Stock car race comparison/challenge

[BobK]

Well, thanks Kent for trying, and remember, you can add any stock race to the list, it doesn't necessarily have to be a 200 point race.

I'm sure as a long-time WRS administrator you had your fair amount of frustration by people not adhering to clearly stated rules, and while it's obvious from your frustrated reaction that you clearly weren't attempting to deliberately flout them in any way, they have been posted there in post #1 from day 1 of this thread. I don't feel it's right to make exceptions for the people in authority here, any more than a regular member.

I'll happily add your M5 at Infineon race, which BobK nabbed, if you wish. You'll see there's many entries here which have been duplicated by a few folks and there's no harm in that.
I presume you wanted the special distinction of grabbing a race and car combination that was unique to you.

Sorry again for your frustration, and I hope you come across something good soon after your anger subsides. Please PM me if you'd like to discuss this more. I may be able to make some useful suggestions for you.

I'd like to point out that I didn't nab this one (M5 at Infineon); it had already been done by jdw and George Morley. This is why I had no qualms about posting it. As I'd mentioned earlier, if it hadn't already been listed I would have PM'ed Kent so he might have the opportunity to get it posted first since he did after all mention the M5's possibilities in the 200 pt thread.

Kent, if this has caused any hard feelings I truly apologize.

 

[Smallhorses]

I'd like to point out that I didn't nab this one (M5 at Infineon); it had already been done by jdw and George Morley. This is why I had no qualms about posting it. As I'd mentioned earlier, if it hadn't already been listed I would have PM'ed Kent so he might have the opportunity to get it posted first since he did after all mention the M5's possibilities in the 200 pt thread.

Kent, if this has caused any hard feelings I truly apologize.

Don't worry, BobK all this talk of race-nabbing has been in jest, on my part!
There's absolutely no harm in repeating a race that's already posted, and in fact it helps to further validate the race since more than 1 person can do it, it proves it doesn't take some super-human racing skills to pull off.
Although there are some races out there that require just that, for much less than 200 points!
Validating the races is something I take relatively seriously and there have been several dubious submissions here that have been removed later when they were "found out" If 2 or more people post the same race, it immediately assuages any doubt about its possibility, which makes my job here easier! 👍

 

[Kent]

Ok guys,
I'm sorry about the dramatic nature of my speech. My comments were meant to be a joke, poking at bobk (originally). When I mentioned submitting the M5 it was a philosophical thing... What's the importance of submitting a unique time?
Any frustrations I expressed about the S2000 were not related to you Bobk.
Smallhorses picked up on that and mentioned it in passing, there's no foul and I certainly hope no harm for anyone here.

So with that said, I hope we can just move along with the discussion about stock cars.

3000GT vr-4 ('98)... Anyone here mentioned that sucker.
I'm sure it's been discussed but for the sake of mentioning my own recent efforts... 👍 The 3000GT at 168?kg is worth some good a-spec points. In the 1710kg form it will be a 200pt car (maybe, haven't tried yet).
Anyone tried that? (checking the first page now)...

Catch you guys later and again, let's just keep running, don't linger on passing comments.

 

[AMG.]

Hi Smallhorses, next time you 'speak' to hispeed you may want to ask him to recheck Mazda.

I believe there are 2 series missing:
NR-A Roadster Cup.
NR-A RX-8 Cup.

Just one other minor suggestion, those that have no car against them, and there's not many left, perhaps temp change colour of the race / series so they stand out more. Makes it easier to find the 'blanks'.



Edit: or perhaps it's on purpose? because I noticed a few more....

AMG.

 

[hispeed]

Hi there. The list has been updated. BobK and Kent added to Club 200.
Welcome all new submittors. Without the likes of you, this list would not excist.
As AMG has figured out, there are some races (manufacturers) missing in the list. If anyone can find interesting wins in these, I'll be most happy to post.

 

[Smallhorses]

Hi Smallhorses, next time you 'speak' to hispeed you may want to ask him to recheck Mazda.

I believe there are 2 series missing:
NR-A Roadster Cup.
NR-A RX-8 Cup.

