Stock car race comparison/challenge

[LeadSlead#2]

Again, with the questions, I know I'm a pain, I just can't help it.

1. When starting a long race, such as any enduro, or the F1 races, one can use R1's, to boost points, then, on first pit stop, change tires, to softer, is this allowed?
2. are chassis refresh's allowed on used cars?

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

1. When starting a long race, such as any enduro, or the F1 races, one can use R1's, to boost points, then, on first pit stop, change tires, to softer, is this allowed?

Yes & No.

Yes, you can do this with racing tires, and with both standard & sport tires as well, but despite what the game suggests in the pit options, this is only true between compounds and not types.

If you start a race with either standard or sport tires, even if you own race tires, and they are allowed in that event, the game will not let you switch to them. They do not even give the option to do that.

More importantly though there is a significant glitch in GT4 where by if you do start a race with standard or sport tires and then pit and change to a different type (from standard to sport or vice versa), no actual change occurs. So despite what the pit options might say, whatever type of tire you start a race with is the ONLY tire type you can use for that race. You can however, change to different compounds using the same type of tire you started with.



(edited for clarity and to distinguish the difference between starting a race with racing tires vs other types)

 

[Smallhorses]

Thanks for the insight Digital-Nitrate, while what you have said is absolutely true and correct, LeadSlead#2's question relates to the specific rules of the submissions for the list here in post #1.

In this case, since it's hispeed's thread, I can't really pass comment for certain on the tyre question relative to the rules of this thread.
In my opinion, although it's possible to fiddle higher points in this way, I believe it goes against the grain of what has been going on here, and is, as such not valid. But that's my thoughts, hispeed's opinion is what rules here and we should wait for that. I know from previous external contacts with him that he's extremely busy at the moment and it may be some time before he is able to respond here. Please be patient.

I can say for certain that the chassis refresh does deviate from the true "stock" interpretation of the rules, in that it changes the car from the way it was purchased or won. We've had a similar discussion with another submitter here in the past and some of their entries were removed due to a chassis refresh being performed. So it's a definite no no!

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Thanks for the insight Digital-Nitrate, while what you have said is absolutely true and correct, LeadSlead#2's question relates to the specific rules of the submissions for the list here in post #1.

Oops... my bad, I misunderstood and thought the question was referring to the game itself.

BTW: Kudos on all those involved with this challenge. I too thoroughly enjoy the challenge of competitive racing using unmodified cars. 👍

 

[LeadSlead#2]

BMW:
M Club - Race 1 - El Capitan
Car: BMW M Coupe '98 (Used, no oil) / FR / 286HP / 1465KG / S1 / 200 A-Spec By LeadSlead#2

M Club - Race 2 - Apricot Hill
Car: BMW M3 '04 / FR / 339HP / 1570KG / S1 / 141 A-Spec By LeadSlead#2

M Club - Race 3 - Opera Paris
Car: BMW M Coupe '98 (Used, no oil) / FR / 286HP / 1465KG / S1 / 200 A-Spec By LeadSlead#2

M Club - Race 4 - Suzuka Circuit
Car: BMW M3 '04 / FR / 339HP / 1570KG / S1 / 141 A-Spec By LeadSlead#2

M Club - Race 5 - Nurburgring Nordschleife
Car: BMW M3 '04 / FR / 339HP / 1570KG / S1 / 141 A-Spec By LeadSlead#2


Had quite a few long races thwarted by the inability to give refresh... like a black GT1 with no oil and R1's besting the F1 cars
Though I do hope changing tires mid-race is not allowed, it just seems really against the spirit of the rules, contrary to the chassis refresh rule

So now I must ask, is it legal to give a car you bought new, a refresh once it wears out, or must you go buy a new one? And likewise, with cars you bought with 6.2mi on them?

