray TrueHD/DTS-HDMA) so my Onkyo reciever always displays Multi-channel 5.1 PCM, whether the source is DD or PCM. Unlike Blu-ray you cannot see which audio stream is being used by pressing the display button on the PS3 remote.

Edit, figured it out, games select PCM automatically if using HDMI.
 
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ever since the update the new sounds acualy sound beafier and throughtyer(not a word) i can honestly say now, it dosent sound like the engine is in the exhaust.... witch was very werid, also now you can hear many types of new sounds while in incar veiw
like blow off valves, dump valves, transmission whines, etc... so my take i have to say driving in chase cam is a must now.
 
I just had my first SimBin experience. I installed the STCC demo on my sister's computer (mine is totally out of date) and plugged in my DFP (the pedals are screwed so I had to reconnect the pedal cable all the time).

However, I realized how important the sound effects in a racing simulator are and SimBin are really good at it. The engine sounds themselves are not too good perhaps, but everything surounding them is what makes it so good. The shifting noise and tranmission whine for example is awesome and makes it feel so alive.

This is how the transmission whine should be like on race cars in GT5.


For you who want to know, it's the royal prince of Sweden, Prince Carl Philip racing in Carrera Cup Scandinavia.
 
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Nice video, kudos for the prince!

Yes, I play Race 07/GTR Evo, sounds good, sounds are not that HD as in GT5P, but they have a lot of noises going on, and they are perfectly balanced, something PD needs to do... more balancing.
 
most of the cars in GT5 are not racing cars though

and you know what a street car should sound like - very flat and muffled :)
 
CoolColJ
most of the cars in GT5 are not racing cars though

and you know what a street car should sound like - very flat and muffled :)
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Yeah, I know. The sounds of the cars in GT5P so far is very decent I think. But I really hope they make the race car sounds spot on in the full game!
 
Despite formats, audio set ups etc, The GT series has always lacked good enigne sound quality. There are certain cars that sound good, and almost realistic but the majority of the engine/exhaust sounds are not up to much, especial for a so called next generation system.

Some talk about how hard it is to record sounds, this may be true, but it has not stopped other developers from producing good sounds. EA have always produce good engine notes on any of racing series they have made. I can name a few on the PS2 that sound better than GT5P.

And yes, a dyno is the best way to capture an engine sound. The car is stationary, you can load the engine. Just go on to youtube, and see type in dyno run, and listen to how good the sound is from capturing the sound from a mobile phone. Of course, recording an engine note, at varying RPMS and then transfering it to a game, is not that simple, but almost everybody else has done a better job than PD, and many of these other car games are not even racing sims but arcade games, and they certainly don't take themselves as seriously as PD do!!

I will be really dissapointed if GT5 engine notes are not at least compariable to Forza 2.

For any petrol head, the sound is almost as important as the driving itself. God I dread the day when we are all forced to drive electric cars!!
 
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I can understand that they cant record sounds for all of the cars.
But the thing is that they used 1 sound for different cars in GT4, especially race cars and if they would have at least used 1 good sound for those cars, it wouldnt be a problem.
 
GTp's sound is good but definitely needs improvement. Listen to the background when you're parked in the garage at Fuji, just before a time trial. There are some recordings of revving cars that should give one an idea of how much 'depth' is missing in PDs effort.

I remember an interview with KY where he said that they don't drive almost all of the cars featured in GT, but just get photos( interior etc.) and sound samples( not under load obviously ). I'm sure sound would be better if recorded under load, but it is understandably a logistical nightmare.

The thing is Forza has created a better sound set that doesn't need 5.1 dolby and so forth, to sound great. I just think that PDs sound technicians aren't as talented as Turn 10s, and the likelyhood of PD replacing those technicians in the quest for better sound is almost nil, due to their integral part in GTs development process over the years.
I therefore think the GT5 sound will be tweaked a little but will still fall short of what we want..unfortunately.
 
African Kat
GTp's sound is good but definitely needs improvement. Listen to the background when you're parked in the garage at Fuji, just before a time trial. There are some recordings of revving cars that should give one an idea of how much 'depth' is missing in PDs effort.

I remember an interview with KY where he said that they don't drive almost all of the cars featured in GT, but just get photos( interior etc.) and sound samples( not under load obviously ). I'm sure sound would be better if recorded under load, but it is understandably a logistical nightmare.

The thing is Forza has created a better sound set that doesn't need 5.1 dolby and so forth, to sound great. I just think that PDs sound technicians aren't as talented as Turn 10s, and the likelyhood of PD replacing those technicians in the quest for better sound is almost nil, due to their integral part in GTs development process over the years.
I therefore think the GT5 sound will be tweaked a little but will still fall short of what we want..unfortunately.
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You make a point that I almost always forget to mention. It seems like PD knows what good sounds ARE, but they can't seem to implement it into a moving car for some reason....and I just don't get it.

Like you said, you can hear race cars in the background on race menu screens, and even in some of their promotional videos the sounds are quite impressive. But for whatever reason, they can't seem to transfer that same sound depth to the cars in the game. Don't get me wrong, they're getting better, but some cars still seem to fall short.

Here is what I think we should hear in GT5 though, but I'm skeptical if the sound will get to this point. Anyone remember the sound of the SuperGT 350z in one of prologue's original promo videos? If PD can get sound like that in the video, why can't they implement it into real time? I'm hoping that's the quality we get, but we shall see I guess.
 
If you have heard the F430 or Ford GT in real life you would realize that GT5p does not capture the ferocity of their respective engines. Inside, the GT sounds right (I have been in one) but outside the real car sounds like Thor gargling nails (just epic). In GT5p it just sound ok.
 
PAPPACLART
...but almost everybody else has done a better job than PD, and many of these other car games are not even racing sims but arcade games, and they certainly don't take themselves as seriously as PD do!
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This is true. What is the problem with PD doing engine sounds? No doubt they have improved, but they're still a way off most racing games.

As recording the sounds of hundreds of cars is a logistical nightmare, I wonder if PD could appeal to their fans...? Somehow get us involved in the sound recording process! :)
 
After GT5 Prologue sound results, I would fire whole sound team immediately and employ the people who know how to get the sound in GT on par with wonderful graphics. There's no other way there. If Kazunori will still drift on nostalgy wave, many aspects of the game as sound and AI will stay the similar way to GT1, just prehistoric way good only to laugh. I can't understand this ignorancy.
 

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