AMG.

There's lots of manufacturer races not listed. This is due to the fact that when hispeed originally created the list, he wasn't going to be considering them. They were added later, although it'd be pointless to list some of them, e.g. Opel Speedster Cup, since they'd remain blank forever since there's no way a stock car can win those. Similarly people have shyed away from posting 60 point races, which is the most you can get in a stock vehicle in a single car event, such as Saleen S7 Club. There's no harm in posting these, but it's well known that 60 points is all you'll get, unless you've spent a lot of time racking up the miles on a car (usually over 8000 miles) to the point where permenant HP loss kicks in.
I'm working on a few Manufacturer series at the at the moment.....
Feel free to post them, it's easy enough for me to add them to my text file.

 

[RVDNuT374]

Special Conditions Hall: Swiss Alps Reverse (easy)
Car: '89 Mitsubishi Galant 2.0 DOHC Turbo VR4 / 4WD / 220 HP (oil changed) /1340 kg / 6.09 kg/HP / vs. '95 Lancer Evolution III GSR 129 A-spec by RVDNuT374

 

[Smallhorses]

Thanks RVDNuT374! 👍

Some more from me too.
Using stock R1 (RSH) tyres on both of these cars against AI running R5 (RSS) tyres makes these tricky!
However, I qualified in first place for each of the Beetle races which I won, but the race at Tsukuba I could only get 2nd on the grid and couldn't hold that for 3 laps, and Suzuka I got 1st on the grid, but got left at the start and couldn't make it past 2nd place.

The Lupo races were easier, had to qualify for Fuji and Suzuka, but Nurb' and Infineon races were won from the back of the grid! 👍 Again getting 1st place on the grid at Tsukuba wasn't possible, got 2nd place and held it.

Volkswagen Beetle Cup Races 1, 2 & 5
Car: VW New Beetle Cup Car '00 (Oil changed) / FF / ?HP (215HP on garage screen) / 1170kg / ?kg/HP (5.4kg/HP using garage value) / 106 A-spec points

Volkswagen Lupo Cup Races 1, 2, 4 & 5
Car: VW Lupo Cup Car '00 (Oil changed) / FF / ?HP (131HP on garage screen) / 840kg / ?kg/HP (6.4kg/HP using garage value) / 101 A-spec points

 

[Speedy Samurai]

Extreme Hall - Dream Car Championship

Races #1, 3, 7, 9, 10

AMEMIYA ASPARADRINK RX7 (JGTC) '04
Oil changed/ FR / R3 tires / 340hp / 1100kg

200 Aspec points!!

The other races (2, 4, 6, 8) I got owned by the Ford GT LM spec II '04. Grrr. Will try again against a different lineup but the only one I might be able to get the 200 points on is Hong Kong (#5).

 

[Smallhorses]

Nice one speedy_samurai!

Another go at the Lupo cup gives this:-

Volkswagen Lupo Cup - All Races
Car: VW Lupo GTI Cup Car (J) '03 / FF / 133HP / 1010kg / 7.6kg/HP / 117 A-spec points.

 

[Smallhorses]

Got some more, not max points, and not a roaring success, but I won the championship overall. Sarthe & Nurburgring were a step too far for a car giving away nearly 200HP to the Jaguar XJ220!

European Hall: Pan Euro Championship race 1,2 & 4
Car: TVR Tuscan Speed 6 '00 / FR / 361HP / 1100kg / 3.0kg/HP / 161 A-spec points

vs. 2nd lineup after reset, has TVR Griffith '94, TVR Tamora '02, Pagani Zonda C12 '00, Jaguar XJ220 '92 and Mercedes Benz SL600 (R230) '04 on the grid.

 

[Fizio]

@ Smallhorses: Here is a new entry like I promised...

Montegi 8h --> 200pts

Used brand new STOCK Lotus Elise 111R with oil change (202HP)... on N1 tyres and after first lap change to N3...