 

[GM]

Chamonix Hard - Normal And Reverse

Car: Subaru Impreza STI Spec C / 4WD / 325HP / 1370 Kg / Snow Tires / 129 A Spec Points / George Morley

 

[Gumball-AMG]

200 points with tht zonda c12 in Lik the wind

 

[Smallhorses]

I'm fairly certain with regards to LeadSlead#2's question and Toronado's question via PM, that the chassis refresh is forbidden regardless of circumstances.
hispeed's original definition of a stock car is "as it comes, purchased or won, with no modifications."
Since the chassis refresh is a purchasable modification from the tuning companies or the dealer, (like a turbo, exhaust or weight reduction which are also not allowed) so it too is forbidden.
If you have worn out the chassis, then you need to buy a new stock car or we'd end up in endless debate about who'd raced with worn cars but chassis refreshed, and if we had to keep adding extra mods as well as tyre changes to the post #1 list it all starts to become untidy.
So once again. Oil change is permitted. Tyre change within the rules stipulated in post #1 is permitted. Any other modification including wings, weight reduction, engine, suspension or chassis modifications are not allowed.

@Gumball-AMG please read post #1 for the correct way to post your entry, and edit your post above. We need information such as weight and power for the car to determine that the car is truly stock and that the race you're suggesting is possible. Thanks.

 

[Dave^]

is there a list anywhere as to which cars appear in each race?

i've tried searching, but drew a blank

 

[cerpin_taxt]

i think it depends on which car you get, but the opponents should be n the same class. this happened when i took out all the le mans race cars with my vette. every time i do it with the vette, i have the same opponents in the same order, but when i change cars, so does the lineup.

 

[Dave^]

ok cheers....

i just started the Poly Digital Cup series in my '89 Toyota Race Car..... and the quickest i was up against was a semi tuned 350Z :?

 

[87chevy]

I won my first 200pt race last night. However it was NOT in a bone stock vehicle. I put semi-racing exhaust and a chip in my Dodge Truck and the Sport Truck races were still worth 200pts. I dont know how you guys beat that SST concept truck with a stock dodge, I just couldn't do it. but then again I suck at racing games lol.

 

[Smallhorses]

Dave^ please have a look at the stickied thread called "LOOK HERE BEFORE YOU ASK - Many FAQs"
In there you'll find this thread regarding PD Cup lineups.
A search in Gran Turismo 4 thread titles for Polyphony should have brought a few things up.

A race car is overkill for this series, I suggest you look here for an example of how to make this series exciting!

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

i think it depends on which car you get, but the opponents should be n the same class. this happened when i took out all the le mans race cars with my vette. every time i do it with the vette, i have the same opponents in the same order, but when i change cars, so does the lineup.

This is not correct.

Like all races, if you run the same race after the last race without going back to the race selection menu, then you will always get the exact same lineup in the exact same start positions.

If you want a different line-up and or positions, then exit the start race menu, then select the same race.

Moreover, as far as I know, the car you use will have no effect on what cars are selected by the AI in any race, other than the Family Cup races of course.

 

[Dave^]

Dave^ please have a look at the stickied thread called "LOOK HERE BEFORE YOU ASK - Many FAQs"
In there you'll find this thread regarding PD Cup lineups.
A search in Gran Turismo 4 thread titles for Polyphony should have brought a few things up.

A race car is overkill for this series, I suggest you look here for an example of how to make this series exciting!

i was just using the PD Cup as an example.....it would be nice to know roughly what you were up against in each race without having to enter the race, work out the competition, then quit, pick a suitable car, re-enter the race etc.....

i don't suppose you've done the same for all the other races as the PD Cup have you? would be nice, lol

 

[Smallhorses]

i don't suppose you've done the same for all the other races as the PD Cup have you? would be nice, lol

Sadly not, it would take far too long. I do have access to a list of all the possible entrants for each race along with tyre types and HP values which you may find useful. Check your PM box for details.

Hopefully we will see some high A-spec stock car submissions for the post #1 list from you soon!

 

[Dave^]

replied to your PM.....

i hope so too, i pretty much blaged my way up to 76%, and to be honest i'm a little bored now, i have no chance of getting 100% as 'bob' just aint up to it, and i haven't built myself up skill wise during the first three quarters of the game..... having b-spec'd about 40% so far. :shy:

but i WILL be clearing ALL the trophies and aiming for 200 a-spec points in the near future, one area at a time [probably start with beginner, then the individual make/model races] as soon as i have gained at least silver in all the licences, which cmay be a while, lol.....

all that once i've managed to drag myself away from the 'ring in stock production cars......

