Sport modes biggest failing for the slow to average driver.

[Mr616]

First link:

• Fair matches - Each team is roughly the same skill

Second link:

Valve has stated that matchmaking tries to fulfil several criteria:

• The teams are balanced. (Each team has a 50% chance to win.)

GT-Sports community:

• Git gud

Hahaha, thank you anyway, at least you clicked the links.. and ignored everything about them, but hey...

Have you played those games or just read about them? I think you're living in dreamland if I'm honest and comparing matchmaking in team games is Apples n Oranges imo.

FFA in all shooters has always had slightly mismatched games for the same reasons we have here in GTS. Racing is far less popular than shooters so the online PvP population is far higher.

Keep trying though. I'm done with this.

If theere are only x2 DR:C in your lobby, aim to beat the other C or even the B drivers. Compete with what is put in front of you.

You said it's not about winning so just race.

 

[Woodybobs]

And I guess Madden has no previous template with both NCAA college and NFL football broadcast and audience?

What about Fifa and siccer? There is no template for for broadcasting TV of the game of soccer?

What about major league baseball, I guess they have no template for tv broadcasting as well?

What about golf and the template of the PGA

And sim racing has an advantage in e-sports over other genre video games because?

Factor in the much larger potential audiences these sports have in the mainstream over motorsports.

Ask the average citizen who is Tiger Woods and then ask the average citizen who is Lewis Hamilton and then what they do for a living and see what percentage of mainstream knows which one.

Motorsports as a whole has a much smaller mainstream fan base now that it did years ago. Back then ask anyone who Mario Andretti was and they would know. Today not so much so again the sports with the largest mainstream fan base are the ones that may cash in on the e-sports not the niche markets in my opinion.

Those games don't mimic their real life counterparts as much as sim racing. The somewhat scipted nature of other sports games does mean that they can't follow TV broadcasts as closely. Sim racing has the potential to be as/more exciting than real motorsport. I'm not saying that FIFA/madden etc. players will all become sim racing fans. However eRacing could interest motorsport fans more than eSoccer interests football fans. There's a lot of coulds and maybes involved here but even if the sim racing market doesn't grow the developers within it will still be fighting over the market available to them.

 

[kilesa4568]

Motorsports as a whole has a much smaller mainstream fan base now that it did years ago. Back then ask anyone who Mario Andretti was and they would know. Today not so much so again the sports with the largest mainstream fan base are the ones that may cash in on the e-sports not the niche markets in my opinion.

Sad but true. We know most of the protagonists in GTS already and want to see them race each other in tournaments (I do anyway) but I don't think we'll see people from outside of the hardcore player base watching it. To make it work, PD will need some major incentives to get big names from other racing titles entering.

 

[Sander 001]

Sim racing has an advantage over other genres when it comes to eSports because the template for broadcasting has already been set by TV broadcasting of motorsports. There is potential to grab a larger market share.

I think that’s why sim racing is at a huge disadvantage because motor sport fans are already watching real motor sports. CSGO, Overwatch, DOTA etc., viewers are watching something completely unique and unavailable in the real world.

 

[Groundfish]

Am I reading the the stats site wrong under new players since game release by week?
Around 50k or so average? Last one says 72k new players in a week? Week 24 120k? Whaa? Did I miss a decimal point?
Must be making a mistake in what I am looking at. So around 3 percent of those are predicted to play sport mode at some point?
Some stat person can you explain what I am missing?

 

[MatskiMonk]

However eRacing could interest motorsport fans more than eSoccer interests football fan

I'm not so sure about that. I've been a keen fan of Gran Turismo since the beginning, and I'm very much a fan of motorsports - yet I can't imagine a bigger waste of time than watching people race in GT Sport. To me, it's simply not as good as the real thing in any respect, so why bother? Part of the problem it has IMHO, is trying to mimic something we already have, if it offered something unique as a viewing experience then maybe there'd be an incentive. As it stands, I can't seeing it appeal to anybody who isn't already attempting to compete in an esport.

 

[Woodybobs]

I can't imagine a bigger waste of time than watching people race in GT Sport.

I can't seeing it appeal to anybody

Two very different things.

If eSports continue to grow no developer will want to risk being left behind. There is potential for any competitive gaming genre to benefit.

 

[Krypton78]

I wanted to recover SR 91 to 99 for FIA races. Except for this reason, I dont do weeklys anymore since they are weeklys and the matchmaking is beyond acceptable.