Line up:

1. Nismo Fairlady Z S-Tune concept by GranTurismo (Z33) '02
2. Opera Performance S2000 '04
3. Mugen S2000 '00
4. Spoon Civic Type R (EK) '00
5. Opera Performance 350Z '04
6. Lotus Elise 111R -> Me

 

[Smallhorses]

That's some good racing Fizio, but sadly, not within the rules, this is from post# 642:-

anybody ever think of allowing N tires? I re-raced these, with N2's, and easily got 113 points, and next I'll go for N1's

Yes, we've had the discussion many times before, the purpose of this thread is to make 200 points, or as many points as possible with a stock car, i.e. as it comes, with only a couple of exceptions. Since it's well known that adding N tyres makes more points, it was decided long ago not to allow N tyre entries for this particular list. Sorry.

Again to reiterate, the rules from post# 1 are:-

Stock car, (oil change allowed) no HP, suspension, braking or transmission modifications allowed. No NOS. No ballast weight added & no weight reduction modifications allowed.
Road cars must use S1-S3 tyres, preferably S2s that most cars come with, although many tuner cars come stock with S3s. Please state in your submission if you changed tyres. N tyres are not allowed.
Road cars can run R1 (RSH) tyres for Laguna Seca 200 miles race only.
Race cars must use stock (or harder tyres) generally this is R1-R3 tyres.
Race cars with adjustable parts fitted as stock may be adjusted (e.g. brake balance or transmission settings)
Special condition races can be run with dirt or snow tyres.

Submissions should be given in this format:-

Name of Race
Car: (model+year) / Drivetrain / HP / Weight / WPR / A-spec points earned
(Also stating tyre type if different from stock tyres, and whether oil has been changed.)

I know Fizio is destined to become only the 4th or 5th member of the 111,813 A-spec brigade, which is a hell of an achievement, and he's bound to have a stock 200 point race somewhere amongst them to submit! Look forward to getting a legal entry from you soon.

 

[Smallhorses]

Double Post, I Know! But......

This thread has just passed 40,000 views! 👍

Congratulations, once again to hispeed for creating such an awesome concept, club and race list!

 

[Fizio]

That's some good racing Fizio, but sadly, not within the rules,

To bad ...
I guess I woun't be joining the club then... IMO you should consider tyre rule again... The car has no modification and race rules alow Normal or Sports Tyres...


Endurance races: Motegi 8hr
Car: Nissan Silvia 240RS '83 / FR / 236HP / 970kg / 4.1kg/HP / 197 A-spec by route_66

This is in the list and sure is not on S tyres...

 

[Moloch_horridus]

To bad ...
I guess I woun't be joining the club then... IMO you should consider tyre rule again... The car has no modification and race rules alow Normal or Sports Tyres...


Endurance races: Motegi 8hr
Car: Nissan Silvia 240RS '83 / FR / 236HP / 970kg / 4.1kg/HP / 197 A-spec by route_66

This is in the list and sure is not on S tyres...

I have been looking for a stock car entry for this race too - with no luck - there are just not enough corners to make the sports tyres worth the loss of power. I think I will try the Mungen S2000 (stock) on N tyres.

I agree that there is definitely something wrong with route_66's entry here - that car will never get 197 points on S tyres - I would guess he used N1s to start and changed to N3s.

 

[Smallhorses]

Some more entries from me, having a crack at Schwarzwald Liga B.

European Hall: Schwartzwald Liga B race 2 - Tokyo
Car: BMW M3 GTR '03 / FR / 375HP / 1350kg / 3.6kg/HP / 111 A-spec points
vs. 5th or 6th lineup after reset. (Lost count, but it had a BMW M3 on pole!)

European Hall: Schwartzwald Liga B race 4 - High Speed Ring
Car: Mercedes-Benz CL600 '00 / FR / 362HP / 1955kg / 5.4kg/HP / 184 A-spec points
vs. 2nd lineup after reset.

European Hall: Schwartzwald Liga B race 3 - Fuji
Car: Audi S4 '03 / 4WD / 341HP / 1660kg / 4.9kg/HP / 156 A-spec points
vs. 1st lineup after reset.

