Suggestion Box.

[eggmann]

@Rolfje - Once you get your new X-Port working, if you have a spare memory card, someone could email you a couple garages which have every car in the game + about a trillion credits.

 

[Kent]

Hey Pimp, it's great to see you again.

What's up, the woman's chains break from the rust of your damp basement? (btw, we did the rsx a few weeks ago... sorry. )

Well you guys have made the choices for me.

I will not do my specific tuning comparison races.
Out of distrust for some, out of ease of racing for others.

But since I am not going to get to do this awesome set up I had, I want to run it by you guys... get this.

Mugen S2000
Maxed out power and lightweight stage 2.
380hp @ 8400 rpm
1103 kg
2.902 pwr
.339 twr

Spoon S2000
Semi-tuned power, no lightweights availible for car.
380hp @ 9100 rpm
1100 kg
2.894 pwr
.360 twr

This means that the spoon makes peak power at a higher rpm with a .008 pwr advantage.
Then the mugen makes peak power at a lower rpm, but has a .021 twr advantage. The weight difference is only 3kg.

They lap almost the exact same when I test. And one of the most intresting points to this comparo is the fact that we could set up an honestly even race between two cars of the same make, but from different tuners.

It would really make for a great race if you ask me because it would come down to the driver making the difference, and because each racer could race a car based on his team prefference (mugen vs spoon) instead of what the fastest car is...
I'm just tired of comparisons where there is always a clearly better car. (even though I enjoyed the bmw/alteeza race, the alteeza was the better car from the get-go)

So... now that this S2000 Cup is no longer a possibility.

I will stick you all with some crap arcade car.
Enjoy it.

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by GoKents
Hey Pimp, it's great to see you again.

What's up, the woman's chains break from the rust of your damp basement? (btw, we did the rsx a few weeks ago... sorry. )

Well considering I am moving in with the woman here, I am trying to not step on toes too much and consider she is leaving here in 2 weeks to go work for five months out of the States, She is going to be real sensitive about playing video games, but I'll work it in. . . So a Crappy Arcade car huh? hmm how about a Miata

 

[Kent]

I just thought about it a bit, and if miata is finally going to be coming back (even if it is just a chance), then I should set us to race something that is atleast a little fun.

So as always, keep the suggestions coming.

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by GoKents
if miata is finally going to be coming back (even if it is just a chance

I wish I put together another 13b

 

[Rolfje]

eggman, miata, thanks for the xport tips. I will really try to keep my own saved game and race the weeklies with it (I'm one of those anally honest guys without action replays etc.).

If it proved to be a problem I'll be glad to work something out with the Xport which is "mentally acceptable" for me

GoKents, an advantage of racing a single car is that it doesn't take long for you to "test drive" and check settings for 2 cars. Easier on the private life.

I'm really curious how one can check car settings from a replay, I got to try that when I have my xport....

Have fun in week 54!

 

[BigJamesGTI]

Originally posted by GoKents
Hey Pimp, it's great to see you again.

What's up, the woman's chains break from the rust of your damp basement? (btw, we did the rsx a few weeks ago... sorry. )

Well you guys have made the choices for me.

I will not do my specific tuning comparison races.
Out of distrust for some, out of ease of racing for others.

But since I am not going to get to do this awesome set up I had, I want to run it by you guys... get this.

Mugen S2000
Maxed out power and lightweight stage 2.
380hp @ 8400 rpm
1103 kg
2.902 pwr
.339 twr

Spoon S2000
Semi-tuned power, no lightweights availible for car.
380hp @ 9100 rpm
1100 kg
2.894 pwr
.360 twr

This means that the spoon makes peak power at a higher rpm with a .008 pwr advantage.
Then the mugen makes peak power at a lower rpm, but has a .021 twr advantage. The weight difference is only 3kg.

They lap almost the exact same when I test. And one of the most intresting points to this comparo is the fact that we could set up an honestly even race between two cars of the same make, but from different tuners.

It would really make for a great race if you ask me because it would come down to the driver making the difference, and because each racer could race a car based on his team prefference (mugen vs spoon) instead of what the fastest car is...
I'm just tired of comparisons where there is always a clearly better car. (even though I enjoyed the bmw/alteeza race, the alteeza was the better car from the get-go)

So... now that this S2000 Cup is no longer a possibility.