This is what happens usually in a room with to wide DR- mixed drivers. Divebombing in perfection. And, why not "overtaking" directly 2 cars? (no he didn't miscalculate the braking, he went to the right side before starting to brake)

Landed in last place and I even didn't want to chase the last placed cars after this.

And, the best is, guess how many SR I gained in that race?

Yes! exactly zero of course!

(I'm the blue Porsche)

 

[Mr616]

I watch GTS streams, especially the FIA 24 events and the recent event at Nurb.

I also watch Nicki Thiim and Jimmy Broadbent iracing.

Sim racing can produce closer and more exciting racing than some of their real life counterparts sometimes, and to give it more weight, pro racing drivers can be seen sim racing and this can be played by anybody at home, so you can see how you stack up against the very best.

There is a market there to tap into and grow imo.

 

[kjeldsen]

Seems like with enough players the matchmaking has an easier time, except for the D drivers :-/

VS this "match making" early in the morning

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Seems like with enough players the matchmaking has an easier time, except for the D drivers :-/


View attachment 762157


VS this "match making" early in the morningView attachment 762158

Those D drivers save for the last two can actually compete against you guys. The qualifying times are so similar

Just a bit of banter don't take it seriously, but damn your lap time there looks like as if you're a B driver amongst C and D drivers minus the rating

 

[soundtiger95]

Those D drivers save for the last two can actually compete against you guys. The qualifying times are so similar

This is what I don’t understand about the people who complain about the matchmaking. What do you do when D/C/B/etc level drivers are putting in times that are in line with A and S? I also don’t understand how having C and D drivers together is a big deal. There’s essentially zero difference between one ranking level and you can absolutely compete within a ranking level or two.

 

[kjeldsen]

This is what I don’t understand about the people who complain about the matchmaking. What do you do when D/C/B/etc level drivers are putting in times that are in line with A and S? I also don’t understand how having C and D drivers together is a big deal. There’s essentially zero difference between one ranking level and you can absolutely compete within a ranking level or two.

The complaint is simple and valid, matchmaking should provide a field of equal drivers. A low D and a high C player are usually a part by a healthy amount. The D driver should and would have more fun racing other D drivers. And apart from the smurfs and the SR tanking cheaters, the DR rank is a good indication of speed. But yes, you will have examples of D drivers being faster than higher ranked players, but as the rank goes up it becomes less likely to happen.

Nevertheless, the main problem the game has with the current Matchmaking is a lack of players. With a static ranking system that doesn't wait until enough players with an equal rating are ready the speed difference just grows as the player base os reduced.

 

[simsimsheree]

For me, the issue is qualy lap times. I am seeing 10 or more seconds spread at times. That's a massive difference given how carefully BoP'd the cars are (remember, F1 doesn't BoP, just set specs for displacement and such things, and you don't get more than about 3s/lap difference even there).

The thing I'd like to see is a far more spaced out start grid (or rolling start spacing) the higher the difference between first and last's lap times. The ability to get through the first couple of turns before a driver with 4-5s/lap down can get to your rear end would vastly improve racing in Sport Mode. But the same spacing no matter what is the recipe for most of the T1/2 mayhem. Survive the first sector, you have a chance. Someone with 4s/lap down times doesn't stand a chance against you. But give him the chance to dive and push you off, there goes your race.

Me, I don't care how few are on the grid. I'd like to see a maximum spread of 3s/lap, period. But if PD want to up the grid size, at least find a way to defend us from the back pack rammers! Start them far enough back, the front pack is gone at T1!

 

[AlanH49]

Am I reading the the stats site wrong under new players since game release by week?
Around 50k or so average? Last one says 72k new players in a week? Week 24 120k? Whaa? Did I miss a decimal point?
Must be making a mistake in what I am looking at. So around 3 percent of those are predicted to play sport mode at some point?
Some stat person can you explain what I am missing?

GT Sport has maintained an average of 50k-60k new players per week. Whenever you have a big spike it’s down to a sale or promotion. Be it at retail or on PSN.

 

[simsimsheree]

GT Sport has maintained an average of 50k-60k new players per week. Whenever you have a big spike it’s down to a sale or promotion. Be it at retail or on PSN.

