Super GT Thread ArchiveTouring Cars

[Bo]

Anything that lasts over 1 hour is not a sprint to me. Some moves in DTM are a bit ham-fisted I think, they don't have much finesse for very close racing.

If this was DTM, half the overtakes would have ended in disaster. Here, they're not afraid to go 3-wide on the grass to make a move stick, but that wouldn't happen in DTM. I'm not saying they're bad drivers, I just think they're more suited to a qualifying stint than wheel-to-wheel racing.

 

[Tired Tyres]

DTM uses a control tyre, Super GT has free tyre choice that makes a big difference.

Third Reign is right about multi class racing though. It's coming up on a slower car robbing you of momentum that give the guy behind you a chance to pass.

^ That's a post season fan service race not the real championship. There are plenty of examples of penalties for collisions there. Look at the last round at Motegi and see how the Wedsports SC430 passes the ARTA Honda.



1 hour 23 minutes 46 seconds onwards.

 

[Bo]

I cried when I first watched that, I am now actively seeking revenge against Project Bandoh.

 

[IforceV8]

I love it when people that are blocking get taken out.

 

[Bo]

I love it when people that are blocking get taken out.

He wasn't totally blocking, he was passing a GT300 car and the Bandoh SC430 didn't bother to move either side of him.

 

[IforceV8]

He wasn't totally blocking, he was passing a GT300 car and the Bandoh SC430 didn't bother to move either side of him.

I'm talking about the Arta and the Lexus @ 1hr 24 min mark

 

[Bo]

Yes, i'm talking about that. He moved out of the way for the GT300 car, then moved straight to the inside to defend into turn 1. The Bandoh car should have gone to his outside (left) instead of plowing full throttle into the back of him.

 

[IforceV8]

Yes, i'm talking about that. He moved out of the way for the GT300 car, then moved straight to the inside to defend into turn 1. The Bandoh car should have gone to his outside (left) instead of plowing full throttle into the back of him.

That should happen to all blockers.

 

[Jav]

That should happen to all blockers.

Oh yeah, let's kill all drivers who rightfully defend their possitions. Blocking is one thing, he made a single move which he had all rights of doing, the car passing has the responsability of doing so safely which he did the total opposite!

 

[LancerEvo7]

The Lexus had all the room in the world to avoid the ARTA car.

 

[IforceV8]

The Lexus had all the room in the world to avoid the ARTA car.

Wrong.

 

[RACECAR]

That should happen to all blockers.

So a driver shouldn't be allowed to defend his position?

Also, there was plenty of room for that Lexus to go so there was no excuse for the HSV to have been turned.

 

[LancerEvo7]

Wrong.

He had everywhere but the very inside lane, where the ARTA car was going to, and the very outside lane, where the GT300 was. And the front straight at Motegi certainly doesn't lack width.

 

[IforceV8]

Watch the video again and notice from the long camera shot from turn 1 and then from the side view that the Lexus carried more speed out of the chicane and was going for the inside line when the Arta cut him off.

Defending the inside is a pre-emptive move and is perfectly fine and in the end ultimately slows down both cars.Blocking is a reactionary move that happens when the lead car thinks he is entitled to the entire track and will drive the other guy into the pit wall to keep the spot.(think Schumi and Rubens @ Hungary and Heidfeld vs everybody in Malaysia)

 

[Bo]

The car behind has a steering wheel, you can't just say "that car's in front of me, but I was here first, so i'll smash him into the wall." And no, it wasn't blocking, he turned the avoidance of the GT300 into defending the inside line into turn 1. It's basic racing etiquette, and a very bad decision on Bandoh's part.

 

[Müle]

Oh yeah, let's kill all drivers who rightfully defend their possitions. Blocking is one thing, he made a single move which he had all rights of doing, the car passing has the responsability of doing so safely which he did the total opposite!

"Rightfully" lol.

The Lexus moved as far inside as he could. His choices were:

a) drive into the wall and take himself out of the race
b) drive into the back of the Honda that was trying to cut his nose off

Yes, you get one move to defend, but not when the attacking driver has already moved inside to try to pass. That is called blocking. The Lexus moved first, the Honda moved second. That's a block.

The car behind has a steering wheel, you can't just say "that car's in front of me, but I was here first, so i'll smash him into the wall." And no, it wasn't blocking, he turned the avoidance of the GT300 into defending the inside line into turn 1. It's basic racing etiquette, and a very bad decision on Bandoh's part.

If he was only trying to pass the GT300, he wouldn't have kept moving towards the inside wall. It was a block by any definition. The Lexus used his steering wheel to move as far right as he could (to the point where his right side tires were under the white line), and the Honda reacted (key word) by blocking.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Watching these vids makes me wonder why PD hasn't gotten around to modeling the 2013 Super GT 500s.

 

[Bo]

If he was only trying to pass the GT300, he wouldn't have kept moving towards the inside wall. It was a block by any definition. The Lexus used his steering wheel to move as far right as he could (to the point where his right side tires were under the white line), and the Honda reacted (key word) by blocking.

Read my post, he turned the avoidance into a perfectly legal move. And there is no problem in defending a position, it's the basic idea of racing. And what makes him need to go up the inside into turn 1? He had all the space in the world to line up the outside, but he decided to hold his line for no apparent reason and drive very aggressively into the back of Ralph. If you honestly think that it was Ralph's fault, you don't understand how motorsport works.