I will stick you all with some crap arcade car.
Enjoy it.

I dont think the above would be no longer a possibility, given the options for the two cars above I wouldnt mind running the s2000 cup !!!

I just meant that if the pwr was limited or we had to have xyz for 4th and 5th gears then it'd be a bit of a bore rather than enjoying racing. Why not have a s2000 cup and run it over 2 weeks ???? split the divisions into half and give each "team" a s2000 to run with for a week. Have week 1 thread entitled
team A mugen s2000
then
team B spoon s2000

two different threads for each week due to their being two cars and two racing groups ????

then we get to join back together as a full "team" for the week after.

I think its a crackin idea - and as you are in charge Kent you decide which "team" has who in it

again its just my humble opinion

 

[eggmann]

Originally posted by Rolfje
If it proved to be a problem I'll be glad to work something out with the Xport which is "mentally acceptable" for me

My "method", which I'm sure is shared by some:
1. Get two memory cards.
2. One card is for my "solo game", the other is for "OLR".
3. Never trade any cars across the games.
4. Never have my "solo game" memory card in PS2 when Sharkport is hooked up, to avoid accidentally overwriting it.

As for verifying car parts/ settings once you have an X-Port, MK's garage editor is the most widely used. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/t-28735.html

There's also a Replay Manager here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21270&highlight=replay+manager

 

[NielsG]

One of the strength of the weekly, as I see it, is the huge variation. It's the mixture of fun, challenging or even scary races, that makes me want to stay in.

Off course you should listen to us, but don't listen to much, because things will end up being to mainstream/boring then. Please throw your "crazy" ideas at us. The worst thing, that can happen, is some racers drop a week. But in the long run, I do believe, it will make us come back the next to see, what you've got for us.

Keep up the good work. 👍

 

[miata13B]

Audi S4 at Rome II there is my suggestion

 

[Kent]

Originally posted by BigJamesGTI
I dont think the above would be no longer a possibility, given the options for the two cars above I wouldnt mind running the s2000 cup !!!

I just meant that if the pwr was limited or we had to have xyz for 4th and 5th gears then it'd be a bit of a bore rather than enjoying racing. Why not have a s2000 cup and run it over 2 weeks ???? split the divisions into half and give each "team" a s2000 to run with for a week. Have week 1 thread entitled
team A mugen s2000
then
team B spoon s2000

two different threads for each week due to their being two cars and two racing groups ????

then we get to join back together as a full "team" for the week after.

I think its a crackin idea - and as you are in charge Kent you decide which "team" has who in it

again its just my humble opinion

This is just tragic... too bad I didn't see this sort of post initially...

Right now we could have been set up to run one of the most even tuner races I have ever created. Now...

And as if I would ever ask for specific gearing or suspension tuning.

Oh well.

Originally posted by Rolfje
GoKents, an advantage of racing a single car is that it doesn't take long for you to "test drive" and check settings for 2 cars. Easier on the private life.

Ahh... the beauty of the above comp is... just look at the numbers... with cars that close it shouldn't be about the car, but the driver and his/her personal reasons for picking a specific one.
For example, say you don't like that black hood on the mugen, or say you don't like the lacking torque of the spoon... well there you go, the choice is made.

Anyway keep the suggestions coming everyone.
Later.

 

[Bollocks#999]

Arcade Viper@Laguna Seca, just another suggestion

 

[daan]

As Famine pointed out, 44 of the 53 races have been hotlaps. So...

Polyphony Cup - 20 laps - standard road car (No setup options). 👍

And before the argument about it taking too long is wheeled out, how long did it take you to get 1 lap at Midfield in a Supra?

 

[HareTurtle]

This is not a suggestion for a particular car or race, but for a system for promoting/demoting drivers between divisions. It woud enable a driver in a lower division to bump a driver from a higher division by posting a better time. Rules, subject to some tweaking, would be:

1: A driver from a lower division will be promoted if he posts a better time than a driver in the next higher division, and the slowest driver from the higher division will be demoted.

2: The number of drivers promoted/ demoted between any two divisions would be equal (i.e. if two go up, two go down, etc).

3: A driver could not be promoted if it caused a driver with a faster time to be demoted.

Consider the Week 49 results (copied below) for example:

RSCosworth would move up to Division 1, and Famine would drop to Division 2. Even though MichaelK had a better time than Famine, he would not move up, because the "equal number up/down" rule would mean that Kent would move down, but Kent had a better time than MK.

