Sweet Dreams, Sweetheart... Sleeper Cars!

[JNasty4G63]

Other stock sleepers that come to mind:
Ford SVT F-150 Lightning (mid 13 second pick-up truck)
Ford SVT Focus
Ford SHO Taurus

How could you forget the SVT Contour. That thing was the best. A buddy of mine had one a couple years back. Not really THAT fast, but it would keep up with a lot of things that you wouldn't think it would. He had just a few mods on his, but it was pretty kick ass. I mean, hell, its a Contour. How much more SLEEPER can you get.

Also, can I nominate my car??? I know its a sporty coupe, and the DSMs are known to be easilly modded and can be fast. But, not many people expect one thats street driven to be close to running 10s. Besides the IC, rims, and exhaust, its basically stock on the outside. The cars are actually so common, many people do actually pass it off as just another mildly tuned DSM, nothing more. Who knows. It seems to shock people around here when I race them, so it must be a little of a sleeper. Especially at M.A.M. on the road course. I've passed MANY cars that you just wouldn't think it should. Very fun out there.

Hilg

 

[PublicSecrecy]

I see this all the time, and I used to be guilty of it myself when i was younger. Hummers are not the Ultimate.... well anything. Being In the military, and driving my fair share of REAL Hummers, I think i'm more qualified than most on this subject. Hummers, well H1's as you civies know them now, were a good design, pretty inovative even. But When it comes to Offroading, they are too heavy (except for some unloaded military versions ie, softop pickup) and underpowered. Full I.S. is not the way to go for offroading. For a normal dirt road type stuff, yeah, smoother ride, but when it comes to really getting into it, Straight Axle rigs are the only way to go. (so far, i'm sure I.S. will continue to advance) And the H2 is joke. I wouldn't take that monster offroad any sooner than an Escalade. GM has accomplished it's mission though: Make tons of money of the Hummer name and look. I would always take an H1 over a H2 or H3 however. H1's are not total crap, but not the Truck Gods alot of people praise them to be.

*On Topic*
My sleeper Vote goes to C3 Vettes. I think they would surprise a lot of people in road course performance.

Wasn't the Hummer/H1 actually designated the HMMV? ([unknown letter] Multi-wheeled Millitary Vehicle) Which was then started being called a Humvee...and then went to be called a Hummer, which around that time GM started producing the H1 available for purchase to the public (for a measley 120 grand) Then about 12 years later they started to make the H2. I still think the Hummer H1 is a great tactical and dirt conquering machine. With all the goodies on it including like 4 computers to completely manage the vehicles performance (in the dash!) for the suspension, drivetrain, TCS/ESC, and even tire pressure regulators that allow you to inflate or deflate the tire to achieve maximum grip or traction, coupled with the fact that whoever drives these beasts are specially trained in how to go over crap with them. In the army anyway. I've lost my point, so i'll move on to the sleeper.

My definition of a sleeper is basically anything that doesnt show that the car has any performance-oriented body modifications, which may or may not include decals. If i got the decals i would put them in inconspicuous places, like the mirrors or the indents under the door handles or something. Sleepers can be found in GT4- technically all the cars are sleepers, unless theyre racing series or WRC/F1 etc. . All the cars have huge tuning opportunities and dont show (except for wheels and exhaust) any external body modifications. My favorite stock sleeper is the Buick Grand National, followed by Steve's brothers' Audi A4, and then my neighbour's blue Acura TL.

 

[Famine]

So what is it, a Lotus Carlton, a Vauxhall Carlton or an Opel Omega?

I can see there being some niggling over what to call that... "it's a Lotus! No it's a Vauxhall! You're both wrong - it's an Opel".

Better them then me!

The standard car was the Vauxhall Carlton in the UK or the Opel Omega in Europe.

The Lotus version was a Lotus Carlton in the UK and a Lotus Omega in Europe.

The Lotus version ISN'T a Vauxhall/Opel. The manufacturer on the Vehicle Registration Document is "Lotus". They're usually dead giveaways though - Lotus badges, nearly black green paintwork and a six-speed box - along with a plaque saying what number Lotus Carlton/Omega it was.

