Sportsmanship...

  • Thread starter Ashthebash
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I'm noticing lots of new drivers today with E DR, lm just trying to stay in front of them and let the system take care of them like it did me. I'm starting to see some consistency in the races I'm in, not so much blatant bashing , at least in the lead pack, but the folks in back are getting lowered SR quick. Time will take care of this I'm seeing. Hoping we get more than 3 tracks per week next time. In a few weeks we'll have lots of track time experience on a variety of courses.

I've never played any of the other GT games so this stuff is all new. I used to play some need for speed long ago, recently Driveclub and PC. I kept Driveclub and gave PC away. I'm liking GTS more as I play and get used to not having to try to pass everyone in the first lap, but it's almost counter intuitive to focus on clean driving instead of win at all cost. Right now I'm B and B and holding there for now, seems to be my niche for now. Have fun
 
Famine
Watch the second video, as it's literally the last thing on it:


I'm not. I'm stating what it is.

I don't care whether it's great or terrible. This is the system. It seems to be what's intended. This is what we have to live with if we want to play Sport Mode, or we can move on.
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I’m pretty sure it will get fine tuned. We all watched the video but pretty sure you shouldn’t get a penalty from a comicazy driver that has no clue as he drives in without braking...
 
The point is that both drivers don't deserve to be penalized, only the one who rear ended the car in front to use as brakes. Yes, the driver in back has figured out how the system works because it has a flaw that rewards bad sportsmanship. That may be how the game works, but I agree with drivers who strongly feel that it is not a positive feature of the game. Who enjoys being used as a brake by the driver behind? Just as importantly, what kind of driver enjoys exploiting this flaw by crashing other drivers in order to pass?
 
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Famine
Nope, I'm saying that this is the system in place and it seems to be exactly what's intended - it's not broken, or in need of fixing, as it's working precisely as it's intended to work.
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I’m still struggling to understand how you’re justifying that it’s working as intended. Unless you think being divebombed or rammed into from behind is the fault of the driver that was the victim of those two things and you think they were driving poorly by following a racing line, I really don’t see a justification for a system that penalizes those people when the logical intention of the system is to reward clean driving and penalize poor driving. I watch multiple racing series from Formula 1 to IMSA to the WEC, even a bit of NASCAR and Indycar, and have never once seen a driver be penalized in a situation where they were the ones who were hit due to a dangerous driver.


By the way, I do like the idea of the system and I haven’t seen this be a huge game breaking issue yet. I hated racing online because of poor and crazy drivers which is why I joined online racing leagues in the past and plan on doing so for GTS. I’ve experienced situations where I was hit and it hurt my rating during the race, but my rating hasn’t turned red once. However, a system that penalizes innocent drivers is still a broken one IMO. I know it won’t be perfect since it’s a game and works on algorithms, but that’s a simple aspect of a penalty that just needs to work properly.
 
soundtiger95
I’m still struggling to understand how you’re justifying that it’s working as intended. Unless you think being divebombed or rammed into from behind is the fault of the driver that was the victim of those two things and you think they were driving poorly by following a racing line, I really don’t see a justification for a system that penalizes those people when the logical intention of the system is to reward clean driving and penalize poor driving. I watch multiple racing series from Formula 1 to IMSA to the WEC, even a bit of NASCAR and Indycar, and have never once seen a driver be penalized in a situation where they were the ones who were hit due to a dangerous driver.


By the way, I do like the idea of the system and I haven’t seen this be a huge game breaking issue yet. I hated racing online because of poor and crazy drivers which is why I joined online racing leagues in the past and plan on doing so for GTS. I’ve experienced situations where I was hit and it hurt my rating during the race, but my rating hasn’t turned red once. However, a system that penalizes innocent drivers is still a broken one IMO. I know it won’t be perfect since it’s a game and works on algorithms, but that’s a simple aspect of a penalty that just needs to work properly.
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It is working as intended by the developer. Both parties are penalized in a collision because it's a no fault system. That's what the developer intends and that's what happens. You may not like it, it certainly isn't fair, it can certainly be improved, but it's working as the developer intends it to work.
 
And its all so easy for the faster drivers to get up front and out of their way of the rammers, There are many other clean drivers out there suffering these idiots because they are not as fast so there only option is to stay at the back and there is not much they can do about it. If only the game can see this and put those slower clean drivers with other slower clean ones.
 