In Division 2/3, Tehborderican and Scuderia would move up, Jpec and Fryz would move down. NeilsG would not be able to advance because hippyneil has a better time.

I think racing every week with the opportunity to advance, and in jeapordy of dropping a division, would be highly motivating and would make the WRS even more exciting.

Division 1

1.11.157 Mr. P Impreza Prototype
1.11.337 eggmann Ford Focus
1.11.389 GT3mich Ford Focus
1.11.982 lotus350 Impreza Prototype
1.12.352 danoff Impreza Prototype
1.12.460 GoKents
1.15.494 Famine Impreza Prototype

Division 2

1.13.051 RSCosworth Ford Focus
1.13.145 Michael K Impreza Prototype
1.13.463 Barbol Impreza Prototype
1.13.706 BlazingDragon Ford Focus
1’13.734 Redline Fox Impreza Prototype
1.14.210 hippyneil Impreza Prototype
1.15.474 Jpec07 Impreza Prototype
1.16.272 Small_Fryz Impreza Prototype

Division 3

1.13.505 TehBorderican
1.14.325 scuderia229 Impreza Prototype
1.14.767 NielsG Impreza Prototype
1.15.299 HareTurtle Impreza Prototype
1.15.652 Hucker696 Impreza Prototype
1.18.809 filmfan EVO VI Rally

edit: added rule numbers for reference. Added slowest to rule 1.

 

[Kent]

Originally posted by HareTurtle
This is not a suggestion for a particular car or race, but for a system for promoting/demoting drivers between divisions. It woud enable a driver in a lower division to bump a driver from a higher division by posting a better time. Rules, subject to some tweaking, would be:

- A driver from a lower division will be promoted if he posts a better time than a driver in the next higher division, and the driver from the higher division will be demoted.

- The number of drivers promoted/ demoted between any two divisions would be equal (i.e. if two go up, two go down, etc).

- A driver could not be promoted if it caused a driver with a faster time to be demoted.

Consider the Week 49 results (copied below) for example:

RSCosworth would move up to Division 1, and Famine would drop to Division 2. Even though MichaelK had a better time than Famine, he would not move up, because the "equal number up/down" rule would mean that Kent would move down, but Kent had a better time than MK.

In Division 2/3, Tehborderican and Scuderia would move up, Jpec and Fryz would move down. NeilsG would not be able to advance because hippyneil has a better time.

I think racing every week with the opportunity to advance, and in jeapordy of dropping a division, would be highly motivating and would make the WRS even more exciting.

I'm really glad to see you taking such an intrest. You will be of help to me in the future should your enthusiasm hold.

However, I must say that I don't like the idea for promotion/demotion.

It just doesn't do justice to the racers or the divisions.
(first off, you used the results from 1 of 3 rally races... not exactly the racing style of choice for some of us)

Really, I think the problem with this system would be one simple thing... Participation.

Think about this: How many people would not submit a time out of fear that they would be demoted ?

Basically, I think there would be too many un-warranted changes in divisions if this system were implamented.

Like week 53... cinjun8 beat every pro that was behind me. (including myself)
Now would you really like to see all of those pros (gt3mich, daan, danoff, famine, me...etc. ) in div 2 just because one guy could take it up to mid-pack div 1?

Personally, I have no problem going into div 2, but it will certainly ruin the day for a bunch of podium finishers in div 2. (thats for sure)

Sorry, but I just woke up, so Im gonna have to elaborate on this later, right now I just can't get complex thoughts out.
(need coffee, food and a smoke. )

Talk to you all later today.

 

[Rolfje]

I like the idea, but it looks like it would almost be like a single division race, wouldn't it?

Suppose you race a track that's simply "not you" you would get demoted, only to get promoted again the week thereafter.

Maybe a "Bottom percentage" would add some rest to the standings. Otherwise, GoKents spends promoting/demoting racers to/from divisions every week, judging from the results of the past 3 weeks.

In RC car racing in the netherlands it's done like this: At the end of the season, the last 10 drivers have to race "outsiders" in a qualifier race. The top 10 drivers of this race get their licence for next year.

Maybe in our case it should be something like:
3 wins in a rows promotes, 3 last place results in a row demotes.