Are they tracking new sales or new PSN accounts? Used/sold, used/shared (several kids/adults in the same house all using the one disk under different names) and used/gifted copies would generate new stats, wouldn't they? And extra player names (a lot of people maintain multiple identities for each region) would count as new 'players', too, wouldn't they?

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[Azerach]

I am now 344 races into GT-Sport, of those 344 races the matchmaking has put me on pole 6 times. I know i know, git gud blabla..
But it can be no surprise that new players will find very little satisfaction in this game if someone that has done 344 races only gets matched as the fastest in 1.7% of the races? IMHO PD really needs to do some work on this to get new players to stay around and have fun..

Sorry to say this but looking at your stats you are well below average.

Just like in iRacing the matchmaking will struggle to find equal competition at the top of the competition but also at the bottom. That's just how statistically the player skill is spread out.

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[rono_thomas]

You don't have to be sorry I couldn't really care less about DR or SR ratings as long as i know I race clean and I have fun.
But if what you wrote is true then the game will never be able to really grow. Not that I actually agree with you, as I wrote earlier in this thread there should be an option to queue for a more fair and equal match making instead of the current system where the game has to go with whatever that is available.

And just for the record when I am in the B ranks it doesn't get better.

This isnt rocket science. If you want poles you have to set faster pole times.

My DR is rated A+ if I dont take the time to try and set a top 20, at least, I wont get any poles when matching with fellow A+.

There is only ever one opportunity to have pole.

There are many out of position low dr rated drivers high on the leaderboard so if you have a slow one lap pace poles will be few and far between.

 

[simsimsheree]

You don't have to be sorry I couldn't really care less about DR or SR ratings as long as i know I race clean and I have fun.
But if what you wrote is true then the game will never be able to really grow. Not that I actually agree with you, as I wrote earlier in this thread there should be an option to queue for a more fair and equal match making instead of the current system where the game has to go with whatever that is available.

And just for the record when I am in the B ranks it doesn't get better.

Esports that simulate a real sport will always fail until computing horsepower reaches true AI levels. Racing is a sport of judgement... And even real motorsports has a team of stewards (not just one), because even humans have prejudices and failures of perception, biases and tendencies.

If you are basing whether this game fails or succeeds on Sport Mode, write it off now. But that doesn't mean that clean and fun races aren't in the game. They are in the open Lobbies. It doesn't take long to put together a collection of friends with similar skill level and the same adherence to racing etiquette. Unlike Sport Mode, where no matter how you try there will be always a few who want to win at any cost, a few that want to drive clean and have fun, and a few that simply don't care about anything!

The lobby system is where you should be. You can even host the rooms yourself, title it 'Clean and Fun or kick' or whatever, stick to tracks and power levels you can control, you can have all the fun you want. But 'fun' and 'clean' in Sport Mode when you face drivers desperate for wins and lacking the skill to do it?

Best of luck!

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[rono_thomas]

That is not how it works, at all. The way the game currently sets up the races is a mashup of DR/SR combined with Q laps spread over lap times that sometimes are many seconds apart. It does not try to create races where players are more evenly matched.
Or in other words, the game has every chance and opportunity to create games where a low DR driver with a seemingly slow lap could be matched with players slower than him and thereby creating a exciting race where players get a chance to race for a podium.. imagine that!

Your now describing a matchmaking issue linked to poor player participation which comes with its own set of reasons none of which are related to a non working pole setting system (which BTW has only one way of being “worked”)

There are however ways that may negate these issues play during peak times, or play the FIA events which you will most certainly experience matched races.

What you are asking for I doubt are possible.

 

[simsimsheree]

Ehhh? Write it off now? Maybe you didn't read my first post, i have completed 344 online races, i love the game, this is not about me, why would i still be playing this game on an almost daily basis if i didn't have fun? Unlike so many others i do really not care about my DR rating, if you check my profile you can see a mountain range of ups and downs, i just play the game and have fun.

This is about the game in a bigger perspective and more likely the future GT games. One of my friends bought the game, had fun, loved to play it, entered online races and within a few days realised that the matchmaking would not really let him race others at his lvl and that it would be extremely rare to be racing for podiums. He stopped playing and he is not a special case, he is the prototype lost GT player..

Did you point your friend to the lobbies? Have you spent much time in them yourself? Have you entered SNAIL rooms (they usually allow all-comers for practice sessions) or rooms labeled 'Clean or Kick'? Oh, that's right. You don't care about your SR/DR... You do realize that SR/DR is a function of being able to find clean rooms? Or is the mountainous profile of your own rating more an indication that at times, you don't really care that much for clean racing?