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

i was just using the PD Cup as an example.....it would be nice to know roughly what you were up against in each race without having to enter the race, work out the competition, then quit, pick a suitable car, re-enter the race etc.....

That's exactly what inspired me to do precisely that:

• Ranking & Data on All the AI Cars for Endurance Event: Circuit de la Sarthe 24hr I
  
  
• Ranking & Data on All the AI Cars for Endurance Event: Circuit de la Sarthe 24hr II
  
  
• Ranking & Info on All 51 Cars that Qualify for the European 1000 Miles!
  
  
• Ranking & Data on All the AI Cars for European Event: 1000 Miles!
  
  
• Ranking & Data on All the AI Cars for Endurance Event: El Capitan 200 Miles
  
  
• Ranking & Data on All the AI Cars for Endurance Event: Laguna Seca 200 Miles
  
  
• Ranking & Data on All the AI Cars for Endurance Event: New York 200 Miles

Like many others, I much prefer a close challenge using cars and set-ups that results in lap and race times near the same level as the better AI cars in each event.

I use to use the practice/qualifying sessions in GT3 to select a closely competitive car/set-up in order to make it more challenging. However, now that PD did away with that option in GT4 with the exception of just the few championship events, I had to keep restarting each race with different cars and/or set-ups until I found a good competitive match.

This is what finally inspired me to do exhaustive thorough testing on all the AI cars and on each event, as the AI does in fact change the settings of many of their cars (tuning, mods, and tyre compound) depending on what event they are being used on.

I am currently working on finishing several more of these AI Ranking/Info lists, but if there is a specific event you are interested in, feel free to post your request in the following thread:

• Digital-Nitrate Lists/Info Links

It also includes some additional info on the game that does not necessarily relate to the performance of the AI opponents, but may help in selecting a good stock car to use in those specific events.

 

[Dave^]

Cheers D-N 👍

 

[Smallhorses]

Alrighty then! About time we had an on-topic post with a race submission!

Endurance Events : Nurburgring 24hr Endurance
Car: Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car '85 (R1 tyres) / MR / 350HP / 905kg / 2.6kg/HP / 138 A-spec points.

 

[Tornado]

How did you manage to keep the rear end in line for 24 hours?

 

[Smallhorses]

How did you manage to keep the rear end in line for 24 hours?

It was hard work, and not without the odd spin here & there! Entering Arembergkurve and the fast section after Sprunghugel in particular were very !

 

[Smallhorses]

Double post, sorry. Hit quote instead of edit on my previous post!

Some Aston Martin action, a very unrewarding 6,000Cr total prizefund for the Aston Martin Carnival after spending ~600,000Cr on 3 different cars!

Aston Martin Carnival : Fuji Speedway 90's
Car: Aston Martin Vanquish '04 / FR / 460HP / 1835kg / 4.0kg/HP / 96 A-spec points.

Aston Martin Carnival : Hong Kong
Car: Aston Martin V8 Vantage (Used, no oil) / FR / 505HP / 1970kg / 3.9kg/HP / 99 A-spec points.

Aston Martin Carnival : Autumn Ring
Aston Martin DB7 Vantage Coupe '00 / FR / 420HP / 1775kg / 4.2kg/HP /118 A-spec points.

And so with the prizecar, another of the Premium Sport Lounge races went down! 👍

Extreme hall: Premium Sports Lounge race 4 - High Speed Ring
Car: Aston Martin DB9 Coupe '03 / FR / 449HP / 1710kg / 3.8kg/HP / 165 A-spec points.

vs. 2nd lineup after reset, has Merc SLR, Zonda, Cizeta and Ford GT in, and a non-contender in the Merc CL600!

*edit* Some for the Corvette races too.

Manufacturers Events : Chevrolet : Vette! Vette! Vette! : El Capitan
Car: Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C2) '63 / FR / 249HP / 1370kg / 5.5kg/HP /135 A-spec points. 👍

Manufacturers Events : Chevrolet : Vette! Vette! Vette! : New York
Car: Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport '96 (Used, no oil) / FR / 299HP / 1496kg / 5.0kg/HP / 96 A-spec points.