 

[eddieturner2002]

I'd say the Land Rover Discovery (the V8's) had quite a 'pokey' motor, scarey ride up on the 3rd row of seats accelerating from 0mph on fullk throttle.

 

[ExigeEvan]

My -sometime in the future- V6 powered original Mini

Tope Gears stripped down Jaguar with a lotus strip and tune and Nitrous. Pitty it ended up in the sea (and no the stig didn't go in with it, you can clearly see the pneumatic attachment in the rear as used for 'car darts'.).

 

[JohnBM01]

A V6 Mini? Sounds like fun. I bet some of us horsepower-crazy Americans would probably want to challenge dumping a V8 into that thing. That is, unless Dodge wants to bring back the Omni GLHS in an effort to spank the Mini Cooper right on its bottom. If there was a turbocharged V6 Mini, imagine how much attention that might get.

 

[JohnBM01]

Would you consider the VW Golf one of the best sleepers of today?

 

[Firebird]

Wasn't the Hummer/H1 actually designated the HMMV? ([unknown letter] Multi-wheeled Millitary Vehicle)

HMMWV

High-Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle

Which was then started being called a Humvee...and then went to be called a Hummer, which around that time GM started producing the H1 available for purchase to the public (for a measley 120 grand)

AM (American Motors) General, actually, not GM. AM General has always made the Hummer H1 and it's military counterparts. AM General was originally the division of AMC that produced military and fleet vehicles. It was sold off in 1983 when Renault bought a sizeable chunk of AMC (American legislation barred the purchase of military vehicles for the US Armed Forces from companies owned by foreign governments: Renault is owned (at least in part) by the French government).

In 1992 AM General began making the civilian version, simply known as "Hummer" (no model designation at the time).

In 1999, GM purchased the rights to the Hummer brand name, and renamed the sole vehicle in the line from "Hummer" to "Hummer H1".

AM General owns all design copyrights, patents, etc. with respect to the H1, except for the Hummer H1 name itself. GM owns the name, markets the vehicle, and distributes the vehicle, but doesn't make the vehicle. AM General also makes the Hummer H2, but the design is purely GM.

GM has never actually produced a Hummer themselves. AM General has always made them for GM.

 

[TheCracker]

Would you consider the VW Golf one of the best sleepers of today?

I would consider it a 'sleepy' car - ever since the MkII its been an over-weight bloater. The original MkI was a sleeper - no one had really made a 'hot-hatch' before then. Only the R32 was a decently fast car, you could never mistake that for a more humble version!

The road going version of the Peugeot 205 T16 was a real sleeper, although very rare, it looked pretty much like the standard 205 1.6 GTi, but was 4WD and had a mid-mounted turbo-charged motor producing upwards of 320bhp all in a package weighing less than a ton.

 

[toyomatt84]

1989-1990 Dodge Caravan
1989-1990 Plymouth Voyager

2.5L Turbo engine, easily one of the most innovative Minivans to ever touch the US. Market. TurboMinivan's website


1991, 1992, 1994 Mazda Protege
In Japan, they had a 4cyl 1.8L turbo engine, but not in the US. Other than that, those three years are the only years where Mazda had All Wheel Drive in the Protege.

 

[skip0110]

What about this sleepy fellow? The 85/86 Ford LTD Lx, which was about 8/10ths Fox Mustang under the taxicab body.

 

[1X83Z]

In 1999, GM purchased the rights to the Hummer brand name, and renamed the sole vehicle in the line from "Hummer" to "Hummer H1".

They didn't change the name "officially" until 2003.

And even then they only did it based on an early-2002 prediction I made that they would.

 

[rollazn]

The Saturn Vue V6 is the best sleeper of all time.