 

[Müle]

Read my post, he turned the avoidance into a perfectly legal move. And there is no problem in defending a position, it's the basic idea of racing. And what makes him need to go up the inside into turn 1? He had all the space in the world to line up the outside, but he decided to hold his line for no apparent reason and drive very aggressively into the back of Ralph. If you honestly think that it was Ralph's fault, you don't understand how motorsport works.

As has been said before in here, defending is a proactive move.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/proactive

pro·ac·tive or pro-ac·tive (pr

-

k

t

v)
adj.
Acting in advance to deal with an expected difficulty; anticipatory: proactive steps to prevent terrorism.

The Honda driver, after making his move to overtake the GT300, sees the Lexus driver try to pass him. He then made a reactive move to go further to the right, after the Lexus had already committed to the right side.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/react

re·act (r

-

kt

)
v. re·act·ed, re·act·ing, re·acts
v.intr.
1. To act in response to or under the influence of a stimulus or prompting: reacted strongly to the sarcastic tone of the memorandum.

Like I said in my last post, the part where I quoted @Jav that you completely ignored, after the reaction by the Honda driver, the Lexus driver had two options:

a) drive into the wall and take himself out of the race
b) drive into the back of the Honda that was trying to cut his nose off

The only aggressive move was the block by the Honda driver. He should have realized that the Lexus had a huge run out of the last turn and kept it straight after he overtook the GT300. But instead, the Honda was dead set on driving the Lexus into the pit wall and got spun out for his troubles.

I'll ignore the subtle ad hominem insult you directed towards me in your last sentence for now.

 

[Bo]

As has been said before in here, defending is a proactive move.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/proactive


The Honda driver, after making his move to overtake the GT300, sees the Lexus driver try to pass him. He then made a reactive move to go further to the right, after the Lexus had already committed to the right side.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/react


Like I said in my last post, the part where I quoted @Jav that you completely ignored, after the reaction by the Honda driver, the Lexus driver had two options:



The only aggressive move was the block by the Honda driver. He should have realized that the Lexus had a huge run out of the last turn and kept it straight after he overtook the GT300. But instead, the Honda was dead set on driving the Lexus into the pit wall and got spun out for his troubles.

I'll ignore the subtle ad hominem insult you directed towards me in your last sentence for now.

You don't understand - his job is to make it difficult to pass. He was lining up turn 1 , not veering cross the track to cover the current move. And why, again, does Bandoh only have to go up the inside? You're missing the fact that there was a ton of room round the outside, therefore any inside move was stupid because it could have only ended one way.

 

[Müle]

Because if he turned left to try the outside, the result would have been the same, because of the atrociously dirty block by the Honda. He was 100% committed.

 

[Bo]

Because if he turned left to try the outside, the result would have been the same, because of the atrociously dirty block by the Honda. He was 100% committed.

He could have moved left or right:

It actually looks as if he was drafting him, because he follows him over to the other side of the track. It is possible he just stuck onto the back of him for too long and ended up hitting him, which would be an even worse error of judgement.

As a racing driver looking to make a clean, effective pass, he should have chosen the outside. Ralph has every right to defend his position in such a manner.

 

[Müle]

He could have moved left or right:
[pic]

Yes, lets move left, straight into the back of the Lamborghini! Truly brilliant idea.

It actually looks as if he was drafting him, because he follows him over to the other side of the track. It is possible he just stuck onto the back of him for too long and ended up hitting him, which would be an even worse error of judgement.
[pic2]

This second picture clearly demonstrates my entire point. The Lexus made the first move, while the Honda reacted. Reacted. Reacted. Reacted.

Reaction = block = dirty

As a racing driver looking to make a clean, effective pass, he should have chosen the outside. Ralph has every right to defend his position in such a manner.

You do not have the right to block. You never have the right to block.

I'm done. This is pointless.

 

[Bo]

Reaction = block = dirty

Blocking is not dirty. You are allowed, in every form of racing on the planet, at least one change of direction to defend your position. All drivers must expect this and not plow into everyone who changes their line.

 

[Müle]

Tell me this isn't dirty (as a Will Power fan):



start at :55

Tell me right now that that isn't dirty.

 

[Bo]

That was two changes in direction, he was not lining up for the next turn in his line so he drifted back up to the middle. That would be classed as illegal, the ARTA move would not.

 

[Müle]

That was two changes in direction,

No it wasn't.

 

[Bo]

If there wasn't two changes in direction, it was fine. They're the rules outlined.

 

[sumbrownkid]

If the blocking was deemed illegal then the marshalls of Super GT would've said something about it.

Unfortunately it was another incident that could've been avoided, and honestly the Lexus had laps left to make more moves later on.

 

[Tired Tyres]

You take the chance when it crops up mate. Moving in response to another cars move is against the FIA rules. This my not apply to a national series.

You can move the line of your car to a defensive line but you can't move a second time and you must leave at least one cars width no matter what. Again, this might be F1 only, but it won't take long before it becomes de-facto in every series.

The Lexus didn't do anything wrong. The ARTA car made a block & didn't leave enough space on the inside.

Anyone suggesting that the lexus could somehow magically change its line at that point has probably been playing NFS Shift. You can't do this when you are that close to another car.

The Lexus got a drive through penalty so clearly GTA thought they did something wrong but not much because if they thought the Lexus was solely responsible for the incident that made another car crash like that the punishment would have been much worse.