Manufacturers Events : Chevrolet : Vette! Vette! Vette! : Infineon
Car: Chevrolet Corvette Stingray L46 350 (C3) '69 / FR / 351HP / 1490kg / 4.2kg/HP / 76 A-spec points

 

[AMG.]

Too bad O.G. isn't around anymore.
He certainly deserves a place in the 1st post. He even considers running tyres on the rumbles is 'not done'.

See stickie https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73460

AMG.

 

[Smallhorses]

Woohoo!
Another 200 pointer, and one that doesn't have a 200 point entry yet!

European Hall: La Festa Italiano race 3 - Infineon
Car: Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 24V '98 (Used, oil changed) / FF / 190HP / 1320kg / 6.9kg/HP / 200 A-spec points! 👍

vs. 4th lineup after reset, which has Alfa 166 on pole and is all FF cars.

 

[FLK]

Endurance races: Infineon World Sports endurance

Car: Mazda 787B '91 (Used, no oil, R1 tyres & ballast [150kg]) / MR / 715HP / 970kg / 200 A-spec points

 

[Smallhorses]

Sorry FLK, this is the stock car thread, no ballast is allowed in these submissions. Great race and report though. 👍

 

[Smallhorses]

La Festa Italiano - Thought I was going to struggle when this fiat tried to get up the hill at the start of Monaco but it did me proud! It beat 4 much bigger Alfas and a Lancia Delta (alright, the Lancia started fifth and stayed there)

Monaco, Autumn Ring
Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due/136hp/1090kg/7.99kg/hp - 200pts

I'm going to have to ask for verification on this one.
Anyone else care to take a stock Fiat Barchetta, give it an oil change and try to win either of these races? I've just tried both. It's simply not possible to beat in this car, I've tried numerous lineups at both places, especially trying to start with the slowest AI, Alfa 166 on pole, and in 2 laps it isn't possible to catch last place! They will leave you for dead down the straights!
Something is very wrong with this submission, I'm no slouch round either of these tracks, perhaps the AI run different cars in this race in the PAL version, but in NTSC all the AI entrants run between 255 and 305HP. A 136HP FF on SM tyres will not win here. Can another PAL runner use the race preview to check the HP ratings for the AI here? I have a suspicion that NOS may have been used to keep up.

 

[GM]

I'll check, if I can remember I found it hard in the better Lancia Delta, but that was awhile back, be back soon with some results.

 

[GM]

Autumn Ring - Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due - 200 A Spec Points - No Nitrous Run.

Line Up :

Fiat Coupe Turbo Plus
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA
Lancia Delta HF Intergrallie
Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 V6 24V
Alfa Romeo GTV 3.0 V6 24V
Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due


By T1 I was far behind the 5th placed Alfa Romeo, and by the time I'd come onto the straight after the hairpin (not Start/Finish straight) all I could see was the 5th placed Alfa going around the corner ahead, not even in the hands of a great driver could the Barchetta win this race stock.


Nitrous Run.

Although I was in overtaking distance of the 5th placed Alfa Romeo by the second corner, I was'nt able to stay the same distance behind, I was dropping back now, the Nitrous lap was 6 seconds faster than Non Nitrous, but I still ended up 7 seconds behind after the first lap.




Cote D' Azur (Monaco) - Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due - 200 A Spec Points - No Nitrous Run.


Line Up :

Alfa Romeo GTV 3.0 V6 24V
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 24V
Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6 24V
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA
Alfa Romeo 166 2.5 V6 24V
Fiat Barchetta Giovane Due



By the time I was driving through the famous tunnel leading to the chicane I was extremelly far behind, well over 10 seconds, by the last sector, I was 20 seconds behind, this race is not possible to win driving this car, it lacks power and FF's don't handle well on city tracks.


I did'nt even try a Nitrous Run because I know that Nitrous can't make laps 20 seconds faster.


So to sum up, in my opinion the Fiat Barchetta can not win the Italian Festival Races.