CodeRedR51
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Space In General
- Thread starter BubbleBelly542
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Well, these aren't retrorockets. They are the same engines used for the boost phase. As far as I can think of, the last American manned spacecraft to use retrorockets (that were specifically retrorockets and nothing else) was Gemini.
Granted, they need to keep enough fuel to land, but the Falcon has had several launches with the booster expended so the landing fuel became payload weight. With the payload capacity designed from the start with that fuel accounted for, it feels like a non-issue.
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Danoff
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America conducts the vast majority of the world's space exploration.
Missions like Cassini and Juno come from international cooperation, but primarily from NASA.
The exploration of our solar system is not just a stunt. From it we learn how our solar system formed, how our Earth formed, what the chemical composition of worlds looks like, and how it evolves. Planetary science within our solar system helps us learn about climate change, and the origins of our species. It is some of the most awe-inspiring and important research we do. And we may have peaked.
There is talk of the Trump administration, at the hands of Elon Musk, gutting NASA. Essentially turning it into a glorified contractor for Space X to potentially maybe someday do something with Mars. This would be a major setback for humanity. And as much as humanity is being set back by the Trump administration in so many ways, from women's rights and fetal and pregnancy research and medical development, to climate change, and well beyond, one of the things at stake is whether humanity has reached its peak in terms of space exploration for many decades.
There is an army of scientists and engineers that are all top of their field pushing at the very edge of what humanity can do. Inventing ion propulsion techniques to carry us to explore the corners of our solar system. It all gets gutted if Elon and MTG take a hatchet to NASA. And make no mistake, that is on their minds.
I don't know how much can be done about any of this. But what I do know is that this is one of many ways that the Trump administration threatens to take humanity backward, and will leave us wondering how long it will take to get back to where we've been for the last few decades. Where we're going does not look promising.
Missions like Cassini and Juno come from international cooperation, but primarily from NASA.
The exploration of our solar system is not just a stunt. From it we learn how our solar system formed, how our Earth formed, what the chemical composition of worlds looks like, and how it evolves. Planetary science within our solar system helps us learn about climate change, and the origins of our species. It is some of the most awe-inspiring and important research we do. And we may have peaked.
There is talk of the Trump administration, at the hands of Elon Musk, gutting NASA. Essentially turning it into a glorified contractor for Space X to potentially maybe someday do something with Mars. This would be a major setback for humanity. And as much as humanity is being set back by the Trump administration in so many ways, from women's rights and fetal and pregnancy research and medical development, to climate change, and well beyond, one of the things at stake is whether humanity has reached its peak in terms of space exploration for many decades.
There is an army of scientists and engineers that are all top of their field pushing at the very edge of what humanity can do. Inventing ion propulsion techniques to carry us to explore the corners of our solar system. It all gets gutted if Elon and MTG take a hatchet to NASA. And make no mistake, that is on their minds.
I don't know how much can be done about any of this. But what I do know is that this is one of many ways that the Trump administration threatens to take humanity backward, and will leave us wondering how long it will take to get back to where we've been for the last few decades. Where we're going does not look promising.
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It's not about taking humanity backwards, rather finding the best way for certain individuals to make as much money as possible off the back of national institutions that will cost them nothing to muscle in on and their friends in government will practically hand over the keys to.
Same in the UK.
We voted for it, too, over and over.
Some may argue that whether motivated by jingoistic / hegemonic ideals born from imperialist ambition; or simply capitalism in its basest form, if we get to Mars anyway, does it actually matter?
Science for science's sake is going the way of alchemy. Researching ion drives for Mars and beyond is the new lead-into-gold. Good work while it lasts.
How do you make people care about that when they're struggling to make ends meet, and their thoughts are funneled from all angles to focus on the modern equivalents of "bread and circus"?
Same in the UK.
We voted for it, too, over and over.
Some may argue that whether motivated by jingoistic / hegemonic ideals born from imperialist ambition; or simply capitalism in its basest form, if we get to Mars anyway, does it actually matter?
Science for science's sake is going the way of alchemy. Researching ion drives for Mars and beyond is the new lead-into-gold. Good work while it lasts.
How do you make people care about that when they're struggling to make ends meet, and their thoughts are funneled from all angles to focus on the modern equivalents of "bread and circus"?
Danoff
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This isn't about America.
Nobody but NASA is doing much interplanetary exploration. There are some examples, but they pale in comparison. NASA almost exclusively represents humanity's interplanetary exploration. If that goes away, I have no doubt that humanity will soldier on, but without one of its grandest endeavors.