European Hall: Schwartzwald Liga B race 5 - Suzuka
Car: RUF 3400S '00 / MR / 306HP / 1300kg / 4.2kg/HP / 139 A-spec points
can't remember lineup #

European Hall: Schwartzwald Liga B race 1 - Nurburgring
Car: Audi RS 4 '01 / 4WD / 379HP / 1620kg / 4.3kg/HP / 120 A-spec points
vs. 2nd lineup after reset.

 

[Smallhorses]

Endurance races: Motegi 8hr
Car: Nissan Silvia 240RS '83 / FR / 236HP / 970kg / 4.1kg/HP / 197 A-spec by route_66

This is in the list and sure is not on S tyres...

I agree that there is definitely something wrong with route_66's entry here - that car will never get 197 points on S tyres - I would guess he used N1s to start and changed to N3s.

Since you've both tried and failed with this to get the same points, I'll consider removing this from the list. This was on here well before I joined the thread, and it's something I never tried to replicate.
Are you both sure this isn't possible? Have you tried it against a lot of different lineups or just the first few?
There is some question over other submissions by route_66 but unfortunately he's not around to defend himself anymore, or provide proof.
Have you guys noticed any other dubious entries by him?

 

[Smallhorses]

Here's one I did earlier this evening, for maximum points.

Extreme hall: Real Circuit Tours Race 8 - Nurburgring
Car: BMW McLaren F1 GTR Race Car '97 (R2 tyres) / MR / ?HP (612HP on garage screen) / 950kg / ?kg/HP (1.6kg/HP using garage value) / 200 A-spec points

vs. first lineup after reset. Was 21s behind leader in 4th place going into lap 2, but knew from AMG.'s writeup for the Nissan GT-R Concept LM Race Car, that the AI would suffer tyre troubles. Oh boy, did they?!!!! Found Nissan R92CP parked sideways at Wehrseifen and Sauber span out between Wipperman and Eschbach, leaving me an easy win after I'd passed the AMG CLK GTR!

 

[AMG.]

but knew from AMG.'s writeup for the Nissan GT-R Concept LM Race Car, that the AI would suffer tyre troubles.

So do I get 10% of those Aspec points??
I need them otherwise I'm never going to get to 11813.

AMG.

 

[Moloch_horridus]

Since you've both tried and failed with this to get the same points, I'll consider removing this from the list. This was on here well before I joined the thread, and it's something I never tried to replicate.
Are you both sure this isn't possible? Have you tried it against a lot of different lineups or just the first few?
There is some question over other submissions by route_66 but unfortunately he's not around to defend himself anymore, or provide proof.
Have you guys noticed any other dubious entries by him?

This series has so few possible entrants that it cannot be a lineup issue - the 240RS (S100) has around 240hp and weighs 970kg, the 111R has around 192hp and weighs 860kg giving them a similar pwr. The aspec index for the 111R is 1033 and 1066 for the 240RS. Against almost the best lineup the 111R cannot possibly get 200 on S tyres so the 240RS would have even less chance. I think that ballast would also be required with the 240RS although against the toughest lineup it may not be necessary.

A stock used '96 Nissan 240SX might just win 200 but that would be an incredibly difficult race.

 

[Smallhorses]

Got another one, 100% clean for max points. Was all excited until I discovered it's already on the list! It seems though from the HP figure, that superfast may have done an oil change, whereas I didn't so I'll list it separately.

Extreme hall: Real Circuit Tours Race 5 - Infineon
Car: Nissan GT-R Concept LM Race Car ‘02 (R3 tires) / FR / ?HP (626HP on garage screen) / 1100kg / ?kg/HP (1.8kg/HP using garage value) / 200 A-spec points!

 

[RVDNuT374]

Another one:

Special Conditions Hall: George V Rally (normal)

Car: '02 Pontiac Solstice Coupe Concept / FR / 255 HP (oil changed) / 1318 kg / 5.17 kg/HP / vs. '04 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR GSR 114 A-spec by RVDNuT374

 

[AMG.]

Professional hall: GT World Championship Race 7 - Opera Paris
Car: Chaparral 2J Race Car '70 (R2 tyres) / MR / 659HP / 821kg / 1.24kg/HP / 200 A-spec by AMG.