Stuck with SR C for like 15 races because I'm .6s of the pole. Every time I get a perfect race and I need one more to get back to B I stumble on people driving the Alfa Gr4 (it's the fastest on Suzuka East) and loosing it just in every corner...
 
Coiler
(...)Every time I get a perfect race and I need one more to get back to B(...)
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What do you mean by "one more"? Do you need clean races, as in no orange SR, to improve your SR? That might explain why I'm stuck at C. I usually have one or two orange SRs because of idiots driving the wrong direction or using others as breaks.
That said, I really like the concept of Sport Mode, and I think it's a shame there is no SR in lobby-racing. It's the only reason I've refrained from racing there - without changes to your SR what's the point of racing in lobbies?
 
Hi, new in the forums.

Couple of thoughts about the problems discussed here. I have raced quite a few races now with different rated drivers and my ranking has changed few times too.

Frankly, I havent encountered that much over the top brakers or pushers in general. Biggest problem is the tracks selected here, one oval, suzuka has basically one racing line and the track is very narrow. Brands is too crowded also. Theres literally no place to be if you go slightly wide at suzuka. If theres 3-4 cars within couple of tenths chasing you I dont think no one is really to blame here if theres bumber car effect coming, cant except everybody braking at a same time during unexcepted situations. Cars behave differently and have different strongpoints. So I wouldnt be too harsh on players in general.

Also, it creates a lot more problems if because of this SR system everybody start to slow down too much. Small tracks are so crowded that theres a tight group forming right away and more hits coming.

What Im trying to say is I see most people are trying to be clean really. Mistakes happen and most of us arent professional. After all its meant to be a game where we try to be faster all the time.. When people learn the limits I believe it comes much cleaner.
 
Entered 5 races on the trot now and all 5 have black screened me at the matchmaking start rocketing my specs even further downwards.

PD sort this crap out please. And no it’s not my internet ive fibre optic 200 meg gaming package and it’s rock solid. Not had these issues till today.
 
Just finished the new Kyoto N300 race and there was one guy who literally used other cars to brake into every corner. Eventually he got up to second place which is when he started to slow down because first place was long gone so he couldn't ram his way into first. The two cars behind him were obviously faster but couldn't pass him because he always slammed into them in the braking zones.

Eventually he finished second but was relegated to fifth because of a (ridiculously low) 4 second penalty. But what really stunned me was that his sportsmanship rating was a blue B. He never could have gotten any green SR sectors, except maybe the first lap when he was behind me and I didn't see what he was doing. But if the game thinks he's driving like a gent I tend to disagree. :)

Apart from the weird SR, playing online is pretty fun though. Haven't seen anyone yet who is just out there trying to ruin everyone's race. Just some people who drive a bit dirty and get rewarded for it. :) I think what's missing here are harder penalties for people who repeatedly bump into other cars. Like a drive through penalty or something. That should get them out of the way of the other (clean) drivers.
 
I think one of the reasons there is a lot of ramming is that the breaking lint when track is clear is at one area but when there are several cars directly in front of them the breaking area has to be slytly earlier and often these drivers are not aware so use their normal breaking area and it’s proving to be too late if there are several others directly in front.
 
JulesDennis
Thats a good example that the system is not working as it should.
Why people should get a penalty when others are using them as brakes?
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A no-fault penalty system is a good solution. In fact, GTS has lifted its Driver Safety rating system directly from iRacing, where it works great.

Racing is a non-contact sport, but in GT racing especially there is always contact.

A good strategy for you would be to stop obsessing over individual incidents in individual races. If you drive cleanly over the course of weeks, thinking in aggregate, your Driver Safety rating will increase. It's as simple as that. Try not to get annoyed by the little incremental increases and decreases in your rating day-to-day.

A no-fault penalty system also teaches you to be a better driver. You learn not to put your car in dangerous situations and you keep an eye out for erratic behaviour from other drivers. There will always be people that brake late, but once you work your way up to level A and S, people are much better.
 
Johnnypenso
It is working as intended by the developer. Both parties are penalized in a collision because it's a no fault system. That's what the developer intends and that's what happens. You may not like it, it certainly isn't fair, it can certainly be improved, but it's working as the developer intends it to work.
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And again, a no fault system makes no sense to me, and I still don’t get why people keep going back to the “this is what PD intended” thing. It’s obvious this is the system they put in place. No one is arguing that. But people can still have an issue with it no matter what their intention was.
 