Is a bit more spread acros results, still short enough (3 weeks to get promoted) and quite exhillerating (Ooooh I MUST win this one to get promoted!)

How about that? I agree with HareTurtle that there should be some "rule" or at least "rule of thumb" about promotions. (Maybe then I'll have a chance of promoting after I hone my skills )

 

[HareTurtle]

Originally posted by GoKents
Basically, I think there would be too many un-warranted changes in divisions if this system were implamented.

Like week 53... cinjun8 beat every pro that was behind me. (including myself)
Now would you really like to see all of those pros (gt3mich, daan, danoff, famine, me...etc. ) in div 2 just because one guy could take it up to mid-pack div 1?

Actually, for week 53, only 2 drivers (Cinjun and Bollocks) would move from div 2 to div 1, and only the two slowest div 1 drivers would move down. By the rules I proposed, one div 2 driver can only demote 1 div 1 driver, no matter how many div 1 drivers he beats. And week 53 was a bit unusual in terms of the overlap between divisions.

I share your concern about a possible effect on participation, but I hope that we are underestimating the pride and integrity of our WRS drivers. Even now some drivers will skip a week if they feel the car/track combo is a weakness, but I think most of us will be willing to play the hand we're dealt and roll with the punches. (How's that for a mixed metaphor?) We could make a little chicken smilie available should it prove necessary.

Anyway, getting demoted would not be the end of the world. It would give guys who are used to finishing near the bottom of their div a chance to compete for a podium, and an incentive to move back up. I think right now we tend to think of our division as something nearly permanent, rather than something that might change week to week, so some adjustment would be necessary. I think this could generate some pretty good rivalries along the boundaries of the divisions.

 

[HareTurtle]

Thought of a couple of tweaks to the original idea, that might help with the possible effect on participation. Add rules 4 and 5:

4: A driver who has participated for 3* weeks, with jeopardy to be demoted, will earn 1 "bye" week, which he may use at a time of his choice. The driver must declare his use of the "bye" at the time of his time submission. A driver using a "bye" would not be subject to demotion or promotion for that week. A driver can only accumulate 2* unused "byes".

5: In order to be eligible for promotion, a driver must have participated in each of the previous 3* weeks.

* These numbers are just suggestions and may need to be adjusted.

Rule 4 would allow drivers who are participating regularly to ocassionaly submit a time when the race or car doesn't suit them, or when real life keeps them from giving their best effort.

Rule 5 would discourage drivers from just racing when the race suits their strengths. Rule 5 might be modified to include a provision for excused absences, if these are requested before the race details are announced.

 

[Rolfje]

I think we should keep one very import thing in mind: The weekly race format is simplicity. Let's keep the promotion rules SIMPLE.

We're 3 posts further and we allready have 5 rules with exceptions to boot.... Let's try something simpler.

B.t.w. I found the chicken icon you looked for

 

[Kent]

Originally posted by HareTurtle
Actually, for week 53, only 2 drivers (Cinjun and Bollocks) would move from div 2 to div 1, and only the two slowest div 1 drivers would move down. By the rules I proposed, one div 2 driver can only demote 1 div 1 driver, no matter how many div 1 drivers he beats. And week 53 was a bit unusual in terms of the overlap between divisions.

I like this part, it shows the refinement of your thoughts and gives me a good idea of what your saying, I like it for sure. However, I'm not sure I like one thing about it...

You see, with this thought process (the one you are using to demote and promote at the same time), there is almost no standard of what a pro is. To say that another way, take a license test as an example.
When we can all get gold, that doesn't mean the time designated for gold needs to be moved it means that we are all racers capable of a gold worthy performance in that scenerio.

If we keep pushing the standard for being a pro up and up, we will never show respect for those that have mastered the game, but still haven't gone to that next level of excellence.

I share your concern about a possible effect on participation, but I hope that we are underestimating the pride and integrity of our WRS drivers. Even now some drivers will skip a week if they feel the car/track combo is a weakness, but I think most of us will be willing to play the hand we're dealt and roll with the punches. (How's that for a mixed metaphor?) We could make a little chicken smilie available should it prove necessary.

Indeed, I will share your confidence in our racers, but I will not gamble the life of the series on that confidence. Instead of providing races that seem to be a test of a racer's competence, I will continue to provide races that allow a racer to display his/her talants without worries of negative consequences.