I don't know what you mean by "get to Mars". Humanity has a presence at mars now. I think you might mean "put people on mars", and while that would be an impressive stunt and maybe a landmark in terms of human achievement, it mostly would be a stunt and a landmark.
Ion drives have enabled successful missions to fly and explore in places we simply could not have otherwise. It's not a fiction, it has happened, and it has furthered the basis of human knowledge. In some sense, it can't be taken away. But if we can't push further, it feels like we've peaked.
It has always been a problem. One way to do it is to honestly address the problem of people struggling to make ends meet. Then maybe they can be more easily inspired to get behind the progress we can make as a species.
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It looked like you were using Mars and ion drives as generic markers for scientific progress.
If you change my statement to "if progress is still made, does it matter the motivation?"
They will still need ion propulsion research for their potentially nefarious ends, and they will still continue to litter Mars.
I personally think it does matter if the motivation isn't pure science, but then I'm an idealist stuck in a cynical world.
The problem is people voted for this. They're struggling to make ends meet and voted to likely make it worse for themselves anyway.
It starts with education, but that has always been a tool of the state first and is a great "emancipator" only if you learn to figure it out for yourself. I say emancipator, but really ignorance can indeed be bliss...
If you change my statement to "if progress is still made, does it matter the motivation?"
They will still need ion propulsion research for their potentially nefarious ends, and they will still continue to litter Mars.
I personally think it does matter if the motivation isn't pure science, but then I'm an idealist stuck in a cynical world.
The problem is people voted for this. They're struggling to make ends meet and voted to likely make it worse for themselves anyway.
It starts with education, but that has always been a tool of the state first and is a great "emancipator" only if you learn to figure it out for yourself. I say emancipator, but really ignorance can indeed be bliss...
UKMikey
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Elon Musk's SpaceX wins $843,000,000 contract to destroy the International Space Station
The ISS will switch its lights off in 2030
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How much you want to bet he instead buys it out, renames it the X Station and suckers even more investors to keep it limping along well past its point of safe operation?Elon Musk's SpaceX wins $843,000,000 contract to destroy the International Space Station
The ISS will switch its lights off in 2030www.unilad.com
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NASA is dead - at least the parts that don't involve Mars or monetizing space, and even those will be gradually shifted to the private sector
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CodeRedR51
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Old news? NASA made this announcement in June.Elon Musk's SpaceX wins $843,000,000 contract to destroy the International Space Station
The ISS will switch its lights off in 2030
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They started the inauguration fireworks a bit early
news.sky.com
SpaceX debris streaks across sky after failed Starship test flight
The rocket broke apart shortly after take-off with the remnants lighting up the sky above the Turks and Caicos.
Clinton Ducks
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They can flex all they want monitoring near Earth asteroids that might wipe out all of humanity
Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer - Wikipedia
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Clinton Ducks
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They can flex all they want monitoring near Earth asteroids that might wipe out all of humanity
Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Even if they detect one there’s not a whole lot they can do about it. I’d rather not know!
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That's not actually true, though even if it was it would remain beneficial to know about the threat. Orbital timescales can vary from days to lifetimes. We might detect an asteroid far enough in advance to allow us to develop the technology to defend ourselves from it. There are also a range of impact scenarios. If an asteroid could not be prevented from impacting at all but its damage was limited to a specific region, we could call for an evacuation and save lives.
But as it turns out we're not powerless against asteroids:
Double Asteroid Redirection Test - Wikipedia
NASA and other space agencies have increasing contributed to the long term survival of all of us. They serve very valid and important purposes and shouldn't be cut lightly.
Clinton Ducks
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Well ok, fair enough. Scanning the skies for asteroids, there’s probably not much profit in that so maybe world governments should be responsible for that aspect.
However as far as manned exploration goes, I’d imagine space tourism has a far bigger potential to drive things forward than just the USA, Russia and now China trying to get one up on each other.
However as far as manned exploration goes, I’d imagine space tourism has a far bigger potential to drive things forward than just the USA, Russia and now China trying to get one up on each other.
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There is a lot more than that. Space weather is becoming increasingly important as we rely more and more on technology that can be impacted by it:
Homepage | NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center
Carrington Event - Wikipedia
Space exploration is also what led to GPS and now we're looking toward space to provide additional energy and raw material. We've used space to conduct biology research that is difficult to do on Earth and while you mention competition is has also been a driver for international cooperation. Studying other planets tells us about Earth because of how the solar system formed and the similarities between planets and studying systems besides our own also informs us about the solar system because stars form in specific ways.