The Vue was a mediocre compact SUV until this year, when it traded its British-built 181bhp 3.0L V6 in for Honda's 3.5L V6, which makes 250bhp - it's the same engine that powers the 4310-pound Odyssey to 60mph in 7.7 seconds. Either way, the Vue V6 2WD now does 0-60 in 6.6 seconds, making it the fifth-quickest front-wheel drive car for sale (1 Dodge SRT-4 5.8; 2 Acura TL 6.2; 3 Nissan Altima 3.5SE 6.3; 4 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP 6.5) and the third-quickest production SUV of all time (1 Porsche Cayenne Turbo 5.6; 2 GMC Typhoon 5.9).

Oh, and it's also car of the year.

We all know how much you adore the Saturn Vue V6. But, how quick is the Subaru Forester 2.5XT compared to the Saturn Vue V6. I remember us having this conversation a while back. You claim that the Saturn Vue V6 ran 0-60 in 6.6 and the Subaru Forester 2.5XT ran 0-60 in 6.8s. I was just wondering where you got those numbers. We aren't using Car and Driver as a reference since we know how much you HATE Car and Driver, especially when it comes to performances stats.

I agree with you about Car and Driver. I was looking over their review for the Forester 2.5XT, and they claim these performance stats:

ACCELERATION (Seconds)
Zero to 30 mph: 1.3
40 mph: 2.6
50 mph: 3.6
60 mph: 5.3
70 mph: 6.9
80 mph: 9.2
90 mph: 11.8
100 mph: 15.0
110 mph: 19.5
120 mph: 26.7
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.3
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 8.4
50-70 mph: 8.1
Standing 1/4-mile: 13.8 sec @ 97 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 129 mph



Even I agree that those numbers are outrageous. This is evidence that Car and Driver pull number out of their asses.

Basically my question is, how do you feel about the Subaru Forester 2.5XT? It is just as quick as the Vue V6 (might be .2s off) and it looks better also. I think Subaru Forester 2.5XT is one hell of a sleeper just like the Saturn Vue V6.

Subaru Forester 2.5XT also looks very attractive unlike the Vue, which I find appalling. To me it seems like the only thing The Vue has is performance. Let’s get real, if you want a fast performance machine, you wouldn’t go looking for a SUV would you?

I would take the Forester over Vue anytime. Plus the Forester comes with AWD standard.


By the way, Im not saying your wrong at all. Just wondering what you have to say about the Forester. Which is probably the best performance competition SUV.

or

You choose.

 

[1X83Z]

Basically my question is, how do you feel about the Subaru Forester 2.5XT? It is just as quick as the Vue V6 (might be .2s off) and it looks better also. I think Subaru Forester 2.5XT is one hell of a sleeper just like the Saturn Vue V6.

Well, I'll grant that performance is similar.

Thing is, the Forester XT bases at $25700; Vue's $24100 with slightly more spec, considerably more power, and more interior room. Fuel economy's better on the Saturn too, and it has a longer warranty. (not to mention a 30-day buyback guarantee - but who'd want to give up a Vue V6? ) Plus, options are much cheaper on the Saturn and you don't have to buy in packages, unlike with Subaru. And you get a much smoother engine, benefitting from a much smoother transmission, both Honda-designed, with the Vue's automatic a 5-speed to Forester's four.

Forester's nice, but my top choices in that class are, in order, the Vue, followed by the Hyundai Santa Fe LX and Hyundai Santa Fe GLS 3.5. I like the Ford Escape, too. I'd get the Forester if I wanted a manual, but I'd get a Typhoon before I got a Forester.

Subaru Forester 2.5XT also looks very attractive unlike the Vue, which I find appalling. To me it seems like the only thing The Vue has is performance. Let’s get real, if you want a fast performance machine, you wouldn’t go looking for a SUV would you?

Me! We're sitting on eight inches of snow with snow forecasted for tomorrow and Sunday. I like performance, I need ground clearance. I didn't do too well combining the two this year (I got a last-generation Range Rover) but I'm getting a Typhoon as soon as the snow thaws.

I would take the Forester over Vue anytime. Plus the Forester comes with AWD standard.