Jonnyboi
Wow, everyone is so quick to judge, It's not even been a week yet...

For me the system works well, these are the cards we're dealt with, so use them cards, don't moan how things could somehow be better. Unless we have real people over looking the race it won't be completely fair. The system gets you thinking more about your environment, yes there are people who still punt others off but over time they will slowly be filtered through and you'll be racing with like minded people, it's not going to take a few races and days to sort everyone into different categories

I've resorted to going to the back of the field and have clean laps to improve mine quicker, and tbh I'm still enjoying it, had an amazing race with someone doing the exact same and e were racing to not be last! 5 laps of Suzuka and it was a blast, It made me question should I overtake now and be impatient or wait a few turns, learn were I'm faster and then set myself up. Also it make you think of whos behind you, if you think their a threat, try and position yourself out of the way so you don't get hit, The game even bloody mentions this....

At least GT has a system which overtime will balance out. Forza has nothing, so everyrace is screwed, least theres hope and knowing it will get better along the way with GT.
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This. It is a system that will weed people out over time, there is no way it can sort categories of players in less than a week of release.
 
azrilnazli
There was zillion threads in iRacing where newbies crying out about SR. After all this years the system hasn't changed and work as intended.
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I can assure you I’m no nooby I’ve been playing since GT4 and pride myself on being an honest clean racer to the point if I ever accidentally caused an issue in previous lobbies I would wait and give up my place back to them, very rarely happens though in fact it was way back in GT6 early days last time I think
 
955i
This. It is a system that will weed people out over time, there is no way it can sort categories of players in less than a week of release.
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Those who are familiar with iRacing will know there are 3 parameters that define a player SAFETY RATING / iRATING / LEAGUE POINTS.

So in GTS it will be SPORTMANSHIP / DRIVER RATING / LEAGUE POINTS

How the system sort the players ?

Say 200 player signed up for suzuka race at 14:00 GMT. Only 20 racer per instance, and the system I assume will use DRIVER RATING as sorting mechanism. SO there will be SPLITS , 200/20, will be equal to 10 splits. The TOP splits is for higher DRIVER RATING against each other. People who fhinished 1-10th place will be awarded DRIVER RATING anf for 11th to 20th will be deducted DRIVER RATING and will be moved into lower SPLIT on net race.

SPORTMANSHIP is just for eligible license, say GT3 will need B license ( so you have to maintain you B entitlement in your career )

Correct me if I'm wrong.

GTP_Monkey
I can assure you I’m no nooby I’ve been playing since GT4 and pride myself on being an honest clean racer to the point if I ever accidentally caused an issue in previous lobbies I would wait and give up my place back to them, very rarely happens though in fact it was way back in GT6 early days last time I think
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Some body hit you car ( not you fault ), but you need to pay the repairs right ? SO both party need to pay the repairs bill. That repair bills is translated into incident points ( 4 points for heavy car contact )

IMHO, GTS is going into right direction, but give them time :D
 
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soundtiger95
And again, a no fault system makes no sense to me.
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iRacing, which is the only sim title that has provided a very effective "race when you want" scheduled, structured online racing race series system, uses a no-fault system. I'm an iRacing veteran. It works great. And you know what? Even at higher levels of safety rating, there are still dumb collisions. This is motorsport.

You have to remember how subjective collisions are in real and online racing. It is not feasible (scalable) to have any kind of race stewardship going on in massively multiplayer online matchmaking.

Now, you can come back at me and say, "But Mike, getting rammed with late braking is easy to detect." That may be true and I think you have a point there.

Remember: The fact is that drivers who consistently drive with bad manners will drop down a no-fault system, and drivers who consistantly drive with good manners will rise towards the top. If you drive cleanly in aggregate, over the course of weeks, and you learn not to put your car in dangerous situations, your SR will rise. If I want an SR gain from Suzuka, I don't try to pass in the first sector unless the lead car messes up and goes into the runoff area outside T1.
 
What I want to hear is 'this is a system that will play out over time, give it a chance'

What I hear is WAH, WAH, WAH, MUMMY IT HASN@T MADE ME THE BEST FIRST TIME

As I see it, if you are good you will rank up, if you don't race fair you will rank down but it will take time.

If you don't have that time play something else!!
 