Let me warn you, your idea of queuing for a closer rating match further divides the player base that is already obviously too small to ensure it in the first place. Once waiting for a race takes an hour or so, trust me, you'll be gone. Maybe there's a case to be made for being able to do Arcade or other offline modes and have the game automatically yank you into a tightly matched Sport Mode race when the grid fills, but are you honestly willing to wait, let's be conservative and say 10X longer, for a race doing nothing but hotlap an empty track?

Don't get me wrong, nobody would be happier than me that PD's Sport Mode actually worked, but the combination of poor penalty detection and a dwindling player base don't really offer much hope for the future! All my remarks were intended to point out that, without having to wait hours for a close grid, clean fun racing can ALREADY be had. Just not in Sport Mode...

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[rono_thomas]

giving drivers a pole position once in a while

If your referring to mixed DR lobbies - the very fact that they are mixed is that there are not enough “Matchable” DR/SR racers online at that moment - unless you are now looking for reduced grid sizes to keep the classes of DR seperate, thing is unless your consistently top of your DR class you are still not going to be given pole in either of these scenarios.

 

[Hoopzah]

Deleted

 

[Hoopzah]

The people crying about how unfair the matchmaking is seem to wilfully ignore the fact that only a small % of the GT Sport player base has even played a single Sport mode race...

This has way more (read: everything) to do with requiring a PS+ subscription, and little do with GT Sport's gameplay itself...

Think about it.

 

[soundtiger95]

This has way more (read: everything) to do with requiring a PS+ subscription, and little do with GT Sport's gameplay itself...

Think about it.

That’s not true at all. How do you explain other games having no issue with online play? This also ignores the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who have the game also already have a PS+ subscription. Very few people buy a PS4 just for GTS.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

If your referring to mixed DR lobbies - the very fact that they are mixed is that there are not enough “Matchable” DR/SR racers online at that moment - unless you are now looking for reduced grid sizes to keep the classes of DR seperate, thing is unless your consistently top of your DR class you are still not going to be given pole in either of these scenarios.

Imho poor matchmaking and giving drivers a pole position once in a while goes hand in hand.



I rarely do lobbies and i would not advice any new players to do so, and i am not sure where you are going with your SR rant and suggestions?
As i said numerous times, this is not about me, i care about racing with the guy in front of me and behind me, those 2 are those that matters.

I think you are right that it is to late now, but i would hope that PD would take a look at the future GT games and do something to keep the less experienced players happy and give them an opportunity to race against someone on their level. That being said i doubt that it would take hours of wait to get races going, unless the game i actually in serious trouble.

Actually there have been quite a few "discussions" (err arguments) about this all the way back when the game was new and hot off the presses.

The reasoning or rather excuses offered has been from there are not enough racers with the "S" SR rankings of the lower DR rankings to match, there are not enough higher ranked players to fill a grid within their own DR ranks, Time of day being played, to turn a faster lap time.

Actually regardless of the why the reality is in sport mode daily races a high ranked SR and mid ranked DR player will usually find himself being used as a grid filler for higher DR ranked(hence faster) players ( At least on the N.A, servers region) and even improving of the qualifying times will only result in you being the grid filler for an even faster lobby.( I tested this by running races at one intentional sandbagged Q time then improving the Q time by a full 2 seconds and still placed within lobbies with a 11-17 th starting position over multiple races).

Then it went with the highest ranked players saying you needed to get gud or the lower ranked players just wanted easy wins handed out but the highest ranked players did not agree that they by racing slower ranked players were actually the ones that were receiving the easy wins as a result of slower grid fillers.

It was pointed out multiple times that the mid ranked players wanted nothing but what the game advertised was a matchmaking system where a player was in races racing against equal level and skilled players.

So the end result it has been this way since the start, you will not find a consensus as to it even being a problem much less of finding a fix. Although the game for months was shedding sportmode players by the thousands worldwide this was not considered by many to be a valid reasoning of perhaps why the losses, most players should be fine with having a best possible realistic finishing of 14th due to being a back marker grid filler entrant in many cases.

I will not go further in this as it is a waste of time but for those that bring these issues to light in current times believe me it has all been a hot topic since even the early release days of the game and it appears there is no answer, either accept it for what it is or find a different game to play.