AWD is standard on the Forester, but, like I said, the Vue's cheaper anyway. $22400 with 2WD, $24100 with AWD. Plus, 96% of Vue V6s have AWD. Which, in my opinion, is a travesty since they're quicker with 2WD.

 

[rollazn]

Thing is, the Forester XT bases at $25700; Vue's $24100 with slightly more spec, considerably more power, and more interior room. Fuel economy's better on the Saturn too, and it has a longer warranty. (not to mention a 30-day buyback guarantee - but who'd want to give up a Vue V6? ) Plus, options are much cheaper on the Saturn and you don't have to buy in packages, unlike with Subaru. And you get a much smoother engine, benefitting from a much smoother transmission, both Honda-designed, with the Vue's automatic a 5-speed to Forester's four.

To me it seems like the Forester has more standard equipment than the Vue. I compare the two, and it seems like more of the options for the Vue comes standard to the Forester. Plus interior of the Forester looks better, even though the interior room might be smaller in the Forester. The front legroom is more on the Forester though, 43.6 compared to the 41.2 of the Vue. Also have a better towing capacity 2400lbs compare to the Vue 1000lbs.

AWD is standard on the Forester, but, like I said, the Vue's cheaper anyway. $22400 with 2WD, $24100 with AWD. Plus, 96% of Vue V6s have AWD. Which, in my opinion, is a travesty since they're quicker with 2WD.

Well you said...

Me! We're sitting on eight inches of snow with snow forecasted for tomorrow and Sunday. I like performance, I need ground clearance. I didn't do too well combining the two this year (I got a last-generation Range Rover) but I'm getting a Typhoon as soon as the snow thaws.

It seems like AWD maybe the smarter choice. If that is the case, would you rather have the Forester 2.5XT or the Vue V6 AWD. Granted that was the only two choices you can choose from.

$24,100 for the AWD Vue V6. $ 25,700 for the Forester 2.5XT.

The Forester now has the lead in performance.

Either way, both SUV are hell of a sleeper.

 

[skip0110]

Can you even get a Vue V6 with a stick? Thats much of the appeal of such a car.

 

[MattC]

A 401 ci Gremlin is the ultimate sleeper. Ditto the Super Duty 455 T/A. Lift the hood and it looks like a normal 455, floor the gas pedal and it's a different story. 0-60 cut from 7.5 to 5.4 seconds.

401-XR Gremlin

SD 455 Trans Am sans hoodbird decal

 

[rollazn]

No you cannot get a Vue V6 with a manual transmission. It only comes with a 5-speed automatic.

 

[-Fred-]

None of you are even remotely close to the true definition of a sleeper with your suggestions, so here's a friendly reminder:

And it's not a 'chop, it's real. That ain't no hairdresser's car.

 

[JohnBM01]

Damn! I know I made a thread in the past called "'Feminine' Cars," and a lot of people said the Miata was... well, "girly." Well, let this Miata be the exception!

 

[toyomatt84]

PR, I beg to differ. The "sleeper" term refers to vehicles with the appearance of cars that are slow, but have enough kick to beat modern sports cars with aggressive bodylines. The Miata stock, is by no means a slower vehicle, albeit it's not an RX-7, it's not a slouch. A Dodge Caravan from the late 80's-early 90's, looks like a slowmobile, and basically a Soccermom/grocery getter. But, when tweaked with the right set of hands, it is quite a machine on pumpgas.

 

[Taurine]

PR, I beg to differ. The "eleeper" term refers to vehicles with the appearance of cars that are slow, but have enough kick to beat modern sports cars with aggressive bodylines. The Miata stock, is by no means a slower vehicle, albeit it's not an RX-7, it's not a slouch. A Dodge Caravan from the late 80's-early 90's, looks like a slowmobile, and basically a Soccermom/grocery getter. But, when tweaked with the right set of hands, it is quite a machine on pumpgas.

Yeah but if you pulled up next to that particular Miata in your RX-7 you would think you could beat it right..?

 

[McLaren]

All those old Land yachts equipped with big V8s

lol...Try something bigger.