I wasn't expecting this because previous attempts failed miserably. Happy to report that the Chap came through for me today an win with an unexpected MoV of 21.xxx seconds. It has lost some hp due to the 6500 miles it has now on the clock. Just checked the oil, it's not brand new but still yellow.

Edit: Honk Kong also bites the dust.
Professional hall: GT World Championship Race 3 - Hong Kong
Car: Chaparral 2J Race Car '70 (R2 tyres) / MR / 659HP / 821kg / 1.24kg/HP / 200 A-spec by AMG.

AMG.

 

[Smallhorses]

Thanks for the submissions, another update is imminent.

My latest submission, rounds out the endurance hall nicely!

Endurance races: Fuji 1000km
Car: AMG Mercedes CLK-GTR Race Car '98 (R1 tyres) / MR / ?HP (797HP on garage screen) / 1000kg / ?kg/HP (1.3kg/HP using garage value) / 200 A-spec points!

Very nice race, versus something like the 25th lineup after reset, (lost count after 20! ) but it has Audi R8 on pole, Nissan R89C, Sauber C 9, Nissan R390 and Nissan R92CP in the lineup. Writeup is in my Endurance companion in the Race Report forum. 👍

 

[RVDNuT374]

Special Conditions: George V Rally : Hard difficulty
Car: '77 Lancia Stratos Rally Car / MR / 291HP (oil changed) / 880kg / 3.02kg/HP / vs. '85 Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car 127 A-spec by RVDNuT374

Special Conditions: George V Rally (reverse) : Hard difficulty
Car: '77 Lancia Stratos Rally Car / MR / 291HP (oil changed) / 880kg / 3.02kg/HP / vs. '85 Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car 127 A-spec by RVDNuT374

 

[RVDNuT374]

More races:

Special Conditions : Tour of Tahiti : Hard difficulty
Car: '97 Mitsubishi Evo IV Rally Car / 4WD / 303 HP (oil changed) / 1230kg / 4.06 kg/HP / vs. '85 Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car 148 A-spec by RVDNuT374

Special Conditions : Tour of Tahiti (reverse) : Hard difficulty
Car: '97 Mitsubishi Evo IV Rally Car / 4WD / 303 HP (oil changed) / 1230kg / 4.06 kg/HP / vs. '85 Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car 148 A-spec by RVDNuT374

 

[Smallhorses]

Good going RVDNuT374! Thanks for those! Never did get round to making a list update last weekend, had other things to be getting on with in real life!

However, to plug another gap that ain't yet filled, here's one I've just done. It's not even close to max points, but it is one over the even race value, and was bloody hard even so!!!

Extreme hall: Polyphony Digital Cup Race 7 - Sarthe
Car: Toyota MR2 GT-S '97 (Used, no oil) / MR / 221HP / 1270kg / 5.7kg/HP / 61 A-spec points

vs. 45th (yes, forty fifth!!!) lineup after reset, information about which can be found in here:- Polyphony Digital Cup useful A-spec information!

 

[CRXnut]

I got one for the list. It looks like I might be the first one to do this race in stock car:

Endurance Races: Sarthe 24 hrs II
Car: Toyota GT One '99 / MR / 700HP / 900kg / 1.29kg/HP (used, no oil, R1, minimum downforce) - 200 A-Spec points

Very good race against first lineup. This car can win it easy with 55/70 downforce but I wanted to make it even more challenging so I used lowest downforce settings. Won by 50 seconds :-)

 

[RVDNuT374]

Honda- Type R Meeting (Motegi, Autumn Ring Reverse, Suzuka, Tsukuba)
Car: '01 Honda Civic Type R (EP) / 215HP (oil changed) / 1190kg / 5.5kg/HP / 183 A-Spec by RVDNuT374

Honda- Type R Meeting (Motorland Reverse)
Car: '01 Honda Civic Type R (EP) (S1 tires) / 215HP (oil changed) / 1190kg / 5.5kg/HP / 192 A-Spec by RVDNuT374