People need to realise if something is subjective (and this is) then a computer will be gash at it. Just accept it and do your best. It will remedy itself over time if you are the clean driver you claim to be, (not aimed at anyone, just in general).

Ive actually avoided Sport mode for now, assuming it was going to have teething problems. Practicing in Lobbies, running at the sharp end now (first, lol, humble as ever), will make the transition into Sport mode in the coming days :)
 
phl0w
What do you mean by "one more"? Do you need clean races, as in no orange SR, to improve your SR? That might explain why I'm stuck at C. I usually have one or two orange SRs because of idiots driving the wrong direction or using others as breaks.
That said, I really like the concept of Sport Mode, and I think it's a shame there is no SR in lobby-racing. It's the only reason I've refrained from racing there - without changes to your SR what's the point of racing in lobbies?
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No you don't need a clean race to improve your rank just from my experience two orange arrows in a race and your rank is greyed out aka you don't earn anything. It is based on points- they were visible on the beginning of the closed beta.
 
955i
What I want to hear is 'this is a system that will play out over time, give it a chance'

What I hear is WAH, WAH, WAH, MUMMY IT HASN@T MADE ME THE BEST FIRST TIME

As I see it, if you are good you will rank up, if you don't race fair you will rank down but it will take time.

If you don't have that time play something else!!
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The problem as I see it is those guys that fall somewhere in the middle, They want a clean race but are not fast enough to get a place at or near the front so there stuck in the middle which is the area where all those wana be tryhards at the back just plough into causing havoc. I have seen this happen several times when taking advice of the fast guys in here and trying to stay at the back to keep it clean and progress.

There is also the a problem i've witnessed when being in a good reasonably clean race one of the midfielders loses control, Loses a couple of places near end of race rather than accepting the fact they go balls out to get there place back again causing havoc.

It is easy for fast guys to criticise whats happening behind them, they dont these issue as there away and gone.
 
GTP_Monkey
The problem as I see it is those guys that fall somewhere in the middle, They want a clean race but are not fast enough to get a place at or near the front so there stuck in the middle which is the area where all those wana be tryhards at the back just plough into causing havoc. I have seen this happen several times when taking advice of the fast guys in here and trying to stay at the back to keep it clean and progress.

There is also the a problem i've witnessed when being in a good reasonably clean race one of the midfielders loses control, Loses a couple of places near end of race rather than accepting the fact they go balls out to get there place back again causing havoc.

It is easy for fast guys to criticise whats happening behind them, they dont these issue as there away and gone.
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As I said, it will take a while for this to filter players.

It will also require some tweaking to behave how it is meant to.

To just start ranting within days of release is the behaviour of spoilt children who aren't getting instant gratification.

You want instant wins and rewards, go play Mario Kart!

Consistent bad racers will drop down, consistent clean racers will go up.

Give it a chance or don't play, your choice, but I suspect (hope) that this feature will be an essential part of the game following future updates.
 
MikeTheHockeyFan
A no-fault penalty system also teaches you to be a better driver. You learn not to put your car in dangerous situations and you keep an eye out for erratic behaviour from other drivers. There will always be people that brake late, but once you work your way up to level A and S, people are much better.
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I don't think this is true. What a no-fault system teaches you is how to drive without really racing like you want to, long enough so you can finally be paired up with the less rambunctious racers.

soundtiger95
And again, a no fault system makes no sense to me, and I still don’t get why people keep going back to the “this is what PD intended” thing. It’s obvious this is the system they put in place. No one is arguing that. But people can still have an issue with it no matter what their intention was.
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That's literally what I said in the response you quoted. Glad you agree.

955i
As I said, it will take a while for this to filter players.

It will also require some tweaking to behave how it is meant to.

To just start ranting within days of release is the behaviour of spoilt children who aren't getting instant gratification.

You want instant wins and rewards, go play Mario Kart!

Consistent bad racers will drop down, consistent clean racers will go up.

Give it a chance or don't play, your choice, but I suspect (hope) that this feature will be an essential part of the game following future updates.
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This is a discussion board for all sides of various issues. There's no need to pepper your responses with personal attacks on those you disagree with. Just stick to discussing the issues and leave out the ad homenim stuff.
 
It's hard to get a picture of every driving style when the races are so short. But I try to play it safe as much as I can. I never stay too close to the back of someone if I don't know their driving behaviour. I also avoid overtaking in corners as much as I can, as many people will go for the inside aggressively even though you are right beside them.
 

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