 

[skip0110]

None of you are even remotely close to the true definition of a sleeper with your suggestions, so here's a friendly reminder:

[images]

And it's not a 'chop, it's real. That ain't no hairdresser's car.

Yeah, and I'm sure that the factory handling balance isn't completely ****ed up.

 

[rollazn]

At the end of the day, it's still one amazing sleeper. So what if the weight balance is totally thrown off because of the heavy V8? When people think of sleepers they think of cars that can go fast in a straight line. Handling has nothing to do with it, when you think of a sleeper.

Plus, it does seem like the engine swap will cost a lot of money. And why would you want to put a heavy engine in it so that the handling and weight distribution is totally thrown off. The Miata was made to handle, not some straight line monster. I guess this one is the exception.

I see where you getting with this though Skip0110, but the owner probably don't really care about the handling all that much. Seeing it is probably a drag car instead of a track car.

 

[skip0110]

That sort of makes sense, rollazn. Although I take issue with the fact that handling does not make a sleeper. If it's something that ought not to handle --think B-body--and someone makes it handle, then thats a sleeper, I think. A sleeper is a car doing something it should not.

Somehow, though, I think that Miata was created for "shock factor" alone. Looking at the stance, I can tell it's not set up for drag, and I don't think a Miata is big enough to ever get enough weight transfer to get a decent launch. It still is a decent sleeper, because you never expect to pop the hood of a Miata and see a LS1. I'm just saying that there are a lot better light RWD platforms that can swallow a small block chevy, with a lot more room for working on the engine.

 

[stumpydino]

lol, that is one sweet miata

 

[mr_pushrod]

The MX-5 got sack! Wonder how big the crowbar and tub of vaseline was to get that lump in there, lol.

 

[slimer90210]

Dodge Omni GLHS

A fairly quick car out of the box, and it looked totally weak. My Friend Mike has one, he blew the engine out of it trying to tune it for more power... he then swaped in the 3.0L V6 out of his mom's old dodge caravan... that took alot of shoehorning and Vasaline....

Buick Grand National. 'nuff said.

Quick but heavy, it is a Buick after all...
My friend Paul enjoyed telling people his GNX was just a V6 Regal before he started building it up. He has swapped in a Chevy SB 383 with a Banks twin turbo system, Borg Warner 6-speed, Strange rear end, hotchkis suspension, etc... It still looks like a stock GNX so people that don't know their pre 1990 American cars still take it for just a Regal.

1989-1990 Dodge Caravan
1989-1990 Plymouth Voyager

2.5L Turbo engine, easily one of the most innovative Minivans to ever touch the US. Market. TurboMinivan's website

My mom bought a turbo minivan. When she got a new Town & Country I bought the turbo and modified it much the way they tell you to on the website and it was FAST!! The most fun I have ever had in a car I had with that van at open strip night at the local drag strip..... The looks on those mustang and camaro owner's faces after they get beat by a mommy van is pricless. I even have the soccer mom sticker in the back window....

I would add...
The mid-late 80's 3.0L Duster to the list. It does look sportier then the van and the Omni but most people do over look it. My friend Jason has one with the stock turbo off my turbo minivan (I upgraded to a slightly bigger one), some intake and head work, and some major engine internal work. It is scary fast and handles surprizingly well.

The Ford F-350 with the 7.3 L Diesel. The farmer next door has one and it is powerful in stock trim. I have seen Banks and Bully Dog equiped units that easily take Mustang GTs and Corvettes in the 1/4 and its a BIG truck....

The Chevy Nomads. They were wagons with the same power and performance as the coupes.

The Ford Crown Vic and Chevy Caprice Police Specials.

 

[xcsti]

Yeah, and I'm sure that the factory handling balance isn't completely ****ed up.

Hey that's an all aluminum engine, so maybe the weight distribution isn't that bad. Maybe a smaller engine, like an audi V8 or the 6 out of the M3 would work better. The VW W8 would be nice distribution wise (they could pull it way back), but that engine is way too wide and it isn't that refined.