Anyway, getting demoted would not be the end of the world. It would give guys who are used to finishing near the bottom of their div a chance to compete for a podium, and an incentive to move back up. I think right now we tend to think of our division as something nearly permanent, rather than something that might change week to week, so some adjustment would be necessary. I think this could generate some pretty good rivalries along the boundaries of the divisions.

Well hey... I just got here. I need to observe atleast 2 weeks of racing before I can start moving people around. (which I plan on doing, so some of you might not want to get too comfortable. )

I also want to mention that I feel demotion of rank should be limited to A. Individual's personal request for demotion, or B. Consistant last place results.

I am sure you will all see that I can be fair about division changes.

However, I think Rolfje has the right idea. Consistant placements at the bottom of the pack (while still placing below the top runners of the lower division) should lead to demotion.

Right now, I only know of one or two racers that have demotion on their minds, and atleast 1 racer has contacted me with a request for division re-qualification if not an outright demotion.

I will be active in this fellas, don't you worry... but let me remind you, I spent 11 weeks in the amatuer/div 2 league before making the pro/div 1 grade.

Patience is a virtue.

 

[HareTurtle]

Originally posted by Rolfje
We're 3 posts further and we allready have 5 rules with exceptions to boot.... Let's try something simpler.

I could make it one long rule if you'd prefer.

The principles can be summarized in two sentences:

I: If you beat more drivers in the division above you, than you lose to in your own division, and you raced the previous three weeks, you will move up a division.

II: If you lose to more drivers in the division below yours than you beat in your own division, you will move down a division, unless you are taking a "bye" week, which you earned by risking demotion in three previous races..

BTW Rolfje, thanks for the chicken.

 

[HareTurtle]

In response to GoKents post from the bottom of the previous page, which I won't quote due to length, I would just like to say that it was not my intention in making this suggestion to imply any criticism of the way Kent or boombexus have handled division assignments.

My intent was to offer a suggestion that I thought might add a little drama and excitement to the series. I am not going to "push" this idea, since if the concept of staking your status on your submission each week doesn't appeal to people, then it's a non-starter. I have tried to post just enough so that people are clear on what the proposal is before passing judgement on it. And of course I would not want to risk the future of the WRS by making any change that lacked overwhelming support.

So now I'll just shutup and drive.

 

[Rolfje]

Sounds like something I could live with, but if it gets more complicated, people will get easily demotivated because they don't know what's going on.

I was online-racing within a day. I think that's mainly because of the simplicity: Submit a lap, and see where you end up!

 

[Kent]

Not to worry hare, but at the same time, I think there is something missing from what I've been trying to get across...

Discretion.

When boom ran the series, I think his own powers of judgement were the key to rankings and problem solving. Nothing in this series needs a broad and sweeping system of rules.

I am personally aquianted with most of the racers here, and if something arises I put in personal time and effort to make sure any problems or concerns are taken care of.

I would rather personalize the series than standardize.

I will move rankings around when it is needed, simple as that.
Not to worry, I hope I haven't insulted anyone, as no insult has been taken on my side... that said...

Let's get back to the races !

Any suggestions about next week will be gladly accepted.

btw, why are you guys even concerned about this... I've looked over the last 4 weeks of results and all I noticed was 2 possible changers and 2 to keep an eye on, so whats up?

 

[eggmann]

/me hopes he's not on the chopping block after a couple bad weeks!

 

[Bollocks#999]

How about doing a time trial for next week?

 

[miata13B]

^ bastige for posting that before me

 

[Bollocks#999]

beat ya to the punch there old son

 

[miata13B]

^ age before beauty older brother

 

[HareTurtle]

Originally posted by GoKents
btw, why are you guys even concerned about this... I've looked over the last 4 weeks of results and all I noticed was 2 possible changers and 2 to keep an eye on, so whats up?

Sorry if I gave anyone the impression that I was in any way concerned with, or dissatisfied with, the division assignment of anybody, least of all myself. Being a racer of somewhat limited ability by OLR standards, it was the division system that attracted me to the WRS in the first place. I've enjoyed good competition and some fairly close finishes with Scuderia229, NielsG, and the other div 3 racers.

My suggestion was just an idea that I thought might make the weekly races a little more exciting by "raising the stakes" a little. Please don't read anything else into it.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is rarely a bad policy.