Space tourism is certainly interesting but doesn't provide much of value. It's essentially lagging behind national space exploration and it's unlikely to ever pull ahead of it (barring massive budget cuts) because sending people into deep space is more of a novelty than anything else. Going beyond Earth orbit with a human payload means extra weight, cost, and complexity. You also need to plan a return trip because we don't have anywhere to place people besides Earth. Probes are just better.
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You reckon space tourism is more motivating that the national urge to stick their flag on unclaimed land?
Hm.
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Keef
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Here's a map of all the flights that were disrupted because of this. This is the business time of the year for carribbean airspace. Several flights had to divert for fuel limitations.They started the inauguration fireworks a bit early
SpaceX debris streaks across sky after failed Starship test flight
The rocket broke apart shortly after take-off with the remnants lighting up the sky above the Turks and Caicos.
Roo
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I'm unconvinced that the space industry would be better off as a tool for wealthy individuals to flex at each other.
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I don't think hotels in general are really profitable enough to base an entire space exploration industry around. In fact, absolutely nothing is profitable enough to base a space industry around, that's the whole problem. If you only consider profit, there are thousands of better things to be doing.
Capitalism is only "working" for the space exploration industry because the governments are giving massive grants to the private companies. They're not profitable in and of themselves, they require propping up. So it's really just the same as when it was a government agency, but with more opportunity for enriching people who are already rich and powerful.
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You'll have to excuse the low quality of these photos, they're phone photos taken at the highest zoom level and when i couldn't see the screen well as the sun was directly over my shoulder. So a case of click and hope for the best.
Was just out walking the dogs at lunch, looking up at the very clear sky at a group of half a dozen or so paragliders (which you don't usually see actually over the city) There were a pair of buzzards hovering over us too, so all focus was on the sky. I was watching one particular glider when i noticed a small dot just sat there not moving. I then noticed another, slightly fainter one close by.
I'm assuming they're stars or planets, but i didn't think it was possible to see them during the day with the naked eye unless it was twilight?
In case its not obvious, the white sploge in the top left corner is the paraglider banking. The smaller pale sploge near the centre and the one very faint* one to the right of it, are the stars/planets.
They look like nothing in this poor quality photo, but they were really noticeable to the naked eye and what the camera didn't pick up was a faint halo around the brighter dot.
*the smaller one to the right actually faded out totally just after i took this, which i took to be atmospheric issue.
Was just out walking the dogs at lunch, looking up at the very clear sky at a group of half a dozen or so paragliders (which you don't usually see actually over the city) There were a pair of buzzards hovering over us too, so all focus was on the sky. I was watching one particular glider when i noticed a small dot just sat there not moving. I then noticed another, slightly fainter one close by.
I'm assuming they're stars or planets, but i didn't think it was possible to see them during the day with the naked eye unless it was twilight?
In case its not obvious, the white sploge in the top left corner is the paraglider banking. The smaller pale sploge near the centre and the one very faint* one to the right of it, are the stars/planets.
They look like nothing in this poor quality photo, but they were really noticeable to the naked eye and what the camera didn't pick up was a faint halo around the brighter dot.
*the smaller one to the right actually faded out totally just after i took this, which i took to be atmospheric issue.
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Joey D
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You can see some planets during the day when conditions are right. I believe Venus is the easiest to see during the day, but if I remember right, you can sometimes see Jupiter and Mars as well. The best thing to do would be to put in your location to a sky chart and roughly the time you saw the object, then view it in the direction you were looking. It would be able to tell you what you likely saw.
It could also be a high altitude balloon since they kind of look like white blobs in the sky. I don't see any ADS-B data for a high altitude balloon over the UK, but they're not always track or able to be tracked.
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It was looking NE at approx 30-50 degrees from the horizon at just after 1pm. None of the star charts show any planets, except for maybe Mars, around at that time.
Ursa Major constellation would have been in that approximate location at that time, so could have possibly been a couple of those stars, but i think its unlikely you'd see them with the naked eye at that time of day.
At first i thought it may have been a balloon, but as there were two of them quite close and didn't appear to be moving, neither in location in the sky or away from each other, i ruled that out. There were plenty of commercial aircraft visible too, one of which passed by the dots close enough to see that the dots were much further away.
